Tornleaf

I'm pretty curious about the bones used too. My old avatars use volume and attachment point bones and I haven't seen anything like in that pic, after the fix. Grab this and play some of the rotation animations included to see which bones they're using: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Avatar-Testing-and-Visualization-Kit/9842033

Lol London woof. Finally got around to roughing out some wings. Find myself wanting for an extra joint in the wing tip, but I really needed another joint between the shoulder and the elbow, and I wanted the fan bone to be at the wrist. Little stiff, but maybe I can bend things more with careful weighting. 

Tried Gaia's/Matrice's workaround for Avastar, moving bones back into place manually as the transfer tool doesn't work in this case. Was tedious work but I managed, and it APPEARS to have fixed the issues with the lips collapsing and the head scaling and the eyelids (cheers!). With a reset skeleton in-world and no animations, it looks as it should.  The only thing that concerns me is the small shift in all of the bones when storing the joint edits, as mentioned in the tutorial. I can't continue to animate when the joints are offset, even a little. So I suppose I'll wait on a fix for that for now.

As requested I've made a JIRA regarding the collision/volume bone animation glitches with non-Bento rigs on the Bento Viewer. If anyone else has similar issues please comment! https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-37634

Nah, I just didn't have the ears on in that one, heh. Will try to get a file to ya'.

Finally got around to updating my rig. Having the same issues as Teager here, I think, with collapsing lips. Also having issues with eyes for some reason. Mesh has joint positions, no animations playing on it:  Can be fixed with deformer animation (or any facial animation, naturally, since we're translating bones here), foooor the most part, pictured next. Eyeballs are sunken for some reason I cannot discern. I guess because I don't have animation on them as I like to keep the eyedarts/eye tracking. But I'd rather not go with deformation/animation-based fixes here... There a JIRA for this yet?

Honestly this is the reason I've refrained from pouring too much work into my bento avatars. I'm too fearful (ie lazy) to spend hours on something that could change, even at this stage - so kudos to those of you who have tested and tested again!

Oh, yes, I hated using a-point rigging for anything, but thankfully we've got a huge selection now! So I'll be changing up the rig as soon as I can. So long as existing content doesn't break.

I used to have the mesh jitter/jumping with my puppy avatar's blinks. I think we solved it by making sure only one weighted mesh out of the group of weighted meshes (if you happen to be wearing more than one) had joint positions. Though I plan to toss it with an update. With the eye bones being available, you'd have to drag me back to that alpha swapping mess kicking and screaming.

Not sure if this is any help, but my mesh imported with joint positions was super distorted when I deleted (what I thought was) all unnecessary vGroups, or at least groups that weren't being used, like the finger joints, hindlegs, spine, etc. With some trial and error I was able to fix all distortions by making sure at least most (?) vGroups were included in the joint position mesh, even if they weren't being used, though I removed the finger vGroups because of the upload vGroup limit.

Nah it happens to me. Though I haven't paid it much mind, the edit highlight has always been kinda' wonky for me, either hard to pin or jumping around. 

Pretty pumped about this. I have a few projects waiting on this release, as reanimating skeletons, even with one bone off, is a giant pain the ass. Excited in particular about the extra hind limbs.

Kitsune Shan wrote: That animation is pretty awesome. Did you put the bones at the tip of the ears for the smooth bending? Perhaps the same image with visible bones would be very interesting to see and surely would help for LL to see how bones translates. Thanks You're the second person that's asked this which is heartening. The bones are at the base of the ears, but carefully weighting them and putting them at the tip is a good idea.

Here's some super rough weights and animation on a fennec fox I'm making. This is done with translations. There was no way to even close the eyes without translations. Tongue works good, 2 joints is plenty, jaw's fine, used some of the nose and eyebrow bones for whiskers. Glad to have proper ear bones, though I'd love another joint for floppy ears. Does anyone know what the alt eye bones are supposed to be for...? 

Regarding Rand's wolf there, whoa. I've never seen joint positions glitch out like that, at least not on firestorm. But clearly it happens. I'd say that's a solid issue! Linden Labs, if the aim is to make the nonhuman/nondefault avatar makers rely heavily upon naught but the joint positions checkbox, I'd recommend fixing that issue as soon as possible. ! As for undeformer animations, my customers note that snapping back the a-point and volume bones to default female have issues, especially with fitted bodies. (I've got a-point and volume bone undeformed animations, to be clear) I haven't seen too many issues with mBones, yeah, but the formers just have been my experience, personally. They're not terribly major issues, but they're off just enough to vex picky customers. I'll say this is admittedly anecdotal, so I could be off about some things. I could try to make a gif of it maybe. One way or another, I still support keeping translations. Like Teager was saying earlier, I don't see the harm in allowing it and mentioning in the documentation that translated animations without correction could deform the next mesh the user puts on. That way if smoothly swapping vastly different rigs without hitch becomes commonplace and expected from customers, the customers themselves, with their money, can urge creators to have failsafes in place, such as mine and Teager's undeformer scripts/animations, or making sure to export animations without translations. Ideally it'd take care of itself.

I think LL's big issue with translated animations is how it wrecks the rig until relog, and even undeformer animations can never return you back to your original shape. My undeformers just snap you back to the default female, so most people have to relog anyhow. As someone mentioned earlier, if we could find a way to have the rig snap back to its original shape/joint positions offset shape after the animation stops, we could potentially avoid a deformed rig. I don't know how plausible that is though. I'm a cg generalist, not a coder. But if this is indeed what LL is concerned about, I'd urge them to find a way around animations jamming bones after they've finished playing instead of taking them away altogether. As Kitsune was saying about mesh heads with joint positions, it would effect the entire body, and I can see how translated animations could get around that via prorities and selective keys. I like joint positions but in that case I see how it could be troublesome. I think that's worth looking at, as I've seen folk struggle with putting their specific mesh body torsos on joint-positioned mermaid tails and running into issues, which is really too bad.

Haha, that is certainly true for me. I disable and unlock all limits and channels before animating. I'll not be restricted by reality! *twists skull off head*

Just so folk here are 100% clear, and I'll risk being annoying about it if they already are - animated bone translations are not joint positions. Joint positions are the initial altered location of joints in a skeleton enabled on a rigged mesh on upload. Animated bone translations is moving these joints via animation, even if it's just one frame, to act similar to joint positions. Stopping the animation, however, doesn't return the bones to the previous shape/location, in the same manner that joint position does, until relogging. Though, from reading here, apparently popping off a joint positions mesh in some cases with some viewers doesn't always return the shape? I could be wrong about this, but I was told a little while ago that .bvh could be imported with animated bone translations by altering something in the export file itself, and apparently had to have 1 bvh file per bone translation. I think some MLP animations make use of this? Again, I could be misremembering. Just a sidenote.

The original work-around involved wearing a small invisible cube or something that was brought in with joint positions checked, and then wearing the multiple other fitted mesh pieces that didn't come in with joint positions. I didn't know that was fixed. Handy! And yes, ideally, if you move your fitted mesh bones correctly with the proper offset, which is a tedious task (though avastar was working on those bones getting snapped automatically), you can get non-human sliders to work. That is my eventual dream. X)

Cheers, joint positions work for me now, for some reason. :3  Regarding potential lag from extra bones, couldn't be any worse than flipping through a bunch of different meshes/faces to animate a tail. I don't know enough about the .anim format to have an opinion. All I know is that it appears to work, and the bvh doesn't, but I'm sure I'm not utilizing it correctly.

Hm. Still no dice. Control rig snapped to base rig, imported with joint positions, all the normal steps, etc etc. No fitted mesh bones used. Will have to fiddle with it later.

I haven't been able to make the joint positions work correctly yet, though I see Aki has them working, so I must be doing something wrong. The tail in this gif is supposed to be a lot shorter. Joint positions work just fine on the body, still, however. https://gyazo.com/cd50f1944bdc5c478ea576c1788e4286 In any case, I'm pretty pumped about these bones. Ideally, no more animations stalling when multiple a-point animations are playing, no more dealing with translations (however, I do support finding a way for the facial bones to translate without deforming the mesh when avatars switch, somehow!), hopefully my customers will eventually be able to pop my quad avatars on and off without having to logoff to clear the deformations. No mesh swapping for different expressions, and no fiddling with script to tackle that. Free-moving eyes now that I don't have to sacrifice eye attachment points for eyelids. I thought I'd have to wait for sansar for a more extensive rig, but these additions should help out a lot. Lack of translations and having to update rigs and all of the tail/ear/mSkull animations will take a decent junk of time, though. @_@ Additionally, someone said there should be 2 joints in the ears, for floppy ears, and I would agree.