simplemint

Perhaps LL doesn't want SL to be known as "one of the more expensive free games" (even though it is), and that's why they don't communicate it. I mean, fair enough if SL can only be run with a more powerful computer and a computer like mine isn't going to cut it. That just means that SL won't have much of a chance of retaining users on computers like mine, who don't have the money to spend on new computers for gaming only. One problem is that a lot of people who already have PCs with powerful graphic cards may already be gamers - and that's why they have such a system - but I think there's a lot about SL which may turn off people who come from a strong gaming background. So retention for this group is difficult as well. They'd expect that their powerful PC would lead them to have no lag at all... which is a problem when, as you mention, even a powerful computer doesn't erase lag. It's hard for me to express what community I was missing from SL, but I can tell you that just having people showing me around wouldn't have scratched that itch for community. It can be useful to get noobs to meet other noobs so they can learn and explore together, instead of having a noob with an oldbie who might not be able to explain clearly, or who might have so much knowledge/stuff to show off that the noob gets overwhelmed. One of the issues I found was that many oldbies weren't able to clearly explain things, or got frustrated when noobs expressed that they weren't satisfied with SL/couldn't understand. And maybe that wouldn't happen so much with noob teachers. But at the same time, the noobs would have to be compatible socially with some similar interests, similar tastes, and so forth for the relationship to stick beyond the noob phase. What happens after the noob phase when the noobs think they've learnt all they can from one another, but the noob players still feel like they aren't attached to SL? Or if the noob feels that their noob teacher is rude, unpleasant, and perhaps a representation of the SL userbase? I understand there are concerns with people gaming the system but giving at least a little bit of Linden or directing noobs to places where they can earn it (like a fishing game) could be decent retention tactics.

I'm one of those people that SL couldn't retain, at least when it comes to the in-world experience. I still lurk on the forums because I'm interested in checking in on what's happening in-world. I still check the blogs and YouTube videos of the SL creators I enjoy. But I haven't logged into SL since late 2021 and I don't anticipate I will be doing it again anytime soon. I think there's lots of great things about SL - which is why I still keep up with it - but it's not a place where I get a great deal of enjoyment anymore. What about the time beyond the first 10 minutes, when a newbie decides they like SL enough to check it out but they're not fully invested? That was the case with me. I was in and out of SL for about two years. Clearly I'm still invested enough to be typing out this post, but I wasn't invested enough to keep on going for long periods of time. The only expectations I had of SL was what I'd seen in YouTube videos from people like Meela Vanderbuilt and Carmen King. They made (and still make) SL look like a really cool place to be. I also expected that it'd be a fun hobby that I could enjoy and relax in. I soon realized that I couldn't have that cool experience I'd seen, and it wasn't a fun hobby, for a number of reasons. Maybe this is very personal to me, but maybe others who have disconnected from SL feel similarly. TL;DR: The question shouldn't be about what a new user needs to do differently to be interested in SL (like being less about instant gratification, or working harder). The question should be about what SL can do to reach out to the user. My issues were: There was too much lag and I didn't want to have to invest in a new device just to play SL. I think expectations about device suitability can be made more clear from the beginning. Their newbie experience won't be as nice-looking as Meela Vanderbuilt's, or any other screenshot or video of SL they've seen. And it might never be. If a device isn't suitable, working on improving lag as much as is possible in-world so that someone's experience isn't crappy would be nice. To have fun, I had to spend more money than I would have preferred. I overall found SL to be quite expensive and didn't care for the micro-transaction model. Again, making it clear that SL is a free-to-play virtual world/game/whatever you want to call it, and that all the cool things you see in SL pictures are not free may help to address expectations. Everything costs. For people who have experience with games, many free-to-play games offer the possibility for someone to have fun without having to make a big effort to seek out every single freebie out there. These people don't expect to have to learn how to navigate a marketplace, find a place like the Free Dove, or scour the grid just to have fun for peanuts. Making it easier to find freebie/cheap items, or at least teaching them how to get there, can help. The opaqueness of SL in this (and many areas) really threw me off as a newbie. Similarly, pointing newbies to ways where they can make money in-world can help them find something to do, and at least feel like spending money on cool stuff in SL isn't completely unattainable. Is fishing, dancing, or any other SL job the most efficient way of making Linden, no, but at least it's something. Not feeling a sense of community in SL and therefore, not feeling particularly connected to the in-world experience One way to retain people is to make them feel connected to your thing. You want to give them a reason to keep on checking your thing out. I do still feel connected to my favourite SL creators and I guess I'm just nosy which is why I'm here, but I don't feel any strong connection to the in-world SL. There wasn't any one activity that really gripped me, no social groups I enjoyed hanging out with, and so forth. Helping to guide newbies towards groups that can match their interest, or giving them tools needed to find those people, may be able to help. I never was able to figure out where anyone under the age of 25 and with my interests was hanging out, for example. But I didn't have to go very far to find that same demographic in other hobby communities. For more introverted people who don't really care about the socializing aspect, "groups" can be replaced with "activities". Something as simple as driving in SL can be tough to figure out for someone who's new. It took me so long to even figure out how to get to mainland and what 'the grid' was. I had to do a lot of Googling outside of SL to figure it out, and I don't think a newbie should have to do that. It will require effort on a person's part to find people or find activities, but it shouldn't be an overwhelming and strenuous one. And I do think that it feels that way for newbies, or even people who spent longer in-world like I did. I'm crocheting a cardigan right now and that felt easier than figuring out how to drive in-world! More generally, helping newbies figure out how to deal with griefers and other mean people could also help. It's not the most encouraging thing to be relatively new to something, then not know what tools are available in SL to deal with these things. I ran into more 'nasties' in SL than I typically do in other hobbies, even in other online spaces. In-world SL just... wasn't a friendly place for me.

I don't play SL anymore, though I still keep up with the forums and SL YouTubers to see what's going on. My computer is within the minimum specs for SL but it performs poorly. I didn't want to deal with the lag and overheating anymore. I've logged over 400 hours in Animal Crossing since its release and have also logged over 50 hours in a number of other games. All of it on the Nintendo Switch. It was a costly purchase up front, but more I play and the longer I have the console, the more the it becomes worth it. I pay once and can play the game for as long as my system holds up and my interest is there. SL on the other hand, is a continuous investment if I want to continue maintaining a certain 'standard' of play - for land, maybe a membership, updates to my avatar/home, etc.

The best example I can think of is Twitch (the live-streaming platform). Second Life is a prohibited game. If a streamer broadcasts or uploads content showing Second Life, then they can be reported - they can face a strike or a temporary account suspension. The reasoning doesn't have anything to with Second Life's payment platforms, so it's not about conditions similar to OP's situation. It's based on the content of Second Life itself, namely the presence of content contrary to Twitch's community guidelines in Second Life and the inability for the streamer to completely prevent such content from appearing.

It's a Macbook Air from 2013 - 1.3GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 (Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz) with 3MB shared L3 cache, Intel HD Graphics 5000 (basically, whatever's included in the base model). It's getting up there in years, but I suspect Macbooks in general just don't run well with SL anyways.

My computer simply isn't powerful enough to run SL and I have no interest in purchasing a new computer just to play SL. So, my wish would be for SL to be able to run well on what I already have! One of the reasons why I haven't been in-world for months is because I got fed up of how terribly my computer was handling SL. I check on the forums regularly to catch up with what's going on though.

Outside of SL YouTubers, never. Even on gaming websites, SL is pretty much never mentioned. Honestly, it would be considered too old, too dated by most people who frequent those types of sites.

Hopefully I can provide one perspective of why some consumers may miss gacha and may look forward to a conveyor belt system. I didn't play gacha machines myself - too risky for my own taste - but I did purchase from gacha resellers. I was mostly interested in pets and clothing items. It was a way to get items for cheaper than an equivalent item sold at retail price, I liked being able to support the resellers, and I liked the 'hunt' aspect of it. I liked visiting different gacha resale sims to sort through what was available like a yard sale and I liked scrolling through the Marketplace to see what items would pop up. Gacha resellers will still be around of course, but over time their stock will eventually dwindle to be nothing as a result of this change. I like the idea of the conveyor belt system because it brings back some degree of randomness to purchasing over a normal vendor. I like that the next item to show up would be clear, unlike a gacha machine. To be completely honest, I could see myself purchasing from one so long as the item is one that I like - ideally with a demo for any clothing items. I'm also the kind of person who likes playing Lucky Letters and Midnight Manias and watching blind box opening videos online. However, I can also see the concern here about the predatory nature of these machines. If they are to stay around, in an ideal world, I'd like to see controls being put on machines to lessen concerns as much as possible - for example, the option for items to rotate after a certain period of time if no purchase is made. I purchase far more often from regular retailers than I did from gacha resellers so normal retail options definitely work! I think they're the most reliable system for gacha resellers to transition to. There are a few gacha-only creators I adore who I'd love to see transition their shops into something new. Fingers crossed they will. But I also am interested in seeing the different ways that creators mix up normal retail options, whether that's in a conveyor belt system or in more conventionally accepted systems like Lucky Letter, Midnight Mania, 50L/50 minutes, and more.

Thinking as a consumer: Potential traffic problems. Assuming the conveyor belt is popular enough, it may need to be set somewhere that many avatars could crowd around without blocking other products - similarly to how some stores organize their lucky letter and Midnight Mania boards. Potential drama? Say, one person gets mad that another 'steals their item'. I suppose the belts could be set up in such a way that multiple people can buy the item within a set time period, or that the last person who purchases an item has the machine locked to them for x seconds similarly to how they do it in Skill Gaming regions. Determining the optimal time for changing over an item. What if an item stays locked on the board for hours or even days? Should there be a mechanism put in place to automatically rotate an item out after x period if time should no one purchase it? What mechanisms for gifting an item to another avatar would be put in place? I know people liked transferring gachas, and based on the FAQ I'd assume that transferrable items sold in this format are fine. And of course, teaching customers how the new mechanism works.

Good news about the conveyor belt system! It sounds like an interesting way to add some randomness/rarity into purchases for those who might be interested in offering it. It reminds me of discount roulettes - the customer pays the full price set but the roulette spins giving an opportunity for the customer to get various discounts from 10% off to 100% off.

Apologies if these questions have already been addressed in the thread, but there are far too many pages for me to go back and check. I don't see it in the FAQ yet. I'm curious about the following: 1) Is LL planning any further outreach to users beyond an announcement on the forums? Not all users read the forums and so may miss this important news. If users don't see this message, they may not be able to adjust their shops until after the enforcement period begins. 2) Is LL planning to translate this message into languages other than English - or at least outsource the work to residents? Again, this is an important message, but I fear that it's going to be lost among some our non-English speaking friends.

I've seen a fair amount of creators do limited releases of items. There's a certain air of exclusivity to it kind of like the rare/super-rare items from gacha. People get to be 1 of however many people in SL who have an item. People might also get a bit of a rush from snagging an item in time and getting to purchase something before the limited copies run out. For people who roleplay it also adds a bit of realism. I've seen it with creators making luxury-style items like handbags, but I've also seen it at a few events too. Creators might offer an event-exclusive item or a special price to the first however many people who purchase the item as a way of driving interest and traffic. There's also the roleplay system BeYou, where people can sell the food they've harvested and cooked to other users. Quantities available to shoppers are limited, just like real life. It could be an interesting avenue for creators who are interested in adding some exclusivity and randomness to their items. Maybe creators can rotate in items from a set on a random schedule for a limited-time only, or for a limited quantity only. That'd still be allowable under the new rules.

Oh, that's good news! I haven't checked any of those sites lately, but I recognize all of them. Hopefully they will reach people who haven't checked SL in a while. I personally found out when scrolling through Reddit - on that note, if LL is interested in feedback there's a good amount of comments over there on the topic. (There's a very interesting discussion about how/whether creators use gacha to subsidize the cost of production). I've seen a couple of SL YouTubers cover the topic on their channels which is good as well. It may be tough with TPVs, but a notice on load screens could be very useful for the folks who don't check forums but still are logging into SL regularly.

After I made my post, I also thought about language barriers - I know many people on SL are English speakers, but not everyone is. Here on the forums, there are sections for specific languages, the knowledge base is in multiple languages, and on Second Life's website, there are different language settings available. Maybe I've missed something, but I see that the blog post and FAQ is only written in English. Is this an important enough message for LL (or resident volunteers) to be translating?

76 pages later, it's clear that people have many feelings and many questions about what's going on. I've been obsessively watching the Olympics so haven't really been on SL that much. It's been a bit since I've processed the end of gacha and part of me is still quite disappointed to see them go. I understand the legal reasons why LL is making this decision but I will miss visiting gacha resellers and looking around at their virtual yard sales. Yes, they'll still be around after the end of gacha, but eventually their stock will dry out and they will be all gone. Apologies if I've missed this on the thread, but I don't see it in the FAQ and I'm still curious: How does LL plan to reach the folks that may not go on the forums? There are many people in SL who do not frequent the forums. It's possible many folks will not get on fast enough to remove machines before the enforcement period starts. What kind of economic impact do people foresee this will have on SL? Certainly, many gacha creators will retool, but other creators and events will leave or pull those products entirely. Gacha resellers lose their way of making L and LL loses out on all income from MP transaction fees. Revenue from gacha resale sims is going to be gone. I'm guessing the economic impact is better than whatever legal enforcement LL is/may face? Will I leave SL because of gacha ending? No, but I might spend less time playing and less L because one of the activities I enjoyed doing is now gone.

I can’t say I’m surprised, knowing that loot boxes are increasingly being regulated. I can’t say I’m not disappointed either, as someone who enjoys buying from gacha resellers and who dipped her toes into gacha reselling briefly. It was a great way to get items for much cheaper than average retail price and kind of fun too, like searching at a yard sale! While I can see the need for this policy, the time window seems much too short. My heart goes out to the SL gacha creators and gacha resellers who rely on this for at least some part of their income. I’m curious what kind of effect this is going to have for the economy - like the loss of events like the Arcade and the loss of revenue for gacha resellers. It was a good way for non-mesh creators to make a little Linden. Beyond the forums, how is LL going to be communicating this large change? Many people don’t read here and so may miss this important message.

I also would not recommend Kalhene Erika - at least, right now and at its current price point. There are very few creators that make clothing for it and it's only a couple hundred Linden cheaper than the Maitreya. At that point, you might as well go for Maitreya. Not sure if this is the Ruth both you had, but a good free body is G&D's Ruth 3.5 - I found it fit Maitreya clothes decently well, though I sometimes needed to use the included alpha. I don't think it is applier compatible however. If you are open to it, I would advise looking into BoM skins as that is what seems to be most supported nowadays. Otherwise, I would recommend going for Maitreya. My go to recommendation used to be Kalhene Anya, but now that it has increased in price (and is bundled with another product), the price point is no longer so cheap anymore in comparison. Last Black Friday, Maitreya was running a sale in their store that included a discount on bodies. Of course, they might not run it again this year but if you're looking to purchase it for cheap, you could wait until then to see if it will be discounted again this year.

These are technically videos, but I enjoy just listening to the dialogue while I explore SL. This is the beginning of my favourite series from the YouTuber Kitboga. Kitboga is the alias of a scambaiter on YouTube and Twitch. Using voice changers and voice acting, Kitboga poses as different characters in the attempt to waste the time of phone scammers so that they won't target real victims. His videos are entertaining and educational at the same time!

I am very thankful to report that an honest mistake was indeed a different case. I contacted support today and spoke to a very helpful Linden who processed my refund. It went through immediately - I can see it on my PayPal. My account will also be downgraded. If anything, their customer support might have sold me on Premium in the future - this time, on my terms! I’ve learnt my lesson and will be very careful with doing my own currency conversions *beforehand* instead of relying on a secondary PayPal page to show me! Thank you to everyone for their advice.

Thanks, Alwin. To be completely honest, I was panicking throughout the payment and was not really registering anything that was happening. Going back through my History now that I have a clearer head, I can see that I did indeed encounter a Cashier page... bad news for me... I also see this in the TOS: 4.4 Linden Lab has no obligation to accept returns or provide refunds of any amounts paid for products or services purchased from Linden Lab. Though it also says something about "a discretionary pro-rata refund or credit in certain circumstances", which I would be curious to learn more about. When I was thinking about a confirmation page, I was more so thinking about the confirmation page given by PayPal itself. I expected to be routed through that way. Previously, I had been able to hit a "Buy Now" button or equivalent, and then was routed to a secondary PayPal page where I then had to make another confirmation before payment was taken. I did not see that page this time around, which I am disappointed about. An important lesson was learnt today. I've taken care to remove my card from PayPal and stop automatic payments from Tillia so more expensive mistakes won't happen again! At least I can use and enjoy my new Premium account for a year in the event no refund is given.

Thanks Quistess. It's too bad that they're not open right now, I'd like to ideally do this as quick as possible. I know a refund might not be possible, but I might as well try. I really thought a confirmation page would pop up, but no such luck on my side. I see payment has already gone through on my PayPal as well...

As the title suggests, I accidentally paid for a Premium account. I hit "Buy Now" on the Premium page thinking this would bring me to a secondary Pay Pal page where I can see how much currency conversion fees will be, as I typically see. I did not have the intention of purchasing the account, I only wanted to see how much currency conversion fees may be before purchasing. I typically seea confirmation page before purchasing anything, but not this time. After seeing that no such page popped up, I tried to navigate away as quickly as I can, but the purchase of $99 USD already went through! I do not wish to pay for it and want to reverse the fee as quickly as I can. Is there any way of doing this and getting a refund, or I am stuck with the Premium account? I am kicking myself already... EDIT (to correct the TOS sectino) 4.4 Linden Lab has no obligation to accept returns or provide refunds of any amounts paid for products or services purchased from Linden Lab. I've answered my own question I suppose, though I have lodged a support ticket to ask anyways. The TOS also mentions something about a discretionary pro-rata refund or credit in certain circumstances, which I would be curious to know more about.

I watch a fair amount of content on YouTube from creators like this . I don't think it's fair to say that someone who does things for content on Second Life can't possibly be retained. It's possible to count on Second Life as a source of content, like for a video or blog, and to also enjoy playing it as well. There are people who make videos trolling and griefing on Second Life, but he wasn't one of them. I'd actually argue that gaming YouTubers are theoretically easier to maintain than the average gamer. Because they want to get enough content to make a video, they're not likely to quit after their first setback in Second Life. Had it not been for his video, I think this creator would have quit playing a lot earlier based on his confusion. If the creator and their viewers like Second Life, it creates a new stream of content for the creator, which could draw in new subscribers and provide something different for current subscribers to watch. There's an incentive to keep with a game if there's enough demand for it. Lastly, creators have the benefit of being able to read any specific advice people may give them about Second Life in the comments of their video or through their social media, whereas the average gamer doesn't have such direct availability to feedback. I think it is possible to retain users with gaming backgrounds, but I don't think it's a general group where LL should be spending a lot of time marketing towards. I agree with you - I think there is a lot of potential with people who are interested in home decoration, shopping, and socializing. 'Gamer' is too broad of a group to market to, but 'slice of life' gamers for lack of a better term may be a better group to target. I think it would be more effective to focus on retaining this group than the catch-all 'gamer'. Carmen King is a YouTube creator with a lot of experience in this genre and she's been covering Second Life on her channel for several months now. I've noticed a good deal of other people in her comment section being interested in Second Life as a step up from the Sims - so there's at least some anecdotal evidence of interest from this crowd. The problem with converting this group of viewers into players seems to be the onboarding process. In general, I'd love to see LL address the newbie onboarding process and help flatten the steep learning curve of Second Life. It's not a direct way of retaining a leaver like that creator, but I do think it could improve the chances that someone like him, as well as people in the target demographic, will stick around. At the very least, it could have made the experience less confusing for this creator. Even if Second Life was never going to be for him, at least he might have left a slightly more favourable review for his viewers who might be interested.

I've never owned my own land, so I've never been able to search anything before. I wouldn't list spaces that I would hope to be private, like a home or skybox of mine, but I would list any location that I would want to be open to the general public. While I have been on SL for 7 or 8 months now, in many ways, I still consider myself to be new in Second Life. I enjoy finding new places and shops to visit. I prefer to use search when I'm in SL instead of going to to a web browser to keep everything in one place. For shops, I'll either try to type keywords into (Firestorm) search or rely on sales. For other kinds of locations - say, rental offices, RP communities, or sims I can explore, I pretty much exclusively rely on search. I wish though, that I could be finding places that are different than the ones who are always in weekend sales or always getting traffic from word-of-mouth. I especially wish I could come across more shops that sell clothing and hair that matches current Asian beauty trends! Sometimes, I can find them in the weekend sales, but they generally do not pop up so much in these sales or in English-language fashion blogs (at least from what I have seen). I've not had much luck with in-world searches either. I'd be curious if the language barrier is also a reason why I'm unable to find these shops - say, with shops owned and operated by Japanese-speaking creators who don't interact with the English-speaking SL space as much. Kawaii fashion is a bit easier to find as it's a more unique search term and there are whole events for it, but other styles are harder to come across. Something like "Chinese street fashion" or 'Korean idol fashion" is harder to directly search for. The woes of searching aren't just limited to retail locations, unfortunately. Even on mainland, it can be difficult for me to use search to try and find new locations to explore. One time, I was trying to find rez zones by roads on Zindra. I wasn't having much luck with the search or with the Wiki. I still don't know how to navigate simply by looking at the map, and I don't think I would be able to spot a rez zone that way (if it is even possible?) I ended up scrolling through many pages on the forum hoping to find an updated link to somewhere, anywhere where I could drive! Thankfully, I came across a post talking about a HUD that helps you find rez zones around mainland. I've stopped using search to try and find those rez zones and have just been relying on the HUD ever since.

My favourite free body is Ruth 3.5. You can find it on Marketplace here. When I was using it, I found that it fit most Maitreya clothing decently well, though you can always use the included alphas if clothes don't quite fit right. What's nice about this one is that BOM capabilities are included, whereas with Lucybody, you have to pay extra for BOM capabilities. This body also comes with a free head and skins, but I can't comment on their quality as I've never tried them. I'll echo everyone in the thread by saying that the Genus Strong head is the best free head out there at the moment! As for free skins: I know that 7 Deadly S[k]ins has free skins for avatars under 30 days old. Their group is L$150, but for that price you can have access to group gifts, lucky boards, camping chairs, and midnight mania. Occasionally, they will make their group free to join, so that's a good time to jump in. They also have at least one skin at the Free Dove, which is an excellent resource for all kinds of freebie items. WOW! Skins has a number of group gift skins. I think their group join fee is around L$100, but like 7 Deadly S[k]ins, they occasionally make their group free to join. LAQ should have a few free gift skins at their store. Some of them are for LAQ heads, but last time I was there, there was one for Genus as well. Pink Fuel has some free gift skins for newer avatars (under 30 days or 60 days, but I can't remember which one of those it is at the moment!)