RiftRaven

Medhue Simoni wrote: harmony Palmira wrote: hi every one im just new with this in sl i worked on other games making hair meshes with 3ds max . but it seem in sl the story is diff i mean i just upload my 1st hair mesh here but i dont know how to skin it i mean how to attache the hair to other bones like shoulders ..etc any tut help with that . also im asking how the hairs moving in here is this thing i should do in 3ds max or in sl ? Most people are very willing to help, but the problem is generally who has experience in the specific program and/or that creative task. Not as many people make hair, and even less make it in 3ds Max. You can probably use the new skeletons that LL released recently for the Fitted mesh project. Download the skeletons here. I'm pretty sure they should work for you. A good amount of people use Blender to make clothing and hair for SL. I originally learned 3D creation in 3ds Max, but now I'm pretty exclusively using Blender. I also use the Avastar addon for Blender. It comes with the default SL avatar, rigged and all, with a bunch of tools and features that are exclusive to SL. It's generally better to use a tools specifically created for SL, rather than banging your head against a wall trying to get other programs to work, at least in my experience. Avastar is exactly what I would suggest too. Its dae exporter is tweaked to export SL compatible meshes. And Gaia has lots of good video tutorials for rigging. It is a very good investment.

Lexi Zelin wrote: Here's my question, I have submitted most of my oiginal mesh creations to the United States Library of Congess. I have done this every month for the past 2 years. It's NOT CHEAP. But, I feel it is worth it. Now, when you do this it's like a second level of protection for your creation. So, how on EARTH Linden Lab can think that they OWN rights to MY art is beyond me. Would they be prepared to go to court against me and the USLOC? Who would win? Also, another question is, if LL thinks they own our shi* then how are "we" able to file a DMCA against people misusing our stuff if our stuff is "owned by LL"? None of this shi* makes any sense to me, personally I feel like Linden Lab has done everything they possibly can to fu*k over creators and make more profits for themselves. As for this Peter Gray letter..... WHAT?! .... If I wanted to sell my shi* on another platform "I" would, why does that call for this tos change? That has nothing to do with it... I sell alot of my sl items on Turbosquid and plan on selling items on renderosity soon aswell not to mention some of my SL creations may be used by Gamersfirst soon aswell. But, since LL owns my shi* would that then give them the right to file against me? .... Im usually one of the creators with the biggest mouth and I haven't chimed in on this issue just because SL is my rl job and there's not a damn thing I can do to change that right now. So, I've kept my head in the sand about most of this but now sitting here really reading this tos.... I'm like WOW... My husband is a business major and he read it with me and is basically saying that I need to leave sl and do something else if I care anything about my creations... He also says it sounds like LL is preparing for a big hell storm but LL wouldn't close SL it makes too much money right? PHILIP ROSEDALE WHY DID U LEAVE ME!!!! :< We need Phil back, he was a coniving little **bleep** at times but I just don't see him doing this to the creators of SL..... Sorry if any of this sounds stupid or whatever cause I REALLY am confused here Also, now, if you transfer out your lindens up to $20,000 LL will send you a W9? ummm when did they tell us about this!? THEY DIDN'T. A big name mesh creator brought this to our attention yesterday and im just so confused... LL what are you doing!? Cause I really feel you are planning for a bigggggggg fu*k us over fest.... When people mess with your livelihood, and don't express they feel the need to explain themselves, it conveys a PROFOUND feeling of DISRESPECT. I thought an established brand like yours would contribute to the community here, and often wondered if you would express your opinion one day. Lots of people feel that way, how can they not. People make a living at the SL Market Place and LL is making everyone feel like they are pulling their magic rug, out from under their feet mid flight. I don't have a business here but I was working on a mesh product for 2 months and just as I was gonna rig it, and upload it, the TOS shyeit bag hit the fan and I have been PISSED ever since. :smileysad: I hope other people are motivated to voice their opinion cause this affects everyone.

Thank you for clearing that up. I supposed it upset me to the point of needing to acknowledge your post. Given that I tried to be respectful and polite, in our mesh conversation, It took me completely by surprise, although I admit I was a bit frustrated. My upbringing prevented me from simply ignoring it. But considering just how much apologizing I had finished doing, It seemed to rub me the wrong way. Again I don't mind apologizing specially when I am wrong. I had nothing but respect, after our mesh conversation, and that has rightfully been restored. No harm really, I was reluctant over being involved in more drama, so making my previous post was a bit of a hard decision. Just a simple misunderstanding, it happens. Please except my latest apology and well... a digital hand shake. Would you like "Paper" or "Plastic" with those apologies sir? lol

Qie Niangao wrote: It took a little over twelve hours for Bryn's blog post to get the obligatory spam from an unwitting shill an artist operating in Another Virtual World. Wonder what took them so long. And the ToS issue as a whole has now reached critical mass for crazies. That, too, was predictable. Taking cheap shots at someone, even after they apologized, several times. This isn't what you would consider "Obligatory Spam"?. I apologized more than I was comfortable with, went back and fixed my mistake. For such an eloquent speaker, looks like your self-restraint doesn't share the same eloquence. I wonder if you would be willing to do the same, and fix your posting mistake. "Kind Sir".

Dillon Levenque wrote: I somehow missed the post in which you agreed the 'masses' comment was wrong. The only thing I saw was your reply to me: "I too appreciate someone pointing out the idiocy of RiftRavens's post, Thank You! Ohh! Looks like he caught on to what people were saying cause he edited his post! I've heard his idiocy knows no bounds. Oh my! lol", which did not seem apologetic. I have since seen the post I missed; had I seen it first I would not have written my reply to Phil. The problem with these forums is that they post replys in the wrong order. I had not stopped to realize that at the time of that writing. I wrote that because I was being defensive, thats what I do when I believe someone is being unfairly harsh to me. But I apologize for that too. The real problem is that unfair, current TOS. P.S. Lessons learned: Write less obvious idiocy. lol Whether you casualy post or not, your voice always matters to someone.

Madelaine McMasters wrote: If we think of idiocy as a relative term, somewhere like three sigmas below the mean, then blindly accepting license terms and terms of service wouldn't qualify. Most of us do it. We can't all be three sigmas below the mean! And the error that Riftraven made has been acknowledged and corrected. So he's no longer an idiot, he's an ex-idiot. But, like all of us, he's still a potential idiot. Let's hear it for untapped human potential! ;-) Thank you... I think. :smileyvery-happy:

Dillon Levenque wrote: No, I don't. I mean the kind of idiocy where someone claims that 'the masses' of Second Life will be swayed by the opinion of one important person or a group of important persons. I did apologize. I went back and corrected it to more accurately reflect what I was wanting to say. Idiotic? Yes! Totally! I did also state that I wasn't a seasoned writer, so I don't have an absolute understanding of the english language. I often go back several times to edit a post, so that it conveys what I'm trying to say, and even then it still doesn't say what I want it to say. But I was puzzled why you would say that, it sort of seemed like a personal attack, even after I had apologized. Even after having admitted, I was wrong in doing so. It would be nice if it was like that with Linden Lab too, wouldn't it. "The people who do idiotic things" (not my words). Idiocy has been the story of my life, and making light of situations my sort of survival mechanism, so I didn't mean anything about what I later posted. Sorry if my idiocy has no place here. I did also mention I would be more careful of my future posts. What can I do, but live and learn. P.S. I've made a fool of myself a countless number of times, but I'm not gonna cash in my chips and become a hopeless schmoe because ot that.

I was just teasin with that, I'm a joker and... highly educated in the delicate art of idiocy. lol I used to eat some of that cheese, they used to give them away at the local FireStation, where I lived. Kinda have some fond memories of that actualy. There were so many happy people there. :smileyhappy: But it dosen't mean I'm ghetto or anything. :smileylol: P.S. "Block of Joy" Exactly. lol

Dillon Levenque wrote: Thank you. The idea that anyone, or any one group of like-minded people, can 'sway the masses' in Second Life is ludicrous. I noticed when I last logged in that more than 49,500 other people were online. Of those, I'd guess some number that would fall way below the number after the comma cares about (or even knows the meaning of) the new TOS. I do not mean to say this TOS change doesn't matter to those who use SL as a both a creation platform and a source of income. To those people it matters, and might matter a great deal. I don't know the answers to all of this and I won't until it's all been shaken out and explained to me in words of no more than four syllables. I do mean to say I appreciate you pointing out the idiocy of RiftRaven's statement about 'the masses'. You mean the kind of idiocy where everyone carelessly clicks a Draconian Terms Of Service, agreement box, without carefully reading it, and then ONLY when a supplier of 3rd party Textures reads it for them, everyone starts to worry? Right. That kind of idiocy. @Madelaine McMasters Yes it is! :smileyhappy:

Dillon Levenque wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: RiftRaven wrote: Every "Major" Player in Second Life is moving out, because of the new TOS. Players that had significant pull to sway the masses. And you know this how? For one thing there isn't any SL user who has "significant pull to sway the masses". And for another, who is a major player? The biggest of all is Anshe but she can't sway the masses, not even by pulling out. I suggest that what you perceive as "every major player" is nothing but a relatively few people who have either pulled out or have expressed an intention to pull out. I also suggest that those who go are not major players, simply because they don't make very much RL money from SL. Why do I suggest that? Because anyone who is making good RL money form SL would be really silly to cut it off on principle. The odd one or two may, and I even doubt that, but not many. We simply don't know why LL has changed the ToS to what it is now. All we have are theories and thoughts. It may be that nothing will change other than the ToS, so anyone who makes plenty of RL money from SL would be very foolish to pull out and cut the money off, merely on the strength of theories and thoughts or principle. Therefore, I don't accept that " Every "Major" Player in Second Life is moving out, because of the new TOS. " Thank you. The idea that anyone, or any one group of like-minded people, can 'sway the masses' in Second Life is ludicrous. I noticed when I last logged in that more than 49,500 other people were online. Of those, I'd guess some number that would fall way below the number after the comma cares about (or even knows the meaning of) the new TOS. I do not mean to say this TOS change doesn't matter to those who use SL as a both a creation platform and a source of income. To those people it matters, and might matter a great deal. I don't know the answers to all of this and I won't until it's all been shaken out and explained to me in words of no more than four syllables. I do mean to say I appreciate you pointing out the idiocy of RiftRaven's statement about 'the masses'. I too appreciate someone pointing out the idiocy of RiftRavens's post, Thank You! Ohh! Looks like he caught on to what people were saying cause he edited his post! I've heard his idiocy knows no bounds. Oh my! lol

Ceka Cianci wrote: really i am tired of trying to figure them out.. i never seen so much muddy freaking water in my life with a company.. i mean seriously.. they suck..i mean like government cheese suck!! lol So I edited my freaktarted FAIL!!! post to hopefully convey what I actually meant. Once again I apologize, and I'll try to be more careful of my postings. I'm not a seasoned writer, that should explain alot. Also I'm new to Second Life, and apparently my idea of a major player was something else. Girl you just let yourself out of the "Ghetto Closet" with that govement cheese comment! :smileyvery-happy: lol And yeah Linden Lab is looking pretty bad right about now.

Anaiya Arnold wrote: All that is true but it wasn't the point I was driving at. These models might be inefficient and no doubt some people at LL know that, but can they convince the people who make decisions? If Rod thinks he can revolutionize LL's business model, get rid of the pesky SLers by producing a new revenue stream based on existing uploads, and increase total profits at the same time, is he going to want to hear "you can't do that because no one will want to buy such inefficient mesh for their projects" from those members of LL staff who have the technical eptitude to tell him this? Is it a message he will be receptive to? I don't think he's the kind of guy that makes a habit of listening to, "You can't do that" which is likely the mentality that got him this, and previous lucrative positions. I also don't think any of his employees would be foolish enough to say something like that to his face, assuming they took the time to readup on who was gonna be their new boss. Receptive to it? No, not if that's the business model he sets out to implement. I do wonder If he's staying so quiet, because everything is playing out according to plan. Out with the Old, and In with the new. Every "Major" Player in Second Life is moving out, because of the new TOS. Players that had significant pull to sway the masses. Some Highly Regarded Second Life residents are leaving, residents with enough respect to cause a good amount of concern, over their departure. seems to be causing (I imagine in the eyes of the instigator of this plan) a purge of "bad blood". If you purge the soul of Second Life, then you have a body to have your way with however you like. At this point even if the TOS was reverted back to how it was (sadly I don't think it will be) I'm pretty much heartbroken by the lack of sympathy, in LL of the damage this is causing. I don't plan on selling my work in SL, I'll probably visit some nice looking worlds, when I get a better VideoCard, but business here no. EDIT: The crossed out sentence was lazy. I apologize. The sentence in green, should convey, what I actualy meant. I know I admit, it was really off. FAIL!!! >>> :smileysad: ... :smileyvery-happy:

Alicia Sautereau wrote: Not much to say about the ToS besides trying to find a hole in it, it ultimately depends on a few people who are or have an attorney to nitpick all the possible twists that can be found to nullify it and report back to the community. I think the biggest hole is the deceitful way in which LL got everyone to agree. Small strategic changes to the TOS so people would just get used to clicking ok, then BAMM!! They dropped the current TOS bomb on us and everyone happily bit into a grenade disguised as an apple. But what really irks me is how quiet LL continues to stay.

Czari Zenovka wrote: My pet peeve is "Linden Labs" especially said by people saying how long they have been in SL. I "appropriated" the lightning/logo from someone on General Forums, with her permission. Dang! Thank you for reminding me that I still need to watch the "Once Upon a Time" premiere. With the ship heading out to Never-Never land mermaids would fit right in. What I'm still not getting is Peter Pan (I'm assuming that's the archetype being used) as a dark shadow figure perplexes me; unless the show is just going with a darker version overall. In the last show prior to the premiere I almost felt "good" about Mr. Gold/Rumple and his tenderness toward Belle. I wrote "Linden Labs" instead of "Linden Lab" on purpose hoping you would pounce with a Thunder and Lighting correction. :smileyvery-happy: But I feel like such a butthead cause it completely slipped my mind that when I mentioned "Mermaids" it was a bit of a spoiler for those who had not seen it. :smileysad: I feel like I should say something about the TOS. But not sure what to say, other than I'm hoping this Second Life "Great Depression" is soon over with.

Trinity Yazimoto wrote: i hope ive been more clear, but not sure... Maybe Perrie or Phil who knows what im meaning bec we already have talked about that can rephrase in english more clearly. Thats really frustrating for me to not being able to express myself correctly on such topic. Sorry. Yes! You were very clear. :smileyhappy: Mesh making is complex, that is true. But I have seen some good textures that would make even me scratch my head, on how to even begin to start making a texture that complex. For the people who claim that making mesh is where the real talent is, that seems like a sort of superiority complex. Both Mesh making and Texturing require equal amounts of talent, and passionate, dedicated people. You cant have one without the other. Mesh is from Mars and Texturing is from Venus. :smileyvery-happy: lol

Czari Zenovka wrote: Chic Aeon wrote: I am still not uploading. Whatever reasoning behind the TOS it was a BIG slap in the face and has hurt many people that work in SL and RL in crossover roles -- let alone the rest of us. *Pulls up a chair next to Chic and Rift in the "not uploading camp." I'm a teeny fish in the huge ocean as a SL content creator, but I do have a voice (and a profile to place my protest within, and people with whom I can *share* the news). * Sure. Pull up a chair. I'm just waiting hoping for change, looks like most of what needs to be said about the situation has been said already. "I'm a teeny fish in the huge ocean as a SL content creator, but I do have a voice." Well I preffer the term "engineer" but you know "tomatoes" "tomatos". lol P.S. Love your Linden Labs work, with thunder and lightning by the way, funny stuff! :smileyvery-happy: Oh and the Once Upon a Time premiere was pretty awesome. "Look! Mean Girl Mermaids!" I said. lol It does look pretty sweet in 1080i everytime I see it.

I'm in this camp too. It makes sense if you think about the risk they were willing to take. I've read the part of the TOS, relevant to it being retroactive and it does sound that way.

Qie Niangao wrote: I suppose if I invested nine years learning to model I too might think it important. I give up. :smileysad: Qie Niangao, thank you for being so calm in your responses. Good luck. :smileyhappy:

Toysoldier Thor wrote: It would be unfair to label Drake1 as a Troll. His postings do not fit the definition. He has a different educated perspective of this issue and his posts are providing content into the topic that can be considered for debate. A Troll is one that posts with the pure intent to emotionally inflame others by using insulting content that presents "ZERO" value to the actual discussion. This was the case in the TOS thread on the ART forum where some basically said... "Good riddance. Second Life needs less junk makers." to the artist/creator community. I understand Drake's opinions... I dont agree with his approach on how the situation should be resolved. His is more "passive / reactionary" and others are more "aggressive / proactive". I don't appreciate being called human junk. At all. :smileyvery-happy:

Toysoldier Thor wrote: Hey Rodvik..... Related to my last posting.... If you are really nervous on how you are going to explain to your Corp Board members that your new business model for Desura was based on getting critical content that LL would hi-jack from the SL Content Creators, let me provide you a solution to keep your business model more viable (so you dont have to tell the board that your idea has a major flaw)..... Why don't you consider OPEN NEGOTIATIONS with all the SecondLife Content Creators.... offer thing a VALUE PROPOSITION to be actually a willing and engaging partner to your new Desura Indie Game Developer business model. Develop an OPT-IN Content Licensing model for all SL Content Creators whereby LL will compesate / pay us content creators for LL to be ALLOWED to offer our content to these Game Developers? Us content creators would have to meet certain criteria - i.e. it is our IP and not a license from another external IP owner. We would have to agree to what ever terms set up for our content to be transferred into the Desura platform. AND, LL would develop fair compensation to all us participating content creators. How is that for a radical idea Rodvik..... Ask Us To Participate.... Set Up The Terms To Participate.... and Pay Us Fairly To Participate. This sounds like a fair Propositon to me. I would be willing to build for desura. People would have a chance at building, properly made content for Video Game Engines. Further educating Second Life residents, in proper building practices.

"I have to ask that you do the same. Everything of which you speak is but a tiny sliver of the original SL vision." With all due respect it is not, the rules for good building practices existed long before, Second Life, or Linden Lab. Its even on Linden Labs Wiki page for good building practices. I have spent, going on 9 years learning how to properly build 3D models, its so far from limiting myself it's not even funny. Are you saying I'm limiting myself by not considering using sculpties to build in SL? Why would I use a pen or a pencil to paint the monalisa when I have tought myself how to use the finest oil pastels for the last eight years. "Objects, however and wherever they're made, are just the backdrop, the stage set of SL." Somehow the point keeps getting missed, that whatever, or how special Second Life is, it still needs to run on modern computer hardware, and not everyone can afford a fast computer. To make things worse, less and less people are using computers and now are moving to mobile devices, phones & tablets with less capable hardware. So again good building practices are even more important today. RENDERING EFFICIENCY is the name of the game. Again I should make this point. I am not saying do not use sculpties, I'm only saying do not abuse them. "It's nice to be able to make convincing and pretty sets, and it's best when the sets don't come crashing down around the actors, but don't confuse the stage manager role with that of director." I'm not confusing either, I am being an advisor in proper building practice, coming from 8 years experience. I'm minfull of how diverse the hardware of SL userbase is, and the burden that bad building pratices places on them. "The problem with Mesh" There has not been a problem with mesh not since the dawn of time when dinosours first started texting and sexting eachother with tablets made of bedrock, and not now. There is no problem with mesh. Finito, Done. "or, anyway, my main problem with it." There does seem to be a global misunderstanding, of mesh. My theory is SL residents, let their romanticised notions of what Second Life is blind them of how valuable mesh is. "My main problem with it -- is not that it's only created out-world (although I do think that's a very serious problem for LL's business), but rather that the resulting." It is not a serious problem for LL at all because it is a constant source of upload charges. Since the dawn of time again yes "dinosaurs" have been creating 3D models out-world and importing them into a 3D Rendering Engines. The way LL implemented objects that are convinient to build with, came with a horrible cost in rendering efficiency. "Mesh objects are so limited in interactivity compared to every other build type." Mesh is the "Holy grail" of build types. The most effective at rendering efficiency. Its not about interactivity with "Mesh" its about rendering efficiency. Rendering efficiency has been the name of the game since the dawn of time, when yes "dinosours" got toghether and said "Hey wanna play a game?" "Yeah, sure! What's it called!", "Rendering efficiency!", "Awesome!!!" lol. Again I make this point, how much interactivity do you really need with objects that are best suited for mesh >>>> Buildings, walkways, cars, fences, trees, cups. "Blinded by confirmation bias, the folks responsible will never learn what they did wrong." It's a bit ironic you mention this, but I do agree with you there. "But as a direct result, this Second Life will never realize its potential." Second life or any other virtual world will never be limited by "Mesh" or a build type, but only by the "USERS" reluctance in their open mindedness, progress, and acceptance of sound, and established advice. So at this point, I'm wondering if I'm suited as a teacher at all, judging by my frustration as a Makeshift substitute "Mesh" teacher lol. Qie Niangao, you are a very passionate person, and you seem to have an admirable love towards Second Life, I respect that. I wouldn't be here if I didn't think Second Life was pretty special to. Every technical ivovation we see today came from passionate people. But please understand that my sound advice was well established long before Second Life, and if its not put into practice, Second Life will continue to lag, and SL residents will experience slow rendering sessions.

Anaiya Arnold wrote: You might know a lot about mesh and since you say you do, I am sure you do. LL might know a lot about mesh,and if they say they do, who only knows if they really do? Probably not LL. Someone working at LL might know what you know, but can that be effectively communicated to the people making decisions if they are hot for some idea that requires the opposite be true? Is this insurmountable barrier is an idea that Rodvik can be made to accept if he suddenly thinks he is going to get credit for revolutionizing LL's business model, expanding its revenue stream while improving margins/return, and finally getting rid of all those pesky SL users the Lab has wanted shut of for years now (if only someone else could be made to pay their bills)? Who knows? LL is often seems so directionless and aimless that perhaps even they cannot guess what wild random antics they will pull next or which elusive rabbit they will try to chase down. They were going to be the next facebook or something for avatars the other week (well other year but sometimes all these antics seem to just flow into one singularity of antics happening everywhere at once). Now they are Desura? Remember the story telling software? Me neither. I don't think they even finished that project. I think I see what your saying. That if it dosent't benefit the lab then they won't expedite it, won't care to listen and wont't, implement it. Specialy when they have bigger fish to fry. A perfect example is the Parametric Deformer. I have two theories, and aren't claiming any of these to be true. And I hope the Powers that be have mercy on my post. But the first is 3D engines are tricky and have their quirks, and implimenting it, might actually cause more harm than, good. Hence lag other unexpected issues, with animations. And the second is it has no benefit to the Lab. Implementing the Deformer would cause people to stop uploading multiple meshes, because one size would fit all. Less mesh uploads, less charges. What did the introduction of mesh introduce? An abundace of Mesh uploads. More charges. What did the introduction of Materials introduce? An abundace of texture uploads. More charges. It is benifiting us... right?

Qie Niangao wrote: RiftRaven wrote: The most horrific Second Life feature that still causes me to cry mysef to sleep at night LOL are "Sculpties". Just about the worst offender of unoptimized content creation, created in a desperate attempt at a better "Mesh" creation system, without importing foreign geometry. A word in defense of sculpties. Well, not entirely, because I agree that they're just absurdly inefficient, from a basic 3D modelling standpoint, but SL isn't solely about 3D modelling. In fact, to some of us, 3D models are a sort of background noise, the epiphenomena of Second Life, existing just to have a place in which to put interactive scripts. And for some of us who feel that way, the introduction of Mesh is the absolute nadir of Second Life content creation, inasmuch as Mesh violates the cardinal rule of SL objects, that any object can be transmogrified into any other object, under script control. Any hunk of Mesh, instead, is forever doomed to be nothing more than the Mesh it was originally. Sculpties, however, are not nerfed in this way. It didn't need to be this way, of course. It was just a disastrous design decision, and only one of many in SL's implementation history, but one that demonstrates just how far the platform has drifted from its original vision, toward the crippled gaming model. A pity. I'm sorry this is of topic but I had to respond to this. There are no cardinal rules, only good building practices. Practices that were established years before Second Life existed. The sculptie has its place, and its usefull, and a marvel to use I agree. But the Sculptie is the absolute Nadir of good building practices. "I agree that they're just absurdly inefficient, from a basic 3D modelling standpoint, but SL isn't solely about 3D modelling." Not just a basic 3D modelling standpoint but more importantly RENDERING EFFICIENCY. SL is not just about 3D modeling, that was not the point I was trying to convey. The point was RENDERING EFFICINECY. The whole point is to build responsibly hence "good building practices" so that a burden of rendering cost is not placed on other peoples hardware, people that would come to Second Life and would find a lag free enviroment (by good building practices) and then decided they like experience, and even better decided to buy all your wonderfull products on the marketplace, and everyone is happy. "Mesh violates the cardinal rule of SL objects, that any object can be transmogrified into any other object, under script control. Any hunk of Mesh, instead, is forever doomed to be nothing more than the Mesh it was originally." This kind of thinking (sigh) :smileysad: ... ... ... I am still thinking right now on how this kind of thinking, has a place, in building proper 3D eviroments. Buildings, walkways, cars, fences, trees, cups... Are these objects supposed to transmogrify into other objects at a certain point. Because these are perfect objects for mesh. "It didn't need to be this way, of course. It was just a disastrous design decision, and only one of many in SL's implementation history, but one that demonstrates just how far the platform has drifted from its original vision, toward the crippled gaming model. A pity" Mesh was brought in to aleveiate certain building headaches. So that people wouldnt build freaking 500 prim P@&!$$!$ lol or other objects that would be considered the obominations of good building practices. Ok Blender is a litte, phunky, and intimidating, but you can always try, Shade 3d. Shade 3d is free too, and the interface is much more welcoming. People are using it to develop for Unity. It can be used to create mesh for SL too. I know right now it seems bad, but I have faith, in the current protest, and things will change. A few last thoughts. Just hear me out. If you take baby steps to learn how to build mesh. It becomes fun at a certain point. That will open up other doors for extra income. You don't have to leave SL thats not what I'm saying. There are other worlds, and services were your mesh making skill will be usefull. The first store I stumbled onto in Second life was AngelRed Coutures, and have been a fan of her style, eversince and have admired her extrodinary skills as a mesh maker. Then I stumbled onto Chic Aeon, who is just the happiest, spunkiest mesh making machine! Those are just two, SL residents among the many, that I admire in Second Life. All I ask is to not limit yourself, with the doors you choose to open when creating for SL. Your biggest obsticle is you.

Alicia Sautereau wrote: and there is the loophole, original creator can sue LL directly instead of going the dmca way. The tos works one way or the other, but not both To be honest, I`m thinking to contact a few giant companies again that ignored my findings of infringement, maybe going after a tiny little fish wasn`t worth the effort, but now that the content is owned by a big company the game changes. Phoebe Avro wrote: So LL now own all the ripped Skyrim content on the MP ^^ i am sure Bethesda would be interested in that, now there is some one worth taking to court for compensation! I hope LL have plenty of staff to start policing the content in SL and on the MP! Oh wow! I had not thought about this. I am LOOOVING! the double edged Sword you guys have just forged for Linden Lab. Well played!

Qie Niangao Wrote: The thing is, the very same applies to other proposed explanations for the change. (E.g., were they to "sell content on Desura" they'd first have to filter it for having no in-world representation -- perhaps by some other creator -- prior to the ToS change. Good luck getting that right.) For me to take seriously any explanation, it would have to make sense despite the intractable complexity of different licenses applying to different subsets of Second Life content, of tangled IP provenance going back a decade. So far, the only theory I've seen that satisfies this criterion is the Lazy Lawyer Hypothesis -- a theory wholly supported by my experience with attorneys. People should just forget the idea of Linden Lab selling User created content on Desura. I've been teaching my self "Mesh" 3D Modeling since 2005. I'm an expert, I know mesh intimately, and every visual trick you can apply to it like Normal Maps and how to bake them to perfection. I've been shaking my head at the unoptimized and clulessly created content for years! Cluless in how terribly unoptimized it is for 3d game rendering engines, but very talented in making it look pretty. The most horrific Second Life feature that still causes me to cry mysef to sleep at night LOL are "Sculpties". Just about the worst offender of unoptimized content creation, created in a desperate attempt at a better "Mesh" creation system, without importing foreign geometry. My point is, I think game developers who are privy to my skill set in "Mesh" making, would run faster than the RoadRunner at even the slightest glimpse ot Second Life, content. Again don't get me wrong I'm a content creator, and I sypathise with Second Life content creators, and the stuff you see in Second Life is admired by me very much so, just some of the most amazing creations, but just thinking about how it performs in a rendering engine makes me cringe. And the only way for these (highly detailed "Mesh" objects) to perform well in a 3D Game Engine was if a creator, created first a High resolution object, then baked the normals to a Lower resolution version, which is the standard workflow. I know that wasn't the case, because there were no normal maps implimented yet, and I saw these objects over and over. That's why I waited untill now to become a Merchant in Second Life, but then LL pulled another >>> "LOL" lol and ruined all my plans, and to make it worse, even if I ignored the TOS (when, hell's, hell frezzes over) who's gonna buy my stuff, lately. I spent I'm guessing now 2 and a half months on what I was hoping would the mesh avatar standard, I was gonna sell a phenominal development kit fot it too, but now who's gonna want to develop for it, NO ONE. Thanks for taking all my work and flushing it down the crapper LL!!! So getting to the whole point of this, what is LL gonna really make selling stuff on Desura, thats if they sell anything at all, while risking a lynching from SL residents, all while taking the Nickels and Dimes they'll be making from selling SL content on Desura, just to settle Law Suits. No no no nooo, they wanna sell the WHOLE ENCHILADA! lol, Second Life reached it's terrible two's years ago and stayed there, and the parents have had about all they can take so now there looking to sell their baby. P.S. "If your such a "Mesh" expert RiftRaven, why aren't you developing for a videogame company?" Well that was the plan. I live in ____ __, Has anyone heard of "____" they were based here in ____ ___ just a couple miles away from were I live. They developed the two expansions to _____.. and the Nuclear Powered Crap generator that was _____ Yeah they filed for bankruptcy back in May of this year and went up in smoke along with my Dreams of working for them. (somber kicking a pebble) Yeah.