Vinten

Well here we are again with yet another forced Tos before we can log in again. Have you read it lol No further comment from me byt be prepared for a face-plant . . . . .

Ok to steer this topic back to the context of the title; For those of you who haven't watched the interview with Jessica Lyons from Firestorm, I invite you to do so. Pay special attention to the last 15 minutes of the interview where she approaches her views on involving the community as a whole in the development of SL, especially at this time where SL2 is on the table. Jessica Lyons Interview I hope by watching this it will demonstrate to you the importance and purpose of this thread and why I considered it worthy of placing here.

Phil Deakins wrote: Someone already said that LL has not propsed any changes to the SL platform, but I think you mean putting whether or not they should create a new platform to a public vote. First, they have no intention of closing SL after the new platfrom is launched. Second, there is absolutely no reason that I can think of why a company should ask its customers whether or not they should design something new. Do car manufacturers ask their customers to vote on whether or not they produce a new car? Of course not. If they don't produce a new car, they fall behind and eventually lose their business. LL is no different. They are creating a new model and the old model will still work - just like cars. If they don't design a new model, sooner or later, someone else will, and LL will fall behind and go into decline. The idea of asking us whether or not they create a new model is ludicrous. Quite frankly, wanting them to get our go-ahead is a very self-centred attitude. LL is about making profits, and not about bending over backwards to satisfy the whims of the users. For many users, SL is about enjoying it as it is. The two views don't match, and the only view that matters is the one that LL has. Remember that SL only exists so that LL can make profits, so LL making profits into the future is the only thing that matters long-term. Thank you Phil. This represents your personal view and I am grateful that you have added input into the post. I won't make assumptions about your attitude though as you have done with mine. That adds no value for me but thank you all the same!

Navillus01 wrote: I'm new to SL and not sure if I'm posting in the right place. My work group consists of 10 people that are all in different locations across North America. We meet as a team once a month and I'm looking for a short (10-15 minutes) fun activity we can do online. Are there things on SL I should look at? Hi Nav You could easily buy/rent a small parcel of land that will be unique for your team. As for fun activities, the SL world is your Oyster in here. Only slight problem I can foresee is that if you require a group chat scenario, the chat servers for group chats can get somewhat laggy. It's usually ok in a 'local chat scenario' and that would be your way forward if your team is on dedicated land just for you guys. I would suggest giving it a try and see if it works out for what you intend. SL was actually created for just such a scenario. Good luck with your project.

Rhys Goode wrote: I keeping my name and a nicely designed avatar would be great. But in the long run, designing a platform which does not let the clueless creators lock up my computer with laggy, poorly designed crap, would be worth more to me. Don't get me wrong, there are lots of good creators, and having the residents do the building is what makes SL so attractive in the first place, but there are too many things that have been built with 4096x4096 textures used for every last detail. (Yeah, I know SL trims them down to 1024's, but the clueless creators do not). Or some of the nifty keen mesh clothes that have so many verts that you cannot stand next to the person wearing it. please, please, SL2 , put in some building guidlines that make sense. Rhys, what are your feelings about the residents having some say in the development and decision making about SL's way forward? If you agree that we should have influential input, how would you say that we communicate this to LL's? (a) By Voting? (b) By receiving a questionnaire form or being diverted to an online questionnaire? © None of the above?

KILLAKEBAB wrote: So if the new platform goes ahead and they expunge SL would it really matter? Surely we have reached the limit of things to do on SL as it is? Go dancing, flying, build and make clothes. Or RP or even grief. All has its limits. The new platform might be 100 times better, and everyone will be too embarrassed to come on SL. Just like nobody uses the very silly but once popular Delphi Forums anymore. All things run their course. Perhaps SL has run its. You have had the good times, now it's maybe time to let go. It can live on in memories, but nobody "needs" it to go on. Killakebad: I think you will find this thread useful where much has been discussed about the matter: Linden Lab is building a NEW virtual world

Christin73 wrote: LL's Owns the platform. It DOES NOT own the creations that are user made. I hope they don't get rid of the origional SL. I think alot of people will stay with what they know even if they try the new one. LL's is still makeing plenty of money off the premium members and L$ exchange to not keep the origional. I think you will find they changed the TOS and in fact they do own our creations. This is another Bone of contention with many people for the rights and wrongs of it. Clever move they did yes?

LaskyaClaren wrote: I have some sympathy with this idea, although I don't of course think it would ever be considered. I'd be curious to know, however, how many SL creators, including those who might support this kind of direct input into LL's decision-making process, would be willing to apply the same "democratic" principles to their own customers? There are many creators that take direct input from their customer base to shape their products. Cheshyr Pontchartrain at Novatech is one example amongst many. he's always in his group taking suggestions and answering requests from his purchasers. Fanatik Architecture is another example of a vendor that let their customers shape their products. Many Many more . . .

Good answer Nova but until it's 'officially confirmed' that both systems will run side by side and we have that choice then great. Point is, I am asking in a respectful manner about what choices we may have. I have made no demands, I am simply asking if we can vote and have an input which will influence things from our perspective to. Just simply asking if possible?

Not bothered how it is labelled Desperado, it's a simple enough request in which the answer will either be yes or no.

I have a request and wondered if you would consider the following: Can I respectfully request that you put these proposed changes to the SL platform to a 'Public Vote.' Simply speaking; You and your team created the original platform, but we the residents created the content, invested our money and populated the SL world. Because of 'our investment,' you have the funds to develop SL2. Reading through the forum, there is support for you proposal swinging both ways and I am not making this post to discuss the politics of that in this thread. It would be beneficial to all if you laid out your proposals in a clear manner, including your idea's for various options and let us vote as a community. This way is fair and democratic and also, you are giving us a say in the matter considering that we all played a major role in getting us all as a team this far. Remember, I am not saying what is right and wrong, I am asking that you let us gauge that for ourselves please. Can you oblige? Your personal response would be gratefully received.

Arwen you have to believe at the moment that the sales loss over the last 3 days is like a mass coincidence. If you subscribe to a more plausible cause like Ebbe news, your in danger of being accused of being unrealistic so let's drink to the most remarkable coincidence in the history of time lol Maybe we can blame the weather?

No disrespect mean't guys but I think Cats made a respectful attempt to keep the subject matter relevant to her original post 'on topic' to that effect. Cats I feel that your trying to gauge balanced consensus for the reasons concerning your sales downturn. I admire you for taking that unbiased approach. My personal answer to you is 'loss of confidence' as a direct result of Ebbe post. I cannot decide if I think the effect will be temp or permanently damaging. I see no other reason? Like you I do share your desire to discuss the politics of that one subject (Ebb Post) in the other thread you listed earlier.

I hear what your saying Gaia, but honestly, this is not about 'volume' this is about statistics represented by the posts that have been made so far. Count them! I did . . .

Well Ebbe Let's look at what you have done so far in last few days in your shiny new role as CEO . . . . . . You have released/leaked and impromptu statement about the future of sl1 and sl2 You have destroyed the confidence in the market literally overnight: Creators won't create. Residents won't buy. One major land company I know in sl lost 42 residents last night. Inworldz has taken their biggest sign up quota in the last 24 hours ever. You have caused stress, worry, anxiety. __________________________________________________________ Of course people are worried about their long term investment in their assets (did you expect them not to be?) Of course we all know that our personal investments has funded the development of your shiny new games model = sl2 Do you think we like the way your rewarding many of us? ermmm 'NO' Do you think we like the fragmented way you presented this information void of much detail causing much of the above? ermm 'NO' You will of course have some huggers to your cause and they like us, are entitled to express their opinion, but as you can see Ebbe, the majority are not hugging you. We don't like it. LL created a platform, we created the life and the economy, not you. If we are going to be democratic about this and install the respect that is needed from LL, you could have at least proposed the changes and put it to a public vote, I mean, how could you argue with that for a positive accurate reflection on any changes you want to propose? Most don't want to drive your shiney new car. They want to carry on using the coding skills they have taken years to learn. They want their valued creations to continue to exist in the format they made them, serving to help pay for their SL as SL was intended to be used in that respect for those that chose to do so. This all seems about 'YOU' Ebbe. You want this, you want that, you want the other. I don't see you asking us what we want. So to me here is your way forward: Ask us, listen to us, respond to us. Let the people that have funded SL decide it's direction. After all, they are not fools, they know what they want and enjoy.

No Phil I totally disagree with you. That is your viewpoint as I am exercising my right to express mine without judging anyone else. At no point did LL ever say my content was to be deleted otherwise I would not have purchased it. They cleverly changed the TOS as while back stating that we agree that our content is thir property and now we know why. They knew they was doing this and covered themselves legally. It might all be legit in law what they are doing but problem is, the majority don't like it as you can see through reactions in here. Purchased content is just that, it belongs tot he buyer, digital or material. I purchased the bulk end of my stuff prior to being forced to sign a new toss before I could log in and access my assets again.

And another thing, and this is fact . . . . If you loose everyone's assets, they will leave SL in droves. Who in their right mind would suffer that loss and forgive you? Not me!

Ok let's cut to the chase and here is the bottom line, I hope LL reads this because this is and will remain unanswered: Nobody is really opposed to a better platform that will make the user experience better. What people are opposed to is the investment everyone has made into their assets / inventory from a financial perspective. If we ( the sl users ) did not by stuff and make an economy for LL to profit, LL could not afford the new platform. So now LL could press the delete button eventually on our assets to build a more expensive delete button for the future. To Linden Labs: How are you going to compensate us for this if we cannot transfer our assets? Simple enough question, simple understandable answer required . . . . . . . . .

Opps ok, if a Moderator can remove please.

Posted on Firestorm Forum! Full Article: Article Many of you have heard by now that Ebbe Linden (CEO @ LL) slipped news at Friday’s Third Party Viewer Meeting that LL is moving resources to developing a new platform, a next-generation platform built “in the spirit of Second Life.” I will provide links to related media and articles at the bottom of this post, and I highly encourage you to read them to form your own opinions. But for now, here are a few facts as we know them. The current plan is that the new platform will not be open source at least initially. (This means there will be no Third Party Viewer alternatives at least initially, and there will be a new viewer built by LL.) This could change over the course of time.LL intends to continue maintaining and developing Second Life while they develop the new platform and will operate them in parallel even after the new platform is launched. SL will remain as long as it is profitable for LL to continue operating it.The new platform will be built “in the spirit of Second Life” and will put focus on content creators as the primary customer. LL wants to make it so good SL users will want to migrate to it.Assets (inventory) from Second Life will “likely” not be transferable because they do not want to constrain what is possible by maintaing backwards compatibility. This wasn’t said with complete certainty, though, which suggests some content may be permitted.Second Life will continue to be improved, albeit on a smaller scale. Oz Linden is now Technical Director and in charge of a small team who will keep development in SL going.This new platform is still in very early stages, and it is unlikely even a beta will be seen before next year.