RobertThorp

Alec, In RL I work at the same law firm as Mary Beth. In fact, I was the one who persuaded her to join Second Life. I can assure you that she has been admitted to every bar she has ever entered.That includes bars in most of the airports in the US. But she, like the rest of us in the firm, is licensed to practice law in certain states, but not in all states. Speaking of "bars" and "the bar", many of us have left the offices, stopped at a place where one can get a drink, then gone home and told the spouse "sorry I'm late, I had a bar meeting to attend". Bob

Dresden Ceriano wrote: I'm sure there's a number of men who are as well. Dress, what kind of bra do you wear: Marybeth Cooperstone wrote: Try asking them. That is how i got slapped one time! Bob

I am frequently trying to picture what's under pants - in Real Life :matte-motes-evil-invert:

Perrie, I deal with civil cases more like to one you were involved in, so I will jump in. There are cases that do need a court ruling, perhaps an appellate court where the ruling will set a precedent. Perhaps yours was one of those. However, there are very many cases (most of what I handle) where new law is not needed; just looking at the facts in evidence is all that is required. In those cases, the two parties are expected to settle their difference out of court, perhaps without a law suit. The courts are available to decide the case if the parties cannot agree, but that takes up time in court and costs big money. Not only does it cost each party, but it cost the taxpayer money to operate the court system. The courts are over loaded now, even though only a small number of potential cases goes to trial. Some cases, particularly those involving interpretation of a law, should go to court and should be heard at the appellate level in order to "make law". Other cases, the vast majority, should be settled by the parties. Bob this is not a solicitation for business.

Perrie, I agree. SL needs its own TOS. For LL to rely on Sec. 2.2 does not correct their problem. That section is something we lawyers often insert into contracts to cover our mistakes - mistakes that we should not make in the first place. I would still say that LL did some poor TOS drafting, and should not have written Sec. 6.3 as they did. Terms of Service are part of contracts. These often are so complex that those who write them can easily make mistakes. Having a separate "stand alone" TOS for SL would make it easier for those reading them and for those writing them, and would reduce the chance for errors. I agree with my collegue Mary Beth - when sex or adult rated topics are delt with, people tend to skip proof reading or do it poorly. I am still laughing about the "crimes against nature" incident! She works with states drafting proposed laws; I work with businesses drafting contracts, including the TOS. I see the same thing - poor drafting and poor proof reading (the most important part of writing) in parts dealing with sex or adult rated topics. Bob The above should not be considered legal advice and, by posting it, I am not soliciting business.

Dillon, I agree. Just as an example, this picture (the one in white, of course) looks very sexy! :matte-motes-big-grin-evil: Bob

AnnAdams wrote: It may be harder in RL to fake one's gender, but it can be done. It is pretty easy in RL to lie about one's profession and to give advice without knowing what you are talking about. So take everything, in SL or in RL, with a grain of salt. Very true. It is harder to fake gender in RL, but I have known of it being done. I know of one guy (NOT ME!) who met a good looking girl in a bar. One thing let to another, and eventually he found out that she was really a he. So take everything, particularly SL but also RL with a grain of salt.

What a good looking butt!! I don't know what that thing below it is, but to get rid of it you should cut down on fatty and high carb food and get more exercise.

Perrie Juran: "But they are forever forgetting to put in electrical outlets for us to plug our appliances into." Electrical outlets in bras? I could really get my fingers shocked!:matte-motes-evil-invert:

We don't know if he reported her, but shortly after his accusation her post was incorrectly pulled.

Drake, Obviously you either didn't check to see if the links violated the guidelines, or you don't have the ability to understand the guidelines. My work as an attorney (same firm as Marybeth, but a different speciality) is to write and review contracts. Often terms and guidelines are vague. In this case, they are not vague. It is clear that they were not violated. Bob

Lillyanna, We are in extreme agreement. Yes, this is a virtual world, but it is too easy for some people to forget that behind an avatar is a real human being. As for me, what ever my avatar is doing with another avatar, I am doing with another person. That is why I believe in honesty if asked about RL. I don't engage in any activity in SL where gender (or looks, or age) matters. I only know one female in RL who is on SL. But I work with her and know her husband, so any romantic activity is out of the question. I do enjoy listening to music and discussing politics, law (my profession), and life in general with others. But gender, looks, and age don't matter in these activities. Bob

Syo and Dresden, While she would not be my choice, I would rather have RL or SL sex with an ugly old woman than with a man. And I know some people (both men and women) who would rather have RL or SL sex with a physically unattractive man than with a good looking woman. I don't have a good enough imagination. The difference between SL and games not connected with the internet (Sims, etc.) is that there is a real life person behind the avatar, and I am doing whatever with that person. That is a big reason why I don't have sex in SL. The gender, like the looks, cannot be verified. There are methods of verifying things about other people, but not on SL. (They work only on very specilized smaller forums, where the owner or operator of the forum cooperates) Some people like to watch pixels on a screen having sex, not thinking of the person behind the pixels. I have no problem with that; but it is not me. Bob

Perrie and Madelaine, Thanks for the replies to Bobbie Faulds. I have read the TOS and I am sure that if there was any prohibition against asking, I would have remembered. And I don't remember any. I will read the TOS tonight, but I think that the disclosing prohibition is against disclosure of other peoples RL information. I believe that anyone is allowed to disclose their own gender or other information, but not someone else's. I will check the TOS tonight. Syo, There is nothing homophobic about wanting to have pixel sex, or real sex, with people of the opposite gender, just as there is nothing wrong with wanting the same with people the same gender as oneself. Yes, how a person looks may be part of a choice of sex partner, but, for many of us, that is only a small part when compared with gender. That is true for most straight and gay men and women. I have no desire to have "pixel sex". But obviously some people do. Some don't care what gender is behind the avatar, or even if it is a human or bot. But others do care. That is why I still say: if you care, ask. If you are asked, either refuse to answer or be truthful. And if you really, strongly care, don't have sex on SL unless you really know (e.g.. know the other person in RL). Bob

I know that for many people it would not matter if they had pixel sex with someone of the gender that was not the avatar's gender. I, as a straight male, would not have pixel sex with a female avatar operated by a male person. A gay friend, who is familar with SL, told me that he would not have sex with a male avatar operated by a female person. I think that a good rule would be: if you are asked what your RL gender is, either refuse to answer or answer correctly. If you are a male operating a female avatar, fine. But if you are asked, don't lie. Either refuse to answer or be correct. I know this can't be enforced, and some people are not always honest in matters of sex. After all, in RL how many married men have told female dates that they are single? That is one reason I do not have sex in SL.

Marybeth, I bet you were picky before you became a lawyer:) I knew Marybeth in RL before she joined SL, and she is very much a female and looks like her picture in FB, and very much like her avatar in SL. Bob

Perrie Juan said: "About the closest thing you could get to a guarantee on the Interwebs would be to get on Web Cam and have the other person hold up five forms of picture ID for you to look at." I would have the other party show something else. If the party is female, she would probably refuse. If male, it could get that person into some very serious trouble. Some people, on dates with someone that claims to be a certain gender, will ask the other person to use voice to verify. That works some of the time, but there are people who can fake the voice of the other gender, and there is the possibility of a guy getting a woman (or vice versa) to speak. That is unlikely, but possible. Age and gender verification is a problem and not something I would trust on SL.

A few years ago a friend who is a history professor showed me an on-line teaching tool (or "environment") she was trying out. I don't remember the name or company that sold it. It was accessed through the web; no special software was needed. So students could access it through any computer, such as one at their work or in a library. In one mode, generally for lectures, most of the students' screens would be a video of the teacher or a screen view from a computer (power point, pictures, or anything), or both. There would be an icon (raised hand) to ask for recognition. The teacher could see a list of students with raised hands and click on a name to recognize that student. Then on each student's computer there would be a small window with a video or picture of the student who was recognized (either from the camera on the student's laptop or a stored picture). The recognized student could ask a question, either by voice or by text. In another mode, typically used for discussion groups, each student would see an array of all of the students (either live video or stored pictures) in small pictures. I think that it would allow about three dozen students in the group. The teacher could require that, as in the lecture mode, a student "raise his hand" and be recognized, or simply open it up so anyone could speak (useful only for very small groups). Students with cameras on their computers could easily switch from live video to stored picture. Students could also easily switch between voice (if they had a mike) or text for questions or comments. There was a mode for very large discussion groups; it looked more like the lecture mode. There were many other build in features, such as a forum and chat. There were features not related to history, such as the ability to connect third party programs for chemical modeling, math modeling (enter an equation and display live graph), etc. The class could have a license for third party programs, music, books, etc. and allow controlled access only through the training program website. I won't compare this environment to an actual class room experience. It is intended to be used for distance education where face to face class room experience is not an option. But it seemed far better than a fake classroom, avatars, etc. in a virtual world (SL and others) class.

Charly Muggins: "I think it would be a wonderful idea for SL to be used to teach people how to read and write English - especially those who erroneously think they already can." I assume you must be talking about us Americans

vickiadams: In RL I tell at the store by feeling the wire (or lack of wire) in the bra, Perrie Juran: I got in trouble for this once. I can tell by feeling the wire also. I have never tried it in the store.:matte-motes-dead: Perrie, did you get into trouble on a real person or in the store?:matte-motes-oh-rly:

Well, boy or girl, the coming of the baby has already had an effect on the English economy. I just heard from a friend in London; his teenage son has been making a fortune (for a teenager) bringing drinks and junk food for the photographers outside of the hospital, palace, and other places who are afraid to leave their posts to eat or drink. Not to mention all the bar keepers, hotel staff, and others taking care of the out of town press and tourists.

As others have explained, it may be a matter of how the speed is mesured. Just curious, how do you measure speed? What is telling you that SL is 300-400 kbps? I don't have any idea what speed I am getting on SL on my computer. At work I frequently have to download or send large files, so I can measure the time to download or send the files and know the size of the files. But on SL I have no idea what the size of files are. I would like to have a good way of knowing the speed (SL and everything else) so I can complain when it drops

Coby, I strongly agree. Your suggestions (in teacher mode) are very good. What vendors should understand is that many of the people who are buying shapes, skin, complete avartars, etc. are newbies. Also, there are many people who were active on SL in the past, have been inactive, and now are coming back. They likely will not know about things like mesh. The vendors need to be more explicit and understand that many people don't know what they know. Bob

Kyodia: "There is no such thing as mesh skin, just a mesh avatar." Some people think there is: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/promotion-350L-New-Female-Mesh-Avatar-Mesh-Skin/5045638 If you can't load it, the box has: New Female Mesh Avatar (Mesh Skin) Syo: "I bet at least 90% of all avatar related products show complete avatars with hair and such...and all of them should add a giant list on what is sold from the picture and what not? Thats absurd." Ever notice a package of food in the grocery store has, by the picture: serving suggestion"? There is a reason. The laws in the US (and many other countries) are very strong. If it is a picture on the box or in the ad; if someone (including newbies) could reasonably think that something on the picture was included, it had better be there or you need a disclaimer. Some merchants in SL do follow the law and explicitly state what is and is not included. But many do not. The only reason that they get away with it is that the amounts of money, converted to US$, is too trivial to worry about and it certainly would not pay to hire an attorney to sue. Ads and boxes should list what is and what is not included, including (either included or not) skin, shape, eyes, hair.

I have known "Mary Beth" in RL since before she was on Second Life. The picture of her RL face (books on shelves in background) is her, although rather old (sorry Mary Beth, but we all age). The clothes, at least the suits and professional clothes look exactly like what she wears at work, and both what she wears at RL work and what she wears on SL is quality (I know that males are not supposed to know about quality in women's clothes). Of course, I don't know what she looks like in her RL underwear :matte-motes-not-even: Her hair was custom made years ago and was exactly like her hairstyle at the time (similar to now). Likewise, her face was custom made and looks exactly like what she looked like at the time. I also know the person who did the custom hair and face. Maybe these days you can get nicer looking Avi's (skin and shape) and hair, but it won't look like the person, and she wanted an avi that looked like her. Bob