EmilyJane OHare

" I'm only thinking of protection for both child avatars and other residents. Protection against what, exactly? An adult pretending to be a child not having to see adult things? You're roleplaying as a child in an adult virtual world. The responsibilty is on you, not the rest of us to cater to your ageplay." Against being hoodwinked into having their avatar in a places where they could be falsely accused of or AR'd for inappropriate activity, that's what. Adult "parents" on SL as well as their SL children could be hoodwinked into thinking that they could have a family day out and visit stores with the "SAFE" sign, only to be AR'd for being in a place where inappropriate material/activities are present. That's what. That, though, is not my primary point here. As some have gathered, I am NOT complaining about the material inside the store. I AM questioning the use of the "SAFE" sign, which is meant to indicate a place where people can go and feel that it is unlikely to come in contact with Adult material or avatars that are using it. "If you can't live with it, stop being a child/parent/busybody and play a furry to experience beastiality or a Gorean to experience slavery and mysogony instead. Much more wholesome and acceptable communities compared to an SL child being in the same region as a pose ball. >.> Yeh, this whole "omg, think of the children, sex beds in the zone" rubbish annoys me no end." Yeah, and this "your opinion and concerns are invalid because I don't agree with them" rubbish annoys me no end. I ask a simple question and get the third degree. It was the sign and the note card inside it that I was asking about, whether it was officially sanctioned and whether people thought that it had been used in an inappropriate way on this occasion. A simple "no it wasn't" followed by an explanation why would suffice. Some have been very helpful in explaining the fact that it isn't official but was set up as a way that places who want child avatars on their property can assure users that they will be safe there and that if they are abused whilst there the owner will endeavour to take action. That's all that was necessary, rather than strawman argumentum ad hominem attacks against the inquirer. If you want to live in your own bubble, where no-one asks questions or put forward opinion that you disagree with, that's fine with me. I would prefer to stay out of such a bubble, though, so don't draw me into it by trying to attribute words or sentiment to me that I have not expressed; or taking individual words or sentances out of content to make your point, thankyouverymuch. "Oh bull, no one forces you to see or do anything in sl. Regardless of the age you are rping as, you always remain in full control of your sl. Don't like seeing nudity? Don't go where it's welcome. Don't like advances? Mute, block, ignore. Want to hang around kid friendly and "safe"(the definition being highly subjective apparently) stick to G rated sims. Not moderate, not adult. Yes there are "safe" places in the moderate areas too, but they are likely, as you found out, co-mingled with places that might not be G rated. You can't fault others for your inability to avoid that which you dislike. You say it's not a matter of the world catering to you, but that's exactly how your posts come off." Then you have either not read my posts or have read them with a bias, a bias that you have put on them, not me. That's called a strawman argument, where you place your own interpretation on what someone else has said, claiming that it is what they really meant. You have just made my point; "Want to hang around kid friendly and "safe"(the definition being highly subjective apparently) stick to G rated sims." That, in case you missed it, was my purpose - to seek out "safe" places and what better way to do that than look for a "SAFE" sign? And don't give me that bull about it being "Moderate" land. A RL city street could be called the equivalent to "Moderate" land but, at least here where I live, any Adult shop, theatre or club has to declare what it is - so that ususpecting people don't wander in - and have such content out of sight to the general public; in other words, out of sight from the street. They certainly wouldn't have, or be allowed by law to have, a "child friendly" sign at the door. Quoting from my initial post: "I was somewhat surprised and disgusted to find a store on moderate land with two "SAFE" signs prominently displayed at the entrance, only to find sexual parts, sex equipment and fetish stuff prominently displayed inside. Now, I know the "SAFE" sign refers to abusive behavior and harassment, but does it not also apply to content on display? If it doesn't, should it? At the very least, this is misrepresentation of the establishment and MAY (I don't know) be in conflict with the spirit, if not the letter of the Linden TOS." If you notice, although I say that I was disgusted, I did NOT say that I was disgusted at the content of the store per se, I said I thought that it was "misrepresentation of the establishment". In words of as few sillables as possible; the place has a "safe" sign outside and inside it has displays and equipment that most people would say are inappropriate for children. The content is fine if they didn't have the sign up, I would and did (as soon as I saw what kind of shop it was) leave the place immediately and will not visit again with a child avatar. Most likely, had it not had the sign up I would have probably gone right past it, thinking it looked like nothing special. Having the "safe" sign up led me to think that there may be toys or children's items in there - AND THERE WERE, right next to the door, along with a lucky chair giving wearable teddy bears and freebies including children's bunny slippers. It wasn'y until I got further into the shop that it became aparrent that it was mainly geared toward the adult SL avatar community. Some have said that "safe place or not", we should exercise caution when on SL. That is true, but is it appropriate to have a "safe" sign on places where they are quite obviously trying to attract adult avatars? Should such places be attempting to attract child avatars to such places, which is implicit in the display of a sign recognised as indicating a "child friendly" place? As has also been pointed out, the "safe sign" is not an official institution of Linden Lab, but is a genuine attempt to make it easier for people, not just child avatars, to find places where adult activity is not going to be prominent. It's a laudible aim, one which I completely agree with and wouldn't like to see abused to the point where it becomes insignificant. I'm not blaming anyone and accept what a previous reply said, that the owner MAY have misinterpreted what is meant by the "safe" sign. I'm certainly not blaming the people who thought up the idea or distributes the signs because content in a store can change, or stores can change their initial policies and direction. "There are a TON of G rated places that kid avs can go and have fun, with minimal(though always still some) risk of running into content or people they'd rather avoid. No one taunted you with ice cream or enticed you with some promise of complete safety, just by placing out a sign. Even in places that are G rated, there is always a risk." Once again, another strawman argument. I did not say that anyone "taunted me with icecream", I said that I do not expect the equivalent to taunting with icecream. The "icecream" comment by me was, if you read the post, in the context of offering "child friendly" when it wasn't. If you choose to interpret my words in that way, that's up to you. "What exactly was in the store specifically that made you, as a child, wander in? If it was merely the sign being placed outside, you've only your own curiosity to blame and can't fault the landowner. If, however, you encountered it because of an ad or promise or something that indicates it is specifically a G rated only store, you might have a complaint. Being that now you've said it's on moderate land, you haven't a leg to stand on. The fact that someone chose to put a children's store on moderate land up the way has no relevance here. It doesn't guarantee or even suggest, the other nearby stores are also meant for children. If someone does assume that, it's entirely on them." Agreed to an extent but to answer your question, I have already explained why I entered the store - because I'm always on the lookout for "safe" places. As I mentioned earlier, at the entrance it also had a "lucky chair" and other freebies that were clearly aimed at young SL avatars. "The easiest answer, in this case, is the best. Either don't go to sims outside of G rated(and accept that even they, have slight risk), or accept that you may occasionally run across something you don't like, like the rest of us. I wander around the grid a lot. I have seen a lot of things that disturb me. Everything from specific rp, to horribly built designs, the fugliest fashions i've ever seen, extremely graphic areas, and more. I'm the one that wandered in them, I accept that, and if I don't like it I walk away. Quite simple, really." Me too, I've been exploring SL for years as an adult avi and accept that there is a risk of bumping into all kinds of activity that I'm not interested in or don't like, and I simply walk or teleport away. But you are still insisting that I'm complaining about the content, when I quite clearly said that I am NOT complaining about the content. I am asking if it is appropriate to display a "safe" sign at a place that has Adult content. I agree that one person's "safe" place is another person's horror but that's still not the point. Adult content is Adult content - period. You can argue about what you think I mean as long as you want but I have made clear what I mean. Now let me tell you what I see here; I came on asking a couple of questions, explaining my reasons for asking them. I initially got a few good replies answering my questions well and succinctly. So... as far as I was concerned... end of story. Questions asked, questions answered, everyone is happy. I made a "it's a pity we don't..." suggestion about having an officially recognised, user organised sign that would only be given to people who had shown that they understood the TOS regarding child avis. Then I seem to have got a tirade of accusations and personal attacks on me, in some cases people actually turned what I had said backwards and implied that I meant the opposite of what I actually said. Maybe this isn't a helpful place to ask questions, maybe it's the WRONG place to ask, so can anyone tell me WHERE is the right place to ask questions about SL? Maybe some place where people are not so defensive and quick to tear someone apart simply for asking questions? I'm sorry if asking questions and making suggestions is out of order here, I'll remember that in future. If it's commonplace for people to take up ultra-defensive posturing about a few simple questions and a suggestion, that's fine, knock yourselves out, enjoy your third life!

I may be mistaken here, but I seem to remember that LL were working on a plugin so people could view SL on a web browser. Maybe I'm thinking of a different platform. What I see as a major downfall for business involvement in SL is that you can't "surf" into a sim. As metioned already, you need an account, client and quite high-end graphics capabilities - moreso, now that mesh has become commonplace. I could, though, see opportunities for recreational use by business on SL. I have worked for companies that have gaming computers for recreational use by their staff during breaks and stuff. Rather than forking out for theatre tickets, gym memberships and "away days", some companies may find it more cost effective to have sims on SL where remote training and even home-learning could take place. People learn quicker if the learning process is novel and fun. Themed sims at a "bulk buy". "homestead" or perhaps "business rate" could be attractive to such companies who are currently forking out for online games for their staff to play. Keeping your staff focussed, even during recreation breaks and even as recreation when off duty could increase company loyalty... maybe (if such a thing still exists). As SL is becoming more interactive, with more interactive in-world games coming on stream, there may be opportunities for "real life sales", 3D demonstrations with links to their sales web sites. Although I think the hope that the web would become 3D in a matter of years may have been a forlorn one. Maybe some day people will be able to "surf in" to SL, but at the moment that is not possible.

"You aren't really comparing the situation of a child finding his/her older brothers CD with LYRICS they don't understand because of the lack of knowledge with the situation that a parent forces its child to see RL pictures of genitals?!" Of course not, read the context of what I said. I was referring to Adult material in a place clearly displaying the "safe" sign - which although not official, is recognized by many as indicating that their child avatar will be safe from sexual content there. It was the replier who appeared to equate Adult content with the words of a CD, not me. I was bringing it back to what I was posting about. Why would I post here about what I saw as disgusting if I thought that it was of such little significance as the words of a CD printed on a T-shirt - words that a kid would hardly understand anyway? Incomprehensible words are different from explicit pictures - whether in the context of SL or in the context of RL. In many countries (and I believe in the US too) it is illegal to perform even simulated sex with a minor (even a simulated minor). When we play kids on SL, we want to behave like kids and be treated like kids. When we see a sign that implicitly says "kids welcome", such as the "safe" sign, we do not expect to be subject to explicit images - whether simulated or real. I took the reply as a flip comment and replied accordingly. I should, perhaps point out that this particular store was on mainland Moderate land, just down the road from a child avatar store, so anyone visiting the child avatar store and exploring the surrounding area could be forgiven for thinking the sign was sincerely meant. Many of us became child avatars to afford ourselves a modicum of protection under the TOS against sexual advances and material being foisted upon us. That was a major factor in me, who had played an adult for years, changing to a child avi, I was fed up with sexual advances and inappropriate "invites". This kind of inappropriate signage, whether mistaken or deliberate on the part of the store owner needs to be flagged up so that we can avoid such places. As I said, it isn't a case of wanting everyone to change to suit me, its a case of giving me honest information so that I can avoid adult material and not misleading me into entering an establishment that, in real life, I would not allow my children to enter. I have no control over what T-shirt someone wears, but I do have control over which establishment my young children, and I when playing a young child, enter. I do not expect the equivalent to offering a child ice cream to get them into a sex shop. I agree, sometimes I, too am really out of words for what's going on in people's minds...

Thanks for the replies guys, very helpful. I might have come across as though I was complaining about the content of the store. I wasn't. I was curious to know if the "SAFE" sign is official - which you have answered - and why a store would have it up if the content is patently unsafe, which has also been answered. It's a pity that we don't have an officially recognized symbol or sign that can only be used by establishments that have shown a knowledge of the TOS for child avatars, in the same way that you need to take a short test before you can upload mesh, so that when we are playing as kids we can be reasonably sure that we are not being enticed or trapped into situations that we have no intention of being involved with or wrongly accused of breaking the TOS regarding child avatars on SL. (Maybe a no-mod no-transfer copyrighted sign issued by some resident group involved in the safety of those who play child avatars on SL). If we had one that was only issued - or perhaps licensed and renewed periodically - after a short test. I'm only thinking of protection for both child avatars and other residents. I take the point that the store owner may have misunderstood what the "safe" sign means, too - even though the note card it delivers is quite explicit about its purpose (that they meant you won't be shot or orbited there). Nobody wants to spoil anyone's fun, so I suppose it's a simple case of caveat emptor.

Did your mother also show you pictures of penises and vaginas?

I recently started RP'ing as a child, so am always in search of places marked as "SAFE" (you know, the yellow and black heart sign). I'm confused as to whether this sign is officially recognized by Linden Lab or is just a general convention. If it isn't officially recognized, I suppose that answers my grumbling below and renders the sign itself useless as an indicator of a "SAFE" place, in which case read no more. I was somewhat surprised and disgusted to find a store on moderate land with two "SAFE" signs prominently displayed at the entrance, only to find sexual parts, sex equipment and fetish stuff prominently displayed inside. Now, I know the "SAFE" sign refers to abusive behavior and harassment, but does it not also apply to content on display? If it doesn't, should it? At the very least, this is misrepresentation of the establishment and MAY (I don't know) be in conflict with the spirit, if not the letter of the Linden TOS.