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Posts posted by animats

  1. 1 hour ago, Imagin Illyar said:

    4. This is the really big one – paint on terrain – a tool that works like a brush to paint a texture directly onto the terrain. The brush would have faded edges so that textures would naturally blend.

    An in-world paint or draw system would be very useful. Not just for land, but for textures in general. Something about like Pinta, which is a very basic open source paint program.

    One nice thing about an in-world paint program is that you could allow painting on mod textures that you can't download. So you could put lettering on a shirt, for example, without the creator of the shirt giving up creatorship of the texture.

  2. Yes, it's surprisingly easy to do that with keyframe animation.


    My moving sidewalk. The belt is moved forward slowly with keyframe animation, then returned to its original position instantaneously. KFM_LOOP mode does that if the end and start positions are different. Friction moves the avatar. If the movement distance and the texture repeat match, the illusion of continuous motion is created. You can't turn an avatar with friction, though. Put an avatar on a rotating platform, and it will move in a circle, but not change direction. There's a single point of contact friction between a capsule and a flat surface in the Havok physics engine, so no torques are applied.

    No pushing, no poseballs, no attachments needed. Works for any number of riders. You can even try to walk in the wrong direction and mostly get nowhere.

    This would be useful for large events, to keep people moving through the exhibits and stores. You can get on and off anywhere, so it's fine for a row of shops. There's a pair of these in the Oiling Festival Hall in New Babbage.


    Escalators at SYZM Tower, Northbridge. Same basic principle. The escalator is more complicated. There are some fussy issues with getting the avatar smoothly off the steps at the top. Resizing the escalator has to be done in Blender. The moving sidewalk can be resized in-world.

    This is also how those discs which move people off teleport landing points work. I've also seen some conveyors in SL which appear to work this way.

    I sell all this stuff on Marketplace.

    • Thanks 1

  3. 12 hours ago, Morena Tully said:

    With mesh, my RL person has to leave SL, make things with a program, and it just ruins it for me. There's no fix.

    Yes. I was discussing this at Creator User Group, and commented that the typical creator probably has Blender, Photoshop, and Firestorm all open at once. Maybe two copies of Firestorm, one on the beta grid. Someone in the meeting sent me an IM: "That's my working environment". That's not the normal user experience. The social aspect of SL is completely lost.

    (I was commenting on this in connection with clothing for animesh characters. A clothing change requires baking a clothing texture file on a skin texture file in Photoshop to create a clothing-on-skin texture. Then you upload an image (L$10), and put the texture on the animesh character. There's talk of Bakes on Mesh eventually helping with this, but it is apparently a ways off.)

    Ideally, SL would have in-world mesh editing. Like Sinespace now does, at least for buildings. Something like viewer-embedded SketchUp would be useful.

    Meanwhile, we really need to get LOD generation under control. The current alternatives are 1) terrible low LODs, and 2) way too much time in Blender making manual LOD models.

    • Like 3

  4. SL16B's arrival point has a teleport map which attaches a temporary attachment to your avatar, an attachment with a particle emitter and sound.

    Bad idea. I used the teleport map to get to Ebbe's talk, and in the overloaded sim, the particle emitter wouldn't finish and detach. So I was stuck there in a purple cloud for over a minute. Got nasty messages in chat. I finally had to log out.

    • Like 1

  5. 6 hours ago, CoffeeDujour said:

    If fees in SL kick up to anything like a 30% tax on creators

    That won't fly. Apple is in trouble in the EU over their attempt to collect 30%. In fact, only little guys pay 30%. Most of the big players have special deals. Spotify has a deal. When Zynga was big on Facebook, they forced Facebook to cut them a deal on payments.

    While most vendors in LL accept only Linden Dollars, they could potentially accept other forms of payment. Venmo, Zelle, and Facebook's new Libra coin are possibilities. It's not worth it for little transactions, but some big SL landlords already accept credit cards.


  6. 5 hours ago, Wildefire Walcott said:

    people following stale landmarks

    Maybe more than half the "see item in world" links on Marketplace are stale. I've ended up in people's houses, in midair, underwater, and on abandoned land.

    Marketplace needs a background task that periodically checks for changes in land ownership on all Marketplace TP links. If land ownership changes, the store owner should get a message telling them that they need to reconfirm the link, and if they don't do so in a week or so, the link goes away.

    • Like 1

  7. I hadn't noticed that. But I made my bikes so robust that they shrug off minor road problems.

    I rezzed one of the free GTFO vehicles, the "Benzz K7 GTFO Offer", and it cannot cross onto a "LH - Traditional Road - Curve 2/4 Section" which is a convex hulled object that includes both curbs, sidewalks, and road. The physics model is at curb height across the road, and that vehicle gets totally stuck. Setting that to "convex hull" mode was wrong, because it's concave, and it matters for that object.

    I would expect a bump, but the vehicle should not get totally stuck.


    Front end of the test vehicle. I've made the "sled" prim the vehicle rides on visible. (All SL ground vehicles really slide; they don't roll. Rolling is an illusion builders work to create.) This is a much steeper front end than I use on my bikes; they have a flattened convex mesh ellipsoid supporting them, and that will slide across almost anything. But this should work. It will, in fact, go over curbs the same height as the trouble spot.


    On the left, a prim cube, resized. On the right, a mesh cube, resized. Same dimensions.

    This vehicle can drive over the prim cube, with a bump, but gets stuck trying to drive over the mesh cube. Doesn't matter whether the mesh cube is set to "prim" or "object" mode. That's unexpected. Not clear why yet.




    • Like 2

  8. 5 minutes ago, Kyrah Abattoir said:

    I think they go on the guideline that since SL is 100% user generated, there is literally zero guarantee that the content will abid to... well anything.

    Twitch allows Minecraft, which is 100% user generated. And yes, there is Minecraft porno.

    • Confused 1

  9. 1 hour ago, CarterTom said:


    Unfortunately, it still is.

    That's something that LL management should be taking up with Twitch management. It's embarrassing that SL is in the doghouse on Twitch. This hurts new user acquisition. It's embarrassing to SL users who'd like to show SL to their friends.

    Twitch's detailed policy reads "Games featuring nudity, pornography, sex, or sexual violence as a core focus or feature, and gameplay modified to feature these elements are entirely prohibited. Occurrences of in-game nudity are permitted, so long as you do not make them a primary focus of your content and only spend as much time as needed in the area to make progress." SL could meet that standard outside of Adult areas.

  10. On 6/21/2019 at 1:55 AM, Mollymews said:

    when a sign is over 8 meters tall then contravenes the mainland ad farm policy.  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:About_ad_farms_and_network_advertisers

    some newer people who get into making mainland ad networks don't know about this policy as the mainland parcel About Land \ Covenant says No Covenant. With newer accounts, maybe before AR then a IM to them with a link to the policy

    Yes. Visit the south end of Corsica and head west on the coast road, and you'll see a few large signs on tiny parcels. File ARs. Oversize, encroaches on Linden land, glows - all reasons to AR. Amusingly, the biggest ones are ads for ad space. They don't have actual customers or revenue. They seem to have bought up some of those little "Taxi" ad stands and put huge signs on them. So much uglyness with no benefit to anyone.

    (Corsica really needs some more roads through the under-utilized abandoned land in the interior. Once you get 100m from road or sea, it's mostly bleak abandoned land. LL might plant forests on abandoned land. If they used good trees, SL could have leaf tourism.)

  11. On 6/22/2019 at 9:48 AM, LittleMe Jewell said:

    There used to be a place in SL - at least up until sometime in 2017 - that gave a year by year history like that.  It isn't there any more, or at least not at the last LM that I had for it.

    There's an SL history museum near the Ivory Tower, but it's not year by year.

  12. On 6/20/2019 at 7:25 PM, Caerolle Llewellyn said:

    I just visited the Tapestry of Time section. Extremely depressing. All the places I loved are gone, all the people I loved are gone. The only thing that lasts in SL is lag, and wow, I am experiencing perhaps the worst lag I have ever had in SL. The one thing I would love to see go, and way back in the day I stupidly thought one day LL would actually fix it.

    2017-2019 is rather depressing. 2017: "Linden Lab gives premium members the ability to view 90 days of their transaction history."

    • Like 1
    • Haha 6

  13. Designating some streets as "through routes" and using a different pavement marking would be a nice touch. No LI cost. Then you could drive around without having to have the world map open.

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1

  14. 3 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said:

    A sort of Level of Detail in overall dynamic avatar representation as a function of crowd size and distance.

    That's working now in the viewer. In Preferences, set "Number of non-impostor avatars" to about 3. The viewer will no longer choke on large numbers of avatars. The sim still will.

  15. On 6/21/2019 at 2:15 AM, Theresa Tennyson said:

    Second Life at its height has never had concurrency greater than that of Topeka, Kansas. When it was at its highest the system was threatening to tip over under the load. Meanwhile today, with average concurrency around half of its peak, there are still regions that regularly are unable to support all the people who want to go there for certain occasions.

    Second Life is a tiny niche and can't be anything else with the current technology.

    Yes. Draw a crowd in SL and the sim overloads. This is a severe limitation on SL.

    I think it's technically possible to fix that within the current architecture, but it's a bigger job than the current dev team can tackle. And once it worked, you'd need multiple CPUs per sim, running up server costs.

  16. 5 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

    OK, so....we're all kinda right.

    @animats is right that the viewer is able to generate mesh that the user is not (currently) allowed to upload, kind of.

    Yours truly is right that it is impossible to upload a mesh asset that does not have matching material counts for each LOD.

    @Aquila Kytori is on the right track, that the "unused" materials are assigned a placeholder. The placeholder is a single triangle of zero size. Which somewhere along the way must be decaying to a single vert in the export. I'm not inclined to chase that squirrel just yet.

    Here is what is happening at upload...

    The entry of a key, with the string "NoGeometry" creates an entry in the mesh asset for that material, thus fulfilling my requirement above, there is no way for a user to create this themselves.

    Thanks for all that work.

    "NoGeometry" is not unexpected. That's a documented feature in the mesh file format:

    ""NoGeometry" -- optional, boolean, must be true -- If present, there is no geometry for this submesh. This submesh is just a placeholder to let the simulator/viewer know that there is a texture entry for this submesh with no geometry at this LoD. No additional fields may be specified if "NoGeometry" is present." - from http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Mesh/Mesh_Asset_Format

    5 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

    You really really need to have actual mesh to render or it would require all kinds of additional sanity checks and edge cases, so it creates some dummy geometry to act as a sentinel.

    A bit ugly, but gets the job done.

    5 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

    I need to think more about it and consider the inverted cases such as imposters where you effectively have a null material in the High, that acquires mesh data in the lower LODs. 

    Right. That's why I originally wanted this. I wrote an impostor generator for Blender which generates a low-LOD mesh with a new material not present in the higher detail LODs-. I didn't want to modify the user-created higher level of detail model, adding dummy triangles and materials. That would confuse the user, and possibly mess up something they're doing. Mesh cleanup on their model might delete the dummy triangles, for example. Some mesh functions will try to do something with the dummy triangles, confusing the user. Running the impostor generator more than once might add dummy geometry on each rerun, and preventing that requires bookkeeping data somewhere. So, not a good solution.

    I read the documentation and found the "NoGeometry" file data item. If only I could generate that...


    if we can come up with a better solution that allows the uploader to recognise this without making it harder for users to debug their genuine material cockups...

    Yes. The Firestorm uploader has useful messages about what matches and what doesn't match across LODs. But the messages are in the "Firestorm.log" file, which only developers read. If those messages were displayed to the end user during uploads, there would be much less confusion about material and object matching problems.

    Thanks for chasing this down. Now what?

  17. On 6/7/2019 at 12:02 PM, Yorkie Bardeen said:

    I won't argue against the social/psychological theories for dystopia, but I will suggest also that SL mostly lent itself to a darker, more confined version of the future. Open spaces are harder to realize than dense urban scenes- SL is quite small and cramped in terms of pure square meterage.

    There used to be a "Route 66" sim which was a small town in the middle of a big empty desert. It's gone. Nobody can afford a big empty desert in SL. I'd like to have long roads through unpopulated woods, open country, mountains, and such, connecting some points of interest. That's sort of what "open space" sims are for, but they are not used much. We do have that long open water route between Bellesaria and Jeoghot now, but there's nothing comparable with land.

  18. 11 hours ago, Beq Janus said:

    I'll have a look at how it works when I get a chance. but yeah, as far as I can tell there is absolutely no way to upload a mesh without having at least one triangle per submesh (where a submesh is what we're calling material)

    what you are seeing as vertices are probably very tiny triangles is my guess.

    However, until I look that remains conjecture, so I'll take a peek when I can

    Thanks. Somehow the built-in LOD generator pulls this off. Tiny triangles? Degenerate triangles? I dunno.

  19. 14 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

    If we learned anything from adfarmers, it's that a ridiculously small amount of tier can buy an appalling lot of ugly. Microparcels are weapons of extreme asymmetrical warfare.

    Er, yes.


    Censored to avoid naming and shaming, per policy. This thing is huge. 25 meters high on a 4m x 4m parcel. That's a standard size Linden road in the background. The sign overhangs the road. This one is in Corsica. There are probably more.

    • Like 1
    • Sad 1

  20. Some test results:

    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Timing tests.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 1024 in 2.313786 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 1024 elements in 4.798160 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 512 in 0.421613 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 512 elements in 2.094694 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 256 in 0.088729 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 256 elements in 1.275658 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 128 in 0.039960 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 128 elements in 0.670230 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 64 in 0.039129 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 64 elements in 0.674368 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Fill array of 32 in 0.000000 secs.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: 1024 updates to list of 32 elements in 0.601021 seconds.
    [23:57] Array update timing test 0.3: Done

    Performance is independent of list length up to 128. Then it gets worse, linearly. So using multiple lists no longer than 128 seems to be an useful optimization.

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