Rai Fargis

> The simulators in SL do 45 frames per second max and potentially much less on a crowded or graphically busy region. We always knew that, and it doesnt matter. For many users, including myself, SL worked fine in VR with a low framerate. I used the Rift DK1 in 2013. I used VR headsets before that. I use Cardboard and Durovis Dive on crappy smartphones with apps that have lower framerates than SL. > Low framerate is a lame excuse of Linden Lab for their failure to keep the Project Oculus Viewer 3.7 - which was good - in active development. Version 4.1 was a broken mess and that had nothing to do with framerate. > As for false advertising, in 2013 LL (and probably Oculus) very likely had no idea the framerate would need to be so high. Again, we knew in 2013 what the framerate of Second Life is, and for many of us it was no problem. It didnt make me sick. It didn't make me want to stop using SL in VR. We had a user that worked fine with the Oculus Rift DK2, which was version 3.7, and Linden Lab promised to make it work with CV1, then royally screwed up. I could not care less about Sansar, High Fidelity, VRchat or Altspace. My friends, my land and my projects are in SL and that's what I want VR headsets to work with, low framerate or not.

The original Rift capable CtrlAltStudio viewer was not a clone of the SL Project Oculus Viewer - it was made months earlier. It worked fine with DK2, but it was very different from Linden Lab's official Rift viewer. Because the new Oculus runtime for the consumer version Rift makes it necerssary to write entirely different code, the developer of CtrlAltStudio stopped working on his viewer and waited for Linden Lab to publish their new source code. He then wanted to update CtrlAltStudio Viewer one last time, not with his own code this time, but based on Linden Lab's. Maybe this will happen now based on the opensourced but broken Project Oculus Viewer 4.1. We'll see.

Thanks for the reply, but I think this is an extremely poor decision by Linden Lab. A decision that throws a bad light on your company. Linden Lab advertised Second Life as VR compatible for years, published a category for VR on the destination guide and released a Project Viewer (3.7) that worked very well with the Rift Dev Kit 2. The broken update for CV1 was disapointing, especially for people who had invested into VR equipment to use it with the new viewer and waited for its release since 2014. VR headsets can work well with Second Life, we saw that with the Project Oculus Viewer 3.7 and the DK2. Using a computer with modern specs, SL could be able to deliver a decent VR experience on the consumer version Rift. If Linden Lab is now giving up on VR for SL, you are breaking your promise to make this work, and everything Linden Lab did to talk this up since 2013 turns out as false advertising. Please at least publish the code for the VR viewer so the community can take over.

Hello, Linden Lab. Are you listening? Can someone who is responsible for this disaster answer here? I've been using SL for ten years now and rarely have I been more irritated. The way Linden Lab is treating VR is a shame.

I am experiencing the same problems using the Rift CV. I created a Jira case here: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/BUG-20130?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Aall-tabpanel

This does not work for me. I can't see the mouse cursor. The menu bar and chat windows are locked with my view. There are problems with stereoscopy and textures. This is awful, please fix it, Linden Lab - we waited so long. I updated my Nvidia drivers, but that didn't help either. The user interface still does not work, the mouse cursor is still gone, and there are still texture and stereoscopy problems. The old Oculus Viewer had a fine user interface and worked great (with DK2). Did anyone here get this new viewer to work with the CV?

Hi Red2Blaze. I was in Second Life with my Oculus Rift Development Kit 2 last night, using Linden Lab's Project Oculus SL Viewer and Oculus runtime 0.5. Linden Lab is still planning to produce a new VR viewer for the consumer version of the Rift using runtime 1.3. There is also a third-party viewer for the Rift from CtrlAltStudio. You are also wrong about everyone getting motion sick from Second Life in the Rift. Yes, SL's framerate is low and therefore it is not as comfortable as other VR experiences. However, using VR is something the brain gets used to the more you use it. Back in the year 2013, when I received my first Oculus Rift devkit, I used to get sick in VR after only 20 minutes. Nowadays with the DK2 I can stay in Second Life for 5 hours or more, cam zooming wildly, without ever getting motion sick. Sansar will be great, I am sure. But don't write off Second Life as a great platform for VR headsets so easily.

Oculus Rift support is currently broken but Linden is still advertising it on the Second Life website. Dear Lindens, please update SL to work with Oculus runtime 1.3 / Oculus Home, so we can use our DK2 and the consumer version of the Rift.

Okay, I tried the Beta viewer now and I must say: They did not screw up Controls. Yes, you can click spots IMVU-style to walk somewhere, but: Mouselook Mode, WASD, strafing and camera controls are still there, so it feels alright. I don't see where they "merged" modes here - it seems more like they just ditched Basic mode, which is okay to me.

>> You're right, 1.23 isn't broken it's just a horrible mashup of old code, antiquated, no longer supported, no longer updated It seems to me you never used the Singularity viewer, which is based on 1.23 yet supports Mesh, and renders faster than any other viewer. Phoenix viewer will support Mesh, too. So it's possible. Anyhow... this thread was not intended be about viewers. Maybe I was not clear enough about this in my original post. The thread is supposed to be about the possible consequences of merging Basic and Advanced controls. Rodvik Humble announced that in his latest blog post - and I think it's a bad idea, because it could dumb down the control scheme for everyone. I know I dont want to click the floor for walking to a certain spot! I want WASD controls, first person view and strafing.

Thrayce, viewer 1.23 is neither broken, nor does it make black smoke or have a hole in the floor. But to stick with your analogy for a while: Many people I know did not just turn the key in that "new car" called Viewer 2.x and start "whining". They drove around in it for several days, then decided it's not for them. I know I did. These are all the people you see with a "Phoenix" or "Singularity" tag in SL (in case you see those tags, which you can not if you are using Viewer 2.x). Frankly, you are missing the point a bit. With viewer 2.x Linden Lab "fixed" things that were not broken at all. The reason for my original post here was Rodvik's announcement to "merge" Basic mode and Advanced mode. The key word being "merge" here. If Linden Lab wants to get rid of the need to log off between switching modes: that's fine with me. But the word "merge" has a different meaning. We can not be sure what Rodvik means exactly. But it could mean that the horrible awkward IMVU-style controls of Basic mode will be imposed on all users.

In his latest blog post Rodvik Humble writes: "Soon you will see us merge the Basic and Advanced modes, which will eliminate the need to switch. All functionality will be in one mode with easier-to-use controls." I am worried about this. It makes me believe that LL wants to dumb down Second Life's excellent control scheme. Basic mode feels extremely awkward and does not even have Mouselook (first person) mode. Does LL want to kill Mouselook? They already tried to kill WASD once, and reverted that decision only after a huge user protest. Maybe I am wrong here, but I believe LL is planning to screw up the official Second Life Viewer even more than it already is. Dear Linden Lab: Do NOT dumb down Second Life's control scheme. It's fine the way it is with Mouselook mode, WASD (strafing) and great camera controls. Take a good look at the Singularity viewer. IMHO, that's a great Second Life viewer - as opposed to Viewer 2 or 3 which I think is nothing but bloated and annoying. I can not speak for anyone else, but: I strongly dislike Viewer 2/3. I tried to get used to it for days and for several times. Almost every user I meet in SL prefers alternative viewers, except for new users (until they are told about alternatives). If you, Linden Lab, change Second Life's controls to a "Basic" IMVU-style control scheme, you will lose even more users to third party viewers such as Phoenix, Firestorm and Singularity. Except for Second Life there is not a single virtual world on the market that ever got the controls right - but Second Life got them 100% right from the beginning. WASD, first person view and great camera controls. Do not mess with it. Develop a new SL viewer from the strenghts of what you have, do not think about dumbing down SL.