Rin Tae
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Posts posted by Rin Tae
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Phil Deakins wrote:Peggy Paperdoll wrote:The developers at Emerald taught me that even smart grown adults can be children..........and many of those Emerald devs are the same devs building and distibuting the Phoenix and Firestorm viewers. Thanks, but no thanks.
To be fair, it was only a small number of the Emerald people who were bad - the ones who developed the Copybot system. I never used Emerald because I considered those people to be untrustworthy, and, as it turned out, I was right. I even posted against Emerald for that reason.The Emerald developer, who blew the whistle on the malpractise when he discovered it, released a 'clean' emerald-based viewer (Emergence). which I trusted - because he'd blown the whistle on the scum. Later, he rejoined the clean Emerald people, who were then producing the Phoenix viewer. For that reason, I have trust in their viewers, and I use Phoenix.It may be that there are still copybot people in the Phoenix/Firestorm crew and, if I learn that there are, I'll ditch Phoenix. I'd rather ditch it in advance than rely on a straight person keeping his eyes open, which is what it took for Emerald to become banned.As bad as the emerald people have been .. irresponsible script kidies .. (I started to look at other viewers after I expereinced them in a emerald office hour not long before it all blew up .. really .. that was bad) they did not made copybot (and that Emerald included copybot code has been a rumour and I have not heard anything that would be able to confirm it) as this system has been around long before LL even open sourced the viewer code (rumour says that it actually came out of a LL code that was made to look into posibilites of backing up inventory in the first days of SL .. and got out and found people who abused it and developed it further).
LordGregGregs actions have been great and I did the same as you with chosing Emergence and later Phoenix (however the choice for Phoenix has been taken after a test with Imprudence with Phoenix working better for me). Most of the developers followed LordGregGreg away from Emerald and those few who stayed have been those who approved of the actions or thought they have more pull then LL .. and they got the kick as they deserved.
I am happy with Firestorm now
But as always it is a personal choice if the information about the viewer any viewer creators publish are enough to take the decission of using it. After all .. we don't know what the lab is puting into the viewer too and have to trust the TPV devs to look into the code and say what is what ;P
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I have used TPVs back since Nicklaz made the first improvements to the original LL viewer. Back then it was a horrid thing that used to crash a lot (and I mean a lot and people who state that viewers are unstable have not been around back in 2006/07 XP) .. I used LL viewers now and then too but then stuck on using Cool Viewer and later Emerald fr a while before switching to emergence and phoenix and finally firestorm since I liekd the UI form the first time I have seen it.
My reasons would be the improvements made by otehr developers to the viewer and the features they included. And also more ease in building and better access to all possible settings and controls. Especially back when Emerald and Imprudence have appeared the difference between this viewers and the LL one has been giant. It was like TPVs reached a whole new level while the LL viewer have not improved in any way since years. It is no wonder that many people switched and this started the great times of TPVs.
Adding the problem with v.2 to this and it was not only functionality that drove peopel to TPVs but actually pure hate for what LL has presented. Sadly way too many people consider all viewers form LL to be v.2 and no matter how often they re told that the viewer changed completly, wont listen. Just as many people who only use the LL viewer still think that TPVs don't have the features the LL viewer has, can't see mesh and are made by a shady script kiddie in some basement. In reality of course the v.3 now seem to be a very good viewer (I have not tested it yet) and TPVs have all the features (and a few more what rises their appeal for those that like to use the specific feature a TPV offers them) and defintevly don't hold back any development (right now the only non mesh capable viewer is imprudence and since they develop mainly for opensim I don't think it is very often used on SL curretnly).
So the final choice for why one person want to use this viewer and not another is mostly jsut personal choice and what works best on the given system. Or also because soemone lieks this UI and someone else another. I prefer firestorm right now. It gives me good performence and has all features I like to use. It is also running very stable and issue free (of course only as far as 'issue free' can be said in the context of SL ;P ).
And for those who want to try out different viewers .. when they share cache then it is bad news and asking for problems. So give each viewer a separate cache so they wont get mixed up and break each other.
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This is called 'being Ruthed' after the basic SL avis name Ruth. It happens on all viewers and was much more frequent in the past before LL changed the not-loaded look into this cloud we usually see.
But Ruth is still with us and as far as I know has the same resons in not rezzing parts of the avi. Changing the bald-hairbase, replacing outfit and/or any otehr method commonly used to solve such issues should work. If not then a relog in a empty sim without many other things to rezz is an option.
I think such loading issues are usually caused by a problem with the connection between the viewer and the sim so it is we usually have little influence over. Unless that problem is with the router ones computer is connected to, but then the router simply need to be restarted.
This might fall under the 'bake fail' problem and you should look at the phoenix wiki for their list of solutions about how to fix it. It is a good list and works for all viewers the same.
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Ohhh... viewer 2 was bad. And even worse was the communication policy f LL around it that has in my opinion increased the hate towards the viewer. And while I have not tried out all the versions, the improvements started to appear rather quickly and over time the viewer has obviously overcome msot of the problem .. however by this time it's reputation has been hopelessly ruined.
The good thing is that with v.3 so much has improved that people are now willingly admiting to use a LL viewer ;D .. and those things are also used in the TPVs. Like I have always sued the v.3 look set up of firestorm since it came with this function a few versions back. More will be added by both LL and TPV devs and there are other viewers coming and going .. sadly Kirstens went away (what might be a big loss of talent for grafic improvements but it seems like another dev has picked up where Kirsten had to leave it) .. Imprudence, after all one of the more prominent viewers after the emerald implosion, seem to have vanished too and most likely completly went to opensim. I have not seen any singularity viewer in soe time also. And this one has been the choice of people who looked for stable and good viewers that would be less resource hungry then the feature filled 'heavy weights' like Phoenix or later Firestorm .. or the more advanced LL viewers.
On the other hand there is the Cool Viewer dev who brought mesh to v.1 viewers and who will most likely continue to prolong their life beyond what has been anticipated by most people. It wont ensure their long term survival I guess, but they will stay with us for the time being.
Phoenix become more and more rare from what I can tell while the new viewers have not yet reached the critical mass of being visible everywhere.
So there are viewers for everyone outthre. And more are being made and since all are open source, each improvement one viewer makes will also influence all the other. Each taste will be met and each computer will get the viewer it will run best on it.
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It is Firestorm for me. I started using it way back when it was the second or third beta version and have contineud to use it since then. It works fine, has a better UI then the old v.1 viewers, all needed features are in and it is mesh capable. And that is very important to me (mesh is just awsome ^^ and once the clothing will be made fitting to any shape it will be even more great as I wont have to only buy those thigns that fit). I prefere it over the normal LL viewer but have not yet tested any of the upcoming new viewers like 'Milkshake'. And since I am happy with Firestorm I have no reason to test them and will stick with my choice for the time being.
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Interesting that you would get complains about it. I don't remember when I have last seen a non-mesh viewer. Phoenix has disappeared from the sims I tend to visit and when I see someone with a phoenix-tag I consider it the same as I would when seeing a more exotic viewer.
Also Imprudence and Cool Viewer vanished and so far it seems to be that most people who use TPVs have opted for Firestorm. Me too (since it was out as the first beta version) as it is a nice and well working viewer.
I would only change to non mesh outfits (I just got a great mesh dress that fits me perfectly
) if mesh viewers would be in a minority. But as far as I can tell, the other is true and non-mesh viewers geting more rare every day. At least in the communities I tend ot be active in and maybe there are others where this has not yet spread into. -
Got to ORACUL:
https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/19619
And best is to look up their store inworld so you can try out and see the animations working. I am exclusively using theirs after I discovered their store since they are cheap, dynamic and very well made. And it is easy to get the free animation HUD and then stock it up with as many different animations form this store as you feel
Or use the build in AO in a viewer like firestorm if you use it (I do so I know that it has no problem with many animations too)
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LightStar - really good actually (more or less) medieval looking boots. Great for fantasy outfits
There is always something at BareRose too but it is for the most part stricktly fantasy. Caverna Obscura, ViGo and of course Eclipse Development come to mind when looking for such outfits. Especially the last one has a good selection of putfits that are worth the money (since they tend to be mroe expensive then the others).
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Coffe and Power and SL are too compeltly different things ... replacing one with the other would be like replacing a spoon with a fork and try to eat soup with it.
So no. Not likely at all and besides Phillip having launched both, those are done and run by different people for a different buisness model as well.
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Those have been evil evil names to be mentioned! After all, there are no problems in this perfect little world of ours :smileywink:
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A very good freind of mine is actually one of such store models and I guess many more of them are actual people then one might think. Bots need to be registered and while I am sure many also use soem alts, it might be more convinient to hire some peopel who are able to put their avi on a pose stand for a few hours while they work in RL, sleep or do other things.
I don't think any of them ever watches what is going on but once I had a short conversation with one of them about the clothing she was shwing. It was really nice and she has been very helpful and freindly. But for the most part store models are AFK and in my opinion their use is great because it shows much better how somethign looks inworld then many of the heavily photoshoped pictures on many vendors.
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It might be, that with all the viewers you have (I assume you have several snce you wrote about 'the rest of newest updated viewers') the cache become corrupted. It is one of the most essential things to give each viewer on your computer it's own separate cache location (those can be set in the preferences) so the different viewers wont mix up what they are using.
Also it is good to make 'clean instals' when updating a viewer. So you need to delete all the files from the old version (including those in the usually hidden windows app folder .. of course it is best to copy the chatlogs somewhere else if you want to keep them) and only then install the new version then.
And when you have set a separate cache location and install a new version of the viewer ... manually delete all the cache from the folder so the new viewer version wont get mixed up with the cache of the old.
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It is one of the things that seem to have been forgotten like script limits. And I guess mesh is still on the agenda only becasue so many people are poking and asking about it and refuse to give up even when it is beeing promised like since a year now.
So considering all that has happened I think it is safe to assume that avatar physics wont come into existence anytime soon (we got webprofiles instead *insert sarcastic 'woot' gesture here*). However they might be tied into the work that is being done on the mesh import but it is at this point all speculation.
It would be great for LL to be a bit more open about what they are working on and planning.
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Web-profiles do have lots of potential. They can be bigger, more cutumizable and much much more individual then what we have now. There is after all much more room on a webpage and I guess one could fit in as many 'picks' as one would want. And of course some links to other sites and profiles for who might like to do such things.
But this is jsut the potential. It is not reality and while LL has said, that those are a work in progress and not finsihed yet, their current state is not anywhere near anything that could be safely shown to the public. In the form, they have released it in it was bound to collect negative feedback.
It was like they missed a big red warning light flashing right into their face.
And what will be the result? Not only will the trust and faith into LL be lowered once more creating negative comments and less investment and user growth, it will also hinder the implementation of the web profile once the faults and shortcomings are corrected. Especially if it takes too long to do so (I guess the slow loading and the size of the display will remain a big problem and be a showstopper for many for some time).
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A great post! Spot on and while no one can be sure about the numbers (predictions are difficult to do, especially concerning the future
) the potential to get there is present. Of course, in order to get 22% share of world economic activity, some form of merger with RL will be neccesery. After all many firms and official businesses will be active in virtual worlds by then instead of the mainly micro-transaction hobbyist merchants that are responsible for the most part of the economic activity in virtual worlds that we see now.There are also technical problems and things liek copyright and many many many other things as well to consider, but that is not hte point.
What we should ask is more, if LL recognize those potentials and if they are actively trying to work towards such a long term goal, or if they are after short term gains that are promised to them by Facebook. Even when it risks the future and the massively increased profits gained from being the forerunner into a big curretnly emerging market.
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There have been some 'game-sims' during my time in SL, but I don't really ever looked into them. I am more for RP and while there is rarely a RP sim that follws a set story (with so far the exceptions being Battlestar Galactica RP sims, that followed a storyline loosely based on the show from the destruction of the colonies to the point of finding a new home. I took them more then a year to get thrugh it and seemed to have been lots of fun) they actually allow you to create a story and quests for yourself.
So go to the sim with the setting and community you like best, create your own quest and play on. Usually there will be people who become parts of your RP because you will find them neccesery to get to the goal you have set for yourself and when interacting with them, you will become part of their personal quests.
But of course it is diffeent then following a pre set quest and needs a bit more work ... but what can I say .. I love to do it
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I could not find the EMail I got back then and indeed, LL seem not to provide any direct method of contacting them besides the ticket system:
https://support.secondlife.com/create-case/
I looked for it all over the site and while I might have overlooked it, I rather think, that it is gone. Therefore sorry that I could not be of more help, but this does look like the technical problem I had back then. After all, if LL blocks a account then they send a E-Mail that tells so. So even when using the ticket system the problem might still be resolved quickly.
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I had this once more then a year ago. I didn't know what to do and was rather surprised but one E-Mail to LL support fixed it. I asked what it might be or if I have been reported for soemthing that I am sure I have not done ( xP ) and I got an answer within one hour telling me that there are no issues and obviously they also checked my account and I could log in again.
LL support is rarely being thanked for what they do, but in this case it was quick and nice.So the best thing to do is to contact LL support and see what they can do.
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This looks like one of the issues that has been going around the grid lately. When you change clothing, your viewer sends the command to the SL servers to change the apperence of your avi and send this information to all other avatars that are nearby. This process can of course on some point get interrupted. Maybe when your viewer try to connect with the server or the server is .. who konws why ... unable to process the request.
Luckily the fix is reasonably easy and since many people experienced this over time it is also well documented.
Try the steps described in the link below:
http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/doku.php?id=bake_fail
Besically, you need to make your viewer send a request to the server to reload everything again.
Good luck!
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Now I am not sure if this works in all viewers but Phoenix has the option to 'paste as link' . It still might be a bit of work depending on how many outfits you have saved (I have more then 80 by now
) but it speeds up the process. You copy the new item (AO in this case) and then simply go from one outfit folder to another and click 'paste as link' in the right-click-menu into each individual outfit folder you want the AO to be included in. Then of course you need to delete the old item link and all your outfits are updated. Since you need to copy the AO once and can paste it as often as you want, this can be done reasonably fast even with many outfits in need of updating. -
I would not be surprised if the battles cased because those initiating them have been banned by now and there was luckily no new replacement for this sort of griefers coming in. And those new griefers that came in found other places and people to attack and bother (and have been banend too, but there is no short supply of such people in the world). And of course .. as already mentioned .. SL become larger and the different communities moved further apart ... or of course people have simply realised how utterly pathetic such fighting is. However the fights (at least those that reach the public eye) have stopped long time ago now and that is the best thing in all this.
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I do not go to clubs usually. Gestures play a big role in the reson of 'why' as well as a often very disappointing selection of music being played. There is however one place that I go to since I discovered music-events on SL a few years ago: FRACTURE It is however only active during their events three times a week and not 24/7 (however the Fracture-Radio stream plays all the time). The usual crowd of people attending the events is always great fun and very interesting to chat with.
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This depends a lot on the version of the viewer. One made before the introduction of the code might have problems in showing the extra attachments. In Phoenix, the version 2 attachment system has been introduced in one of the later versions (I am not sure but it might have been version .725 onwards - current is .908) and I guess this is the same for other viewers. So updating to the newest version should solve the problem as this will for sure include all neccesery code. If not, then the problem might be elsewhere and geting in touch with the viewer developers might be best (they all have websites and forums and also support groups)
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As it has been mentioned in the answers so far that it happened when several viewers are being sued I think it would be best to create different cache locations for the different viewers. This is always a very good idea to do and usually problems decrease dramatically after doing so. Also creating a special cache folder helps instead of using the default cache location on the HD. At least, it helepd me.
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What third pary viewer do you recommend
in Second Life Viewer
Posted
This is a good question however the answer would be that out of those three only one I would really recomend to try. Singulariy, since Imprudence is old and has not been updated since a few months by now (the developers are working mainly on OpenSim and have dropped SL development I think totally now) and the Phoenix developers are shifting all their effort to their newer Viewer Firestorm.
I have heard good things about Singularity and if you are looking for a v.1 based viewer then trying out this one and Cool viewer would be the best option. However I would rather take a v.2 based viewer like Firestorm (that is the one I use and I sadly don't know the others well enough to recomend one .. but look for the Blog 'Nalates' Things & Stuff [i am never sure if I can post links or not so you will have to google it] as she has always in depth reviews of many different viewers and also looks at completly new ones that are not on the LL lsit yet).
As for reliability then this would be hard to tell since on the technical side it depends on the computer, the connection as well as on the way one uses the viewer and on what features are those used most often. Some viewers are better used for one thing while others are better on other fields. On the side of security then it is all about looking at the website and the information provided .. going to a office hour if provided or joining a support group (Phoenix/Firestorm has a excelent one, and they have also been very informative in this group and outside of it, like on thier viewer wiki) and then looking if the information about the people, their beheviour and openness in development are satisfacionary or not. If a viewer is active since a vers long time (Cool Viewer for example is around for several years now, has a extremly invovled and capable developer and the only reason it is not on the lsit is, because the dev does not like the list and LLs idea of viewers being on it).
For choosing the best viewer it is best to just ask around and compare the answers followed by taking up those mentioned as best (and explained why) and then testing them if they work good for you too (and when using them .. use seperate cache folders or they will negativelly affect each other). Your system seems a bit like my old one and some viewers might be a bit too 'heavy weight' for it. I have run Firestorm and Phoenix on it, but only with reduced grafics and some lag. It worked but in your case I would try Singularity frst as it has always been a viewer that was a bit mroe light then the others and offering good performence even in mor laggy areas.
Cool Viewer is another option of course but all in all there i only one thing that has to be said when it comes to chosing a viewer (this includes the LL one). There is no 'best' one. There is always just one that is best for any given person and their opinions will always differ.
So try some out, look what they offer and one of them will give you what you need to have the most fun in SL!