DesperadoReprise

I should point out, not just to the ESLers, that there is a world of difference between poetry and your doggerel. "The queen of diamonds let you down, she was just an empty fable; the queen of hearts you say you never met"

Vivienne Schell wrote: "This one will take more time for us to figure out" Are you sure that you are the CEO of a company which didn´t figure THIS out after 11 years? :matte-motes-sunglasses-3: Ebbe Linden wrote: I'm guessing Does that answer your question, Viv? "maybe tomorrow"

Vivienne Schell wrote: You miss the fact that there is NO content in this new world by default. You miss the fact that it will need more than the few really capable creators who are active in SL right now to fill up the hole in the sand. It took several years to fill Second Life with somwhat acceptable and attractive content - while most of content basics were laid down while Second Life enjoyed an overwhelming international media hype which swept in not only content, but consumers who were willing to buy this content. For the most creators in SL, which mostly were and still are pure hobbyists it took years to learn the tools, to learn the script language and whatever else. Even just participating in content creation and trading of virtual goods in this new world will cost time, energy and money, and i doubt that enthusiasm alone will be enough as a motivation there. It´s easy to wish a world full of shiny new items, but, in fact, there are NONE and there will be by far not enough within the next years to come after the launch. There will be very few items which almost will do what the consumer will want to do, but by far not the bvariety and by far not the wide palette SL has to offer now. It´s IMPOSSIBLE, and that´s why any other attempt by any other company in building something like a "better" Second Life, based on user created content from the scratch miserably failed. And this one will fail as well, my two cents. Perhaps you miss the fact that LL now own all SL content, so they can take anything they want from SL and use it to create create cities and villages in the Sanitised Life world, and build shopping malls there filled with free avatars, clothing, and various other stuff they have converted. Wouldn't that be an offer you couldn't refuse, for $9.95 a month, as long as you registered your name, address, shoe size, and pizza topping preferences with LL? "easy money"

LaskyaClaren wrote: While you are demanding answers, you might slip in whether Sanitised Life will offer free, anonymous membership. If not, they might as well rename it Dodo Life. "ain't it hard when you're all alone in the center ring?" I actually did ask that. And? Maybe I missed the answer . . . "wonder why?"

Summer? I am afraid several of you are demonstrating the worst in global parochialism. It's midwinter in half the world. Here's the choice: the timing suggests it's either because England were eliminated from the World Cup or Ebbe made a huge faux pas in announcing that consumers would be wasting money on purchases made between now and whenever they pull the plug on an increasingly zombified SL. Which do you think it is? As far as it being a one-time effect, you have seen the impact of the "leak" on those enthusiasts who keep current with SL news and are the main consumers. As the word gets around to the casual users, passing trade will gradually disappear until it dwindles away until it is reminiscent of the three antique dealers who were marooned on a desert island with one washed-up Chippendale chair - and who all claimed to be doing good business . . . "watch 'em duelling"

Vivienne Schell wrote: But actually, I am not really worried because i am pretty sure that Brave New Linden World will turn out to be just another Linden "visionary" and conceptional disaster (as so many before) and Second Life will last for a loooong time, either driven by Linden Lab or by someone else. I think the premature announcement of Sanitised Life means that this is now extremely unlikely. "is there going to be anything left?"

Ohjiro Watanabe wrote: Desperado, oh, you ain't getting no younger, Your pain and your hunger, they're drivin' you home. And freedom, oh freedom well, that's just some people talkin' your prison is walking through this world all alone. I'm V2, man, the Reprise! Older, wiser, sadder. "you will never kill the pain"

LaskyaClaren wrote: Why are you bothering with this discussion? You know, as well as I do, that Despeperado doesn't care about the actual state of the law, or, really, about what LL is actually planning to do. This is pure trolling. We have a pretty straight-forward statement from Ebbe that the current rating system will be applied to the new VW. However one wants to twist his words, the absolutely clear burden of his meaning is that this will operate there just as it currently does in SL. I've asked him about the CS, and we'll see if he responds, but at the moment there in no evidence -- zilch, nada, zip -- that they have any plans to "sanitize" the new grid. Now, that may change once the lawyers and marketers get into the act, but the point is that speculation about changes to permissible content is pure supposition. It's all rather irrelevant, anyway: anyone who doesn't believe that there isn't already sexual age play -- and, for that matter, racism -- in SL isn't looking very hard. If there is going to be a change in policy, it is far more likely to be around the currently rather lax enforcement of existing rules, rather than a hard text revision of the ToS and CS. In the meantime, stop feeding the troll! While you are demanding answers, you might slip in whether Sanitised Life will offer free, anonymous membership. If not, they might as well rename it Dodo Life. "ain't it hard when you're all alone in the center ring?"

Coby Foden wrote: DesperadoReprise wrote: Magnus Brody wrote: Although I know your very reason for continually posting here is to annoy anyone you can, it is not only annoying, but also as innacurate as telling me I am more dimwitted than you only because I am Scottish, to continually bang on about Ebbe communicating in English as a Second Language, particularly when your clear inference is that he struggles. I think Ebbe is telling us as much as he can, particualry when it's considered that the developers are only writing the new software now, so I don't see how he can be absolutely definitive about this type of prim or that avatar axis, etc. Just because he's as competent as you apparently are - you have obviously set your standards low enough - doesn't mean that he's fluent, or even that he knows what he's saying. "sinking low-down" This clearly shows that correct spelling in English language does now matter very much. :smileyindifferent: FIFY! But you'll have to look carefully, and admit that a single incorrect letter can completely reverse the meaning of the whole of the text that it applies to. "turned the tables" PS The research was specific to a cadre of individuals who had been taught to read English using a specific "look and say" method; those who had learned English using a letter-orientated approach struggled; French readers struggled even more because of the preponderance of similar word -endings, and those using Arabic and Eastern graphology systems were completely at sea. It demonstrated that once again, English outperformed other languages in being flexible enough to accommodate users of a low-level of competence, albeit at the expense of a certain degree of ambiguity of understanding, while offering experts the ability to present complex concepts in a coherent fashion.

Theresa Tennyson wrote: DesperadoReprise wrote: Drake1 Nightfire wrote: It most certainly is not allowed in the USA. "In the United States, the PROTECT Act of 2003 made significant changes to the law regarding virtual child pornography. Any realistic appearing computer generated depiction that is indistinguishable from a depiction of an actual minor in sexual situations or engaging in sexual acts is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 2252A. Drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and paintings of minors in sexual situations that do not pass the Miller test were made illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 1466A." Yeah, right, and SL has crossed the uncanny valley so avatars are "indistinguishable". Get real, Drake. Or rather, don't. "don't you wonder why?" U.S. Code › Title 18 › Part I › Chapter 71 › § 1466A 18 U.S. Code § 1466A - Obscene visual representations of the sexual abuse of children Current through Pub. L. 113-108. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.) US Code Notes Updates prev | next (a) In General.— Any person who, in a circumstance described in subsection (d), knowingly produces, distributes, receives, or possesses with intent to distribute, a visual depiction of any kind, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that— (1) (A) depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct; and (B) is obscene; or (2) (A) depicts an image that is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in graphic bestiality, sadistic or masochistic abuse, or sexual intercourse, including genital-genital, oral-genital, **bleep**-genital, or oral-**bleep**, whether between persons of the same or opposite sex; and (B) lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value; or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be subject to the penalties provided in section 2252A (b)(1), including the penalties provided for cases involving a prior conviction. As stated, the Miller Test applies Which means that none of the above is necessarily illegal, just a matter of taste. Which varies. As an aside, it's interesting that the US Legislature has the same inability to cope with the concept of "community" as the inhabitants of SL, with the corresponding ambiguity of application of attempted disciplinary measures. "that's a stone-cold fact"

Magnus Brody wrote: DesperadoReprise wrote: Magnus Brody wrote: Although I know your very reason for continually posting here is to annoy anyone you can, it is not only annoying, but also as innacurate as telling me I am more dimwitted than you only because I am Scottish, to continually bang on about Ebbe communicating in English as a Second Language, particularly when your clear inference is that he struggles. I think Ebbe is telling us as much as he can, particualry when it's considered that the developers are only writing the new software now, so I don't see how he can be absolutely definitive about this type of prim or that avatar axis, etc. Just because he's as competent as you apparently are - you have obviously set your standards low enough - doesn't mean that he's fluent, or even that he knows what he's saying. "sinking low-down" He's back from tea break. Fifteen famous thinkers who couldn't spell - you should try a bit of thinking. "Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates. At the first gate, ask yourself, "is it true?" At the second ask, "is it necessary?" At the third gate, "is it kind?"" Total average score < 33% I'm more than happy with a 100% success on the first gate. I will leave the other criteria to the Ladies Who Lunch - of any gender. "don't you wonder why?"

Sy Beck wrote: I have watched this frothing from a distance on Twitter and some respectable blogs and have gone from exasperation to belly laughing at some of the "Sky is falling down" comments. Second Life is archaic in terms of modern VR/Gaming/Sandbox or Entertainment and a great leap forward was needed and trying to jump the chasm with SL attached would have been like trying to jump a chasm in two steps. Anyone who is building in mesh, and if you aren't why not, should have no problem I envisage porting across their products and starting anew. To consumers who feel that they have lost out on items purchased then tough luck, that's progress. Did you all complain to Sony when they ditched VHS for DVDs or was it a case that you couldn't wait to get hold of a DVD player and play on the shiny new toy? And for those who want backward compatibility equally read "future constraint". You sound like a person who upon hearing of the invention of the car would want it fuelled by straw and oats, capable of pulling a buggy and be steered by reins. What does interest me is how are the other VWs going to respond. Will they stay with this tired, worn out model and look like a Stone Age VW when LL's new platform is released or will they compete with LL at the same technological development level on what will be virgin ground with LL having done most of the groundwork and problem solving? Sy, the main problem is not the technical platform for Sanitised Life; it is that creators/vendors are going to be bankrupted prior to any migration because their customers - as they discover that there are no guarantees that anything they purchase from now on will be of any value in a very short time - are going to stop buying. They have already, if several reports are to be believed, and why should they not be. The knock-on effect of this on the existing SL economy will be massive, as will be the consequences for LL's ability to fund the development of Sanitised Life. Any business plan (although somehow I doubt if one exists as yet) would have to be based on the redirection of existing profits from maintenance and V1 enhancement to V2 resources. But the profits, as explained, aren't going to be sustained, and by letting the cat out of the bag this early Ebbe has shot himself in the foot, because the Board are going to have to go running to third parties for money. And who is going to be interested? Nobody has been in the past five years, and every other attempt to offer a "better sl" has been a short-term commercial disaster Of course creators are looking for reassurances that they might be able to bridge the trading gap technically, and many will be doing their utmost to try to bolster market confidence by offering unfounded assurances to customers. I know that SL users are not known for their collective intelligence, but I don't think they are going to be taken in by the tepid and unprepared bluster currently issuing from an obviously disturbed - and apparently isolated - CEO. Bottom line? I don't think SL is going to last long enough to support the development period of Sanitised Life. And the CEO certainly isn't. "all you blood-thirsty bystanders, will you try to find your seats"

Amethyst Jetaime wrote: where i live depicting sex with children is illegal even if adults are the only ones involved, even if its only cartoons or pixels or paint or ink. ANY visual depiction regardless of media used is illegal. Most states in the US have similar laws. Before you shoot your mouth off you should check your facts. Evidence? Preferably which contradicts the PROTECT legislation which, as I have pointed out above, specifically makes such computer animations legal as long as they don't look real. And SL avatars don't look real, however good you might think they are. "the lawmen cleared the people"

Drake1 Nightfire wrote: It most certainly is not allowed in the USA. "In the United States, the PROTECT Act of 2003 made significant changes to the law regarding virtual child pornography. Any realistic appearing computer generated depiction that is indistinguishable from a depiction of an actual minor in sexual situations or engaging in sexual acts is illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 2252A. Drawings, cartoons, sculptures, and paintings of minors in sexual situations that do not pass the Miller test were made illegal under 18 U.S.C. § 1466A." Yeah, right, and SL has crossed the uncanny valley so avatars are "indistinguishable". Get real, Drake. Or rather, don't. "don't you wonder why?"

Magnus Brody wrote: Although I know your very reason for continually posting here is to annoy anyone you can, it is not only annoying, but also as innacurate as telling me I am more dimwitted than you only because I am Scottish, to continually bang on about Ebbe communicating in English as a Second Language, particularly when your clear inference is that he struggles. I think Ebbe is telling us as much as he can, particualry when it's considered that the developers are only writing the new software now, so I don't see how he can be absolutely definitive about this type of prim or that avatar axis, etc. Just because he's as competent as you apparently are - you have obviously set your standards low enough - doesn't mean that he's fluent, or even that he knows what he's saying. "sinking low-down"

Innula Zenovka wrote: I may well be mistaken, but I've not yet seen anything he's said, either here or anywhere else, that suggests to me that the policy on Adult Content in SL2 will be significantly different from what it is in SL1 at the moment. That may change over the next year or so, of course, but I'll worry about that if and when it happens. I sincerely hope that your struthitis is not a terminal affliction. "don't you wonder why sooner or later we all have to die"

It's comforting to see that Nero is still fiddling while Rome burns. (Here's an apropos lyric from a classic tune, Hippie) "we all have to die"

Innula Zenovka wrote: DesperadoReprise wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Of course they don't have any plans to disallow ageplay of the sort you describe. They disallowed it seven or eight years ago, and people don't normally talk about making plans to do something they've already done. But Ebbe has comitted here in these forums very recently that Sanitised Life will allow user freedoms as long as they are legal. And depiction of sexual age-play is not illegal in California, with whose laws LL has to comply. Is he lying, inconsistent, or incompetent? "it's finally turned the tables" What I thought he said -- what you quoted him as saying, anyway -- was "We have no plans to disallow anything that's going on in SL and is legal. We're proud of the freedom we offer. " Age play of the sort you described is already disallowed, and has been for seven or eight years. He doesn't need to plan to ban it, since his predecessors have already banned it, and if it's now going on in SL, it shouldn't be, since it's clearly in contravention of the Terms of Service. I see nothing in what he's said that suggests he intends to prohibit anything that's currently permitted, and neither do I see anything that suggests he intends to permit anything that's currently prohibited. If you're going to nitpick, then I should point out a couple of things: 1. He hasn't said anything at all about Sanitised Life V2 in his statement, merely given an almost content-free confirmation that V1 will be allowed to stagnate as it is. 2. He's an ESLer, and his choice of wording has been overtly suspect in almost all the posts he has made here recently, so I would not rely on fine distinctions of interpretation. "watch 'em"

Gavin Hird wrote: Another view is to design your service so it scales FIFY! (Sorry, I'm dragging technical criticism into a conceptual commercial debate. Although global domination is a bit of a stretch for the limited management capability LL has demonstrated over the last decade.) PS The same would apply to these Lithium hosted forums; we just had almost an hour's outage, with no explanation.

I have been asked by a very close friend of mine to raise the question with Ebbe of whether IP bans will be carried over to the new world. And will they be made more effective? "it's all the same"

Phoebe Avro wrote: Where is the disclosure to the the non English speaking part of the SL? The second largest number of residents in SL come from Germany and many others in SL don't speak English, if this announcement had been delayed a month or two until there were some facts and it was posted on the blog at least those people would have been able to translate it! A German friend spoke to me about this last night she heard about it on some ones facebook page she knew little about whats happened If you don't understand English you don't really matter much to LL. On the bright side, even if you write it badly you can still get a job there. Even as CEO! "that's a stone-cold fact"

Rhys Goode wrote: OMG, its as big a disaster as Microsoft replacing DOS with Windows. And then, on top if it all, abandoning XP! I think it's more akin to MicroPro replacing Wordstar with Wordstar2000. "the queen of diamonds let you down"

Qie Niangao wrote: It may be the cost of doing business globally, but that doesn't make it less silly. "The law is an ass" But it's still the law. "don't you wonder why?"

Gavin Hird wrote: DesperadoReprise wrote: Extending your argument . . . Sex between a muslim woman and a christian man is legal in California, but not in the Sudan. Does this mean that LL has to demand details of users' religions and prevent such congress? To say nothing of the legality of apostasy. "twisted fate" No, but that is why I posted this on the cultural context of such a service previously and because scaling to 100s of millions in a single instance of the service is a pipe dream: There is also a third aspect of this that comes into play when you try to scale up the platform, and that is cultural context. The current SecondLife is primarily set in a Californian cultural context where the legislation of the location "the servers are in" spills over to what is halal and what is haram to use muslim expressions. This is a problem in that very large sections of the world does not necessarily share this cultural context, and that in itself becomes a barrier to entry. We have seen this in Europe in the European app stores where Apple, who is in the same cultural context as LL, have had major clashes with European content providers who are used to expressions in their print media that Apple does not allow in apps traded in their app store. We saw exactly the same with the adult cluster**bleep** that LL introduced where Europeans left in hordes over adult verification that they felt fundamentally stepped on their privacy (and factually where in conflict with privacy legislation inside the European union countries.) So rather than provide one service for the world filled with content "California Dreaming" style (alt b above), the "tool is the journey" alternative can prove to be a much better alternative in that it allows people to create virtual worlds in the frame of their local cultural context and legislation without holding Linden Labs legally accountable for it. By enabling travel between such contexts, like when we go to some exotic place for vacation, it enables virtual travelers to have the same, unfiltered, exotic experiences. Alternative b) can only provide a watered down experience mandated by the legislation of the locale Linden Lab is incorporated in, in addition to what is the current political correct view of the area. So, after sex tourism and health tourism we are now envisaging virtual cultural tourism . . . "sooner or later"

Qie Niangao wrote: Gavin Hird wrote: In a business to consumer offering like Linden Lab's Secondlife is, the TOS is regarded a one way declaration because the consumer, in reality, has no way of changing the terms or renegotiate them. Because of this TOS must satisfy the minimum requirements of the law, in addition they must protect the consumer from casually signing away legal rights. Understand the disastrous consequences of that, if indeed that's how European courts interpret it. If that's how a service such as Second Life must operate, then all content creation will require that the creator "negotiate" a license with the service provider. Now, of course, no serious company "negotiates" anything with millions of suppliers. It may not be a ToS, but it's take-it-or-leave-it. So this would have no practical benefit, only the effect of preventing the offer of any service in which casual creativity could be rewarded without the creators first hiring a lawyer. This does not, however, mean they can be transferred to a new service for storage and rendering in the new service, unless the new service is an upgrade to the existing one (meaning the existing one goes away.) That would be an extraordinarily stupid thing for a court to find, if "both" services are provided under the same ownership, entangling as it does even such innocent and basic service separation as A/B testing. (European courts are shockingly stupid, it's true, but this seems beyond even their incompetence.) Perhaps Ebbe should be planning to restrict access to Sanitised Life to US residents only. And keep out those annoying foreigners from Europe. (See what I did there?) "turned the tables"