Female Winslet

This decision has tipped me over into wanting one. 🙂 Alas, I don’t imagine I’ll have much chance of getting one, especially with how many people are so happy and excited about this decision.

If anyone wants to go up by helicopter and see it from the air that way, just ping me in world and I’ll be happy to fly you and your friends around the continent. 🙂 I could probably even do the same by boat as long as I can find a spot to rez. I have a helicopter (Shergood H160) that seats 9 and a boat (Bandit SRV210C) that seats 8 and even allows for wake boarding. So lots of room for fellow travelers. Heck, I’ve even got an AD25H Littlebee that is equipped for parasailing so we could go tour the new area that way too. 🙂

I hear tell of welcoming committees going from house to house to welcome new residents. I hear residents are forming community groups ranging from general “all resident groups” to groups for specific purposes like a police group. I see residents asking for things that bring people in rather than drive them away. Things like better connections to the neighboring continents. GTFO hubs. Marinas. Rez zones. This is a huge win by Linden Labs so far. But it’s also a big win by the residents too. Don’t forget to give yourselves credit too. I remember posting right after the holidays and asking about what was being done to build community in SL regions. Every single person who responded said community building could not be done in SL. Well, the people moving into this new space sure are proving them wrong. Yes, we can have community. We are having it now. So the next trick is to keep it up. That will be hard. But here are my suggestions: Don’t just build houses, build things that draw people in and facilitate travel from place to place. Airports. That GTFO hub. A marina. Improved connectivity. And, of course, rez zones. Maybe even put a sail racing start line or two in the water. The specific details are less important than providing reason for people to go there. Related to that, I would add things geared toward being used by the community itself. I’m thinking public parks. Maybe some areas set up just for sheer beauty. As a shameless plug . . . One thing I remember saying I’d like to do was setup a community somewhere to hold events ranging from art exhibitions to dances to classes to weddings all at no charge to the users. Seems like this could be the perfect place for it, but is there room? But all and all, I wanna tag @Patch Linden and @Constantine Linden and @Abnor Mole and all others involved so they see they got some serious props. I wanna thank the SL users for making me super happy by proving that SL can and does have community. And I can’t wait to see whats next. Some serious thought has gone into his so far and I imagine we have not yet seen it all.

Applause to Linden Labs!!! Here is hoping that this new continent can be where we figure out how to get the balance right and that something similar can role out to the mainland as a whole.

I and some friends flew over to check out the continent and we basically circumnavigated it. Pretty neat! Loved the light houses and the little protected islands! Alas, we had the usual problems. We flew above ban lines, but ran into the usual issues with orbs. And sim crossings meant constantly having to land and pick someone up who got booted. One thing that seemed nice was that the larger river passages were large enough to stay on them and there was, for the most part, enough space to circumnavigate the island at least by helicopter. Don’t think a sailboat could make it through given limitations posed by wind direction. Personally, I am going to keep my non-LH land, but those moving into the new Linden Home neighborhood look like they are moving into a pretty nifty space. I hope it stays that way for a while and that LL is willing to do the management needed to keep it that way.

Yes. . . . I've met a few people from SL in RL. I've met them at conventions. I've met them at crowded hotel lobbies. That sort of thing. It's partly just good common sense and partly exactly what you are saying above about how you never really know until you experience their RL behavior! Some of my built in caution from RL moves into SL in ways where it just isn't needed. Situations like "Man I don't know invites me to go boating with him alone." In RL, I just say no thank you. If not that, for some reason , then I check him out thoroughly with people I know before even considering it. In SL male avatar approaches me claiming to be a close friend of one of my good friends, so I start doing this routine and then an hour later I remember that if there are any problems, I can just teleport out, so I can take a little more risk than I'd take in RL. True story. Actually happened. Sigh. Perhaps the next gentleman who complains about women complaining about needing to be safe from men could share some of the ways he protects himself against assault/stalking/harassment by women.

As has been discussed ad nauseum, ban lines interfere with efforts to travel outside of the property for a variety of reasons--feel free to read some of the recent discussions. They also don't work so well from the privacy protecting perspective either because they reach only 50m above ground level (I actually measured yesterday). Having rez turned on seems to work perfectly well for many, many, many of us. I do it with a 3 hour autoreturn and I know people who use an even longer autoreturn than that. I have made an exception with the mini-parcels where I've rezzed my own obelisks. Those have an autoreturn of only 1 minute. That is because some others who have also participated in rezzing these obelisks have encountered hate messages from the "me me me" people, so I know there is an elevated risk of griefing there. So . . . I guess this goes to show that adjustments can even be made to deal with the risk of griefing. Even though griefing simply is not the issue it once was. This is true--and this is where I think some of the disconnect lies. Mainland is shared, much the way a city in RL is shared. That means you don't, can't, and shouldn't have the same level of isolation and privacy as if you lived off in some private estate region unconnected to anything. Just the same way that city dwellers don't, can't, and shouldn't have the same level of isolation and privacy as someone living out by themselves in the country side. It's just the way it is. It also means that your actions on your parcel affect your neighbors in much the way is true in city's as well. This is why we have things like zoning laws in RL that prohibit opening a fertilizer factory in the middle of a residential neighborhood. And, while the analogy is crude, we have restrictions on the mainland kinda like zoning restrictions that don't exist on private islands. Off the top of my head, examples could be ban line height (which can be raised on private islands) and limits on terraforming. I can't react to a part of a post, but I just wanted to underscore and agree with this. I agree with this too. With that said, I think that SL does a better job of protecting real life information and such than most platforms. Facebook it isn't. But nothing is a replacement for good security awareness by the individual, especially if the individual is a woman. We shouldn't have to do that sort of thing. But in the real world, we have to deal with the reality that not good people are out there, that they especially tend to be problematic for women, and that SL hides them from us as well as it hides us from them. Again with the ignoring what was said to respond to something that no one ever said, i.e. a strawman. No one said only women deserve security and safety. Perhaps you have not noticed, but the only people in this thread who have described being stalked in SL or RL are women. Ever wonder why?

One of the difficulties in this conversation is the persistence of one side insisting that the other side has said something they never said and then getting mad about that instead of addressing what was actually said. For example, I never said stalking doesn't happen in SL. In fact, I've previously expressed sympathy for your situation in this very thread. But I also recognize that being stalked in SL is not the same as in RL. In RL I don't have all the numerous ways of keeping someone away from me that I have in SL. In the ultimate case, I also don't have the ability to turn off my RL and make it disappear. Being stalked in SL is no fun. It's also not nearly the same thing as being stalked in RL.

One point not being paid much attention to in this thread is that orbs send people *home*. That's not necessary to protect privacy in any universe. It's just a disruption to the traveler. If the issue is truly about keeping people off your land, then it's hard to see why simply moving people off your land would not be adequate. When I encounter the 0 second orb, I file an abuse report. When I file the abuse report, I provide LL with a citation to their own policy on orbs because I know there have been some Lindens who tell me there is no policy. Then I show them that policy and they go "Oh, I didn't know it was there." After a few days, I typically find that the 0 second orb is either gone or no longer set to zero second warning. Contrary to what some of the "me me me" people have said in this thread, zero notice plainly is not the adequate notice in the policy. Why? Because of the mathematical concept of 0, as in nothing. If no warning at all were adequate, there'd be no need for a policy calling for warning. What non-zero number is adequate is a point on which clarification is needed. I'm working on a draft policy proposal. It will seek to provide a warning amount that is sufficient for all parcels and all vehicle types. Subject to the terms and conditions of that usage. Speaking as someone who has considered, pursued, and successfully obtained a career in the legal industry, this problem has been addressed in real life because the real life rule has been that you own the land all the way up to heaven and all the way down to hell (as it was colorfully put in medieval laws that descended into present day). This would not have allowed the aviation industry to exist because it would have made every overflight an incident of trespassing. So the law was changed. See prior discussion about it in this thread and if we really want to, we can have a far more detailed discussion of the ins and outs involved (technically, it's an easement, for example, but that's kinda beside the point). I think I have a more realistic solution. Those who design security orbs need to not allow less than a certain amount of warning time. Zero warning should be made impossible. This should be easy enough to do. The passenger or pilot of an SL aircraft at any altitude would have to really work hard to do this while flying over. They tend to move fast. That's the point. Even with the ability to do something like right click and cam in as in Firestorm, it is difficult or impossible. If they were, for example, in a helicopter, and they decided to hover over your land and snoop, that would be a different scenario. And one that no one is saying should be allowed. I have been stalked multiple times in RL, each of them for lengthy periods of time. So I daresay I know what it is like to deal with. And it, among other things that have happened to me, do indeed affect me going forward. But I also recognize that has nothing to do with SL and even less to do with the subject at hand, which is boating, flying, and driving. Not people parking on our land, staying there, and surveilling us, taking our photos, following us, leaving "gifts," cyberstalking us, sending us messages, and other such things that I've experienced with some of my RL stalkers.

If I follow your rationale about the security orbs, I believe my response should be that I get to do whatever I want on my land and my neighbors cannot and should not force me to buy anything. As it happens, that's not far from how I feel. If you want your parcel boarders respected, I'm happy to do that. But don't interfere with me respecting them.

With a price like that, plus an incorrect SLurl, I guess the seller doesn't really want to sell. That doesn't even pass the straight face test, not even in that region. But it is a great example of the ridiculous pricing that keeps so much of the mainland as vacant, empty land. Too bad.

The SL Newser wrote about the mainland obelisks (and, by extension the ban line/orb problem) today. https://slnewser.blogspot.com/2019/04/good-neighbor-commandments-obelisks-on.html Didn't know the setting was there! Thanks! I will give it a shot! I find that doing this doesn't work out well. I build the platform and end up with all the stuff on the ground--and even the ground itself, since most of mine is not just flat ground--in the way. Also, my parcels aren't nice neat squares. This particular one is a triangle. I have far more complex shapes as well with mountains, water, stuff on the ground, voids in the middle of my parcel where a neighbor owns theirs, and so on.

Here's something that even the benevolent, giving "me me me" people might be able to agree is a problem posed by orbs and such. I just had an orb make it very difficult to keep my little structure out of the neighbor's property. What's that, you say? Here it is: What is this? I am rebuilding the dock at one of my water properties. I bought a modular dock system and I needed to rez all the pieces so I could see what they were and plan the new dock. What I do when I need to do something like that is I build a simple sky platform made of simple rectangular prims and I used that area for rezzing items and planning out the construction. I can build the dock (or whatever else) in the sky and avoid afflicting my neighbor (and me!) with an eyesore construction site while I'm in the process. The sky platform itself is built at an altitude of around 2000 meters so that it doesn't affect anyone's view from the ground level. Well, when I do this, I try to keep it out of my neighbor's boundaries or any protected space. But I'm at 2000 meters. The parcel boundaries do not show when you are that high. And the display on the mini-map isn't exactly precise (in fact it really doesn't show me much of anything useful for that purpose). So I do it by walking around and looking at the top of my screen for the parcel name changes. That tells me I've reached the boundary line and tells me where to adjust the platform boundary. Well, I have a new neighbor who decided to install a nearly no warning security orb. So you can guess what happened when I checked to make sure the parts of this platform were staying outside of their land. Yes, I kept getting hit by the orb wanting me to send me back home. It made keeping my little construction platform out of their land @#$!$#@$ difficult.

Well, feel free to create your own obelisk saying that. 🙂 One thing though, that last bit kind of makes a bit of the personal politics of some of our kind, benevolent, unselfish people who insist on doing whatever they like no matter how it affects others rather obvious. I mean, it was obvious before, but I have intentionally not said anything . . . Still, I’m not sure something that so echoes “Make America Great Again” is the best approach to rallying support. But, hey, go for it if it makes you happy!

Isn't it great?

I am pleased to report that I have joined the movement about rezzing the obelisks! I have put some on my land and I have acquired some additional small advertising parcels where I have razzed them too. I have also created a small, transparent prim that tells how to get an obelisk if you want one. Since someone else seems to be focused on Jeogeot, I put mine on Sansara. I understand that there have already been some hateful instant messages and some threats made by some of the benevolent people who feel that they should be able to do anything and everything with their land no matter how it affects everyone else, so I departed from my usual rule on auto return. Instead of a three hour auto return, I made these one minute. That way they are still friendly places where somebody can read as a vehicle that they lost in someone ban line or a sim crossing, but less inviting to someone who might decide to make trouble as a grief. Hopefully I made them look nice. 🙂 I tried to make them so they practice what they preach. Here are a couple of photos of mine. On a road in Sansara: And on one of my parcels: Yes, okay, I admit it. It's a cat thing to climb up on top of it.

It’s the furries, isn’t it? We’re just so cute that you’d hate to be without us, right? 🙂

Its not arthritis in my case, but I too have limited use of my hands because of a series of injuries (and, more recently, hand surgeries). I like the one minute guideline on orbs. It seems like it’s a rule that works for all types of vehicles, including sailboats that have to worry about wind direction, and all parcel sizes, and for those of us with physical issues of various types. I know it’s more than is probably needed for, say, a 1024m parcel most of the time. But, like Ethan points out, it doesn’t do any damage, but it is something that seems like it would work for everbody. If I had my way, I’d get rid of orbs entirely. But one minute seems like a kind of reasonable compromise. In real life, there are laws about this kind of thing. In Second Life, it’s a fair question whether those laws would apply (i.e., requiring LL to make accommodation via TOS) but it should be no question that basic human decency requires a bit of kindness to people with a disability.

I managed to investigate and track them down. They are made by a mole and the texture is original. Look at the mole's profile and it tells where to get one. You can also IM me in world and I'll send you one if you want it. 🙂

This is great! And what a creative way to spread the message of how not to be a jerk! Anyone know where to get these? I'd love to put some up myself and might even start buying up some tiny spots like this person is doing. Setting aside the ridiculous response to the idea of a whole minute, which is a tiny amount of time, how in the world does someone setting their security orb have anything to do with your rights as a landowner? Isn't your whole point that it's yours and you get to do whatever you want and nobody else has any business complaining and all that other "me me me me me me" stuff? Seems to me that your own position means that setting up these obelisks is okay and anyone has every right to set a one minute timer (or longer) if they want to. Your own position means you have absolutely no business complaining. I'm going to try and get my hands on some of these and put them out on my land. I expect that there will be no complaints from any of these people complaining about how they should get to do whatever they want with their land.

Very intriguing and all sounds very positive. Yay!

Sticking to wide open protected seas, as your map shows you did, is a huge help for avoiding ban lines and orbs indeed. I, on the other hand, tried to do the same via helicopter the other day. I got shot down by a zero warning orb on the very next sim after I started. I'm going to guess that he didn't follow exactly above the highway every single moment. He probably strayed from side to side a bit. Did anyone shoot him down for it? 🙂 As far as I know, that's a unique to SL thing. In any case, if you want to make the analogy to real life, then I think you really have to deal with how real life actually is and not just parts of it. As pointed out before, there is precedent with how real life handled the issue of aviation over people's land. LL has already done something similar by lowering the ban lines. If we want to follow the RL method, then this is an obvious solution. If we want to decide that SL and RL are not at all comparable, then maybe not.

Again, you seem to be missing the point. Nobody is disputing anything you said. But the question was asked: why is the 300 person ban list provided with all parcels not sufficient to address the issue? It seems highly unlikely that any normal person is getting enough visitors for that to not be enough. But no one seems willing to answer the question. Perhaps you'd like to explain why the 300 person ban list isn't enough? "I get to decide if I want to setup ban lines even if it's only one person" is a true statement, but it doesn't answer the question of why that's necessary when you have a three hundred person ban list that can more than accommodate that one person. "Because I decide I want to do that instead of using the ban list" may also be a true statement. But it doesn't answer the question either. These types of answers suggest that the tools may be adequate, but certain people simply do not want to use them. The point of the question is not to debate whether anyone has the right to anything. The point is to examine the adequacy of various options for dealing with people's issues. Some of us in this discussion are interested in actually trying to solve problems. Doing that requires examining the tools and options available and why they are adequate or inadequate. So can anyone point at why the 300 entry ban list that comes with all parcels is not adequate?

A few of us have been discussing approaching LL with ideas like this. Ban lines got lowered during my several year break from SL. But I am told that a big part of why they got lowered was the interference they posed for things like flying. People recognized that the only advantage that mainland offers over private sims was that there’s a lot of space. So if they couldn’t use the space, why bother using mainland instead of renting private sim space? So people abandoned mainland and LL realized it had to do something to address the ban line problem. So they lowered their effectiveness. I wasn’t active in SL at the time, but this story makes sense to me. I was a very active aviator but I gave it up because of frustration with ban lines making it impossible to fly. And I avoided mainland because of all the ban lines (and the sheer ugliness of it—mainland looks a lot better these days). So I can readily see how that could happen. And I see it happening again now because people have replaced the ban lines with orbs that still make it difficult to use the extra space mainland offers. That’s why places like Blake Sea are such a big deal and why little sailing happens in places like Sansara. Places like Sea of Fables and Mare Secundus are nice spots to sail. But they are connected to everywhere else by narrow channels that are made impassable by bam lines and orbs. Unlike cars, boats drift on the water so they don’t turn or stop instantly or precisely. Sailboats, in particular, move according to how the wind blows them, so if you get an orb wanting you out in ten seconds, then your ability to do it depends on whether the wind allows for that. And your ability to turn to avoid banlines is also correspondingly limited. Well, I asked you to show me. I gave you a tour of my snow leopard preserve (§okay, you had to leave before it was finished) so it seems like fair is fair. 🙂 Road travel seems like the easiest way to stay within the parcel boundaries or perhaps using some aircraft or boats that behave nothing like boats or aircraft by being able to stop/turn instantly and doing it in a setting where you can actually see the right of way edges. The right of way is more readily visible than on air or water and cars can stop or turn a lot faster because they do so using the ground instead of the air. But I started in SL in July 2006. And I have never seen anyone who could do this without hitting some ban line or orb within a few minutes. So if you can, I’ll be majorly impressed.

The point of the post you were responding to had absolutely nothing to do with how people “should” or “should not” be using their parcels. It had to do with the unlikelihood of people having a significant number of intruders given how large the grid is and how deserted the great majority of land is. But I do applaud you for contributing to the grid. I try to do likewise. Although I have never used ban lines or orbs ever.