animats
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Posts posted by animats
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That's a good policy statement.
Road connection, Corsica. The Moles left a gap in the hedge for access, and it's up to the parcel owner to connect up somehow.
Behind the "Under construction" sign is one prim of pavement which has some twist to attach cleanly to the Linden road. It's about 2 meters over the parcel edge at its furthest point. This looks far better than following the jagged parcel boundaries. I posted a picture once of someone who carefully ended their landscaping at the parcel boundary alongside a curved road. Looked awful. So, if you do this, make it look like it belongs there.
This sort of thing is common. Most people never notice. Unless it's a pain for someone, . A low-hanging sign that blocked GTFO trucks was a problem once. Someone had a tree branch which interfered with the Zindra monorail. Moles took care of both.
Problems like this come up in real life all the time. Who maintains the space between the sidewalk and the curb? Varies by jurisdiction. I live next to a creek in real life, and a tree growing out of the creek bank fell onto my driveway after a storm. Turns out the county owns one creek bank, the centerline of the creek is a city line, the tree may be on a property line but we'd need a surveyor to be sure, and we never did get a good resolution. Just cut off the part of the tree that was blocking the driveway.
There are two places in Bay City where there is a curb cut in a Linden road to accommodate a private driveway. See if you can find them.
Part of the fun of mainland is making the pieces fit together nicely.
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Be nice to NPCs. Some of them remember. Someday, they will be in charge.
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Oh, that thing. It appeared a few days ago. It's been reported to LL and Soft Linden is following it. If you find someone with an SL account distributing this, report it.
Do NOT install it. It's not a viewer at all. It's an installer for at least four pieces of malware. It installs backdoors that let others take over your machine.
After installing malware, it pops up a message box: "The OpenGL driver detected a problem with the display driver and is unable to continue. The application must close. Error code:3 ,0+64,"Error". There's no viewer in there at all, apparently. Not even a hacked one. Just a line of PowerShell to display that message. If you've downloaded this on a Windows box and run the download, major malware cleanup is required.
This sort of thing is seriously annoying for us third-party viewer developers. Gives TPVs a bad name.
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If you want to upgrade the appearance of things, adding normal maps is more effective than adding environmental reflections.
If you don't want to create normal maps by hand or in Blender, try "Deep Bump", a free Blender plug-in which uses a machine learning model trained on common textures. I've mentioned that before. Really good on brick, shingles, etc., because it knows what those look like. Clothing with textured seams, wrinkles, and pleats sometimes works. Bark is OK.
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I need to make the chrome on my motorcycles shiny. Tested that on the beta grid months ago.
Don't overdo shiny, please. Just because you can make an entire building look like chrome doesn't mean you should.
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A bit more insight. If I set the draw distance to 64 meters, and log Sharpview in near the Ahern/Morris/Dore/Bonifacio corner on the beta grid, two of the regions take a full minute to appear. But if I log in from a point more than 64m from the region corner, and then get closer, crossing the 64m threshold triggers the appearance of the missing regions. So the simulator function that turns on regions as you get close is working, and something that apparently checks once a minute server side for the correct regions being up is working, but the initial state after login is not right.
I wonder if the one minute timer is related to making regions go away when you get far enough away. That's not immediate; there's some delay there, reasonably enough. to prevent frantic region connect/disconnect when close to the draw limit.
I probably need to do something to kick things into action right after login. But what? Time to go read SL viewer code again.
More later.
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Thanks.
I'm looking hard at my logs right now. The stall may have started further back, at EnableSimulator. I get EnableSimulator for each neighbor region, and reply with UseCircuitCode and a CompleteAgentMovement to the neighbor region. Maybe I shouldn't be sending a CompleteAgentMovement to the neighbor region.
The neighbor region simulator sends the viewer a RegionHandshake without any delay, the viewer answers that with a RegionHandshakeReply, and update messages start. So the neighbor simulators seem to be happy, having accepted the connection and delivering updates.
One minute later, there's a duplicate EnableSimulator from the two neighbor regions that are not fully live yet, but not from the ones that are live and displayed. Each of those is immediately followed by the missing EstablishAgentCommmunication event. Then the region starts up.
It's starting to look like I did something wrong back at the EnableSimulator handshake. After UseCircuitCode, what's supposed to be sent to a neighbor region? There's a good chance I'm doing that wrong.
Puzzled that this all works for the first neighbor region, but not others. More later.
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Huh. The prim link order changes with each upload, but the face order per prim shouldn't.
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Thinking about it, I may have seen this, on rare occasions, in Firestorm. My home login location, in a second floor office with windows, overlooks three adjacent regions, and sometimes one of those regions comes up blank, then appears after a delay. If your login location doesn't overlook other regions, you might never see this. Comments?
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42 minutes ago, Monty Linden said:
I only have default logging active so can only compare some phases. Ahern:
The last line indicates where you've invoked the seed capability and things proceed as expected.
Dore:
The seed caps are generated at the same time. Interest list activity should indicate it is enabled (though I didn't check) so I think the RegionHandshakeReply is complete. EAC should be clear to send. But Dore's seed capability invocation by the viewer is delayed. I'd normally blame the viewer for the delay.
Lost EACs will be resent at a maximum rate of once per 5s but it must be driven by IL activity forwarded from main (Morris). That is where I'd look.
(BTW, it may be beneficial to get a key logging setup going with your TLS support. Viewer will get this in the future but being able to wireshark the https: stream and decode it now and in the future may be very useful.)
> RegionHandshakeReply is complete.
Yes, it is, and object updates are pouring in. They go on a holding queue waiting for the EstablishAgentCommunication and the capability fetch for the asset capabilities. Once those are in, the region goes live and all the held object updates are processed, at which point the region snaps into visibility.
> But Dore's seed capability invocation by the viewer is delayed. I'd normally blame the viewer for the delay.
No, as soon as the viewer gets EstablishAgentCommunication, it makes the HTTPS request for the initial region capabilities. I have logging of that; I just didn't send an entire log file.
How does the viewer "invoke the seed capability"? RegionHandshakeReply is done, and we know the simulator got it, because object updates started coming in.
> but it must be driven by IL activity forwarded from main (Morris). That is where I'd look.
"IL activity"? What is that?
There are definitely plenty of AgentUpdate messages being generated. The avatar can be moved around within Morris, and another viewer in Firestorm looking at the same spot sees it moving. Moving the avatar around, or keeping it still, does not seem to affect the 1 minute delay. Is there something else that the viewer must send to the main agent simulator?
I've tried making the event poller time out and retry every 15 seconds. That has no effect on this issue. I'll get several empty timed-out polls, then an EstablishAgentCommunication message. Usually I use a 90 second timer and let the simulator time out. Works the same either way. So it's not a consequence of the poller timeout. Maybe.
The 1 minute delay (± 2 secs) before EstablishAgentCommunication shows up is very consistent in all these scenarios.
More excerpts from the same log summarized previously:
06:06:53 [WARN] EventEstablishAgentCommunication, unparsed: Map({"seed-capability": String("CENSORED"), "agent-id": UUID(CENSORED), "sim-ip-and-port": String("54.202.5.63:13003")}) 06:06:53 [WARN] Establish agent communication event: [MsgServerEvent { region_handle: (255232,256256), event: EstablishAgentCommunication(EventEstablishAgentCommunication { socket_addr: 54.202.5.63:13003, agent_id: CENSORED, seed_capability: "CENSORED" }) }] 06:06:53 [WARN] Establishing agent communication to (255232,256512) 06:06:53 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from Connected to SeedCapabilityReceived: Seed capability from establish agent communication event 06:06:53 [WARN] Fetching capabilities for region (255232,256512) ... 06:06:53 [WARN] Fetched capabilities: RegionCapabilities(RegionCapabilities { start_time: Instant { tv_sec: 2291337, tv_nsec: 167534157 }, region_handle: (255232,256512), region_capabilities: {"GetMesh2": "CENSORED", "GetMesh": "CENSORED", "RenderMaterials": "CENSORED", "GetTexture": "http://asset-cdn.glb.aditi.lindenlab.com", "EventQueueGet": "CENSORED"} }) 06:06:53 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from SeedCapabilityReceived to CapabilitiesReceived: Capabilities received. 06:06:53 [WARN] Region [Ahern] (255232,256512) state change from CapabilitiesReceived to Live: LiveThis is from the same Sharpview log as previously posted. There's been a 1 minute delay between RegionHandshake/RegionHandshakeReply for Ahern before EstablishAgentCommunication was received at the viewer end. That message was rerouted from the viewer's main agent region (Morris) to the neighbor region in the viewer (Ahern). That causes the viewer to request region capabilities "GetMesh2", etc, and those come back within the same second. Ahern then goes to Live state and appears on screen. So the delay is before EstablishAgentCommunication is received, not in fetching capabilities.
It's quite possible that Sharpview needs to send something more to wake up the simulator, but I don't know what.
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1 hour ago, AmeliaJ08 said:
but why can't avatars have 'sit' targets worn as attachments?
Because SL does not have a full hierarchy yet. You only get one level of child prims. Fixing this is an accepted JIRA.
Philip Rosedale once said that not having a full hierarchy, like every other 3D program, was his biggest design mistake.
You can sit on animesh. That's how SL horses work.
QuoteThis would enable all sorts of stuff that is currently complicated/compromised by the inability for one avatar to 'sit' on another.
Yes, if you wore a sex HUD and others could sit on you, you could have sex anywhere. Unclear if that would be a good thing.
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What's the best current info for someone who wants to make basic mesh clothing? Are there free Blender models for basic shirts, dresses, pants, etc. that can be modified? Or do you have to get Marvelous Designer and do it from scratch?
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1 hour ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:
That is unfortunately how it works. A script keeps permissions forever (for one avatar at a time), unless they request new permissions.
The "revoke permissions" option in our viewers works only for non-attached objects, but even then, any copies of the script in the griefer's inventory will still keep their permission to animate you.
Is there a legit use case for having permissions persist for items in inventory?
If this really is an irrevocable situation, this is a bug.
If someone can make that happen with a simple, reproducible, example, it would help to write it up as a JIRA. Make a scripted prim that, when sat on, makes an avatar do something once every few seconds when nearby. Demonstrate that none of the standard ways to stop it work. Make a video. Put a link to the video and the text of the script in the JIRA. Consider marking the JIRA as security-related; that's a checkbox.
Then come to Server User Group (Every Tuesday, noon, Denby) and bring it up with the developers. Do the JIRA first. Otherwise you'll be told to file a JIRA.
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The problem is real, but it's more puzzling. I set the poll timeout on my side to 10 seconds. That gets me a timeout and re-poll every 10 seconds. But it still takes a full minute to get the EstablishAgentCommunication events. Puzzled. Somewhere server side, there is a 1 minute timer, apparently.
I'm doing something wrong, or a least differently, here.
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Here's some logging info that provides a bit more insight. This is Wednesday evening on Aditi, and times are UTC. Selected log entries from Sharpview. Logged into Morris, standing near the Morris/Ahern/Bonafacio/Dore corner, a place I visit far too often.
Quote06:06:47 [WARN] Region (255232,256256) state change from Idle to Discovered: New
06:06:47 [WARN] Region (255232,256256) state change from Discovered to Connected: Region handshake
06:06:47 [WARN] Region (255232,256256) state change from Connected to SeedCapabilityReceived: Have seed capability from login/teleport
06:06:48 [WARN] Region (255232,256256) state change from SeedCapabilityReceived to CapabilitiesReceived: Capabilities received.
06:06:48 [WARN] Region [Morris] (255232,256256) state change from CapabilitiesReceived to Live: Live
06:06:49 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from Idle to Discovered: New
06:06:49 [WARN] Region (254976,256256) state change from Idle to Discovered: New
06:06:49 [WARN] Region (254976,256512) state change from Idle to Discovered: New
06:06:50 [WARN] Region (254976,256256) state change from Discovered to Connected: Region handshake
06:06:51 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from Discovered to Connected: Region handshake
06:06:51 [WARN] Region (254976,256512) state change from Discovered to Connected: Region handshake
06:06:53 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from Connected to SeedCapabilityReceived: Seed capability from establish agent communication event
06:06:53 [WARN] Region (255232,256512) state change from SeedCapabilityReceived to CapabilitiesReceived: Capabilities received.
06:06:53 [WARN] Region [Ahern] (255232,256512) state change from CapabilitiesReceived to Live: Live
06:07:51 [WARN] Region (254976,256256) state change from Connected to SeedCapabilityReceived: Seed capability from establish agent communication event
06:07:51 [WARN] Region (254976,256256) state change from SeedCapabilityReceived to CapabilitiesReceived: Capabilities received.
06:07:51 [WARN] Region [Bonifacio] (254976,256256) state change from CapabilitiesReceived to Live: Live
06:07:55 [WARN] Region (254976,256512) state change from Connected to SeedCapabilityReceived: Seed capability from establish agent communication event
06:07:55 [WARN] Region (254976,256512) state change from SeedCapabilityReceived to CapabilitiesReceived: Capabilities received.
06:07:55 [WARN] Region [Dore] (254976,256512) state change from CapabilitiesReceived to Live: LiveHere we're seeing the four regions being found by the viewer. They all get found. Morris gets found at login. The other three regions show as Discovered, which means EnableSimulator came in. Each of those regions quickly gets a RegionHandshake, and object updates start pouring in. (They go on an internal hold queue, though, until the region is fully live.) Ahern goes live quickly; 2 seconds after the RegionHandshake, the EstablishAgentCommunication event comes in via the event poller. The region goes live and appears on screen.
But then, for a full minute, Bonafacio and Dore don't show up. They're stuck waiting for their EstablishAgentCommunication events. Note the times above. One minute later, the event poller in Sharpview reports an unexpected EOF on the poll request. Sharpview's poller has a 90 second timeout, so this is presumably a server-side timeout. So Sharpview does another poll, and now the EstablishAgentCommunication events for Dore and Bonafacio regions come in, and those regions quickly appear on screen properly.
So long polling isn't working properly here. With a long poll in progress, an event from the server did not cause an outstanding long poll to complete and quickly return the new event. The poll had to time out first, and the next poll retrieved the event.
Sharpview's polling is very simple - make HTTP request, wait 90 seconds. No libcurl retries. Uses the simplest Rust HTTPS crate: "ureq".
I have more logging info, and can make this happen on request. I've tried this three times. Moving the avatar around Morris near the corner, to force more agent updates, does not change this behavior. One minute delay, every time.
(I wonder if the libcurl retries are what makes this work for other viewers. A retry by the viewer would get the polling process un-stuck. That should not be necessary, but may be why it works in the mainstream viewers.)
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2 hours ago, diamond Marchant said:
being able to purchase only what you need.
Current tier pricing.
Possible "purchase what you need" tier pricing.
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There's Kawaii City. Look in search. This is a very strange place. Kowloon Walled City meets the Russian Mafia, with ruins of Tokyo subway stations. It's a stack of skyboxes connected by elevators and experience teleports. I spent an hour there and I'm still lost. More Blade Runner than kawaii as you get further from the entrance.
Many clubs and bars, nobody there.
They claim to have rentals, but I never found them.
Japanese-themed areas include Hiroba Town in Davros and the stretch along Electra/Burns/Neumogen. Look around; you may find rentals.
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1 hour ago, Lindal Kidd said:
It will always rain and snow inside buildings.
Hm. I wonder if particles could be made to stop at reflection probe objects. Those sort of indicate "outside world ends here". Something to think about after full PBR deployment.
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SmartBots has a good female bodyguard. Follows you around, even through teleports. Looks good. Not too expensive.
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6 minutes ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:
that would be one step in the right direction
There's an initial implementation for the Other Simulator. Haven't tried it. It was at one time associated with an NFT scheme of some kind, back when NFTs were a thing. It's one of those things where you look up the subject and get interesting theory papers, but not success stories.
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9 hours ago, bigmoe Whitfield said:
Only way this will work is if the simulator server image that can be self hosted is locked/encrypted at a hard set level to stop any and all tampering, then it's viable, otherwise, nope, not going for it at all.
There's some work in that area over on the Other Simulator, involving "perceptual hashes", a way to determine if one mesh is very much like another. SL Marketplace could use something like that.
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Can you run with 256m draw distance? That's about as good as it gets for now.
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More dakka at last! The pew-pew crowd likes it. That will get more gamers into SL.
Now this can get an upgrade to a higher and more realistic rate of fire.
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8 hours ago, Zalificent Corvinus said:
the CDN is run by Akami, not AWS.
Akamai server map. Each of those locations has a big cache.
Viewers usually run out of JPEG 2000 decoding compute capacity or local network bandwidth before they hit the limits of the asset server network.
Long avatar rezzing delays, especially after teleports, are a bug. LL has been working on that, and there have been test runs after Tuesday's Server User Group meetings where everyone present teleported to a test region running new simulator code. There, nobody stayed in pink/white cloud mode for more than 2-3 seconds. Things not appearing at all is also a bug. Those are called "interest list" problems. Monty Linden is working on some fixes to the networking level which may help there.
These are not network traffic problems. If you watch network traffic, these bugs show as low traffic levels, not high ones.
LL seems to be working hard on this. The motivator seems to have been a new emphasis on the WelcomeHub and new user retention from Linden Lab management. The WelcomeHub has enough traffic, especially when Motown has an event, to bring out most of those bugs. If new users encounter serious bugs in their first hour, SL looks broken and loses business.
After years of waiting for fixes in this area, there is progress.
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Lost EACs will be resent at a maximum rate of once per 5s but it must be driven by IL activity forwarded from main (Morris). That is where I'd look.
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what is this Secondlive viewer
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
SecondLive seems to be a real thing, an Asian crypto social network. It's classic 2021 crypto metaverse stuff - wallet, coins, mining, play to earn. It's an Android phone app. You can overlay cute little dancing kawaii avatars on phone video of the real world, and share the videos. (YouTube link) It's kind of a mashup of Pokemon Go, Vocaloids, TikTok, casual gaming, and crypto. It's probably a Lose Money Fast scheme on the crypto side, but at least it has cute graphics.
The fake Second Life viewer, on the other hand, is just a low-rent phishing attack to get malware installed.