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Mayalily

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Everything posted by Mayalily

  1. Perrie Juran wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: From the LL TOS Section 4 You acknowledge that you will be exposed to various aspects of the Service involving the conduct, Content, and services of users, and that Linden Lab does not control and is not responsible or liable for the quality, safety, legality, truthfulness or accuracy of any such user conduct, User Content, or user services. You acknowledge that Linden Lab does not guarantee the accuracy of information submitted by any user of the Service, nor any identity information about any user. Your interactions with other users and your use and purchase of User Content or user services are entirely at your own risk. From Section 5 of the LL TOS: Linden Lab makes no guarantee as to the nature, quality or value of the features of the Service that will be accessible through the use of Linden dollars. So unless you are paying a merchant directly with your paypal account directly to their paypal account paypal offers no protection to you and LL doesn't have to make it up to you either as you agreed to this when you used SL. If you have a VIsa and use it to buy things in RL store, you are protected under whatever protection VIsa offers. But if you use the visa to get cash from an ATM and then use the cash in the store, visa offers you no protection. LL will never allow direct payment to merchants because they make money when you buy lindens and the merchant sells them for RL money. If they allowed direct payment, then that entire revenue stream would be cut off. You read things and think they mean what you WANT them to mean not what they actually mean. The TOS trumps every 'protection" you are alleging that PayPal offers because you agreed that LL has no liability to you in this regard when you created an account here. Even if LL got complete identifying RL information on every person in SL, and you got ripped off they are not going to give it to you nor are they going to give you the lindens back or give you what you paid for. So PIOF is useless to you. You can argue the point until the cows come home, but you have so far not offered one valid reason to require PIOF for anybody other than something you've made up in your own mind and are so desperate to hold onto that you completely ignore the facts. Here is the one touchy phrase in this equation: "Linden Lab makes no guarantee as to the nature, quality or value of the features of the Service that will be accessible through the use of Linden dollars." This is what I am not sure about because purchases can be made on the Market Place using PayPal or a Credit Card. When you make a purchase on E Bay, your payment through PayPal does not go through E Bay. It goes directly to the merchant. But in the case of the Market Place, You can make a purchase using PayPal or a Credit Card. You pay Linden Lab, not the seller. Linden Lab transfers the funds to the seller. It's been too dang long since I worked in retail mgt so I don't remember all the details, but basically speaking, when you sign up to receive payment via Credit Card you sign an agreement with the Credit Card Company that says essentially their terms supersede your terms. So it is interesting to note that section 5 only mentions using Lindens and does not mention purchases via pay pal or credit card. The devil is in the details here but because LL makes a profit as the facilitator of the purchase they may not be completely immune. I dealt several times with disputed charges and it was always a pain in the butt, but not every disputed claim flew with the CC company. Again, the devil was in the details. I think this one may really need a lawyer to decipher. I can see points on both sides of the equation. Why does the TOS not mention Credit Cards and Paypal? We know that Linden Labs attorneys always err on the side of caution. That would be a huge oversight on their part. But back to the other point, POIF still will not protect the buyer in and of itself in SL. p.s. I removed my previous post cause I got to thinking about this a little more. No, under the current TOS, it is completely buyer beware as it also says where I posted above they (LL) can remove "any content", and it doesn't explain what "any content" is. It's just any content LL wishes to remove, even on innocent people. What I was suggesting was IF SL went Paypal, then the TOS WOULD CHANGE obviously. That is what I was talking about (about a better SL), but my point seems to be completely lost on some people. I don't find it a particularly "good" business practice to deal with people who, like the OP said, are "ghosts". Also, I can't think of too many lawyers who would take a case of stolen content on SL if it were a mere few hundred dollars. The cost for the lawyer and paying courtroom time and all of that falls upon the seller, not LL or the buyer. The seller would, in most cases, I'd suspect have to pay more for a lawyer than the amount of what they lost. However, with Paypal, a seller can be banned, that's the main reason Paypal is better, but too many people want a "ghost" market and a buyer beware market because there is no transparency in SL in regards to sellers.
  2. Perrie Juran wrote: Mayalily wrote: Perrie Juran wrote: Mayalily wrote: There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans. The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back! And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source. But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system. IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money. But it doesn't. And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place. You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc? While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid. IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK. And to reiterate what I said above, if your concern is being protected as a consumer, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds. You can't now under the TOS. The TOS here 4.4 If properly notified, Linden Lab responds to complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property. Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement. It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances. We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our Intellectual Property Policy. Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe. ______ Notice the word ANY, I suppose that means those who just merely shop. Also, my Paypal point has been ungoing through the thread in that SL would be better if Second Life were all Paypal as unsuspecting buyer's could then be protected. As for solar, your points are pointless, so talk to the hand. Or as we say here where I live, and I say to Solar.... "whatever". "You can't now under the TOS. The TOS here" You can't what? You can't file a claim with your financial institution? My son purchased a used cell phone on E bay. Payed for it via Pay Pal. When he tried to activate the phone he was informed that the phone had been reported stolen and was unable to activate it. He reported this both to E Bay and PayPal. E Bay suspended the sellers account pending investigation and Pay Pal refunded his money. And as others have pointed out above, despite your misreading of the TOS, there is still nothing in there that stops you from filing a claim with your financial institution. (Actually, I do no what the possible stopper is but I also know how to avoid that stopper. But I'll leave that for you to figure out). Yes, but all seller's are Paypal now, and Paypal and eBay have a good policy that protects the purchaser's against this kind of thing... that's what I've been talking about. See, if SL were all Paypal.. actually, I give up. We were earlier talking about as RyOta has suggested putting a buyer beware on Marketplace... remember?... earlier in the thread... I give up.
  3. Perrie Juran wrote: Mayalily wrote: There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans. The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. So then what is you worry as a consumer on SL????? The next time LL removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen just file a claim with Paypal or your Credit Card Company and get your money back! And then use your recovered funds to buy the item from the legitimate source. But really your posts show a lack of understanding of how payment protection plans work overall and who gets hurt in the system. IfCredit Card Protection actually worked the way that you think it works then Linden Lab would set it up because they have a vested interest in protecting their money. But it doesn't. And given the difficulties in verifying non U.S. accounts many legitimate non U.S. creators could find themselves shut out of the Market Place. You think that Linden Lab is intentionally trying to make it difficult for non U.S. folks to arrange for ways to buy Linden Dollars, Pay tier, verify, etc? While we may feel that Linden Lab does some very dumb things from time to time they are not that stupid. IT IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS YOU THINK. And to reiterate what I said above, if your concern is being protected as a consumer, and if the system works the way that you think it works, then the next time Linden Lab removes an item from your inventory because it was stolen, file a claim with your financial institution and then go and purchase the item from the legitimate seller with your retrieved funds. You can't now under the TOS. The TOS here 4.4 If properly notified, Linden Lab responds to complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property. Intellectual property infringement on the Service is a violation of this Terms of Service, and you agree not to engage in such infringement. It is our policy to respond to notices of alleged copyright infringement that comply with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act and to terminate the accounts of repeat infringers in appropriate circumstances. We operate an intellectual property complaint process for complaints that User Content infringes another's intellectual property, the details of which are available in our Intellectual Property Policy. Linden Lab reserves the right to disable, delete or terminate, without notice, any user's Content or access to the Service if that user is determined by Linden Lab to infringe or repeatedly infringe. ______ Notice the word ANY, I suppose that means those who just merely shop. Also, my Paypal point has been ungoing through the thread in that SL would be better if Second Life were all Paypal as unsuspecting buyer's could then be protected. As for solar, your points are pointless, so talk to the hand. Or as we say here where I live, and I say to Solar.... "whatever".
  4. Ceka Cianci wrote: Tari Landar wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Innula Zenovka wrote: Cat Slade wrote: And to above posters - there are plenty of viewers that don't 'see' mesh yet. LL's 1.23 doesn't see mesh, and neither does Imprudence (I think) nor old versions of Phoenix. Which other ones don't? ya i see a lot of people that didn't even know that a phoenix upgrade would be letting them see mesh..a lot think they have to switch to the newer viewers to see it .. so most may be just an upgrade away from seeing mesh.. Yep, that's the biggest "culprit" of all, imo. If you honestly don't believe there are plenty of people out there using a viewer that cannot see mesh, I don't know what to tell you. Oo how in th world are people seeing me say something i didn't say? how does me saying.."I see a lot of people that didn't even know they were an upgrade away from seeing mesh".. come off as.."people just need to upgrade their viewers"? Let me try this one more time lol i see a lot of people that did not know they could see mesh with their V1 viewer..that they are only an upgrade away.....because they were not aware that V1's could see mesh.. I didn't know they upgraded V1 to mesh until I read this. Why on Earth did LL put us through all that waste of time with the V2 and V3 viewers when they just could have upgraded? How many "bugs" on the mesh V1 viewer? On topic here, I agree with the OP that the presentation on MP looks cruddy and they could be a little more artistic. Presentation is a lot in the business world. And, the presentation on Mp and on the LL opening website is dull, has old looking avatars, etc. LL presents itself as if they don't care, especially in their photos. But while fixing bugs is more important, good presentation is just that good presentation.
  5. Solar Legion wrote: Who am I? I am someone who understands where her "rights" end and everyone else's begin, unlike you. Do you want to entrust anything related to your finances to a company that has been hacked three times now? How about a company where their customers regularly have their accounts hacked into? No other gaming/entertainment comany allows you to directly dump your real money into their service - aside from Turbine. No other gaming/entertainment company allows you to cash that same money back OUT. I'm not here to make money - I grew up long ago and realized that deriving an income from SL on any level was quite silly. Do your homework yourself - Better yet, try looking through the old archives. I've been here long enough to know that there are users unable to get what Linden Lab wants as payment information. I have also been here long enough to know that the people clamouring for this sort of utter drek are the ones that have never had to deal with bad credit, hacked accounts (no matter the strength of their password) or any other sort of financial hardship. They can all go off and make their own bloody grid. And do keep to the facts - several in this thread have brought forth requiring payment information for everyone. You have no right to demand or "suggest" that anyone put their financial information (whatever that may be) in any sort of danger whatsoever. And that is all I am saying on it - to you and to the others who presume to put others' security above their own. Welcome to Second Life - if you have a problem "buying from unknown sellers" - get out. There is no danger if an account is hacked as credit cards and Paypal take care of that with buyer protection plans. The credit card company may lose money, but the hackee won't. Also, on Paypal you don't put your main household account bank on there, you open a very small business account and keep the balance like $1.00 just to keep the account open. If there is no balance on your bank excpet an amount like one dollar, what are they going to hack -- some lindens? Well, that could happen to everyone, so what is the difference? You are more protected with a credit card or Paypal. If someone hacks into a credit card and charges upteem hundreds of dollars worth of stuff on SL, there IS A protection plan for that and no money of anyone's is lost except to the credit card company. Credit cards are far better for online use BECAUSE they have that protection. My pattern and budget stays regular on SL every single month, so credit card companies and Paypal can see that right away if suddenly hundreds of dollars were charged, not to mention it's the safest way to do business on the internet. You simply transfer your money out of Paypal the day it becomes available for transfer, but simply leave $1.00 in there just to keep the bank used on your Paypal open. Banks NOT through Paypal do not care unless it's caught like perhaps within a day or two. I've mentioned Paypal because at least the consumer's is protected and able to file a claim up to 45 days to retrieve their stolen monies back or if merchandise got taken out of their inventory that they paid for. ETA: Just looked up some things on Paypal, and Paypal user's can have up to 60 days to file a claim against items that we paid for that could suddenly go missing from our inventory. So your point is invalid, especially since credit cards are the safest way to protect against hacking and fraud. And, yes, I do believe that everyone should be age verified, full name, address, phone number, driver's license, the whole nine yards as this is a business that does exchange very real money. So, I say that and that's my feeling about it. Is my feeling and thinking actually going to hurt you? No, it isn't. You are responsible for your reactions or over-reactions to another's POV on this subject.
  6. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: No, it wasn't an invitation to insult you, but you were rambling all over the place and sounded like you drank a bunch of egg nog, and then replied something like "oh, logo's are cool on sunglasses"... when I never even suggested putting any logos on anything on the outside. Don't you know underwear and baldcaps are not something usually seen, nor do they even have to be worn, but could be just included in each folder, as I WROTE, but felt you didn't even read. You said you were so tired, but if you are that tired why are you debating when it's obvious you are not even reading? I decided not to read your posts, Ceka, as they were completely disjointed and all over the place, and then the answers had nothing to do with what I wrote. As far as seller's having to use their email from their ISP, that is a good start. Maybe. However, I don't see how seller's can expect us to trust them when they want to hide. I had been thinking the same thing the other poster wrote. Also, with Paypal you can transfer the money out right away and you simply get another checking account that is just for Paypal and your business. What's the big deal about this? You can't get a little small bank account? This is what I'm wondering about some of these poster's who respond. Or you can't get a small credit card with say a $200 dollar limit? And if you seller's don't trust LL with their money, why should purchaser's? when i make content i make it for me not anyone else..not unless they ask me for it..mostly custom work which i am done with now days.. i am just a customer like you are.. myself i am not gonna depend on them watching out for me..i'm gonna watch out for myself.. since i came here in 2006 not one piece of botted stolen content has entered my inventory..the reason for that is i have always been an aware smart shopper..i knew the net was not a safe place when i came into this world.. and it was easy to see that SL was a haven for everything ..even the bad guys.. want a quick answer for your logo fix? botted items are stolen by mostly a special viewer..it means they swoop in with a viewer and can take the whole store or everything in the sim with one click.. when they steal that outfit..they will be stealing that logo underwear or bald cap as well and all the note cards in the vender and even the vender if they choose.. they can walk up to any avatar and steal your whole look and every item you are wearing..shape,skin,hair ect.. let me show you something that will give you a better idea of exactly how they steal this stuff..then you may have a better understanding of just how content theft will not be going away..NPIOF or PIOF or PIU..it doesn't matter.. just pay attention to what this guy does..don't worry about their mission the guy is on..it's old news..just look at what he does and how easy it is for these guys to get what they want..you will see how putting anything on a prim will not be an indicator of original content that would detour these guys because they can take that indicator as well and still put it in the item and up for sale.. click this Yeah, but if seller's use MP, you couldn't have two Gothic Catz stores. They could copybot for themselves, but could they resell the Gothic Catz logoed items on MP if there already is a Gothic Catz store on MP? You are probably thinking well they could just change the logo on the underwear or the baldcap. That maybe true. However, still my first point is valid that seller's put right on their picture their username, date it was created, and state not a full perm item. Seller's are going to need to find some kind of way to copyright their items and not on a hardrive that could crash. Also, I still say ALL residents should be verified. If seller's don't trust LL with a small business account they could very easily set up, my point still stands that why should a customer? Anyhow, here is a link on how to copyright original internet created items for sell on the internet. If you don't want to open my link, simply type in your Google search bar "how to copyright original internet creations" and creator's should find some answers. And the link does mention logos, so I am a lot smarter than people give me credit for. Heck, I thought of the logos myself before I just checked for links on copyrighting internet creations. Oh, thanks, Mayalily for giving us good ideas we completely ignore. Also, if it needs a logo, creator's can make the logo go transparent like a chim does for instance. http://www.ehow.com/how_6011997_properly-copyright-artwork-internet.html?ref=Track2&utm_source=ask
  7. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Solar Legion wrote: I myself am a customer and a former content creator. I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX. I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace. You, have no right to even suggest such a move by Linden Lab. Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels. Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not. It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day. Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put on file, let alone use. Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either. Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market ends where their right to withold their payment information begind. Care to guess which right trumps the other? Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase. The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell. SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea? 0.o And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world? i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for UT that we had to use our email from our ISP.. i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email.. i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place.. you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe That doesn't help us if we have items taken out of our inventory that we paid for. The way the rules are now, it helps the seller but punishes the buyers. And Ceka, yes you were rambling quite a bit and not reading my posts yesterday. I said DON'T put logos on the clothing themselves. I said put logos were people cannot see them, such as include underwear, baldcaps, etc. And then the creator's should state that yes all my items come with my original logoed underwear/baldcap, and were registered and copyrighted on this date, along with none of my items are full perm. However, what I'm finding in this thread is that people are living in their own little me world and not listening to consumer's. I give up. Anyways the whole thing about protecting the customer is to have legit accounts that would not steal or bot other content correct? this is why i mentioned maybe using an Internet Service Provider Email..accounts that do not want to be found after they do theft or griefing or things where they are throw away accounts..they would never use their ISP email to create an account.. make them have to use an ISP email account to be able to do business on the market place or let alone even have an account in second life.. they use fake information and things like yahoo and google and hotmail throw away accounts..they would never use the email tied right to their internet service provider for that kind of thing.. if LL did something like that it would probably lower those chances of throw away accounts.. hence lowering the risk of dealing with stolen content on the market.. it's just an idea..not something full proof..can't blame a girl for trying lol and also i believe i said i was sorry if i was rambling in my response to your post..if you feel that was an invitation to insult me by calling me a meme girl..you best check yourself.. i don't take kindly to sucker punches.. No, it wasn't an invitation to insult you, but you were rambling all over the place and sounded like you drank a bunch of egg nog, and then replied something like "oh, logo's are cool on sunglasses"... when I never even suggested putting any logos on anything on the outside. Don't you know underwear and baldcaps are not something usually seen, nor do they even have to be worn, but could be just included in each folder, as I WROTE, but felt you didn't even read. You said you were so tired, but if you are that tired why are you debating when it's obvious you are not even reading? I decided not to read your posts, Ceka, as they were completely disjointed and all over the place, and then the answers had nothing to do with what I wrote. As far as seller's having to use their email from their ISP, that is a good start. Maybe. However, I don't see how seller's can expect us to trust them when they want to hide. I had been thinking the same thing the other poster wrote. Also, with Paypal you can transfer the money out right away and you simply get another checking account that is just for Paypal and your business. What's the big deal about this? You can't get a little small bank account? This is what I'm wondering about some of these poster's who respond. Or you can't get a small credit card with say a $200 dollar limit? And if you seller's don't trust LL with their money, why should purchaser's?
  8. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Solar Legion wrote: I myself am a customer and a former content creator. I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX. I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace. You, have no right to even suggest such a move by Linden Lab. Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels. Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not. It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day. Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put on file, let alone use. Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either. Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market ends where their right to withold their payment information begind. Care to guess which right trumps the other? Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase. The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell. SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea? 0.o And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world? i remember back when me and my bf played UT..if we wanted to be able to use the forums for UT that we had to use our email from our ISP.. i don't think people can lie about at least their location if they are using an ISP email.. i'm not sure if there are a lot of work arounds that someone could do or not with that..but it may be something they could use on the market place.. you can't really lie to your isp since they kind of know who you are already hehehehe That doesn't help us if we have items taken out of our inventory that we paid for. The way the rules are now, it helps the seller but punishes the buyers. And Ceka, yes you were rambling quite a bit and not reading my posts yesterday. I said DON'T put logos on the clothing themselves. I said put logos were people cannot see them, such as include underwear, baldcaps, etc. And then the creator's should state that yes all my items come with my original logoed underwear/baldcap, and were registered and copyrighted on this date, along with none of my items are full perm. However, what I'm finding in this thread is that people are living in their own little me world and not listening to consumer's. I give up.
  9. Setekh Ichtama wrote: Solar Legion wrote: I myself am a customer and a former content creator. I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX. I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace. You, have no right to even suggest such a move by Linden Lab. Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels. Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not. It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day. Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put on file, let alone use. Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either. Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market ends where their right to withold their payment information begind. Care to guess which right trumps the other? She has every right to suggest this and honestly, what's so difficult about making a simple PayPal connection to your Second Life? Unless you have something to hide, a small inconvience is all that is required on your part and don't even bring up this trust issue because each time you log into Second Life, they log information that if legally requested, can be used to gain your personal details as provided by your Internet Service Provider. You are not anonymous, unless you spend your time trying to be as anonymous as possible, which is more reason you should not t be trusted, not the other way around. I agree wholeheartedly, it makes me wonder what they are afraid of. Thus, my trust diminishes even further. Good post, btw.
  10. Solar Legion wrote: I myself am a customer and a former content creator. I started out when the Marketplace was still the SLX. I did not even have PIOF status, let alone PIU. I do not presume to limit who can and cannot post up their wares on the Marketplace. You, have no right to even suggest such a move by Linden Lab. Content theft in Second Life is as old as the prgram itself - do as Peggy has said and use the proper channels. Or: Cancel your account and make your own grid, where you can control who gets to put their wares up and who does not. It's a shame your friend had her content ripped: It happens every day. Now, guess what sunshine? Not everyone HAS payment information to put on file, let alone use. Not everyone is willing to trust Linden Lab with that information either. Such people would be locked out of putting their wares up on the Marketplace if Linden Lab thought like you (and thankfully, they don't). Your "right" to a secure market ends where their right to withold their payment information begind. Care to guess which right trumps the other? Okay, you're not willing to trust LL with payment info, yet you expect consumer's to trust you and LL with their money when they purchase. The onus is on LL and the creator's to make some sort of trustworthy and transparent marketplace both on website AND inworld as there are many of the same items inworld as I stated earlier in this thread. I think with SOPA looming, it's time for seller's to have a verified seller's account before they are even able to sell. SL is a business with real money being transferred, and you except buyer's to just except the "buyer beware" idea? 0.o And if you are too young to have a business checking account, why should I want to deal with underage teenage seller's trying to sell in an adult business world?
  11. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: I know what a copyright holder is and isn't. Artist's sign away their publishing rights or they don't or they keep part royalities (a portion). My agreeing with SOPA has nothing to do with simply music, and on music piracy you and I Ceka will always, always disagree period. You think music is great. I say music is crap now. On that we will never see eye to eye on. And, I need to clarify I am for a type of SOPA, just not SOPA in it's current form. I do believe, however, some kind of "SOPA" will pass eventually, but perhaps not in it's current form. Let's drop that for now and get back on topic. Now, your point about copyright is confusing. Your point here -- username is tied to real name. How can that be when we are discussing whether all residents should be verified or not with payment info? music was just an example of the many types of content..i just used one type as an example..i wasn't about to go into the huge list hehehe how we feel about music is irrelevant to all that...you have no idea of my range in taste of music..it's pretty wide hehehe anyways..my point about copy writing something..you create something on your computer it is born and copy written right then and there..if you upload it to the net it is dated with an exact time again..in this world it will be showing an upload born date and exact time as well.. remember that letter you wanted to mail to yourself? there it is..your user name shows up as the creator and owner of that content with a date and time..payment info or no payment info it is tied to me..if i made it in world it is copy written and tied to the real world me also..payment info or no payment info..all with a date and time down to the very second it was created.. at this moment it does not exist anywhere else in the world but in my possession and also on the net in my inventory under my user name and on my computer where the original sits dated and with a time it was sealed.. i've just dated my content with even more evidence that it is mine..no date will show up earlier than mine and the file sitting in a zip will be showing an even earlier date..i can upload it to my website server as well giving it another date..the more times i do this in different places..the more i build evidence to ensure the content was copy written by me originally.. the only thing that could stop me proving it was mine is if someone showed up with the exact same thing as mine and with an earlier creation date or showing proof of ownership of the copy writes..someone registering my copy written content does not give them rights over my content unless they can somehow show i sold my rights away to them.. you were saying there are no copy writes in second life..i'm just showing that yes there are..and that you don't need payment info on file to have them.. Yes, but one hard drive crash could wipe that all out, couldn't it? Backup of course is necessary for most people who are serious about their files, especially when it's a business. But....does that mean every creator on SL has backups and proof if their harddrive should crash? However, a creator could still do other things to assure potential customer's that this is an original by them such as including a pair of underwear in each set of clothing that has their trademarked logo on it, for an example, and even include this logo underwear with skins. Any items without a logoed bra or underwear would then become items to stay away from. Not that we would have to wear the bra, underwear, baldcap, etc, but they would be included in the folder with a trademark. Not all people want trademarks or logos ON their clothing as I hate trademarks and logos in rl, as I'm not into status symbols and do not wear clothes because they represent a designer or some kind of "status". I buy nothing with a logo in rl, as I can't stand that kind of stuff, so I wouldn't like logo clothing in SL either. But there are some simple DO's that a creator could do when listing their items... 1. Put Username, Date Created, and state not a full perm item right on the photoshopped picture of the outfit when it is first launched either MP or inworld. 2. A seller could include a logo with underwear or make a piece of underclothing that completely disappears when worn, even if underwear. Thus, clothing that DOES NOT have underwear in the listing description would be items a shopper would than know to avoid. State right in the description of the item that YES the clothing you are about to purchase includes a set of my original logo name underwear, or bald cap for skins and hair, etc. For furniture and accesories, I haven't thought of anything yet. But, as seller's it is your responsibility to fully protect YOURSELF. Shopper's should not be punished as if what you said above Ceka holds true, then a shopper could prove to LL that they have nothing they copybotted and therefore their account should not be suspended for what someone else did. p.s. I still don't want to shop anymore. That may or may not change. This thread has made me rethink a lot of things and how they are so haphazard here. Seller's do need to present themselves with a little more transparency and professionalism. Such as this is the kind of seller and their description on MP I would avoid: This is purdy hatt. If there is a some kind of a system either with underwear, baldcaps or...(other not thought of yet items -- perhaps some kind of notecard with a creator's logo), at least shopper's would have some way of knowing whether a dealer is upfront or not. And I do avoid the seller's who cannot write out a simple sentence. The shady ones do sound like the one's stating in their whole description: this purdy hatt. I don't wish to derail the thread into for or against SOPA and the reasons why or why not. However, it's the creator's business and the responsibility of their items should not be put onto consumer's.
  12. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do. @ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA. Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity. The copyright belongs to the artist. As for Paypal, no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law.. As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess.. It protects the copyright holder. I do not see a difference as I as an artist can get my own copyrights, and so can those here. However, since there are no actual copyrights on SL, I don't see how anyone can prove when the item was even first made...? << This point needs to be addressed. And yes I will again for the umpteenth time agree that ALL residents should be verified and provide some form of proof of when their creation was created; otherwise, there is no copyright in the first place. You can't have it both ways, Ceka. You want those that hold copyrights not to have them, and those that do not hold copyrights to somehow magically have them. ok play time is over.. if there were not copy writes then how could anyone file a DMCA and have content taken down? you create a digital file when it is on your computer.. you upload your texture and it is recorded..that user name is tied to your RL name.. copy - write exists the second the creation is created..having something under copy-write protection provides additional protection..it doesn't all of a sudden become copy written because you went and registered it.. so ya it does get copy -written when it is created in here..have you even looked into this at all? as far as SOPA..seriously..look at who the big copy-write holders are that are backing this law and you will find why it is not a good thing.. copy-write holder does not equal artist in the big world..ever hear the term Sell out? see copy writes can be sold or even taken away or sometimes contracted for someone else that is the owner but hires a creator..this may be where you think i am wanting my cake and eating it to.. see people sell their stuff and other people own them..like all those record labels out there with the same record label on all those different artists songs..the record label owns the copy writes not the singer or creator.. just ask prince how long it took him to get out of their grip..and he had all kinds of freedoms with them.. then go ask linkin park how they became who they are grip free..they did it without them through the internet and no big corp sucking up their creations..and they did it faster.. that fairy you have in your avatar..better hope you own it or have permission to use it or someone could have you in the court of law if SOPA passes..and not a civil court either.. any you tube links that have the slightest music DNA in them playing in the background that you link to anyone..puts you at risk of committing piracy as well as you tube if the up loader did not get permission from the owner of the writes to it..even if the song was playing on their tv in the other room.. as far as that bolded part..you haven't heard a word i have said..i'm a content creator..also a content owner.. i've been in this fight a long long time..long before SL..and telling the difference is an important part of being able to fight it well..knowing the big picture and what will result from things is a huge part of it..just looking at the paint job will get you hurting in a bad way.. you accuse me of being this whole wanting my cake and eating it too thing when you don't even understand a word i have even said lol honestly..you have no idea what you are talking about? just listen to the things you are saying..forget about some win here and take it serious..because i'm not here for a win in some forum thread or to make myself look like i know what i am talking about..i do know what i am talking about.. want a real life shot..wait till some corporation calls you up one day because they infected your land with some bullcrap pollen that floated in on the wind and now tells you because they own this patent on that pollen gene what you have to do with your own land from here on out.. I know what a copyright holder is and isn't. Artist's sign away their publishing rights or they don't or they keep part royalities (a portion). My agreeing with SOPA has nothing to do with simply music, and on music piracy you and I Ceka will always, always disagree period. You think music is great. I say music is crap now. On that we will never see eye to eye on. And, I need to clarify I am for a type of SOPA, just not SOPA in it's current form. I do believe, however, some kind of "SOPA" will pass eventually, but perhaps not in it's current form. Let's drop that for now and get back on topic. Now, your point about copyright is confusing. Your point here -- username is tied to real name. How can that be when we are discussing whether all residents should be verified or not with payment info?
  13. Sy Beck wrote: Mayalily wrote: PeterCanessa Oh wrote: Cinnamon Lohner wrote: ...Maybe its time to cash out. What do you think? --Cinn Nah, while I completely agree with your translation the sky isn't falling - just getting a little lower every day. SL has survived a long time, even despite the mess that M made of everything. This news is not exciting but at least it shows a purpose LL seems to have lacked for a very long time. Rod's a game developer, wants to make SL a games platform and LL a games company. That's not what I want for it/them but whatever happens I hope it works well for them. SL does need more strategies, as after awhile it gets very boring, such as I feel I'm just listening to the radio *yawn*. SL is mindless entertainment for those who do not create content, like me. It's just too boring as it is, and the role play sims seem to be pretty empty or very gorey and creepy. Linden Realms seems like a start, but don't treat us like mindless idiots and expect a sort of listening to the radio with visuals as an entertainment that will keep us here. SL is far too mindless. And, I don't like hunts. I don't want a bunch of heavy prim items I can't use or a bunch of clothes I may not like. Residents do need something to engage our minds before we are bored to death. When SL is an environment created for you to live out your imagination what does your post say about you Mayalily? Oh, I guess my imagination is stuck on two very precious kittens who think avatars are dancing cat toys on the screen. My kittens take up a lot of my attention these days. Also there isn't much for singles. My mind is a little imagined in that I am a widow on SL with two children who slaps on a dance animation for the kittens to watch. But seriously, since I'm not interested at this time to venture into SL creation, SL doesn't engage my imagination that much. Linden Realms may be a little more interesting, but with the holidays, I've had other priorities. I don't think it's shopping on Marketplace that makes SL boring. It's perhaps that I have a rl relationship and a rl bf who is not even interested in SL and who thinks it's boring without even trying it. He'd rather watch sports and/or have a rl with me. Anyhow, back on topic. To Cinn, if you are thinking of going elsewhere, you should. There are all kinds of vocations and avocations to try in this lifetime.
  14. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do. @ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA. Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity. The copyright belongs to the artist. As for Paypal, no it doesn't..it belongs to the owner..go read up on SOPA it's an owners law not a creators law.. As for pay pal..the majority of SL users cannot use pay pal..good bye grid i guess.. It protects the copyright holder. I do not see a difference as I as an artist can get my own copyrights, and so can those here. However, since there are no actual copyrights on SL, I don't see how anyone can prove when the item was even first made...? << This point needs to be addressed. And yes I will again for the umpteenth time agree that ALL residents should be verified and provide some form of proof of when their creation was created; otherwise, there is no copyright in the first place. You can't have it both ways, Ceka. You want those that hold copyrights not to have them, and those that do not hold copyrights to somehow magically have them.
  15. Amethyst Jetaime wrote: You are penalizing them for something that a few bad apples do. No under LL's crazy rules, innocent people could be penalized for simply shopping, and we need to have bazillions of items memerized in our minds, along with knowing the thousands and thousands of full perm items. That's impossible. @ Ceka, of course I'm for SOPA. Maybe not in it's current form, but some 'form' of SOPA is sanity. The copyright belongs to the artist. Also, merchants are responsible for getting their own copyrights. It is no one else's problems if there is no copyright holder in the first place. Merchants should start putting dates right on the photoshopped picture just when the item is ready for launch; this item created by so-and-so, dated created, not full perm. Then a merchant would have some ammunition. Otherwise, I don't see where the proof of who made what first even exists? As for Paypal, it offers up to 45 days to file a fradulent claim. I do not think banks or credit cards offer that. I'll have to call our credit card and ask how many days I have to file against something like this when I would have done nothing at all.
  16. Roseysun Galicia wrote: Credit card companies, and Banks, also have protections for consumers for fradulent purchases. It isn't just Pay Pal. Mayalily wrote: I didn't say my dining set was botted. lol I said I thought it was an original, but the same chair is in lots of stores, and I also said it's a full perm item, should have said full perm chair. And @ Amethyst, I like what Paypal offers and that is a buyer's protection plan. With SOPA looming, and this ridiculous rule that LL can take away all our stuff and suspend our account simply for shopping is beyond a ridiculous business practice. That is punishing the victim, and it's crazy stuff. Paypal has a buyer's protection plan, and again, with SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes), creator's need to get savvy here and think of someway to prove their reputation either via Paypal verified and/or this item was created on this date and if you see anyone else with my product please let me know and I WILL take care of it. I'm not spending money if my items can be taken away simply because I went shopping in an endless shopping market of millions and bazillions of items. The way selling on SL runs now is chaos, and it's time for dealer's to realize that. No, banks do not. Credit cards.... perhaps innocent consumers may have some recourse if LL tries to suspend their account for something someone else did. The only way to solve this seems to be Paypal only. And no I don't own eBay stock. Also, make a small business account for SL, that way SL is not linked to your main household income account. Simply get a small checking account to transfer your money in and transfer it out the same day on Paypal. That's what I've always done as a seller on eBay; have a small business bank, not our main bank. I think the fees for Paypal are not much more than say $1.30 per $50.00. The larger amounts you take out of Paypal, the less your fees will be. So you have to be savvy there and learn how to get the most for your money on Paypal. The only other option is for LL to create a paypal-like service, but I truly doubt that will happen. But, I agree that all residents should be age verified, name, address, phone number, all of it, plus I do like the possibility of Paypal only for business confidence to increase. I'm not chancing spending money that can be taken away from me when I would have done nothing wrong.
  17. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: There are stores with the same items inworld also, it is not just Marketplace. The dinning set in my SL house, that same chair is in two other stores inworld, and yes I checked, it's a full perm chair as I was thinking of buying some full perm items in the New Year to try, but I've changed my mind as I'd rather oil paint. People are not going to keep checking if something is full perm or not. I did, because I thought I was getting an original dinning room set from one creator. There is also a top I know of that is in two stores inworld, so who is the first creator and how do I know it isn't a full perm item? I say all seller's should be Paypal verified or no sale from me either inworld or on Marketplace because with Paypal at least I have some recourse to get my money back if it's stolen content or my account is suspended because of a hacker or unscrupulous residents. I think LL should go all Paypal verified, that way residents won't get ripped off and at least we have some recourse to fight back this complete stupidity of the way this business runs. This is real money I am spending, but perhaps no longer. I'm going to wait until some sense of business ethics comes to SL. I said this place lacks ethics and it does. Dealer's if you are Paypal verified, let me know, and I will do business with you. Otherwise, no. I think it's time for consumer's to fight back and go with Paypal only verified seller's or else they could lose everything under these terms. With Paypal, consumer's have a recourse to fight back against unscrupulous sellers. Otherwise, we have nothing. you really should give people more credit than you do for the way they shop..a lot of people are smart with how they spend their money..it's money lol people ask questions when they shop.. the forums are full of questions about where to find this or whats the best place to get that.. and most veterans are fully aware of looking at permissions..a lot shop and make or won't make a purchase because of the way perms are set on items.. just because you see the same item in 2 or 20 different owners stores does not mean it is stolen.. you really should understand that it is a content OWNERS market and not a content creators market..although content creators do sell their content they own as well.. take a look at redpoly and some of the other content creators that sell their content at full perms to people so those people can open resale shops all over the place..market place and in world.. just because you say your dinning set was botted doesn't mean it was botted..it's possible and more than likely a resale item created for resale shops.. if not then you should be contacting the creator and be part of the solution so they can file a DMCA.. because if they were a resale place and you did contact them..they would have told you they were a resale content creator and you would have never brought it up as a botted item.. so really you should contact the creator or owner to find out.. as far as the whole i'm gonna deal with only pay pal content creators..have fun looking for that seal of approval since it's part of a users private information and they don't have to tell you the truth ..they could say..ya sure i use pay pal..you would never know the truth.. not unless you feel they have to show you pay pal credentials.. i can see it now.. oh yes that content creator uses pay pal.. * an IM dings* hey what are you going around spreading my payment information with everyone for? AR'd for disclosure!! see i can reach pretty far in the extreme bin also lol here is a clip of how sl will explain why they won't go full PIU to those that want SL to convert to full PIU hehehe I didn't say my dining set was botted. lol I said I thought it was an original, but the same chair is in lots of stores, and I also said it's a full perm item, should have said full perm chair. And @ Amethyst, I like what Paypal offers and that is a buyer's protection plan. With SOPA looming, and this ridiculous rule that LL can take away all our stuff and suspend our account simply for shopping is beyond a ridiculous business practice. That is punishing the victim, and it's crazy stuff. Paypal has a buyer's protection plan, and again, with SOPA looming which I am all for btw (hope it passes), creator's need to get savvy here and think of someway to prove their reputation either via Paypal verified and/or this item was created on this date and if you see anyone else with my product please let me know and I WILL take care of it. I'm not spending money if my items can be taken away simply because I went shopping in an endless shopping market of millions and bazillions of items. The way selling on SL runs now is chaos, and it's time for dealer's to realize that.
  18. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Educate them how when there are millions of items? You are asking for the impossible. To address other points in this thread: Other countries can get on Paypal just fine. I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 1. I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal. 2. Get your own creations copyrighted. People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright. Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself. Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it. Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes. The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself. It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop. It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products. That's not feasible. << point address to all in this thread. that won't copy-write it.. It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence. it can help you in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it.. also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer.. what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft.. one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory.. because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content.. if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims.. if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year.. pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage.. griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts.. you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium.. you can't stop it period..that is a fact.. you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware.. nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content grid inventory.. all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA? then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief.. content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content.. you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing.. experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and thieves.. *puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb* we could just settle this with thumb wrestling ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol With full perm items available, that's a lot to ask of people to do. The best thing a creator can do then is to put a date on Marketplace for each item as to when it was created, such as this outfit was created on such and such a date and if you see anyone else with this item, please let me know as it is not full perm. They can still try a poorman's copyright as it's better than nothing. The problem I try to avoid on MP is the people who cannot write a sentence in English. I would deal with those who say this is copyrighted, created on this date, and is not full perm as those would seem responsible people, and I am a verified seller. If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through. However, I agree with what Perrie said earlier in this thread, you can't put a disclaimer on SL MP that says "beware, your account may be suspended for shopping" for crying out loud that's the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. After this thread, I don't want to shop at all. No thanks. Not now. I'm going to rethink this whole thing, as it's pretty dumb if you ask me. I say LL should get everyone verified or adios. i wouldn't agree to scare people off as i said in my response to him..more to just ask them to keep an eye out if they see something.. myself i feel the market place should be for demos and samples and things like that..things that lure people to your store in world i feel the MP is a good hiding spot for the selling of stolen content the way it is now.. i feel it will help with shoping in world if we used it as a cataloge rather than a second market.. i hate that i have become an online shopper in SL lol i think i am going to start going more inworld for the items and use the market as just a catalog..and if they have no link to an in world store..then i'll just move to the next person with a brick and mortar in world..i feel if they have invested in a store and land..thats a better foothold than just being able to slap some stuff on the MP and call it a store.. i don't shop from places that don't have an inworld link anyways..even if i by from the MP.. i think the market place helps to keep us from having to go out as much as we used to.. maybe this is why we are getting so bored hehehe *winks* There are stores with the same items inworld also, it is not just Marketplace. The dinning set in my SL house, that same chair is in two other stores inworld, and yes I checked, it's a full perm chair as I was thinking of buying some full perm items in the New Year to try, but I've changed my mind as I'd rather oil paint. People are not going to keep checking if something is full perm or not. I did, because I thought I was getting an original dinning room set from one creator. There is also a top I know of that is in two stores inworld, so who is the first creator and how do I know it isn't a full perm item? I say all seller's should be Paypal verified or no sale from me either inworld or on Marketplace because with Paypal at least I have some recourse to get my money back if it's stolen content or my account is suspended because of a hacker or unscrupulous residents. I think LL should go all Paypal verified, that way residents won't get ripped off and at least we have some recourse to fight back this complete stupidity of the way this business runs. This is real money I am spending, but perhaps no longer. I'm going to wait until some sense of business ethics comes to SL. I said this place lacks ethics and it does. Dealer's if you are Paypal verified, let me know, and I will do business with you. Otherwise, no. I think it's time for consumer's to fight back and go with Paypal only verified seller's or else they could lose everything under these terms. With Paypal, consumer's have a recourse to fight back against unscrupulous sellers. Otherwise, we have nothing.
  19. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Educate them how when there are millions of items? You are asking for the impossible. To address other points in this thread: Other countries can get on Paypal just fine. I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 1. I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal. 2. Get your own creations copyrighted. People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright. Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself. Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it. Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes. The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself. It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop. It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products. That's not feasible. << point address to all in this thread. that won't copy-write it.. It does not prove that you created whatever it was that you created.. it only helps establish the date you claim the content came into existence. it can help you in court if it is compiled with other evidence..but that is it.. also most here know who's responsibility when it comes to protecting content.. the content creator..i don't know how many times it has to be said to be heard lol and again nobody is putting blame on the consumer.. what a lot do know is this..that taking out the NPIOF will not stop content theft..instead it will create other kinds of theft.. one day you go to log on and wonder why you have all this junk in your inventory.. because someone decided to make you he fall guy by way of hacking into your account..only they decided to use a different type of viewer..you don't find out until they are long gone and they have it all loaded on their computer or where ever they decided to land it..all they have to do now is leave the coffee house and go and log in from home and call the content creator and say they think you have been botting their content.. if it sounds far fetched just take a look at WoW and the gold farmers that just pound away at hacking accounts on WoW..a full pay service that gets overloaded with hackers and victims.. if you think SL is more secure than WoW then you may want to have a look at the past year.. pull free accounts and you will be dealing with the hardcore that know what they are doing or the ones that think they do and get in anyways and do the damage.. griefing and botting have been around as long as the grid has pretty much..it didn't just come along after the doors were open to free accounts.. you can't stop content theft by killing off free accounts..you can't stop it by making everyone premium.. you can't stop it period..that is a fact.. you can only try to inform as many people as you can to thefts existence and to hopefully get as many as you can aware.. nobody is gonna expect everyone to hear the word being passed around and nobody is expected to memorize sl content grid inventory.. all that people can ask is..can you please keep a lookout because there are thieves that do steal and do sell off other peoples creations..and when you may come passed it..will you let me know so i can file a DMCA? then a content owner or creator can hopefully get these people into court so they can use the copy-write to make it an expensive venture for the thief.. content creators and owners have worked with consumers a lot in the past..the forums have always been filled with people that have came in asking if this could be stolen or what should they do if they feel they have something that may be stolen content.. you can point to me or to anyone here saying that educating is not going to do a thing.. experience says it helps as it has in the passed..it's not the end all stop all answer.. it is a better alternative than closing the doors on future residents and opening them to harder cased hackers and thieves.. *puts my finger against yours then grabbing your hand with mine and stiicking up my thumb* we could just settle this with thumb wrestling ETA: let me just add that the hacking and all that would probably only take place if SL were to recover from the large shock the econemy just got hit with after losing all those residents that decided they didn't want to go premium and also those that left because the econemy instantly turned to crap lol With full perm items available, that's a lot to ask of people to do. The best thing a creator can do then is to put a date on Marketplace for each item as to when it was created, such as this outfit was created on such and such a date and if you see anyone else with this item, please let me know as it is not full perm. They can still try a poorman's copyright as it's better than nothing. The problem I try to avoid on MP is the people who cannot write a sentence in English. I would deal with those who say this is copyrighted, created on this date, and is not full perm as those would seem responsible people, and I am a verified seller. If the seller is not verified, I might skip them altogether if this SOPA thing goes through. However, I agree with what Perrie said earlier in this thread, you can't put a disclaimer on SL MP that says "beware, your account may be suspended for shopping" for crying out loud that's the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. After this thread, I don't want to shop at all. No thanks. Not now. I'm going to rethink this whole thing, as it's pretty dumb if you ask me. I say LL should get everyone verified or adios.
  20. Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Mayalily wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Payment info used is like a lock on a door. It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID. If you think that's not possible your pretty naive. If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world. The majority of these people are honest. You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything. All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves. How is this fair? Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF. How do you know their lindens aren't stolen? I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination. RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL. I disagree. How is it a consumer's fault? And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day. How is that a consumer's fault? I agree with Phoebe. I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay. Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now. However, that is very easy education on eBay. IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me". It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't? How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified? I did NOT blame consumers and don't appreciate you saying I did. Read what I actually wrote. I only said that more can be done to educate them. To elaborate more, a disclaimer is not the whole answer, or even a large part of it, and maybe it only needs to be shown the first time someone buys on the marketplace, not on every page. First time shoppers on the marketplace may not be aware of the issue at all. They need to be and also need to be aware of what they should do if they DO run across stolen or misused content. They need to be educated that if they think 'its not my problem" and do nothing, how it effects them in the long run with less choice and higher prices. Just yesterday I was in a store and the owner was selling mesh and sculpt kits intended for builders not resale. Not only were they selling the kits, but asking three times what the original creator charged. As a content creator myself I won't tolerate this, so I IM'd the creator and told her about it. Told her who it was selling the items and where she could go and find them for sale. If more people did this more often maybe stolen or misused content wouldn't be as large of a problem. So give people the knowledge and tools they need to help curb it, not take away their own ability to sell content. Educate them how when there are millions of items? You are asking for the impossible. To address other points in this thread: Other countries can get on Paypal just fine. I've worked with people on eBay in Israel, Japan, all over the globe. 1. I agree with Phoebe that ALL residents should be verified, and you can use a bank instead or a credit card with Paypal. 2. Get your own creations copyrighted. People can do a what is called a poor man's copyright. Merely print out all your creations, put them in an envelope with a stamp and mail them back to yourself. Keep the envelope unopened when it arrives back to you, as remember that has a date from the stamp on it. Thus, if you see other seller's copying your creations, the originals will be in a sealed envelope and dated as to when created, and then you will have some actual recourse in a court of law about your creations and be able to prove you are the original creator, but again do not open the envelopes. The envelopes have to remain sealed and opened in a court of law, so seal it very good when you mail the envelope back to yourself. It's your responsibility to protect your own business and creations, not LL's and not people who merely shop. It is an impossibility for customers to know these endless products. That's not feasible. << point address to all in this thread.
  21. Ceka Cianci wrote: Mayalily wrote: Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Payment info used is like a lock on a door. It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID. If you think that's not possible your pretty naive. If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world. The majority of these people are honest. You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything. All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves. How is this fair? Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF. How do you know their lindens aren't stolen? I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination. RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL. I disagree. How is it a consumer's fault? And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day. How is that a consumer's fault? I agree with Phoebe. I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay. Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now. However, that is very easy education on eBay. IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me". It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't? How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified? where did she say it was the consumers fault? she was saying that the way to battle the ones that do steal is to educate users that there are stolen products out there and to keep an eye out for them and that they don't buy from those people stealing and selling..and also that the only ones responsible for their content are the owners of that content.. nobody is blaming consumers..that was more a statement to protect them so they don't end up spending money on something that gets taken down from a DMCA.. how do we educate them? RyOta had a good idea about a warning..a warning on each page of the market.. it's our job as users to educate ourselves as well..if we bypass warnings then it's our own fault if we get bit..that goes for all users..creators and content owners and customers ect.. You can't educate consumer's with a disclaimer like that as customer's have a purchase history and the seller of the stolen goods is responsible and so is the creator for not getting a proper copyright with a copyright office. If a person creates something, it's their responsibility to get it copyrighted and to fight the abuser in court, not punish innocent bystanders. Get your creation's copyrighted and than sue whomever is stealing your original creations.
  22. PeterCanessa Oh wrote: Cinnamon Lohner wrote: ...Maybe its time to cash out. What do you think? --Cinn Nah, while I completely agree with your translation the sky isn't falling - just getting a little lower every day. SL has survived a long time, even despite the mess that M made of everything. This news is not exciting but at least it shows a purpose LL seems to have lacked for a very long time. Rod's a game developer, wants to make SL a games platform and LL a games company. That's not what I want for it/them but whatever happens I hope it works well for them. SL does need more strategies, as after awhile it gets very boring, such as I feel I'm just listening to the radio *yawn*. SL is mindless entertainment for those who do not create content, like me. It's just too boring as it is, and the role play sims seem to be pretty empty or very gorey and creepy. Linden Realms seems like a start, but don't treat us like mindless idiots and expect a sort of listening to the radio with visuals as an entertainment that will keep us here. SL is far too mindless. And, I don't like hunts. I don't want a bunch of heavy prim items I can't use or a bunch of clothes I may not like. Residents do need something to engage our minds before we are bored to death.
  23. Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Payment info used is like a lock on a door. It will stop honest people from entering and some opportunistic thieves will be discouraged, but won't stop anyone from entering the door that really wants to bad enough. Anyone can walk to the corner mini mart and buy a prepaid Visa or Mastercard with cash and a fake ID or even no ID. If you think that's not possible your pretty naive. If a thief wants to steal and you put this barrier up, that's exactly what will happen or worse, they will steal someone else's credit card and identity. Believe it or not there are people in SL that don't have credit cards or other means of payment acceptable to LL so have no PIOF, let alone used. There are also people in SL that don't want to put PIOF because of security issues and people who have no need of PIOF because they earn all the lindens they need by working in world. The majority of these people are honest. You basically saying that if you have no PIOF and used, and can't afford an inworld store we are going to penalize you and presume your a thief by not allowing you to sell anything. All because of a relatively small percentage of people that are thieves. How is this fair? Do you refuse to sell to people with no PIOF. How do you know their lindens aren't stolen? I think LL thinks more clearly than you do and understands that it would be ineffective discrimination. RyOta and Peggy are right, consumer education is the answer and content creators are responsible for protecting their own content not LL. I disagree. How is it a consumer's fault? And, how are you going to "educate" consumers as has been stated in this thread when there are new content creator's every day. How is that a consumer's fault? I agree with Phoebe. I believe ALL residents should have payment info on file, just like eBay. Although some on eBay still try to get away with going against the simple rule that eBay is Paypal only now. However, that is very easy education on eBay. IOW, don't buy from the few seller's trying to bypass the Paypal rule and who say "send payment to me". It's easy for consumers to understand on eBay, but how on Earth would consumers know what is stolen content and what isn't? How would you educate them unless it worked like eBay ala Paypal only for payment and that the seller is Paypal verified?
  24. nt891995 wrote: hello im new and i was wondering how i can change my look on SL. btw how do ppl make their avatars look so cool like dinosaurs, robts, pokemon, etc. i researched wiki and im still confused i even bought a strategy guide and it still all sounds confusing. sorry im not to good at tech. stuff so forgive me if i sound naive. thanks for reading 1. There are free avatars in your inventories library, or you can pick up a free fully dressed avatar on basic. 2. Go to the freebie island places as there are some free clothing for you to start with, including shoes, hair, eyes, all kinds of items. Just type in free clothing in your destination guide, and the teleports should come up. 3. Your clothing, hair, skin, shoes and other items come in folders like folders in your DOCUMENTS area on your computer. You open a folder and chose wear for the items you want to wear. When you want to take an item off, choose detach. To find what you are wearing type WORN in your inventories search box and everything you are wearing should show up. It's a good idea to rename your items so that you can remember them. For instance, right click and chose rename on the folder itself, and then rename the item such as HAIR brown/long just for an example, that way all your hair is under hair, and all your shoes would be under shoes but with a little description of what the shoes are. In another thread you stated you wanted to make a hoodie, so another example of how to file your inventory would be to rename that hoodie, TOP/HOODIE, WHITE for an example. Marketplace is here on this website and just point your cursor to shopping instead of community and you should be able to find some free or quite inexpensive items to start out with. Hope I'm not confusing you, but there are some tutorials on how to organize your inventory, I believe by Torley Linden on You Tube. Good luck and have fun trying out some outfits and avatars.
  25. Jennifer Boyle wrote: The last couple of days my eyes have looked strange most of the time---all white. Changing eyes fixes it for a few minutes only. Clearing cache, relogging, rebooting, and wearing different eyes do not fix it. Any suggestions will be appreciated. What viewer are you using there? Just a suggestion and I don't know if it is going to work, but how about going into edit appearance and change your eye shape a little bit? Or just go into edit appearance and change something a little bit, and see if that works.
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