oh awesome! thanks. when i come back from my nap i'll def look into it. i saved a copy of my origional male shape and i edited and well...it ended up looking a bit weird. "pigish" face to full and gave up for the time being but i'll try again. lol:matte-motes-little-laugh: all this info you all have given me will def make it easier for me. just to those that haven't figured it out i am actually a girl rl and sl.