tabletopfreak Toocool
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18 hours ago, Klytyna said:
It's not loading just for them that lags the sim on their arrival, it's the SERVER loading them for EVERYONE ELSE...
The server it's self is an actual machine, it has weight, so many pounds of metal and plastic, and silicon... Do you know that STAT? Didn't think so, can you affect it? Didn't think so, do you ignore it, I Bet you do...
i will clear up one thing for your pea brain, if it took you 20 secs to tp into a new sim.. then the server could work on your tp slower.. not having to jump to the task getting it all done fast and robbing the rest of the sim of basic things , like others being able to walk without rubber banding .. but im sure that went over your head too.. XD your my new fave.. truly enteriant and thinks she's right too.. its like a 3 year old having a temper tantrum .. and that's just bad forum .. you so closed minded and full of yourself .. an awe to behold !
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16 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:
It seems this unfortunate confusion just won't go away. The 300k was 300k KB, and one kilo-KiloByte = one MegaByte, so it wasn't "wrong" exactly, but rather it was using extremely unconventional units.
he gets it, and as to why i used KB, that's what the viewer calls it.. kbs... so i just assumed that what i should call it.. but yeah it could and probably should say mb.. but i guess its cuz kb is more "accurate" being its a smaller unit of measurement but yeah at a certain point it would make more sense to just say mb .. btw its nice that ONE other person here can have an intelligent conversation around here.. its a refreshing sight on the forums ..
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18 hours ago, Klytyna said:
Let's find out...
Yeah that's pretty ignorant...
It's not loading just for them that lags the sim on their arrival, it's the SERVER loading them for EVERYONE ELSE...
The server it's self is an actual machine, it has weight, so many pounds of metal and plastic, and silicon... Do you know that STAT? Didn't think so, can you affect it? Didn't think so, do you ignore it, I Bet you do...
Stat's you can't affect and which won't bother you can generally be ignored, you don't need to know the thicjness of the steel sheet on the hood of a car to be able to drive one...
...being almost completely irrelevant to the subject of dealing with sim lag...
Oh I understand it, you just missed that fact because... You don't read well or listen, because you are...
IF you had actually read other peoples posts, and thought about them you might have remembered that I said...
And earlier in the thread I did mention that this had been increased on the later class 8 servers... Chin also said...
But you would rather listen to...
Yeah he sounds like a really GOOD source of technical information... Some Tech-Illiterate call center operative... Copy/Pasting from a search engine results page...
The word you failed to find is "implied" not "impaired"...
And it's not 500 k or 500 kb, it's 500 MB, so you still got it wrong.
No, I said it WAS 300 MB, not KB... Go back and read it again, I said it more than once in this thread...
''...
Go and read some of his other threads... It's not typos...
blahahaha i would address each "point" but your clearly a drooler.. so.. ill leave you to it.. thanks tho.. the half of it i did read made me smile
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On 11/17/2014 at 10:23 AM, Qie Niangao said:
Some difficult questions here. You ask about memory and particularly script memory, and this can be a significant problem -- but it's much less common than before, so it may be that LL has added physical memory to the sim hosts. (I've heard that they did, but I've not seen that confirmed.) The reason this was such a big deal, back when memory would routinely exhaust, was that it affected all the sims sharing host hardware (so your sim could suffer without being responsible for its own fate) and the effect was extraordinarily non-linear: performance didn't just degrade, it fell off a cliff.
Anyway, for whatever reason, memory just isn't the problem it used to be, so I wouldn't spend much time trying to optimize it for your sim, nor hassling visiting avatars about the memory consumption of their attached scripts (the measurement of which is insanely inaccurate anyway).
Collisions are just events in the sim's physics processing, occasioned by something bumping into something else. For example, an avatar falling from the sky and landing on the ground creates a (particular kind of) collision. This is almost never anything to worry about except in extraordinarily crowded sims (e.g., SL Birthday regions) or those with complex physical scripts (usually vehicles) -- or when attacked by a physics griefer. In fact, the SL physics engine is so robust these days that it takes serious trickery to trigger physics-based lag (which raises the challenge for the griefers, but not insurmountably). Historically, though, collisions were a major problem on even moderately busy sims.
Once an avatar has arrived in a sim, there's very little it can do to affect lag one way or another until it leaves the sim. It's very slightly better if they sit down on something non-physical (regular furniture, poseballs, etc.) because then they won't cause any collisions at all. And they might interact with some script that does something laggy to the sim (rez a ton of physics-enabled prims or something evil), but generally, once they've arrived, they've already done more lag damage than anything they'll do until they leave -- which event also incurs a lot of sim processing.
(So if you think about that, you'll see that the very worst thing you can do is to teleport out an avatar for exceeding some lag measurement threshold without also banning them for a few minutes and telling them in detail what they need to fix before trying to teleport in again. Otherwise you're both annoying the visitor and setting up your region for repeat rounds of expensive rezzing-in and rezzing-out.)
One reason that the rezzing-in and rezzing-out process is so apt to lag a sim is that during those intervals, scripts are being loaded into memory and slotted into the scheduler to run, so this is one time that having a lot of scripts actually matters. (This is also why temp-rezzing scripted objects is a Very Bad Idea.) Otherwise, scripts mostly just split up the scraps of idle time after all other processing is complete, so steady-state they typically have no affect on sim lag at all.
on that note, about tp'ing.. wouldn't it be nice the person doing the tp had to just wait 10-15 secs?? 20 secs?? vs rubber banding everyone else in the sim??..make them wait a bit XD and load them in slower IF that means a better experience for the rest of the sim at least .. when its high time it can get rather annoying.. and for get when your building or modding.. XD rubbing banding textures and what not.. and i hear man about how its not a huge deal.. thats why its the last piece iv zero'd in on.. of course i started with texture size amount of visible textures and script cpu run time .. making sure anything that could be set to none in physics was , and convex hulls where applicable
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On 10/14/2018 at 6:38 AM, Klytyna said:
I did mention, earlier in the thread that script memory for a full sim used to be stated as having a 300 mb limit, way back in the class 5/ class 7 server days...
But apparently, somebody with a proven posting history as a tech-illiterate, who has spoken to an LL Callcenter employee with even less knowledge of SL, is smarter than people like you and me, who have run sims, delagged sims, and been doing this for years.
Go figure...
to think ANY stat is meaningless.. how ignorant can you get .. disregard info you simply don't understand .. that's willingly ignorant .. as i said already , im aware of the list of tips you gave.. its a pretty common list among sim owners .. what i was after was information that was a little less common.. often left out of the convo, out of non understanding .. where's one of your ball gags when we need it?
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On 10/14/2018 at 8:34 AM, Qie Niangao said:
Again, my recollection from the early days of Mono (when running out of memory was a common and crippling problem) is that it wasn't a single sim that was affected, but rather the entire host on which that sim was running. So your region could use very little script memory and still be thrown into deep time dilation when its host started swapping to serve memory demands of another sim on the host.
I don't think we were ever given enough detail about how they virtualized those hosts to know exactly how memory is (or was) allocated among the sims, but I suspect it's just one big pool, just as I suspect a sim is not pinned to a CPU.
Of course all this will shortly be (even more) academic as sims are migrated to the cloud.
the tech guy... told me they each full sim has its own memory.. BUT he also claimed memory was mesures in time and not KB for about 25 mins till i guess someone clued him in .. so who knows..i did know is no place even in his own screenshot showed the word memory measured in anything but KB, and well one time MB.. its was a bazzard convo .. felt like a thread on the forums tbh XD
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On 10/14/2018 at 8:41 AM, ChinRey said:
No, I actually believe it was jsut a typo. Or maybe he thought he saw a decimal point where there wasn't any.
In any case, with that little misunderstanding cleared up, we end up with a nice little tidbit here. It seems when LL increased the memory allocation for scripts, they only went from 300 to 500. I would have expected them to go higher than that if they were going to make any changes at all.
This may explain something I mentioned in another thread (https://community.secondlife.com/forums/topic/32277-best-scripter-tips-and-shortcuts/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-1802683) recently: the task priority system that is supposed to keep scripts from lagging down sims, don't always seem to work. A memory allocation as low as 500 MB could explain that.
Oh well, one new possible lag factor to add to the list then - or rather an old one that was suppsoed to have been fixed but wasn't.
i understand the confusion i said 500k not 500kb .. 500k as in 500,000 .. the kb i thought, was impaired since its a giving that its expressed in kb
and again its just that he said he doesn't see many got over that, its still the high end of normal .. just how have less than 1ms spare script time is rather common.. but far from ideal cuzz you run the risk of 3-4 heavy avis coming in and really slowing things down.. tho i guess someone will come are fight how scripts don't cause lag.. yeah right... well iv seen in just a few months ago, doors world open slow, like painfull slow and huds would no response on time .. i am just shocked that people can't just answer the question and move on.. all i wanted to know what what the normal threshold of total sim script memory usage was.. she did say at one point 300k KB and i would say that's a good number to aim for.. im shocked that a sim EXPERT doesn't understand the need for every inch of over head you can get NO STAT IS IRRELEVANT, THEY ALL MEAN SOMETHING .. no one coming into the sim gives a 2nd thought to what resources they use.. so anything that will help.. i will seek it out and make sure i do whats in my power
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keep ASSuming things.. it really suits you well XD
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2 hours ago, ChinRey said:
That's script memory and it's only a small fraction of the total memory used.
It's far more than that.
Totally empty sandbox, not a single object rezzed anywhere so no scripts running:
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Sandbox where somebody forgot to clean up before they left. Two boxes with unpacker scripts and one pose stand:
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Busy sim that is a bit on the heavy side but still running reasonably well:
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2 hours ago, Klytyna said:
Also, if you think script memory usage for an entire sim should be 500 kilobytes, either the Livechat Buffoons told you rubbish, or you simply didn't LISTEN...
A single avatar's scripts, can run anywhere from 500 KB to several MB, I've seen people rocking 48 MB of script memory on a single fugly tech SL-Fossil avatar (old old hair and shoes).
nope wrong yet again.. your on a roll today.. i didn't say 500kb... duh that would be way low... i said 500k.. as in 500,000.. kb is just implied since.. you know.. that's the metric they measure SCRIPT memory usages in.. of which you have control over IF your the on dropping your items.. and if you are smart enough to check script usages BEFORE you by things.. basically its just about being responsible
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3 hours ago, Klytyna said:
People who ask pointless and irrelevant questions often get dismissed, it's the way of the world...
Asking what the limit is when you a) have NO direct control over usage, and b) when your sim will crash and burn from other causes long before you reach that limit, makes the question largly irrelevant, this was pointed out to the OP 4 years ago, and again to you now.
A largely pointless number... It doesn't have that much effect on sim performance, and as mentioned, a sim will crash and burn from other causes of lag LONG before that number becomes significant.
Let me guess, you asked the tch-illiterate call center buffoons on the Livechat desk... Who basically read old obsolete rubbish off the knowlegebase app they use...
The same buffoons who in 2013 told a questioner there were no such things as different server classes, despite the fact that class 8 servers made up 27% of the grid, with the majority being class 7's, and a few old class 5's...
The same buffoons who told a premium member that using an RLV enabled TPV altered your PC so you could NEVER install or use the official viewer ever again...
The same buffoons who regularly tell people that 'lag' can be cured by simply performing a sim reset (which will have absolutely NO effect on lag caused by bad building practice or the nature and number of objects rezzed)...
...
So, basically, you asked a pointless question, didn't like the answer, and went and asked the very LAST people you should bother with...
And now you think you are a lag-destroying tech-god and a general forum hero for getting a questionable answer to a worthless question, 4 years late...
NOPE he arugded with me for a while ,l sounded as ignorant as you lot here, then finally gave in ans said "i don't normally see sims with moire the 500k in memory usage" meaning most of them are under that.. and thats all i wanted to know.. why you so mad??? XD 500k as in 500,000, ok? god.. you think you know everything hu?
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lets not get in our feelings ,k? this was a good day.. this question that's years old.. no matter how insifiat to you it may seem has been answered.. and if thats know what this thread was started for.. what am i saying.. of course that's what this thread was started for.. to get answers
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6 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
Respectfully........ see my post above. Your original question was not the same as your later questions.
"Memory- What is a healthy number for a sim? What number should be aimed for when keeping a sim lag free?"
vs
respectfully .. i want to know how much memory a full privet region is alloted
i see how that might confuse some people, im sorry for that
in any case the answer wasn't "here's 10 other well know things you can do to help sim lag"
the answer would seem to be about 500k
some of us like to be ahead of the curv , prevent issues before they become issues
while it certainly true textures alone are the biggest "issue" (only an issue if your pc isnt up to it)
EVERY little thing adds up.. so i do my best to get evey little thing in check so that i can have more most detail in my build, while being as efficient as possible .. well "reasonably possible"
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59 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
Seems somebody else got in an answer before I had the chance
/me glares at Klytyna, trying to look very serious and angry, doing her best to suppress the giggling
I can add two things.
First, the memory data you see in the Statistics window is all client side. There's nothng about server side memory there.
Second, no matter how much memory the server has, it will eventually fill up with old garbage data and that can cause serious performance issues. One of the reasons why sims are routinely restarted once a week, is to clear the memory but according to a Linden I talked to, that is not always enough if a sim is heavily loaded,
im talking about the memory number you see in KB listed at parcel details >general>script info
and even so to the point of it will eventually fill up with garbage, it would still be good to know this threshold
as for my question about kb of memory used by scripts on the sim hitting the server , its 500k as a guideline.. basically if your at 600k.. it might not come to a halt.. but its way above average .. not that 500k is average ..i was told they don't see meny sims go over that .. so 500k is already the high end for a full region , and i would assume a homestead would want to keep that even lower .. since the latter gets less cpu.. id assume it gets less memory as well before it gets overloaded
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15 minutes ago, LittleMe Jewell said:
But that is not what you actually requested in your first post - thus why you got the answers that you got.
You asked?
your right.. i did assume you know sim means full region and a homestead is a homestead.. even then .. there is an answer for homesteads(i didnt ask the live support about that tho im guessing it would be about half or maybe like 60% of a full region) and a higher "limit: for a full region which is 500k.. if yours is 600k plus you might wanna look into it.. that's all .. and as for digging up an old thread.. its good.. cuzz now after years of being ignored , its been solved ! woot woot
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50 minutes ago, Klytyna said:
Once, apparently it was 300 mb, but that was back in the days of the old class 5 servers, it was certainly rasied since then, what it may be now, I have no idea...
Not that it matters, as the ONLY way you can affect the memory usage is to...
Pay attention to ther points I made , and which you calmly dismissed...
As analogy, it's like ypou asking how to make sure your car goes when you turn the ignition key, put it in gear and stamp on the 'loud' pedal, and when people tell you to make sure the fuel tank isn't empty, the battery isn't flat, all four tyres are suitably inflated, etc., you sneer and claim you knew all that but still want to know how to make sure your car goes...
that would be a great analogy if i had asked you how to make my sim run smooth.. i was clear and concise in my question , one the OP had asked himself and was dismissed then as well in a very simula fashion .. not that you didn't seem well meaning.. but after a VERY long snarky back and forth with LL staff.. IT SEEMS that while yes.. its not a big deal compared to other factors , there is in fact a high end to memory usage , as it pertains to the memory your scripts on the sim use.. and its 500k.. its not a hard limit .. but a guideline of when memory usage is getting high ... much how you have 22ms or cpu time.. and you COULD use no scripts and just overload on physics.. if you wanted to... BUT there still is a point at which you say.. oh ge.. thats alot of resources just going to physics .. most sims will be around 1ms or less.. that's not a hard limit but its just a guide to say.. if yours is 4ms and your not sure why.. then its high and something is wrong.... in the same way, your total script memory usage should be close to 500k or less .. unless your doing something very specific (not sure what that would be tho).. to be clear .. if yours says .. say 600k+ you MIGHT wanna look into what you could do differently as it pertains to memory usage
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12 minutes ago, ChinRey said:
the less we waste, the more we have to get the useful stuff done.
case in point.. this is why NO MATTER how minor it may be.. having optimized my sim well as is, id like to make sure all areas i can control are optimized.. which is why id like to know how much KB of memory does a full private region get
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1 hour ago, Klytyna said:
A four year old thread resurrected by a necropost...
Forget Sim memory, it's nowhere near the problem it used to be 6-8 years ago.
Forget "Script Memory" as ditto...
Certainly forget the SL-Fossil gibberish "How much does mesh lag", as that was based on an assumption in days of yore by Viewer 1 using idiots, that "mesh is of the devil".
Forget also the "IMO lag is poor people" BS also.
You want a low lag sim...
1. Keep total script count as low as you can
2. NEVER use pathfinding
3. Keep physical set objects on the sim as few as possible
4. Avoid media on a prim and external web databases for your objects where you can to reduce html requests
5. Eliminate as much alpha blend from the build as you can
6. Try and avoid the "too many small overtextured useless items" thing caused by the foolish search for "imersiveness" in RP sims, kitchens in houses do not NEED 20 non functional "Le Cretinset" cooking pans on a rack, each one with it's own slightly different 1024 x 1024 baked texture
7. Never use scripted persistant temp-re-rezzers
8. Don't try to get 50+ avatars on your parcel at once, it's not big and it's not clever.
1 hour ago, Klytyna said:You want a low lag sim...
respectfully .. i want to know how much memory a full privet region is alloted .... im well aware of all the other information that you shared , but im sure someone who didn't know will see it and that's great .. so to anyone els.. the question still stands
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"Memory- What is a healthy number for a sim? What number should be aimed for when keeping a sim lag free?"
also wondering
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ok so its a sometimes they work sometimes they dont work... lol like i relogged and nothing.. i relogged again and they work now.. firestorm bug?
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19 minutes ago, Rolig Loon said:
It all depends on how the information is stored and what the script does when you relog. Normally a script does not reset when there us a region restart or when a scripted object is worn, for example, but it would be very easy to write a script that does that. Without knowing what your arcade scripts are meant to do it is hard to tell whether they are e behaving normally.
just media on prim, no scripts
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i have these arcade games and they work but when i relog the media settings are all blank.. is there like a firestorm bug or something?
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4 minutes ago, Fionalein said:
Sounds like a heck of extra unneccesary work. Just make the vehicle temporary. That way it will vanish after one minute if no one sits or immediatelly after someone unsits. Also saves a lot of script time pollution on the servers. Of course this will need mod rights on your vehicles...
IM me inworld if you want to see mine in action...
they are police cars.. that's why i want them to last for 10 mins.. maybe instead of the limited rez it could be set to only let group or better yet a white list of avis.. as for the 10 mins thing.. cops might even rather 30 mins.. so they can drive out, get out do there thing and not have to be too worried about the car disappearing , as for mod rights, check.. i dont buy no mod items
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thank you for sharing the sim on here