Marybeth Cooperstone

I agree. It is a pain. Lining up the sides, where the front and back meet on each side, can be difficult, but RL tops usually have a seam on each side, so patterns don't match at that point in RL. Same with where the sleeves meet the torso. However, in RL there is usually only one seam going down the length of a sleeve. In SL there are two. So patterns should match on at least one of them. As you point out, that is difficult. For me, it requires a lot of trial and error. I haven't tried the SL Clothes Previewer yet, I will give that a try. Mary Beth

Yes, I do it. As Ariel pointed out, the use of prims will add some depth or 3-D effect. However, I make all of my SL clothes using GIMP to make "system" clothes. Looking at some of my RL shirts, skirts, and other thing there is very little thickness difference for a hem. There is a slight difference in color and often the stitching is visible. One way to make a hem is too use a very slight difference in color. Also, my shirts are less than 100% opacity (like real fabric). Typically, if you look closely and my avi has fully rezed, you will see a slight image of my bra under it (like in RL). For hems, I make the hem more opaque, often 100%. I make hems at the bottom, sleeves, neckline, and sometimes even where the seams on RL clothing would be. Marybeth

Years ago I was in wills and estates, so I know how complicated things tend to get, and at a time the executor doesn't need to face more complexity. The Linden instructions for bequeathing an account seems to be a lot of work, and probably some expense. I think that, unless the assets within SL are large, it would be simpler for the beneficiary to open an account under her own name. As for notification of SL friends, I know of someone who had an RL friend who was also on SL. My friend has given her friend a list of certain people on SL (by user name) to notify upon her death or incapacity (e.g. serious stroke). This is not a legal document but some simple instructions, including some notifications of RL (non SL) people who would need to know. I don't know if such violates the TOS, I don't think they would. But it doesn't matter. What are they going to do to you if you are dead. BTW. My friend is still alive and in good health, so the above has never been tested.

I couldn't tell, but friends said that my voiced changed (back to normal), when I got over a very sore throat.

In general, I have no objection to roleplaying even though I do not do it. If a medieval young female avatar (really an old man) joins in a discussion or attends a group meeting, OK. There are only a few things I would object to, but I have no evidence that they occur on SL (but they have occurred on discussion boards). I would not like it if a male, using a female avatar, does things to disparage females that has creditability only because everyone thinks that he is female. For example, a statement from a female avi that "I and all of the women I know ........" Same goes for someone posing as someone of another religion, nationality, profession, or whatever if the purpose is to make that other group look bad. It is one thing to roleplay as someone different; quite another thing to deceive people about your real life. Some things may be unethical and perhaps, in some places, illegal. For example, if you are not a lawyer but you claim to be a RL lawyer and give legal advice, that is a problem. Same goes for lay people who claim to be a doctor in RL and give medical advice. But, as far as I know, almost all RPers keep SL and RL separate and do not try to deceive others about their real lives. I think that for those who are interested, role playing can be quite entertaining and even educational.

Czari wrote: "We're either in the same SL church community or we've crossed paths somewhere along the line as your name looks familiar." Yes, I know we have crossed paths in-world. The church I "attend" has a big church with services 12N SL time on Sunday and 12N SL time on weekdays in a smaller chapel. I am usually busy on Sundays but sometimes attend; I am at work during the week but sometimes (1 or 2 times a week) get to the service in the chapel, using a computer in my office. I know that some members roleplay, either because they have told me or because of the look of their avatar. Perhaps someone roleplays by going to the church services, listening to bible readings and prayers, but I doubt it. That would be very boring. After the service (or before) there is sometimes some discussion of personal lives, what people are doing outside of SL. Sometimes people ask for prayers for family or friends that are ill or in need. That seems to be real, but obviously one can't prove it. However, the people seem to care about each other. The leadership team of the church is from all over the world and their RL names, e-mail, and bio info is on the church's website. Marybeth

"Knowing that some people roleplay on SL, is it a problem that some people who are in discussions about church, parent, and lawyer stuff aren't who they are pretending to be?" I understand that people on SL are not, in RL, who they pretend to be on SL, either gender, age, profession, etc. I have no problem with that. Of course, the same is true in most other forums, including this. I don't role play myself on SL, but I accept the fact that a person talking to me may be role playing. That is not a problem. Therefore I do not give out personal information such as address or name of employer, etc. And in discussing personal matters I am aware that the gender may be different. In any legal discussion, certain ethical rules will prevent me from, for example, giving legal advice without disclaimers or, in some cases, giving it at all.

Coby wrote: RobertThorp wrote: ... of having to go into the feminine hygiene aisle at the supermarket and picking something from the shelf and putting it into the cart, then going through the checkout where a girl in my class bagged. Hehehe, I can imagine your feelings. I work with Bob and bet he still would be embarrassed. I will have him do some shopping for me!

Mary, In RL, clothing stores and department stores have lingerie departments where they display bras, panties, and nightgowns (some "seductive") on racks and mannequins, open to all to see. It is quite common to see women with their kids visiting those departments. When my son was young, going from my car through a mall anchor department store to the kids clothing department I would pass through the intimates department. Sometimes I would stop and look at a bra or nightgown. I certainly did not think that I was exposing him to anything he should not see. This isn't new. It was that way years ago when my mother would take my brother and I shopping with her. And my son (like my brother years ago) has been with his mom to the grocery store many times, including the feminine products aisle. ("mom, what is that?" "This aisle is for girls and women"). So I see nothing wrong with lingerie being sold in SL in G areas. And, as Melita pointed out, "Anything can happen on SL at any time. Even on G rated land,..." In RL, a man was recently arrested for nudity and lewd acts in a shopping mall. Of course, that is not as common in RL because of security and the threat of arrest and jail, but it does happen. SL cannot be as secure. Marybeth

I know that there are people with all kinds of interests on Second Life -- Gamers, Roleplayers, etc. But for me, SL is just an extension of my RL. Before the internet was available, I was active on Compuserve, Prodigy, etc. Now I am on several forums (AKA bulletin boards, discussion groups, etc.) For example, I am on one that is made up of members of my church denomination and we talk about church administration matters. Another is made up of attorneys and we talk about legal stuff. Another is parents of teenagers and we discuss parenting. On all of these I use my real name, but, for security, don't put information such as home phone or cell numbers or addresses. (on the legal board we often put firm names and main numbers). My own use of second life is similar. I belong to a church group. We attend services, and sometime, after the service, discuss personal things, with the usual limits for security (addresses, etc.). I also sometimes meet on SL with other parents of teens and attorneys to discuss things of mutual interest (sometimes discussions with attorneys ends up being discussions of our kids, cooking, etc.) My SL name is similar to my RL name. In other words, for me, SL is much like the old Compuserve, Prodigy, etc. or the newer internet based forums, such as this. My avatar even looks and dresses like the real me. I know that others are different, For example role play is popular on SL. It is simply a matter of individual interest.

I always wear lingerie - bra, panties, usually a cami. I make my own clothes, including lingerie. I like making very realistic (down to the strap adjustment slider, etc) usually with lace, so I wear it, even though no one can see it. Same in RL-I wear very nice looking, feminine bras, often with lace, even though no one knows. I work with Bob - he introduced me to SL. But I can't stop laughing at the thought of him walking into the office with big breasts

Bob, That picture actually isn’t me. I realized later that I uploaded one similar to the picture of me, and the description (“the scalloped neckline has one kind of lace, and the cup has several kinds….”) is from that picture. I actually have that exact bra and have made a similar one for second life. The picture that is of me is: Similar enough to get confused. A few notes: Don’t try to cut and paste from a picture. Not only are there copyright issues but it simply won’t work. If you don’t enjoy drawing the lace yourself, I strongly recommend the Trendy Templates psd files from Stella Gravois: https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/TT-Lingerie-Bras-Creation-Kit-with-PSD/2335179 I have bought them. Bra 3 is the one with the lace, and it is very nice looking. It is a demi with halter strap but you can use the lace with any type of bra you are making. But personally, I enjoy making lace. Marybeth

If it is so secret, how do you know??

If you look at your own lace bras, or lace bras on websites of stores, you will notice several things about bra lace: Unlike lace on sheer curtains and other things, the lace on bras are not repeating patterns, but a number of random elements put together. Here is a snap shot (not good - using my cell phone camera) of one of my bras. Notice the scalloped neckline has one kind of lace, and the cup has several kinds. In this case, the gore (middle, between the cups) has a ribbon. I found that I could simply draw the lace that I wanted using the pencil in Gimp. It is like doodling, which I have done for years on pads of paper while killing time. But in Gimp I keep one had on the mouse, drawing small elements (leaf, flower petal, etc.) and the other hand on ctrl-z (undo). I make an attempt, hit undo, make another, hit undo, etc. until I have what I want. Then I can duplicate it, flip it, change orientation, etc. and make many copies of that element. Bloom elements can be made by making an oval, duplicating it, changing the orientation by 45 degrees, duplicating, etc. Typically I place an element such as a bloom - very symmetrical - in the gore, circles (such as in the picture) in scallops on the neckline or below the band (bottom). The cup is covered with leaves, blooms, etc. The side panels may have some of the same elements as the cup, but towards the back I usually go for a curvy line (vine) with leaves coming from it. I need something long and thin. In general, I draw lace on one layer which has 100% opacity. That is in front of a layer with a lower opacity that is in the shape of the bra. So the area between the lace elements are semi-transparent. If you look at some store websites, such as Macy’s - for example: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/wacoal-bra-silver-halo-lace-seamless-underwire-bra-65149?ID=153450&CategoryID=55799#fn=sp%3D1%26spc%3D597%26ruleId%3D22%26slotId%3D18 or http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/lunaire-bra-sevilla-embroidered-demi-bra-14011?ID=246717&CategoryID=225&LinkType=PDPZ1 you will see that the lace on bras is very irregular, almost random, with a mixture of types of elements. It takes some patience at first to draw it, but, after a while (with one hand on ctrl-z to undo) it becomes a relaxing thing to do. I will be happy to answer any questions about details. I use Gimp, so photoshop may be a little different. Marybeth

1. For a number of years I had been sketching clothing on pads of paper while on telephone hold or waiting for my case in court (I’m a lawyer). Then I got involved in Second Life, and decided that rather than just pencil and paper I could use GIMP and make clothes for my avi in SL. Now the only things I wear are things I have made. 2. I use Gimp to draw textures and then upload them. All of my clothes are “system”. Most of the time I upload white (sometimes with black parts) and then color them using the SL “edit” feature. I use the opaque feature in Gimp to make some parts semi-transport. For example, if my avi is wearing only a shirt and you look at her from the back, you will barely see bra straps. Lace on lingerie is usually an opaque layer above a highly transparent layer. I do not use mesh, prims, etc. There is nothing wrong with them, it is just that for me it is easier and more fun to do everything in Gimp and upload. 3. Everything I make is what I would wear (or have worn) in RL. Because of my work, I typically wear professional suits (pants suits and skirted suits) in RL. Therefore that is large part of what I make and wear in SL. My avi is an extension of me, so what I wear and make in SL is what I wear, or would like to wear, in RL. 4. Yes, I make lingerie (bras, panties, camis, slips), night gowns, and bathing suits in SL. Again, what I make is what I wear or would like to wear in RL. For example, I recently made and frequently wear a lace bra in SL that looks just like my favorite one in RL. I recently saw a RL bra that was a demi blue cup with yellow lace making it full coverage. The store didn’t have it in my size so I am now making one like it in RL. Actually, bras with lots of lace are the most fun for me to make, so I have many of them. I will add that I like realism. The straps on my bras include the things for adjusting the length. The back of the bra looks just like the back of a RL bra. (Same with other clothing. Dresses and skirts have zippers). 5. I don’t have a store. I do attend various events in SL, so the suits and dresses I make can be seen. Often that results in individual discussions with others about clothes. I would like to show off my lingerie and nighties, but, like in RL, I don’t know about places where I would only be wearing lingerie without clothes on over them. (If anyone knows of anywhere – other that “adult entertainment” places, let me know). Mary Beth

All RL clothing has seams. So if SL clothing is to be realistic, it will have seams. In RL, even patterns are broken across seams. There are some methods to reduce the effect of seams, however. When a tga file is uploaded, you can, before it is uploaded, see what it will look like in 3D using the preview feature dropdown list. If a correction needs to be made, you can make it before the upload. Bra straps or sides that don't line up are worse than seams. It is also helpful to use design elements. For example, if a dress is made from a shirt and a skirt, a horizontally oriented pattern at the bottom of the shirt or the top of the skirt may prevent any necessity of lining up vertical patterns. Marybeth

Drake1Nightfire wrote: "Only if you convert $L to real or hard currency. If i make 2 million $L a year and never convert it to real money i do not have to pay a tax on it. As is stated in the TOS" Very true. By "Make money" I mean real money, dollars or something. That would be the gross income. After deducting what the dollars you converted to $L (for your business) and your business expense, in dollars, you would get your taxable business income. If you never converted $L to real $, then you would have no income. In addition to previous disclaimers, I will add: for any real tax advice, see your own tax professional. MBC

"doesnt LL collect VAT from euros?" Maybe so. I should have added that to my knowledge here in the US it collects no tax. I wouldn't be surprized if some states were trying to collect a tax from them, but I don't know of any that do. If you make money on SL activities above your costs (including computer, etc.) then you may owe US or state income tax (if in the US), but that is up to the individual, not to LL. (previous disclaimers apply) MBC

I make my RL living as a tax lawyer, mostly writing tax laws for state and local governments and arguing about those laws in court. In general, the term "tax" refers only to money collected by a government (income, sales, property, etc.). Money collect by non-government entities, including Linden Labs, other software companies, and other organizations go by some other name such as commissions, fees, dues, etc. but not "tax". For example, my homeowners collects dues, which I am legally obligated to pay. They use this money for maintenance of the privately owned roads in my neighborhood, among other things. Yet they do not and cannot call it a "tax". If LL ever collects a tax, that would be money that they collect on behalf of some government. But, at present, there is no such thing. The money that LL collects to maintain the infrastructure and other purposes may go to a "virtual government", and, as such it is very similar to a tax. But they are not a real government and therefore what they collect is not a tax. MBC Standard lawyers' disclaimer: The above is not legal advice and the reader and I am not in an attorney/client relationship. Standard Marybeth disclaimer: When it comes to advice, you get what you pay for.

I was the one that created the JIRA. I use the "add" function to place multiple items on a layer on all of the layers other than skirt. I have never had a problem with semi-transparent items being worn over other items on the same layer except on the skirt layer. I have tried wearing an opaque slip (as a skirt) and then adding a semi-transparent skirt over it. The bottom item, the slip, disappears. There are several things I would like to do if the add function worked on the skirt like it does on other layers: semi-transparent skirt over opaque slip, Belt, made as an extremely short skirt, over a skirt, as in a dress with a belt, Bottom part of jacket made as a very short skirt so that it falls over, no under, the skirt (skirted suits), And other things I haven't thought of yet.

Yes, adding shadows and wrinkles adds time and trouble. Sometimes I have made shadows and wrinkles by photographing (with my cell phone) a small piece of white cloth with the shape and wrinkles that I want and then bringing the photograph into GIMP and cutting it into the desired shape. Some of my camisoles have a slight shadow to give some shape for breasts. But Elidon wanted "nothing to suggest breasts". I have used this method to add wrinkles to skirts and creases to pants legs.

Lis, Good luck. I don't know anything about pricing for full perm, or for anything else, since I only make clothes for my own use. It is pretty easy to make camisoles of almost any style; I am sure that it is not hard to add some wrinkles and shadows. I used GIMP (Photoshop should be the same) and put a bra (full coverage) on one layer. That way, I could make sure the camisole covered the entire bra except for the straps. Then I turned off visibility of the bra before saving as a .tga. Marybeth

Lis, For examples of what is called a "camisole" or "cami" in the US, look at this: http://www.saksfifthavenue.com/Women-s-Apparel/Intimates-Hosiery-and-Shapewear/Camisoles-and-Tanks/shop/_/N-52fmt5/Ne-6lvnb5?FOLDER<>folder_id=2534374306419513&SECSLOT=LN-Intimates%2C+Hosiery+%26+ They are often used as underwear, but also often used under a jacket as a part of a woman's professional suit. I have many of them in SL (I also have many in RL) that I have made for myself, but they do not have the details wrinkles and shadows that Elidon wanted. MBC

As is apparent from this thread, SL is different things to different people. For me, it is not fantasy or roleplaying, but part of RL. For others it is roleplaying; something they are not but would like to be, if just for a few hours. In conversations on SL about family and work, I will talk about my RL family and RL work. For others, it will be made up. When I was a kid, Compuserve, Prodigy, and other bulletin boards are popular. People talked about their real lives, although I am sure some were roleplaying and fantasy. For me, having a conversation in SL is like having a conversation on one of the services like compuserve. I will be talking about RL. We are different and have different uses for Second Life.

Tamara, Although for me I am the same in SL and RL, I can certainly understand people doing in SL things they wouldn't dream of doing in RL, or being in SL what they are not in RL. I will take issue with one thing you said: "am too old to ...." You are never too old! :matte-motes-grin: Marybeth