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Charlotte Bartlett

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Everything posted by Charlotte Bartlett

  1. If nothing else if anybody has this issue they may find this thread and see the summary here which will help going forward 💙
  2. That’s the thing it seems based on the info above it’s coded at MSB to MSB level versus granular transaction level. LL can’t control that. I am sure more examples will come up. I agree with you as I think all purchases of tokens, tier and premium should be purchases not peer to peer transfers. Who knows LL May read this and get the CFO to clarify.....
  3. Good Summary - a few tweaks in addition Root Cause: - The change wasn't caused by LL / Tilia / Paypal or Skrill (Money Service Businesses "MSBs" )- but driven at industry level so all MSBs had to comply with how they "code" peer to peer MSBs transactions as a cash advance versus purchase. Fees and Day 0 Interest may be charged: If you use a Credit Card as your funding source in PayPal or Skrill when purchasing Linden Dollars, paying tier etc. The credit card companies globally, whom are taking advantage of this is, growing by the day. Fees and Day 0 Interest currently will not be c
  4. I promise you it's not a convertible currency if you mean Linden Dollars under that definition because you are not converting ANY currency at any point in the transaction. (I know that sounds like an oxymoron, but it's based on the whole element of token definition). As I have said previously on these forums, does that definition stand up - right now it does based on FinCEN publications, will it stand up in the future.... I suspect not. I'll bet you at least 50 Linden (wait what, now that is gambling so very much joking) but in all seriousness, Linden Dollars is not a virtual currency and
  5. Did both attract the cash advance treatment/fees? - I feel like we are on team Sherlock Payment Team here....
  6. My CPA would have answered no to that. Simply put Linden Dollar Tokens are not a virtual currency using the specific definitions under FinCEN and IRS (remember how IRS then went all crazy over Fortnite then deleted it from their page in a fit of oh wait a sec). (I trade other currencies, so actually I answered yes to that question, but not related to SL). I wish they didn't call them Linden Dollars - dollars scream currency so I can see why people confuse them. Your CPA should refer to 3.1.1. Acquiring Virtual Tokens under the Tilia TOS etc but mainly how they word how you cash out
  7. That's so helpful thanks Rebecca! I also like using Paypal for that same reason. I also am leery of using a debit card directly with LL until they have two factor authentication in place. Due to potential of accounts being hacked and then large sums charged that don't have credit card protection. It sounds like we have managed to properly define it so far. Now let's hope somebody can test when their premium payment or sim tier payment goes out to see what occurs.
  8. Would make sense. as all MSBs had to make the changes across the industry, Venmo, Tilia, PayPal, Skrill etc etc all had to comply. I did a small test today I did a small transaction on Venmo and funded with a UK credit card to a US person. The UK Credit Card is pending and I spoke to the bank - sure enough... peer to peer. "cash advance". So this is going global. I really want to know too I hope it's just the Lindex part (that makes sense and seems to comply with the recoding requirement). Just interesting though as if defined as a "peer" transfer why just Lindex - and the whole definitio
  9. You are sadly may be getting impacted by the "money transfer" reclassification that credit card companies forced PayPal etc to do - we thought just American Banks but sounds like the Aussies could now be in the mix too (or this is a total red herring!). (a) you may wish to add a card directly to Second Life and bypass PayPal to see if that (i) reduces your fees and (ii) works around the money transfer classification issue. Will you let us know how you get on as a lot of us are interested in this particular topic atm! (b) as mentioned above place cash into your PayPal before using the Li
  10. This is a really good point - I hope more people post once they check charges to narrow it. As if both are "powered" by Tilia and treated different it tells us Tilia is coding them that way (which they aren't being transparent on, nor is it included in their TOS how they treat each transaction - a compliance gap they need to close)....
  11. I think you may be confusing apple and oranges. The FIN-2013-G001 (if that is what you are referring to) rule has nothing to do with the fact banks have changed how they view MSB transactions and who forced MSBs to recode certain types of transactions to allow them to ID them as cash advances to they could charge more interest and fees. This is all about credit cards/bank fighting back against MSB Apps people are using to move money to take their slice of the pie. Same with the IRS aspects that doesn't impact this particular problem. As a side note FinCEN has not recognized Linden
  12. That's not how Credit Card Company Cash Advances categorize purchases on a service. It's not about reason, but categorization. What is more interesting here is how PayPal are treating Tilia now it's becoming fully fledged and how more importunely once a standard is set how regulators may view it (Finra etc).... Including you are right, but Credit Card companies do not recognize (yet) Linden Dollars as a cash instrument. But they are surely recognizing Tilia as a MSB....
  13. Not sure how that would help at all....somebody somewhere in that supply chain is classifying transactions from Tilia - > PayPal - > Credit Card as a Cash Advance. Resetting PayPal does nothing at all. I suspect it's PayPal based on the information Tilia is providing and perhaps how PayPal is classifying Tilia as a MSB (like those Venmo examples in the New York Time's piece). Here is an example of a bank credit card agreement... I checked mine "A cash advance is a charge to get cash or cash equivalents, including travelers cheques, gift cheques, foreign currency, money orde
  14. Now I am all nostalgic.... some old prim things I made!
  15. Oh that sucks, sorry to hear that. At least we know now that MSB to MSB will be a cash advance for credit cards.
  16. Apologies - my error, I thought they were having the issue with Mesh where it doesn't count properly - just realized it's a different one. Please ignore my post!
  17. Agree as the banks will decide. And most will move to charging...
  18. Only if via PayPal - (as far as we know per posts here) . Also it's only some banks "taking advantage" of the new classifications for payments so far, so it may be less widespread (to start with). Personally if I am paying anything via Tilia using Credit Cards (even if PP not is in the middle) I would be checking the transactions very carefully. Banks I know who are charging - Bank of America Banks so far that may not be charging (yet) - Citibank and Chase The real question will be is how Tilia code those direct transactions as if transfer, the banks can charge.....
  19. I suspect that Tilia powers that transaction (credit card versus PayPal too). So the Credit Card company will levy the fees regardless (I wouldn't risk it but somebody could test it I guess!). Would be good to know if the bank /credit card company directly recognizes Tilia as a MSB and can categorize the payment correctly as a purchase. The 10 USD fee has been a common complaint @DellaLaBella - there is actually a New York Times piece on how Venmo users got hit with the same fees after things changed in April of this year. Tilia has a responsibility to warn you of fees (imho) - not sure
  20. Coming back to the OP: 1. Back in approx April 2020 the banking industry did a few "changes" with how they treat Money Service Businesses (MSBs) like PayPal. Basically it opened the door to allowing them to treat charges to your credit card from those MSB as a cash advance, basically so they can start charging you interest right off the bat on a credit card. 2. PayPal was forced to comply with the industry change and they re-coded transaction types. Some banks can even tag on a fee as well as calculation of earlier interest. 3. That being said, this only applies if the transacti
  21. True, but that doesn’t meet the definition of a convertible currency (Tilia make sure they stay on the right side of that particular regulation as a MSB). You are simply trading your tokens with other players for USD.
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