Mayalily

Sy Beck wrote: If they (supposed friends) open the viewer all they have to do is look at the top bar area of any SL viewer screen to see your username it's where the the viewer name and version number is. ETA: I just noticed on V2 and the new LL beta viewer that the username is not shown in that position so it may not be shown on other viewers but I'm pretty sure it shows there on Firestorm & Phoenix. Oh, thanks for alerting me about that. I don't know of any website that stores someones username except SL and it's viewer. Why do they do that? I have no idea why, as it's not needed, and no other websites do that that I can think of. All other websites or games I currently play you have to type in username every time, along with password. I hope the FS beta volunteers remove that as well. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But, it certainly could help to keep people's username private, as that (other than keylogging/hacking) is the No. 1 reason that leads to cybercrimes -- username plus real life info. As far as the OP and her personal links and such, and I don't want to get involved nor open any links nor read any blogs or websites about it. So, I am commenting in general terms.

Void Singer wrote: in answer to the question in the title: No. I think LL's only responsibility to help prevent a possible cyberbullying attack is to allow the username to be taken out of the viewer and not store their username in the viewer. Firestorm beta has done this; made the new FS beta viewer not store your username. I say a viewer should not store a username because imagine some teenagers. A teenager makes rl "friends". I say friends in quote because let's say the first teenager in question doesn't know this new "friend" or "friends" very well, but invites them over to their house. Teenagers love to gather around a computer. While the teenager who has a viewer downloaded on their computer, all someone has to do to get the username is to open the SL viewer. Once a supposed "friend" has a username, they could turn on dime and start the crimes as mentioned in my information post on the current laws in the USA as they know the teenagers rl info. I have to applaud FS beta for making it a viewer where the name is not stored. I think LL should follow with that on their final release of their viewer, but I doubt they will. Once FS is out of beta, I will be switching to FS so my username will not be in full view and so easily accessable as just my rl bf and I live here and we don't want to create username accounts for our computers as it's a hassle, imo. So, I do applaud you FS beta volunteers for doing that as I see no need to store someone's username in a viewer. Once someone has username and rl name, that just opens the door for this kind of thing to happen. But, other's are very right in this thread, don't give out any info that is very personal. Also, delete, block spam from your email. Do not respond to the links, just keep deleting spam, and repeat 50 million times. I also wanted to state that I said call the Police if you live in the USA because they are the ones who would determine if a cyber crime indeed happened, not me. I don't know anything about this person or their situation, and I'm not going to any other websites just to find out. The only thing LL could do is not store username. But, since they won't, FS will be for me once it's complete.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: And I repeated your mistake and I do know how many states there in the US. It happens...... LOL, I know. He was thinking Puerto Rico was a state after we just discussed this and when I opened a new window and looked up the correct information. I miss Windows XP a little bit. I'm trying to get used to Windows 7. I'm sure I'll get there sooner than later, but I kind of liked XP. ETA: And, I think you and I Peggy are trying to say "bleep" happens. Well, when it's murder and premeditated, there are laws. Also, FB is now connected to SL, sort of.

I'm giving out generalized information, as I said I know nothing of what happened to her. However, there are key loggers and hackers on any website, and LL will need to address the authorities, not me or you, as hacking/kl happens. To help avoid this, just don't open websites you've never heard of. Well known, established names should be okay, such as ABC, BBC, CNBC, etc. Use common sense when on the computer, and especially in regards to "links". Just don't open them.

Storm Clarence wrote: Mayalily wrote: I don't know what happened with you, but if you live in the USA you can call the Police, as in all 51 states, cyberstalking, cyberharassment and cyberbullying are misdemeanors or felonies in all 51 of the U.S. states. /me blinks And who said we can't never learn on this forum? I went out for a quick cocktail or two, and we grew by a whole state. I told the bartender to cut me off after three; he failed. I think I need to burn my atlas. LOL! That was funny! I'm new to this Windows 7 and it took me forever to figure out how to bring up the other Window to do a copy and paste! Let me fix that, as I asked my rl bf if there were 50 or 51 states in the USA as I didn't want to try working another "window", and he said 51. I didn't double check because of using this new Windows system. Anyhow, in my post, that is official information in the 50 U.S. states on a state-by-state basis as far as the laws go now, though I do know that California is going for some very "tough" ones.

Harlee Fallen wrote: Hi Everyone, Everyday i hear on the news the sadly another young person has taken there life due to cyber bullying...whether it be VIA facebook...twitter ..or second life, i honestly feel not enough is done to scare these 'trolls' ...i am personally a victim of cyber bullying...on second life and i feel like i have been 'failed' many times by the system...in the below link i have written my ordeal aswell as a link for people to make donations against serious anti-cyber bully laws....i want to somehow incorperate that into second life.. I feel as if there should be stricter laws against second life cyber bullying whether its on blogs chat feeds or anything...harassment is harassment. *link removed you can i.m me inworld or on here for the link* I don't know what happened with you, but if you live in the USA you can call the Police, as in all 50 states, cyberstalking, cyberharassment and cyberbullying are misdemeanors or felonies in all 50 of the U.S. states. People were speaking about "law" or "laws" here in this thread as if they do not exist, when in fact, they do in the USA. California is going for tougher ones. What these people don't pay for in this life, or second life, I believe they will pay for in the afterlife, as it is purely premeditated murder on their minds and no one can change my mind about that one. And, no the cyberbullies do not stop if you ignore them, that is why there are laws. You can also file a civil lawsuit and receive damages. I'd think the parents could do that also. However, as far as SL, it is somewhat anonymous unless you get a hacker or a key logger for example. It's best to only open links that say .org, and I think Wiki's are pretty safe, but don't open any links if you are unsure what they are. That is why outside links are not allowed on here because there are too many posters trying to post links that will key log you, etc. http://www.ncsl.org/default.aspx?tabid=13495 The above is a safe AND official link to the USA's dot.org information on cyberstalking, cyberharassment and cyberbullying, and the consequences in each State. Once you call the Police, it is up to LL to release the IP information and other information on the person in question. In other words, LL has no other choice than to cooperate with the authorities.

Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Couldn't you copy and paste the IM into a notecard, and then pass that notecard to the sim owner? Perhaps the sim owner will put in a temporary ban until the underage is investigated? But, I think you said the person in question is now not underage, so perhaps people could do this for other underager's? (Send copy/paste of evidence to the sim owner in a notecard). that could get the one passing that information into trouble..especially if it were about minors rl information.. that can earn someone a perma ban if LL picked up on that log while investigating.. they get real touchy about minors information and disclosure of it.. maybe telling the sim owner about the person and that you have already AR'd under the suspicion of them being under aged would be better.. i mean someone can tell us they are under aged..but that doesn't mean it's true..some people rp that deep to give the impression that they are really younger than they are.. that information may not even be the information of the one claiming to be younger.. and also..do we really know who we are giving the information to? maybe they have alts that are into kids..not saying that is the case..i'm just saying it's not a good idea to pass that info along if it is found to be valid rl information hehehe if LL chooses to ignore it then maybe the information did not check out and they were actually lying about thier age hehehe this may be why nothing was done about the age part of it if they were being AR'd when they were claiming to be too young to be on those sections.. erotic age play..now thats a different ballgame..they are doing that with their avatar and avatar name and profile and everything else that shows them playing a child..real proof can be found about that..AR them and also tell the sim owner.. Yes, that makes more sense. But, if, as the OP stated, the person was on since 2007, this could have been just someone playing games with the OP. Why people would do that, I have no idea? But, logically, 2007 is a very long time for nothing to have been done, so it logically points to the fact they weren't underage...? There have been a couple of threads about this now, and it seems some people like to freak others out simply to do just that, freak someone out.

Couldn't you copy and paste the IM into a notecard, and then pass that notecard to the sim owner? Perhaps the sim owner will put in a temporary ban until the underage is investigated? But, I think you said the person in question is now not underage, so perhaps people could do this for other underager's? (Send copy/paste of evidence to the sim owner in a notecard).

I don't block gesturbater's...I use bubble chat A LOT! I love bubble chat as it puts the constant gesturing over the avatar's head, and you can still read what you want to read when it's in the bubble and ignore the repetitive gestures in the other bubbles. I keep gesture sound off. Blocking/muting would have to be griefing or breaking the TOS for me.

Jo Yardley wrote: We play 20s music all the time, all from my personal collection And we have plenty of jobs, earlier today I was paying children in cigarettes to clean tables If you become a performer and set up some kind of 1920s suitable performance (lots of modern dancing going on back then) you're welcome to perform in Berlin. Artists are very well tipped. Oh, thank you Jo. I've been meaning to stop by but don't have the wardrobe to visit yet. You know Jo, it's interesting, that I was thinking of trying to recreate something from the movie "Cabaret" with Liza Minelli. I love that movie and the music and history like you do! Things that are choregraphed and historic would be so much fun for me as I love music, art, history, dance; however, do a lot of people like that? I don't really know as I haven't seen too much of that on SL yet, but now with my new computer I finally have a working destination guide! I'd also love to go to an opera show set in old Vienna or something like that, also. I'd love to see "shows" and be involved in something historic and something that I don't get to see, hear or do everyday. Send me an IM and let me know what I'm supposed to wear, ok? Thanks, Jo!

I've been here since March and it can get a little boring at times to be honest. I'm here for the music and I find a lot of Dj's play too much of the same music over and over, so I left those kinds of clubs, and have been fortunate enough to find people who truly love music, even back to the 20's, 30's, 40's, all of it. I get to hear music on SL, that I can't hear anywhere else. The problem is most places that offer jobs, the music is not my cup of tea. I'd love to find a job. I'm thinking about a Las Vegas showgirl. lolz. I can just imagine wearing one of those enormous hats; would be kind of funny. When I feel a little bored with SL, I go looking on Marketplace and that usually perks me up. I love Marketplace and some people hate it, but I love browsing in Marketplace because it's so fast! I don't think role playing is for me, but I love dancing... and I'd love to see more dance art here. I have choregraphed amazing dances to music in my dreams my whole life, and would love to find some more 'art of dance' here on SL. Something choregraphed and beautiful. SL seems to miss the 'art' of dance for me, yet I do have some dances that are well done. But, Erin, if you are burned out, just take a break, and discover another passion you love to do. I wish you the best!

I read a little of the article, but I recall that if you're 36" across the bust, you should be 36" across the hips, with waist tinier of course. Or, if you're 38" across the top, the hips should be 38" and so forth. This is how to help determine a good figure when trying to get "into shape" as they say, bust and hips should be the same. I don't remember where I heard that, but I did! I used to sew also, so I kind of remember bust/hips being the same talked about as the perfect ratio. My bust and hips are almost the same in real life (maybe a half inch off or so), and I think that is fairly normal. Now take, a 36 bust/36 hips, cup size could still vary, same with a 32/32. Anyhow, I thought this was going to be about the avatars because I do notice the breast shapes look like the push bra shape and it takes time to get rid of that look as I have my separation set at 0 right now and I hardly get any separation of the breasts on my avatar. It's like they are built for push-bra shape and pushed together shape and it's difficult to get the avatar breasts to look "natural". I'm not having any boob jobs in real life. I would never do that, ever. Aging is aging.

Dillon Levenque wrote: I must say I had hoped the General Discussion Forum would be the place that Nature v Nurture would be settled once and for all, but it appears the debate will continue. Nature v Nuture in regards to anything... that can never be "settled". The combinations of nature and the impact the environment could have on us are infinite.

From first reading, the article sounds like a bunch of crook. Everyone's body chemistry is different, and it depends on what other drugs are combined (some combinations are lethal) as the main reasons for an individual's reaction to "drugs" including alcohol, not our culture. Also, some "drugs" are cooked on the street in people's kitchens and no one knows what is in all of those as there are far too many home run kitchens, especially crack or meth houses. I've heard there are some home houses for XTC as well. She left out way too many known facts for me to want to believe she knew what she was talking about and she didn't even cite any studies or references to her research. Also, as far as cannibas, there was so much "lacing" the pot in the 60's and 70's with other drugs called "angel dust" or other names, and who knows what those drugs were or what combinations that caused the paranoia. There are too many unknowns here to base any of her story on culture because of street-made drugs. ETA: After getting some sleep, yes that article is a bunch of crook. Alcohol like any other "drug" (she doesn't specify other drugs) impairs the neocortex (the adult thinking brain) and the person is left to be in their child-like brain, the amygala, when using alcohol period.

This thread is too funny! That candy corn one was TRUE! lmao! This is my favorite Monty Python -- The Argument Clinic

Ann Otoole wrote: The trick for grey avatars is to change to a different group and back. This forces a redraw and the avis will then rez in. Thanks Ann, yay I got it fixed. I was trying to change my tag yesterday but wouldn't work. Today I checked under preferences and noticed my group tag area unchecked, so I rechecked that and the grey is gone, and my group tag is back and working. SL looks like a movie now, and on this amazing computer I can sort of see why they are trying mesh clothing because on this amazing computer the clothes look very painted on and sort of 2D as the textures are so flat or something. I don't know how to explain it exactly. On computers like these, I think mesh clothing would look like a real movie; however, I don't want to lose my shape, so as far as mesh clothing for me, it's going to be a toss up. I think I will try an outfit from my favorite designer in SL now and see how that looks on this amazing custom built machine. I still have no lag whatsoever.

Yes, that is a very helpful explanation. However, even on this incredible custom built machine, I still get a few grey bots (I call them bots even tho I know they are supposed to be called avi's because they remind me of robots). Yesterday was my first day running this machine and it is amazing to view SL like that with the beautiful swaying of the fabrics and my avatar just glides around. It's incredible! I just wanted to state it's not perfect though, as I got a few (2 to 3) here and there of grey bots and a few with grey faces, and even changing my tag several times didn't clear away all of the grey on a few, but all my preferences are not set yet and I didn't have time to check my avatar imposters, and a few other things, as I was having difficulty with sound yesterday, but my rl bf tweaked the speakers this morning and the sound is back! But, to the OP, you can get so much more computer for your money if you get a custom build by an independant builder as the parts are far superior to the junk they put in the premade bundles because these companies want the cheapest junk possible so that they can put billions of dollars of money into their own pockets. I'm getting an incredible build, just incredible for about $400.00. That same build by a company would probably cost $2,000 dollars with most going to the CEO. Check out local builders in your area before you jump on the brandname bangwagon. That's my opinion. p.s. It would cost more, but I'm getting no charge for labor to build it. I'd say you could get a $2,000 computer for about $600 t with some cost for labor. Check around and see what builders are charging for labor, as remember they do have to order everything and then build it, etc. ETA: Our ISP is not the greatest, so that could the reason for the grey "bots" or greying. We are getting our ISP changed soon, but we are waiting for the build to be done for a test run. If we like it, we are getting another build, only more custom for my bf for his music that he writes (he needs a sound card or something....? I don't know what he needs, but his will be for music software to write music by.) GO CUSTOM BUILDERS! This rocks! And, Windows 7 software at $120 dollars can go into two computers, so that's $60.00 per computer for Windows 7. Just an FYI on Windows 7 if you buy the software, it's for two computers.

Ann Otoole wrote: The html textures option will help load textures faster if you have enough bandwidth. However it will not help much when the region is full of 1024*1024 textures. Just takes too long to load. People will leave rather than stand there for 30 minutes hoping the region loads. Mesh was supposed to help but the prim cost is so high all mesh will be used for is wearable clothing where prim cost does not count. Having a great computer helps with client side lag. But the region lag that was introduced a couple of weeks ago is really bad. In empty regions time dilation remains below .95, region FPS remains below 43, frame time remains above 23.4, etc. This region lag is the same as having 100 avatars in the region. Everything runs more slowly. LL should have a fix out for it soon but I am beginning to wonder about that as I have been monitoring it and have observed no improvements. LL is making changes to their server operating systems and that could be causing even more issues. I, personally, don't like the mesh clothes because I want my shape. Now a mini skirt I might consider to get rid of those patches that go over the mini skirts/dresses, but I don't have a big butt in rl and I don't want one in SL! I fear the mesh clothing with the alpha layers will be designed with this huge butt even if it's a mini skirt. So, I'm not excited at all about mesh clothes as I don't want this ginormous buttocks. Now I won't mind mesh if it's in the background to reduce lag, but if it's too expensive, that's a lot to ask for this type of terrible economy. Also, there needs to be a button added so we can set RenderVolumeLod so it will stay where we need it so we can view our non mesh furniture without it looking like sticks! This RVLod needs to be addressed by LL. All they need to do is add some type of button on the RVLod so we can set it to where older items don't look like a bunch of sticks. Even on this incredible computer, I have to set my RVL the same as my old computer for non-stick viewing at 2.350. As far as large textures, what can they do when SL is user content created?

Ann Otoole wrote: Scripts have no effect on old or new computers. If the region is lagging (currently because of a defect related to scripts that is soon to be fixed) then there is absolutely nothing you can do about it client side. Region lag canot be fixed with faster client computers. Faster clients and faster connections deal with streamed content. Not server side processing. Dear everyone: Currently there is a defect LL is fixing. Give LL a week or two OK? Well, there have been debates here for months that scripts cause lag and then some sims started to send out messages -- you have too many scripts running to enter. Not to mention that many clubs have been chim pooling for months to try to help reduce scripts from everyone having a chim running, or they have line dances now to encourage people to put their avatar on a line dance rather than everyone running their own chim. All this has been happening over the Summer. I notice lag when I wear unkilled scripted hair when I go shopping, as opposed to when I put on a hair where I have killed the scripts, same with skirts, jewelry, etc. A lot of items are resizer now which I noticed over the past two weeks with more and more items being listed as resizer. Now resizer is good in some ways because when you delete, they all vanish. However, most non-resizer jewelry items run far less scripts than the lowest AO or a chim with 10-12 dances. I can wear about 4 to 5 non-resizer jewelry items and have less scripts than in an average AO or chim. However, hud shoes have thousands of scripts and on older computers oft times won't even rez people's feet; thus it's logical that the older graphics card or some graphics card are "killing" the non-killed scripted items because it's too much for the graphics card to handle, especially as there are thousands of scripts in hud shoes. It's logical if your graphic's card is killing the feet (I have danced many times without feet and so have other avi's). The above is info on how my computer runs. However, I am on a family member's computer right now and it has a very good graphics card plus three cooling fans, and SL looks amazing. The flow of the clothes is magnificent, and it looks 10X more "real" simply because of the flow of things and it's very fast for teleporting, and I experienced no lag even with this JIRA about this "bug" and it possibly being fixed in a week or two. On this family member's computer, there is no lag as it's got an excellent graphics card and fabulous cooling system. However, let me put on some really massive scripted items with no kill, and I'll see how I'll do. LOL If people can't afford a new computer, you can add a new harddrive, graphics card, better cooling system, add Windows 7 and pay a lot just to upgrade, or just get a new computer which is a better buy because than Windows 7 is not that expensive with a rebuilt bundle. Windows 8 is already in beta, so XP's demise is on the horizon eventually and Windows 7 cost about $120.00 alone, so it's worth it to just get a new tower if you don't know how to build yourself. It's worth it just for a better SL, as well as a better ISP. The difference between this family member's computer with better graphics and cooling is day to night in comparison to my older computer. I don't want to update my build because it was a pre-packaged build. I'm going the custom route so I can upgrade a lot easier as time goes by, and I didn't want to upgrade my computer and than have to pay $120 just for Windows 7 when XP becomes a dinasaur. It seems better just to start over with a custom that can more easily be upgraded. Run an ad in your local area and find a reputable computer builder; they can buy amazing parts for a whole lot less than companies who build computers with cheap junk so the CEO can make bizillions of dollars. Find someone in your local neighborhood to build, and you will get so much more "computer" for your money and not have to please any stock holders. Also, can't the texture problems be somewhat helped with that html texture thing being unchecked to help reduce the lag?

Mayalily wrote: Void Singer wrote: scripts that are idle or not actively affecting physical properties or external communications do NOT cause region lag. they can cause other scripts to lag, but that's it. their usage is capped, and the first one to suffer if either the physics engine or server I/O starts to drop (because those both are scheduled first and throttle the whole region) Region lag is most affected by: Physics (avatars, vehicles, anything that changes shape or position) Communications (anything that must be sent to the user from the region, or is sent off the region) on the user side there is also: Dowload lag (AKA rez lag), caused by too many and too large of textures, large changes in scenery, and poor network connections render lag (aka scene chopiness) usually caused by an underpowered machine/graphics card, but can also be caused by too complex of scenes each one going down of those 4 affects the ones below it. Where did I say scripts were "idle"? I never said that. What does cause lag, is inadequate cooling system and bad internet connections as a few others have said. This is not to say the beta viewers are ready yet, but they are okay in some aspects. Anyhow Void, scripts can be a problem for older machines perhaps. I don't know if scripts cause lag as much as they can and do cause whole sims to crash. I've seen it happen a few times. It's not easy to fit those resizer things, and I don't want to kill the scripts until I get it right. Also, I had items I was wearing with scripts that didn't say scripts in the description, so I didn't even know there were scripts in the items. Now, more items are being described as "scripted" or "resizer" and some are still not being described as resizer even though they are. That bracelet wasn't cheap, and it didn't work well, as the edit did not light up as an option. I do at least hope I can get it to fit IF the edit light will come on if I wait long enough. Anyhow, hud shoes have a lot of scripts, but I don't really care to get into a long debate about it. Just fit the darn things and kill the scripts.

Void Singer wrote: scripts that are idle or not actively affecting physical properties or external communications do NOT cause region lag. they can cause other scripts to lag, but that's it. their usage is capped, and the first one to suffer if either the physics engine or server I/O starts to drop (because those both are scheduled first and throttle the whole region) Region lag is most affected by: Physics (avatars, vehicles, anything that changes shape or position) Communications (anything that must be sent to the user from the region, or is sent off the region) on the user side there is also: Dowload lag (AKA rez lag), caused by too many and too large of textures, large changes in scenery, and poor network connections render lag (aka scene chopiness) usually caused by an underpowered machine/graphics card, but can also be caused by too complex of scenes each one going down of those 4 affects the ones below it. Where did I say scripts were "idle"? I never said that. What does cause lag, is inadequate cooling system and bad internet connections as a few others have said. This is not to say the beta viewers are ready yet, but they are okay in some aspects.

It's probably unkilled scripts causing the most lag. I spent about 2 hours the other day just trying to fit one outfit and the jewelry and then kill the scripts. Some jewelry is coming with resizers now and so are some skirts and whole outfits. I find the resizers a bit of a pain and the bracelet I bought only resizes on one side while the other side is huge. I think I may be able to move the bracelet with the edit as I did a skirt, fix that bracelet and then delete the scripts (hopefully) so that this isn't wasted money on the bracelet because it's unuseable as it is right now with one side huge. Too many things are being created with scripts, imo, where people are resizing as best as possible or giving up on a good fit, so not killing the scripts. One pair of hud shoes I have (which I don't use) has over 2,500 scripts running. Maybe they need to create self-destrucing scripts if users don't delete their scripts. That would be helpful! I'd say the hud shoes are the worst problem.

Peggy Paperdoll wrote: How many people who use routers lock those routers down. Meaning blocking any device from accessing the router and gaining access to the Internet (called "piggybacking on someone elses connection")? If you have a router and it's less than about 8 years old, it's also wireless.....even if you are connected via an Ethernet cable. Any Joe walking down the street with a cell phone/smart phone capable of Internet connections wirelessly can see in a matter of a few seconds if someone has a router not locked down........now he knows where you are and that he can gain access to the Internet using your access (your router). If that person is one of those a$$ holes that everyone wants banned from SL he's free to do as he pleases................and you suffer the consequences (not him.......he's scott free). AT&T has a new password modem/router wireless deal where hackers and/or neighbors can't do this any longer, and I'm sure other companies do as well, though would prefer not to say on the internet which one I use. However, for people with old modem/routers, just call your ISP and ask if you can get one of their new boxes that use a password which keeps the neighbor's children from trying to access your wireless. ETA: If someone comes to your house to visit and is on a laptop, just give them your password and then they can use their laptop in your home.

Kylie Jaxxon wrote: valerie Inshan wrote: Awesome shots there Kylie! Dang, where the heck did you get that sweater? I just love it!!! Got it at NV Madworld...sorry, don't have the LM but they're in search. Also got this one too...I adore both :smileywink: Beautiful sweater coats, Kylie! I want both to wear in rl as in Southern California, I've never owned a coat. I own some sweater coats and some capes for my ala Stevie Nicks real life wardrobe. Those sweater capes are just so cozy and warm to wrap up in like a blanket. I hate coats, they are so stiff and I feel like I can't move. Santa please, I want this for Christmas (real life, Santa).

This thread was roll on the floor funny, though I've only gotten half way through because You Tube kept timing out on my me last night. I got through Sy's which I found hysterically funny (pun intended, lol). @ Stella, speaking of cake, Rita Rudner had a good one> "When I was a kid we mixed water and flour and got glue. Then, when I grew up, if I added sugar and eggs, I got cake. When I was eating the cake, I was wondering how they got the glue out?" Rita Rudner _______________ Speaking of glue and cake, I don't think they got the glue out, as if you eat cake, it will remain glued to your body until death and cake do you part! ~ Mayalily