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animats

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Posts posted by animats


  1. I'm getting the error channel message:

    [11:39] Testi - NPC trainee  14.0: Could not find object ''.

    That's a new one, not on the list of known script run-time errors.

    It's being triggered by my scripts, but which LSL call can generate that?

    For what it's worth, it's happening during startup, after script reset, as my scripts are sending link messages to find each other and hook up. I used to have all the scripts in one prim, but I'm converting to a system where they're in several prims, for ease of modification. So it probably has something to do with inter-prim communications.

    (Somebody got this message back in 2008, but the archived posting doesn't answer the question.)


  2. On 12/3/2019 at 1:27 AM, Nalates Urriah said:

    The render engine is in a single thread. But, more and more of the viewer runs in separate threads.

    Right. The main thread in the viewer is almost always the bottleneck. It's doing almost all the rendering. Other threads manage texture and geometry loading, the texture cache, voice, and media-on-a-prim (which launches an entire web browser, "Dullihan", a headless Google Chrome, for each media object.)

    The GPU is rarely the bottleneck  unless something is horribly wrong. You can look at the rendering stats, and rarely is the GPU at 100%.

    Texture loading delays are a big problem. The texture loader in the viewer has a loading policy which is way out of date and was probably designed to prevent overloading the sim processes back when they served the textures. Textures now are delivered just like images on web pages, from completely separate servers hosted by AWS and front-ended by Akamai's cache and content delivery network. SL is not going to overload that. But the viewer throttling keeps texture loads way below what the viewer, network, and content delivery network could handle if you have a fast (>10Mb/s) connection. Watch your network traffic as  you go to a new region. It may take a full minute for everything to load, but network bandwidth after the first 10 seconds will be low.

    This is being looked at as part of Project Arctan. It's discussed at Creator User Group.

    Part of the problem is finding the texture loading policy in the viewer. It's spread all over the texture loading code; there's no separation of policy from mechanism. So it's hard to modify. The system is quite powerful and clever, but way under-commented in the code. Which is why it hasn't been fixed. It' also hard to Q/A; it takes a lot of testing to avoid "it works worse for me now" complaints.

    This is one of those places where SL is slow for the wrong reasons. This is really a bug.

    Other places like that include the fact that idle scripts in SL use some time on every frame. Not much, about 3 microseconds per frame. But multiply that by 5000 scripts, and there goes most of your script time. You usually have about 16ms, or 16,000 microseconds, of script time per frame. Blow 15,000 of that on idle scripts, and the sim chokes. Again, this is really a bug. Discussed at Server User Group, and understood to be a bug, but hard to fix. It's a problem that requires reworking the script scheduler. It's a huge win to fix, though; for some sims, most of the server time is going down this drain.

    The designers didn't anticipate so many objects having rarely-used scripts. That's why things like sit targets are persistent; the idea was that you'd set the sit target once and delete the script. Not install AVsitter.

    • Like 1

  3. Vallone was  restarted about two hours ago, and it went to 95%+ scripts running, with good operation. Calleta is still having drops to 3% occasionally.

    This seems to have very little to do with what's going on the region. It acts more like some kind of bug in the sim system. If it was something in the region content, restarts wouldn't clear it up.

    10 hours ago, Sharie Criss said:

    All development costs money, and good developers aren't cheap. LL has some great developers on staff, but when 95% of your focus is on new features (BOM, Animesh, Sansar, etc.) and pretty much nothing on stability, reliability and performance, this is where you end up. These performance issues (and sim crashes to go with them) should be the A#1 top priority due to their impact on users. I'm not saying that things like BOM and Animesh aren't cool or needed, but if the cost is stability and performance, I'd forgo those features in a heartbeat.

    We had a discussion along those lines at Server User Group today. Many people there are bothered by the bugs and performance problems, and not that excited about any planned new features. The Lindens said that the group that shows up at Server User Group is atypical of the user community. That's true, but may not be relevant. The people who come to Server User Group can read the statistics windows, look at JIRAs, and are very familiar with the system. But they're mostly seeing the same problems as the new users who post "this game sux" on gamer forums - slow performance, visible artifacts in the graphics, and immersion-breaking teleport and region crossing fails. That stuff just doesn't happen in modern games.

    What's in the pipeline, server side, besides "last names"? Moving to "the cloud", of course. 2019 got animesh, bakes on mesh, and EEP. Not too bad. In terms of advanced users asking for new features, mostly what comes up in the meetings is little stuff - more info available via llGetObjectDetails, a few more avatar-type features for animesh such as resizing sliders and bakes on mesh. 

    There's some stuff going on viewer side, with two new graphics Lindens hired. But that's viewer-side, pretty much independent of server side. Project Arctan has server-side components, but it's mostly about what to draw when and at at what level of detail and resolution, which is viewer side.

    The devs are doing a good job for the resources they have. They just don't have enough resources for this very large system.


  4. 11 hours ago, ChinRey said:

    You did open a support case, didn't you?

    No, because I have a higher priority support problem pending. I try to have no more than one support ticket pending at a time. If you report too many problems, you get ignored. Will someone else report this, please? Thanks.

    • Haha 1

  5. This morning, Vallone is doing better, but Calleta is still stalling out intermittently.

    calletaslow02med.thumb.png.28441da9a1c36a66b69eabbf82e000a5.png

    Calleta sim stats, Tuesday, 10 AM. 4% scripts running. High simulation time. As before, it spikes a few times a minute. So Calleta is still broken.

    My NPCs at Vallone report trouble automatically. Most days, they report no problems. Their first trouble report was around 9 AM Sunday, and the last one was at 7 PM Monday. The reports were for scripts running so slow that a stall timer tripped and reset the NPC. So we can bracket the times when Vallone was broken.

    No response on the trouble ticket yet.


  6. I've mentioned the idea of "walled parcel continent", for people who want to build a wall around their property. Found this on the SL world map.

    wallland.thumb.jpg.ea76968f6fd37169b33e23653d94a31f.jpg

    Non-Continent of Walled Parcels. No idea who set this up, but clearly there's demand for this sort of thing. People who want to wall off their mainland parcel should be moved to someplace like this. That's how we can get to wall-free mainland.

    There are other groupings of parcels on the map cut up this way. This is just an example.

    • Sad 1

  7. Went to Hyperion to check on a business location. Not looking good over there. The trolley system in Hyperion on the Sharp Continent, the old Teen Grid, has been wrecked.

    brokentrolley03.thumb.jpg.555c1f4e86103cf207de660699582e9f.jpg

    brokentrolley02.thumb.jpg.42ef022c6abe436d3c05119318b1389b.jpg

     

    brokentrolley05.thumb.jpg.c8b3bc7b2add26103509c8825332af81.jpg

    At least two aerial cars and four ground trolleys have crashed in Hyperion and Ni sims. One aerial car is still running.

    It's Linden rail, not SLRR. Owner Michael Linden, group "Maintenance".


  8. 12 hours ago, carolinestravels said:

    Mainland (Including Zindra) sex regions are 1.3 % of the entire grid.

    Even Zindra isn't that sex-oriented. There are sex-related businesses, but they're a minor part of the landscape. Actually, most of Zindra is for sale or rent. The big activity in Zindra is not sex. It's  land-flipping. Prices are high and much land is vacant, with filler buildings. Most of the real sex sims are private sims off mainland.


  9. 4 hours ago, Vanity Fair said:

    My understanding of the issue is that it is technically impossible to fix this, but I don't know the technical details about why. Perhaps someone with a better knowledge than I can elucidate.

    The SL summary.

    See this Wikipedia article for the theory.

    The "over" operator is not commutative. So the order in which the objects are drawn matters. The viewer has to sort alpha-blend faces by depth, using the main CPU, not the GPU. Faces, not pixels. Faces which intersect faces in the look direction have an "who's in front" ambiguity. This is why things like crossed signs get mis-drawn when alpha blended. If you use alpha blending, the faces involved should not cross through each other.

    Regular opaque and alpha masked objects get sorted out pixel by pixel in the GPU, by storing their "depth' (distance from the viewpoint) in a "Z buffer". The pixel with the smallest Z-buffer value wins. GPUs do all that with built-in hardware, so that's cheap. That gets 'who's in front" right on a per-pixel basis, so it doesn't have the see-through problem.

    If you want skin-tight clothing, there's always old-fashioned texture clothing, which is really just a paint job. But you can get translucency right, since that happens when you composite the texture images on top of each other in 2D.

    • Thanks 1

  10. On 12/1/2019 at 9:10 AM, Marianne Little said:

    I think a lot could be avoided with buffer zones in between and rules for height of the build?

    Now that's a good thought. Buffer zones are part of what makes Bellesaria work. Suppose mainland areas zoned "rural" and "suburban" had decorated buffer zones between parcels. If you owned the parcels on both sides of a buffer zone, you'd be allowed to use the buffer zone. People could buy multiple parcels and build big, but sell or rent it out and the buffer zone reverts to LL.

    This goes along with the "no big walls" rule. You get some division from your neighbors with the buffer zone, but can't overdo it with a 50m slab wall.


  11. Just now, Pussycat Catnap said:

    Useful, but steam only measures people that log in through steam - I didn't even know that was possible for SL. That probably excludes EVERYONE who plays 'XXX-SL' ;), so basically everyone... :D

    But it's still impressive to see it there, when that's also all online games (judging by the inclusion of GTA), and not just MMO-like ones.

    SL isn't on Steam and I'm comparing Steam stats with SL stats.

    steamcharts01med.thumb.png.22d1fa58a6313eb9cc2f6624be1fc64a.png

    SL, placed on Steamcharts. If SL were on Steam, it would be in 12th place right now. Which is pretty good.

    These rankings change from hour to hour, but that's about where SL usually would be ranked.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 2

  12. Here we are at 10:30 AM on Monday. Here's Calleta sim.

    calletasimslow04med.thumb.png.2f96b2b4d9a63232c57c035bf12a3364.png

    Calleta sim at 1.3% scripts running. Again, intermittent; it gets above 80% scripts running most of the time, and over 90% sometimes. This is the convenience store of the gas station near near the railroad station. Sim is so slow that even walking across a region crossing doesn't work right. Fell through the ground and was caught in the open space below the road and above the terrain.

    Calleta is a moderately busy sim, a major rail and ferry hub, with many stores and vendors, but I've never seen it this bad before. Doors take seconds to respond to a click, and then move too far and swing back.

    No action on the trouble ticket yet.


  13. lowscripts0a.thumb.png.e1fbc182bf59295c4c50e6c61616c8e5.png

    A new low. 0.5% scripts run. Time dilation 0.4. "Simulation time" over 25ms. What is going on here? I've never seen numbers like that.

    Again, it's intermittent. A few seconds later, things look normal; 75% of scripts running, simulation time way down. It's getting worse; now the sim is running in super-slow mode about half the time. I'm not sure what's using "simulation time".

    Only 2 main agents (avis in current sim), and 3 child agents (in nearby sims within view distance) The one other avi in the sim isn't doing anything complicated, but it's slow for her, too. She left the sim; that had little effect. Nobody is entering or leaving the sim much, so it's not transients from that. I don't think it's child agents; the next sim has a club, about 50m distant, within easy draw range. It's often busy without hurting this sim. Right now the club is empty and that's not helping.

    My NPCs are running, trying to use script time, but not much of it. They use 1%-2% of a sim's script capacity; I've tested in sandboxes with 50 of them. I've had them running all week, and until 9AM today, the sim was running fine. Dacy, in the picture, has her arms folded and looks annoyed because she's waiting for her path planner to run so she can move.

    As far as I know, there are no breedables in this sim. I've looked in on all the skyboxes in the past; nobody has much up there doing anything.

    I'm not seeing an obvious cause of huge intermittent load.

     


  14. Vallone sim is having intermittent overloads again, or at least something on the same server is.

    simrunningwellmed.thumb.png.47dc2b3ee682d8aaa97fd63ecaf0a236.png

    This is fine. Most of the time it looks like this. 98% of scripts running, some spare time.

    slowscripts01med.thumb.png.bb28c4694f9798ad6e2c9a12852436f3.png

    About once a minute it looks this. 4% of scripts running. I've seen numbers as low as 1.4% scripts running. Big "simulation time". No spare time. My avatar is the only one in the sim. "Main agents" is 1, and this is not being caused by avatars entering and leaving the sim. I have "Nearby People" open and would see that. Note that "Simulation time" is way up. Whatever that covers.

    I've seen slow-running sims before, of course. But this periodic huge burst of "Simulation time" is new.

    My NPCs freeze in place, or worse, continue to animate while not moving, because the anim controller isn't getting script time to stop the animation. I'm also seeing some of my NPCs stall out completely. I'd just run a group of them for a week without a failure, and have logged five failures since 2 AM SLT today. I suspect they were so starved of script time that an event queue overflowed. (I get phone messages for this: "[12:05] Dacy: Dacy in trouble at Vallone <197.06750, 13.88798, 36.35270>: Patroller task: Stalled and reset." I'd gone for days with none of those messages.) Walking is sluggish. Motorcycles slow down but don't fail.

    I have one task measuring delays between timer ticks, and it checks for long stalls. I've seen 8 and 10 seconds reported.

    The last two times Vallone had real problems, it was some other process running on the same server, not in the same region.


  15. 22 hours ago, Jackson Redstar said:

    what the heck is up with Trillia? I had (begrudgingly) sent my DL and a utility biill to an unknown company to "prove"  who I am even though I in fact do have a verified PayPal account, so I could make a transfer of funds to PayPal . Then a couple months later, I go to sell Lindens and make another transfer back to PayPal - and now Trillia says I need to "re prove" I am the person they more than happily took funds from the last time I made a transaction. Like seriously, there is more documentation required for them to skim off the top than what I need to be able to vote!  So now i got all these Lindens 'parked' in a Trillia account literally being held hostage unless I can prove to them again, I am the same person as last time that sent funds to a verified paypal account!

    Tilia is a licensed money transmitter in California. Their regulator is the California Department of Business Oversight. From the Tilia terms of service: "If you have complaints with respect to any aspect of the money transmission activities provided by Tilia, you may contact the California Department of Business Oversight at its toll-free telephone number, 1-866-275-2677, by e-mail at consumer.services@dbo.ca.gov, or by mail at Department of Business Oversight, Consumer Services, 1515K Street, Suite 200, Sacramento, CA 95814."

    The Department of Business Oversight official online complaint form is here.

    Linden Lab has chosen to enter the financial services industry, and that carries with it substantial legal obligations. In that area, they do not have the power to do whatever they want.

    In the financial world, withdrawal difficulty is usually considered a sign of financial trouble.


  16. I was just driving around Jeoghot on Route 9. That's a pretty route. What detracts from the experience? Mostly, stuff that would make no sense in real life:

    • Big flat walls with images on them. As I've said before, there are private landlords who cater to that market. Moving people out of shared mainland to "wall land", with walled areas side by side, would be a win.
    • Really ugly advertising junk. Ad farms that don't even bother to use a model of a RL billboard, but just plaster their ad textures on big ugly prims. I've been ARing some of the ones that are over-height (there's an 8m limit), rotating (not allowed), or more than one per region (not allowed).
    • Big floating stuff at low altitude. This is like the big flat wall problem. It's mostly people having trouble fitting their prefab building to the terrain, and just giving up.This would be a good topic for a class at Caledon Oxbridge or Builders Brewery - SL Architecture 101, or how to make your build fit the land.
    • Bad low level of detail models on large objects. Big triangles in midair. Towers to nowhere. See-through buildings. That's partly a tooling problem, and partly buyers not rejecting such junk. It's sad to go to some of the big prefab builders, set the LOD factor to zero, and look at, or through, the model buildings.

    This is the kind of junk that makes mainland less valuable. There's none of that in Bellesaria. Just cleaning that up would make mainland more valuable. I saw an awful lot of FOR SALE signs this trip. Far more than a few months ago.

    • Like 4
    • Sad 1

  17. I think there's a viewer bug where a texture gets loaded at low resolution, but the request for a load at high resolution takes a very long time to happen.

    texturebadload.thumb.jpg.e78893319e8d06a525e8d3e95f7238ff.jpg

    All the detail in the background loaded, yet the big sign right in front of the avatar is still blurry. I've seen it take as long as a minute for situations like this to clear up. The network traffic falls off to a very low level; it's not scarce network resources.

     

    signnotrezzing.thumb.jpg.90e988d6ee6bbf7ef79ac65bc29ea5a9.jpg

    Which way was that store I came here for? Signs in the foreground seem to be badly handled by the viewer. (Firestorm 6.3.2 here)

    These are all from first visits to a new area, where the texture would not be in cache. Cache is on a SSD, anyway, so loads from there are fast.

    This is a very common problem. Go to some place with lots of pictures or vendors, and walk right up to one. Wait for it to load at full resolution. It usually takes a while. The viewer needs some work on this. It happens even when there's plenty of network capacity available.


  18. Yeah, it's a mess. I went and looked. Someone left a parcel open for object creation by anyone with an autoreturn time of 0, which means forever. So random people can put junk there and it doesn't get cleaned up automatically. At least it's in an area that's mostly abandoned land. Someone did that in Kama City last year and blacked out nine sims.

    Sent a note to the parcel owner. If they log in over the weekend and set the autoreturn time, the thing will clean itself up.

    • Like 1
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