Theresa Tennyson

At least in The Sims, it's impossible to stack clothing because the slots are locked in. You set up outfits in a separate environment and when you're running real-time you change them instantly with a Wonder Woman spin. The other side of simplicity is being limited. To have a truly intuitive and universal UI system for wearing SL mesh clothing and bodies, the UI and necessary data would have needed to be in place before the clothing/bodies were introduced. And there's no guarantee the system would have been the best or most future-proof way of doing things. Right now The Sims is on their fourth non-compatible generation and even the fourth generation is getting long in the tooth. As far as time goes, Second Life would be the equivalent of The Sims 1 Expansion Pack 35 or so - it's remarkable that it still works at all.

"I remember that it was a bottle-blond style and the picture was taken at a Dutch angle..." And it's interesting how, in an environment that is set up to use this organization, several of those pictures are useless as teats on a boar hog for knowing how the entire hairstyle will look.

If you're changing the UI, don't remove "wear." If there's a coherent use of attachment points it's useful to detach the old pants and attach the new ones in a single action. So - with "wear," set options for things like "Wear as Shirt [attaches to 'right pec']," "Wear as Pants/Skirt [attaches to 'right hip']," etc. Works just fine for no-mod items too, and items remember the last place they were attached. If the viewer can read attachment points for a not-currently-worn item you could even give them new icons.

Yeah - why would anyone want to listen to someone spitting out things based on information they've collected that they don't know is accurate and don't understand?

It's interesting how everything that you would do yourself appears to be difficult but everything that somebody else would do is easy.

Then make OpenSim a wonderland of easy inventory organization.

You could do it yourself and get people to pay for your wonderful viewer.

Then go ahead and do it. https://github.com/secondlife/viewer

So what? Estate owners pay Linden Lab too, and they're more financially reliable than someone who gets a "free" mainland parcel and puts up a store selling 12-year-old affiliate vendor clothes or a bot-farm "club" and who then realizes the next month that their "business plan" needs work so they bail out.

You can set up Firestorm to not use the bridge. A lot of the functions have been added to the basic viewer code a long time ago.

Blue: Actually, I think Legacy is the only current female mesh body that still uses separate feet and hands. Red: All these items are unnecessary for taking photos. The AO and scripted RLV collar probably aren't either. Create an outfit made up of only happy funtimes items, and then one made up of only photographic items. Swap them in and out as necessary.

Again, what are you basing this on?

I can see how that would be a problem - if that was the standard behavior of the viewer. However, using both the Linden viewer and the current Firestorm beta, that's just not what I see. I use them basically at default settings, with shadows on. No non default shadow probes. "Midday" is bright, even in an enclosed space with no lights on the ground. From what I've seen, the big thing that needs to happen for things to be consistent and usable is the auto-exposure system that automatically moderates light levels just like the pupil and iris of your eyes do. My guess is that auto-exposure is off/flaking out for "dark room at noon" people, but haven't found a way to turn it off and I've been looking for it.

As a matter of fact, I always do use the SL viewer. But nobody is "forcing" anyone to use it. New users? Firestorm's got one of the biggest new-user gateways out there. "The EEP presets are broken?" A true new user probably won't even know that they're there, and if they do find them, someone who's really new won't think that CalWL looking flaky is more of an issue than Pirate's Dream or Weird-O looking flaky.

I used to work in architecture. There's a concept called "substantial completion." That's when a building is considered to be basically complete and ready for the owner to take over, but there will still be a few issues that can and should be fixed. From what I see, the LL PBR viewer is "substantially complete." I use it every day. There are some minor issues; some of them don't have anything to do with PBR rendering. I'm not seeing anything that isn't fixable though. For some reason my news aggregator thinks I want to read articles from the British newspaper The Daily Telegraph. The Daily Telegraph is basically Fox News wearing a bowler hat. One of the many things they find wrong with the world today, along with Meghan Markle and people saying nasty things about fox hunting, are electric cars. If there's any sort of issue with an electric car they'll run a screechy article about them and how disastrous they are. Yes, the current generation of electric cars have issues, and I neither own one nor plan on buying one soon. But I can see many very real advantages to them, and the issues they have fixable and are being worked on from a lot of different directions. And the issues don't change the natural advantages they have.

Who might those "some" be? (And I'll be looking for quotes.)

The enlarged scale is mostly used for buildings that people walk around in. For an outside space like a park there would be no point in making it larger; in fact you could probably get away with making it a bit smaller. Realistic walking distances in a real world space can feel slow sometimes in SL, and most people can't see as far in SL as they can in RL.

Judging from my past experiences, I'm guessing that issues will get patched, people will adapt and eventually the general public will think of PBR as something that's been around forever. Even most of the people complaining in this thread. (Some might have burned through another avatar by then though.)

I'm looking at a whole wall full of various PBR samples. Things look the way they're supposed to no matter which legacy environment I'm using, taking into account the overall color/brightness of the lighting. There's nothing magical that needs to be done to make PBR "work." http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Sverdlovsk/55/238/104

"Nam's Optimal Skin" "Annan Adored Realistic Ambient" "CalWL" Aren't you asking for Linden Lab to start messing with somebody else's work, not to mention the fact that Library assets are also used by non-PBR viewers? Meanwhile, I've tested a few of the "non-name-brand" environments in the Library that were actually LL-provided and they seem to be pretty plausible with the EEP viewer. (I'm using the latest EEP update official viewer release candidate - skies look much better than the original EEP release.)

How is that different from the pre-PBR world? Varnished sweaters come from somewhere...

The only EEP settings that are under the developers' control are in the library. What would happen to people using non-PBR viewers when those change?

The candle reference wasn't directed specifically at you; it's a reference to the way a lot of people seem to think around here though, and have for many years. But to you personally, because you seem to be the most willing to reason - what specifically would you like done to "fix" PBR? Because from my standpoint, a lot has been "fixed" already. I tried early project viewers and was basically horrified, but when the official viewer dropped I was all, "Hey! This is actually pretty cool!" And I generally do not do that with new graphics developments. Yes, the water doesn't look great under default environments; apparently shine looks blue but I haven't really noticed it. Those aren't forever issues any more than the two-tone hair I had when materials were introduced and which kept me from using that viewer for several releases. And a lot of the issues you're bringing up are not in the viewer developers' control, and quite a few of them are dealing with work-arounds for things that were essentially broken - or considered broken - in the old lighting, and they're not even "official" settings. How much should you have to honor something like that? There's also this emphasis on PBR being "released too early." That's not really how Second Life works. When was mesh "released"? People using Phoenix were seeing mesh as weird mutant prims for months after the official drop. People using Viewer 1.23 were seeing them for years. I remember 1920's Berlin having dire warnings against wearing mesh, and then a year or so later the builder was a big mesh fan.

STILL not what I said. My post was in reply to the idea that "you need to use the same PBR settings as the maker or blah-blah-blah." What you posted was a 1) non-PBR item under 2) a legacy environment customized for non-PBR conditions. The more I think of it, electric lighting really was a mistake. Candles work, right? And you can make them RIGHT AT HOME instead of dealing with a bunch of outsiders. And someone working from home can make candles that are JUST AS GOOD AS ANYONE ELSE'S, and maybe become a TOP-SELLING CANDLE MAKER. You can even make them smell like potpourri and stuff... . . . Did any of that sound familiar?

I didn't say that lighting isn't important, I said that the differences between lighting setups within the PBR system aren't going to be make-or-break things. The lamp from Target is going to act a lot like the lamp from Macy's because of how lamps work. Apparently, though, why should we buy electric lamps at all when we can just use candles? This is all sounding a lot like the old thread I referenced with the people saying, "Why use mesh at all?" from 2013. So, looking back - did they have a point?