Drayke Newall

Just announced... Also comes in a waterproof design with optional breathing accessory (which of course costs extra)

The problem with journalists (in this case a PR CEO) like these is they always seem to confuse what the metaverse is with the majority believing it is only a facebook thing. Yes, Facebooks Metaverse is DOA, but everyone knew this would be the case as they had no substantial platform or tech developed to even show upon their declaration of them being "the leader of the metaverse". All they had was images, a plan and an already half baked, old, dead game they tried to adapt to a form of future metaverse. Business insider claiming that the metaverse is dead is a little premature and shows lack of knowledge of other leaders in the field that have plodded along with their strategy with true platform ability. These include epic's fortnite and unreal engine, minecraft, roblox, vrchat etc. Whilst Second Life is slowly plodding along the one that everyone including these so called tech journalists and even users here forget is epic. For example, their recent updates to their unreal engine, release of content creation and world creation using the fortnite engine, and most recently announced just this year their shared marketplace for content creation that is in many ways similar to Second Life's marketplace for inworld creation. These updates are all geared towards their metaverse vision and Tim Sweeney is adamant to continue with it and being successful. The metaverse was never as what Meta was claiming it to be. The metaverse is a combination of a digital presence of people engaging in activities online that predominantly revolve around a social environment such as games or hangouts. Not a virtual office or meeting place that Meta was trying to push to drive sales of their oculus rift vr goggles. Second Life also fails to realise this, continuing to push their office options. So yes, Meta's version of the metaverse failed, but that didn't even get started and was a pipedream of a company now on the endangered species list. Epic on the other hand, like other versions such as roblox etc mentioned earlier, are full steam ahead and second life is... well, plodding slowly along as it always has. Even the notion that AI is replacing the metaverse is absurd as people are using it in a manner to build the metaverse. Take for instance the idea of using AI to dynamical create in world environments with content based on a select intention, quests that use ai to change the world dynamically. Zones generated on users likes, ideas, thoughts, etc. This is Epics response to this so called business insider article declaring the metaverse dead. Epic CEO mocks ‘metaverse is dead’ notion — 600M coming to the ‘wake’ (cointelegraph.com)

I thought it wasn't to bad for once. The only two gripes I had with the video was the poor poor quality and also that horse animation (jump waaaay to high). Still think it would be better if LL showcased a lot more video's on their homepage like the ones others have posted in this thread. Would be easy enough to do as well just get rid of the static images and add the video that people click to play or autoplay on scroll). Another thing they should do is make the blog link in the top menu and far more noticeable that way people can see it is active and make lots of pics and vids not shown easily accessible. The only other thing I would say that is relevant to the video in question is that, if Linden Lab are going to feature furry avatars on the SL homepage as a way to market, they really should ensure, that when someone clicks that 'Join Free' button, that the avatars they get to select from actually HAS a furry avatar to choose. By not having that option they have just obliterated their marketing move at the very start.

You are talking about only one form of 'lag' that a person may experience in SL and that is latency lag i.e user to server. SL however is not the same as a fps game where only input lag exists. Within SL there is also server lag that affects many things that is outside of the control of a user or a users location to the server likewise there is graphics lag based on not only user content but also, viewer coding, cache issues, etc. In SL there is: Script lag, i.e. go to a high script region and you will experience lag created on the server and not client side. Temp rez lag. Created by to many object entry calls for the region with potential to crash the server. Once again server lag. Avatar region lag. Created by a region having over about 30 avatars at one time. Once again server lag. Region crossing lag. Created as your avatar, inventory and entire being is recompiled from one server to another. Server lag. Graphics lag. Created by the sl viewer not being able to utilise multi-threads, cores, latest graphics cards full potential etc. Pathfinding lag. If you played Linden Realms when the monsters were around you would have seen the monsters sometimes lag when they are chasing you where they would stop while your running and then quickly tp to you. All of those are different from the lag you talked about and recognised as lag. All of those types of lag give the same result. Slows the avatar down and makes the viewer look jerky. There is also more types of lag that can be user generated. Texture trashing is one for example.. Then there is as mentioned before, lag created by simply the process in which your computer decompiles the cache to the viewer and back again. i.e. waiting for a region to load when you tp into it. All of these types of issues mentioned are what people mean when the talk about 'lag' not just latency. All of these issues also affect the usability, workability and creation of any game in SL. Additionally, everyone that doesn't live right next to a server dont care about latency lag. People are used to it from other games etc. That's why you also dont hear anyone complain about latency lag but instead all the lag issues I mentioned above.

That's the key. I dont think any person, myself included is expecting SL to be the next COD, WoW or Civilization. I would love a ready player one experience where i can be sitting in a club and then hop to a game of COD with friends all in SL but it isn't going to happen. That is where Epic are targeting their metaverse to. There are plenty of games that could easily adapt to SL to improve retention, socialisation and things to do etc, but the current scripting, and game functions dont allow for any of it as per my previous post. A simple look on itch.io or steam shows for example how popular visual novels or visual novels with simple questing, shooting, adventure elements etc are. Can this be done in SL to any form of satisfaction? No. Here are a two examples of games that would be good for SL and that are simple that 'could' work in SL if the current tools are updated including pathfinding, animesh, temp attachments, experience tools, etc. 3D Visual novel: I tp to a visual novel region and as soon as I arrive there my avatar automatically changes (temp attachment) to the main character look. Any other person that tp's there to play as well is automatically hidden so I can not see them or interact with them (unless the visual novel creator wants that form of interaction) Upon start, an inbuilt viewer (or plugin) shows a ui (non hud attachments) where I can interact with menu's on screen similar to modern visual novel games (any one playing madpea games should know how bad hud attachments for games are) not to mention controls. I can grab quests, interact with npc's that move and talk properly to give quests, interact etc. Can this visual novel be done? No, Even though a visual novel is the simplest 'game'. Firstly, temp attachments dont work like that, secondly experience tools cannot hide other avatars or stop interaction with them (ie no public chat), thirdly, we only have huds and such hud scripting is impossible not to mention the lag they would cause and fourthly, animesh doesn't allow for highly interactive or immersive actions and nor does the audio system i.e. no large file voice acting, not movement based on situation etc. Party game/obstacle course like Fall Guys. I tp to region and queue with random other people until the round starts I move around the course using my avatar and animations like slide on belly etc I slide through, cream, jam, jump over swinging, twirling obstacles etc I can get blown off the edgy by wind, moving balls that I need to dodge etc I can pick up items and dynamically interact with them etc I have to reach the end in a certain time and if not or fall off the course I get moved to the start or another zone waiting for the game to begin again Can this be done? No. Firstly, there is no queuing system, secondly avatars cannot move or function to allow sliding, rolling jumping (other than jumping way to high) or even crouching dynamically (the animation plays but your avie height is always the same solid object height). Thirdly, there is no way to blow wind onto people that pushes them or moving objects like balls may roll but no way to weigh them down so they cannot be moved my avies etc as the physics engine just doesn't work. Fourthly, you cannot pick up items and run with them without lag delays etc. Both games or similar games would be fine for SL. Not AAA games but games that add some element of fun, socialisation, retention etc. But both are impossible in any form of fun way. Even a game like multi region Pokémon isn't possible as experience tools, whilst promised, still hasn't been upgraded to allow it.

Lets look at those released gaming systems or gaming potential systems that are broken/unfinished and haven't been updated since they released: Pathfinding - so bad and not updated that LL actually removed it from their Linden Realms due to it not working properly and lagging Temp attachments - doesn't remove already worn items anymore or cant recognise not to replace mesh body etc i.e only recognises now 'add' and not 'wear' which they claimed as a 'fix' instead of creating new command LlAddAttachToAvatar they just made LlAttachToAvatar add instead of completely replace. Both are needed not just add like LL have implemented. Animesh - very basic and lags the region when used, not to mention takes so much land impact if you want them to look realistic making them pointless as an npc for any game specific function. Animesh attachments - only allowed 1 and max 2 to wear despite needing more especially for non human avatar gameplay. i.e think of a dragon humanoid character. Tail, wings, ears. Thats three and the bare minimum still would need more. Experience Tools... still waiting for those promised features Windlight - gimped with no clouds (flight games), dynamic weather (reduce lag by not having temp rez weather systems) or ability to block sunlight with objects (reduce lag/li from not having to have mesh/prim layers to make a cave or under a bridge dark) Physics...physics and pathfinding...and just physics Inbuilt viewer combat system Take the above mentioned inbuilt combat system in the SL viewer. It hasn't been updated since before SL released yet, would reduce combat related lag exponentially if it was updated. Currently we have to rely on multiple scripts to perform - input > viewer > hud > Gun > viewer > hud > floating text > viewer and sometimes > region systems. With an updated combat system enabled on a region however all you would have is input > viewer > gun > viewer > viewer. By removing the combat hud it dramatically reduces the script lag. Yet, LL in their infinite wisdom dont bother to updated the viewer/region combat system so we are stuck with asking people to remove as many scripts (including ao sometimes) from the avatar just to do combat. The sad reason why practically nobody uses those game features you mention is because they dont work or are so basic they may as well not work.

Linden Lab dont track the name at all for such purposes for reasons Qie mentioned. The name is only relevant for the identification of the object in the inventory of the creator/owner and system prompts, etc. All objects and avatars in Second Life are assigned a unique Asset UUID (refer here: UUID - Second Life Wiki ) and it is this that LL ban/remove it by. Prioritising and simplifying can go hand in hand. LL need to prioritise what is important and from that simplify the mobile viewer to ensure that whilst simplified it doesn't detract from a persons use, retention and Second Life requirements. Take for example the build menu. Everything in that cannot be prioritised as all of the functions it contains are needed to build effectively. That said, if LL want building using prims to be part of the mobile viewer, they cannot use the same build menu as fingers on a mobile will not be able to select the right option. This then means that LL can either simplify the ui, simplify building with prims, introduce new building mechanics or leave building to the desktop viewer and allow item rezing and placement of items in the viewer only. This means that in this case LL need to prioritise what they want in the mobile viewer (i.e. only rez and placement) however from there, need to simplify those commands to ensure that they work and have ease of use in the mobile viewer. This is how for example Roblox do things. They have the program everyone downloads on PC, console and mobile to 'play' Roblox environments, however, they also have a PC only program called studio that is used to create those environments. Avatar customisation however is different. Everything that involves avatar customisation would be needed for a Mobile Viewer to be successful. They cannot prioritise x feature over y and therefore have only one option, keep everything but alter the UI and avatar customisation to function better than we have now. There is a use for both prioritising and simplifying (dont like that word as making something easier to use with a better ui isn't simplifying). It just that sometimes and in most cases with Second Life you cannot prioritise.

LMAO so let me get this right. You say there is no way to categorise content nor is there any categorisation of existing content, however when someone posts that there is and always has been, you say that person has no clue. Of course there is currently no system as the marketplace and second life are not linked in that way. Doesn't mean they cant be. Also all what you posted is easily fixed with with standards being introduced which, many people in this thread have stated as such, yet you continue to hamper on about no, no that's not possible. You also say that because users input where their item belongs in the category this opens it up for mistakes and doesn't guarantee the correct category. True, but the same can be said to all those regions that are categorised under shopping places in search yet they offer no stores or things for sale. Based on your logic and reasoning this means that Linden Lab should not have categories for search of regions because there is no way for 'the system' to identify what exactly a sim has on it. Please... if your going to use such pathetic arguments at least try to hide them as better ones. Every thing anyone puts forward as an option as to why SL needs mobile or is looking forward to mobile or identifies glaring issues with the current system you just rail against it as clearly your one of those that dont like change, everything is ok as it is and oh look a Linden can I have your autograph type. You are clearly not here for a discussion but to troll. Expect no more discourse from me with you. I dont feed trolls.

You are joking right? Currently a total of 8,483,195 existing objects (if not more) are categorised and even have pictures included of said content. Of that, 3,520,459 objects (including mesh and system layered clothing) are categorised as apparel, of which includes: Children's: 179,417 Clothing Textures: 18,002 Men's: 393,986 Unisex: 65,197 Women's: 2,728,659 Taking those 2,728,659 Women's clothing they include: Women's Bottoms: 220,605 Women's Clothing Fat Packs: 32,375 Women's Costumes: 190,508 Women's Dresses: 627,338 Women's Footwear: 283,806 Women's Intimates: 186,583 Women's Outerwear: 45,549 Women's Outfits: 448,282 Women's Swimwear: 79,232 Women's Tops: 349,233 Taking those 627,338 Women's Dresses they include: Casual Dresses: 145,454 Cocktail Dresses: 37,535 Formal Dresses: 95,119 Summer Dresses: 30,400 Taking those 95,119 Formal Dresses they include: Bridal: 5092 Formal Gowns: 63057 I could do the same for body parts, tattoos, hair, unmentionables, piercings, Avatar accessories, complete avatars, furry clothing and even furry avatar components like heads and legs if you wish as well. But, you keep on going thinking no categories of clothing has existing in the past 20 years or not believing the fact we have had item categorisation since well before 2009. LMAO 🤣 Also, why stop there, you could even go further and have a home decorating system where plants, furniture etc are automatically categorised in a nice little menu called "House" that all a person needs to do is click the house button and in there are all their home decoration objects with a nice picture ready to drag out and rez. All without ever looking in an outdated inventory tree directory or having to rez the object out because there is no visual hint to what the object is other than a yellow cube. As I said earlier, 90% of everything required to set up such an avatar customisation system (and more) is already in place. If Linden Lab can't figure out the last 10% then they have no right calling themselves developers. Then show me a system in any viewer, default or TPV, that has what I have shown in the image I posted that doesn't require a user to use the current outfit tabs that are designed to save a complete outfit as per their intended use (per the LL troubleshoot and wiki). Which includes a system that categorises clothing correctly for ease of editing your avatar. If you can't (which I am 100% sure you can't) then any other methods you state are invalid as no new user would or should be needed to work out how to do it otherwise via a workaround. You cannot claim that just because you use a workaround to a system designed for a different thing that you know how a system should be used over a person that uses it as its intended use. As per what @Arielle Popstar mentioned, workarounds are not a solution and are part of the problem.

The only thing the name on an object serves is for identification by the user, nothing more. Updates for objects and anything else related to that object are handled by UUID. Adding a new line for the owner isn't necessary at all. What Linden Lab should do is simply remove editing the name from the no-mod system. The object stays no-mod but the name of the object can be changed.

It is still a valid point and in no way a strawman argument as content is what makes people come and makes people stay. If those new users travel around sl and find out that boat has terrible navigation, movement and controls, switch to another boat and it is the same then yes that lack of scripting ability WILL and DOES affect that new persons opinion. They dont need to know that x script is missing or y script does this. They experience it and that is enough based on what they have experienced in other software, games and platforms. What the hell are you on about. I am not implying anything. I only have data and experience from the PC platform of the viewer as that is all we have at the moment. It is a known fact that new users dont stick around because of the cost to buy a decent looking avatar is high. There are even threads in these very forums from said users saying as such. I wrote PC Platform to make sure that you didn't think I was talking about the mobile view. Everyone else seemed to understand what I meant... I'm sorry, I must have missed the category in the outfit menu labelled shirt that has a list of all the shirts in my inventory or those I saved as an individual entity not part of an outfit that I can add from that shirt menu without having to find them in my inventory. I am not talking about an item saved to an outfit or an item the avatar is already wearing, which somehow you think that is what I am talking about. The fact that you didn't even know what I was talking about shows you have no idea what people are asking for when we are talking about streamlining and improving the viewer. Who said I was talking about the start menu? Perhaps you haven't seen the notification menu that slides from the right. Or the menu that Microsoft edge has that you click a button and a menu slides from the right. Or the same on literally every software, game, OS, etc, created since 10 years ago. Also who cares if its a slide out menu or a separate window. Give me my screen real-estate back! Where I dont have to have a separate build, inventory and chat window open when I build. One window that allows me to flick between each menu is perfectly fine. I want to see the SL world not a screen of windows, HUD's and a tiny fraction of the world. THAT is what I am suggesting. No one here is saying to clone MMO's lmao. You seem to have this idea that we want a UI exactly like an mmo. No one has ever said that. We have provided examples of ui elements that function and may work. We dont want a copy of the UI of an MMO. We want the way that they manage things. For example you think I am suggesting to clone the UI of an MMO or Avakin life where you can choose 5 heads etc and that is it for avatar customisation. Nothing of the sort. What I and some others are suggesting however to streamline things is to update the outfit menu to something like this: Where the appearance menu/outfit menu is used to not only save outfits (right of image) but also have a section where you can preview and wear a shirt, pants etc in a categorised menu that is in the same place as other avatar customisations and separate from the inventory removing the need to remember where it was put. But it doesn't stop there, then there is attachment point issues, wear vs add, items not rigged appearing on the avatar in odd rotations, ao's affecting other bento items when they shouldn't, animations moving attached items not rigged to a different position, eyes tracking issues, huds, more huds and more huds, lagging sims. Things that should have standards, you know, if I have a ring for the finger it attaches to the finger bone not my eye and appears on my finger. If you think adding things to an already existing window is copying the UI of an MMO or fixing known issues with dressing and editing the avatar then... well... I dont know what to say to that.

No but the lack of content that can be provided to make those users stay is limited due to that scripting therefore affecting retention. But what do I know, it's not like Linden Lab have any plans to release this year new code for such a reason... Oh wait... Did I say that they complain that a computer is to costly? No. I said that Second Life has a high cost especially at start up. But what do I know, its not like Linden Lab have any plans to reduce this start up cost by making a new avatar so as a user doesn't need to buy one from a creator to look as good... Oh wait... Actually they do. Perhaps you should look outside of talking to noobs inside SL and talk to the ones that left. Avatar customisation is hugely more complex than it needs to be. Where have I said to dumb down the viewer? I haven't said anything as such at all. Making improvements to the viewer to streamline its functions and bring little used features to the forefront to have a use, etc, is not dumbing it down. Why should a person have to go to their inventory to do most avatar customisation when within SL is an outfit window made specifically for avatar customisation? A system hardly known or used. A system that if made better to allow for all customisation (i.e. adding clothes etc) would dramatically not only reduce inventory performance issues, but improve user retention as well. An already made system that can easily be modified to allow for all avatar customisation as 90% of the coding is already there. But according to you that is dumbing down the UI? Never said such a thing. Dumbing down a viewer is removing features. Improving features is not dumbing down nor is making the UI more user friendly, easier to find things, having systems that belong in 'x' place be there and not in 'y' place. On the contrary, I want them to add features, especially those they have taken out such as the full windlight and nimbus cloud system that Linden Lab promised to add in their 2007 acquisition announcement. A system that would increase user retention, decrease performance issues, remove unnecessary temp prims flooding sims, etc. When did I ever say to add a "bleeding edge 3D modelling app"? All I have ever said is allow for prims to be joined into one object and extend the cutting of a prim further using boolean commands. That is not increasing viewer complexity at all. As a matter of fact it is reducing it as it removes the need for multiple linksets, multiple additional textures, extra loading etc. It also increases user retention as it allows people to build in world competitively giving those new users something to do. You know, the same tools that Second Life's co-founder Corey has stated should have been added when mesh was released. I also said they need to bring in a better material system that had more options than Normal, Diffuse and Specular. Seems LL agreed as we have PBR coming soon. Such a thing would in no way increase the viewer complexity. Also very odd how you say a slide out menu is the worst UI element ever, considering every UI imaginable now has such a system. If it is good for, other games, Microsoft office, Windows 10 and 11, Autodesk, Adobe, blender, firefox, chrome, edge, android, mobile ios, facebook, gmail, outlook, synology os, etc. But hey, what do all those multi billion dollar companies know about UI design when you say such UI design is bad.

It is never solely about whether those users will migrate to Second Life from such apps. Sure that is the end goal, however, in business for the research of potential markets, such numbers are useful as it indicates that there is a market their to tap into and provide examples of what people want as far as an app goes. For example IMVU has a total of 50million registered accounts and 10millon monthly users. Avakin has a total of 200million registered accounts and 1million daily (not monthly) users. LL can then work out from this that people are far more interested in what Avakin offers over IMVU so gear their app more towards that. I.E, better UI, avatar customisation and world editing. The primary reasons why Second Life fails to retain its users on its PC platform is due to the high cost, complex viewer, limited scripting and graphics and lack of 'things to do' for a new person. Those are the issues that LL need to ensure doesn't follow onto the mobile platform and if they can achieve that the retention will improve. The good thing about those 'reasons' mentioned is that they also will improve the main viewer retention as well. No one is asking for a replica of IMVU or Avakin to replace Second Life, just take them as an example of how LL could potentially make SL better. For example, I certainly wouldn't complain if second lifes avatar customisation system less convoluted and was more streamlined. A mobile app isn't such a negative thing as it is making Linden Lab look outside the box on how to make improvements in things such as UI, lag, engine updates, etc all the while offering Second Life to a larger userbase.

Avakin Life a mobile virtual world has over 200 MILLION registered accounts and over 1 MILLION daily users (compared to Second Lifes 200,000). So what's your point again?

Surface Tablets are a little different than most tablets in that they are basically a mini computer and can run any program that can run on a desktop. I can run the full SL Browser or Firestorm on mine just fine. Sure not on ultra graphics but still completely playable without needing a downgraded mobile app such as the one planned for IOS and Android. Can either use the a keyboard and mouse or the standard surface keyboard and touch pad that can be bought as an added extra.

Agree, and it is those same omissions that I think LL need to worry about with Mobile. Whilst yes, Sansar had different omissions that were 'eventually to be planned in future updates, like sitting, avatar customisation, or as you say better socials, if the SL mobile app is released the same way, with omission's that are expected and the excuse 'they will come later in future updates' then it will fail the same way as Sansar. Have we even heard from LL whether interactivity is in the Mobile app from release? In the video seen there was no instance of being able to sit, touch, use, buy, etc only move and explore.

It wasn't because it was a new product. The potential was there for it to succeed. What caused it to fail was that they released it in stages of content. So they released a few features first, then the next etc. This despite everyone telling them to release a final product. Very similar to how you suggested mobile viewer. There are certain expectations a person is going to have in downloading something. If for example a program is known for avatar customisation, chat, exploration as a main focus (such as second life) then those are going to be expected from the get go. The fact that Second Life has over 20 years worth of being around would even more so drive that. Just as Sansar being advertised as a place where you can build and interact with the environment. People expected the interaction part, however, didn't get it from the start (it was more a museum of signs saying dont touch) so no one took a second look at it. That all said, like I mentioned it is going to depend on what LL expected demographics are. If this thread is any example of what the existing user demographic uptake would be then based on responses here, it does not look good.

Unity offers a world of other possibilities. Whilst I dont particularly like the unity engine, there could be the potential to offer other things other than TPV's. For example, there is nothing stopping Linden Lab in allowing people or those TPV's in creating plugins or mods to the viewer rather than having a separate viewer not controlled by Linden Lab. There is the possibility of still allowing for RLV, UI changes, different rendering, etc, all done in the viewer via an app/mod download section. Other companies run their games and systems using this and it has worked for over 20 years. Second Life is possibly the only software system/engine that is made by a software company that allows for multiple different versions through open source whilst keeping their own default software to download separately. Whilst yes it allows for a lot of choice, it is fundamentally flawed in that it hampers Linden Labs viewer creation, it imposes issues as far as retention (telling new users to download different viewers), impacts on new features where LL released and another TPV changes it or doesnt even implement it. A plugin system that could be implemented through a newer unity engine viewer would fix all of these issues as new users and existing users get the same viewer however options to edit that viewer that doesn't involve confusing people as to which viewer is best. As for TPV's and whether they will still be allowed, who knows, that's beyond anyone's guess atm. That said, just have a look at Berry Bunny's Crystal Frost viewer. That viewer, whilst still very alpha, is completely Unity based and to be honest, just based on graphics and being able to have actual waves and boat wake etc on linden water and prims vs the flat water we have now is a HUGE improvement for retention of people that want to RP boating.

Whilst the could start with those things they are only things that will interest current users. If that is the only demographic LL are looking at then, fine. I believe however that (and would assume LL would also) would be a waste of development cost considering the uptake of mobile for existing users will be small vs any expense they have put into developing it. If they are looking at using mobile as a method to grow their userbase and most of all to show that SL is still a major player in the metaverse, as they should be looking this mobile viewer as, then they have to have systems from the start that will entice the mobile userbase to try it out. Basic functionality in this instance has to have at a bare minimum all of what you have said INCLUDING avatar customisation and basic placement of items, i.e. rez, move and rotate. It does not need creation to be provided. Why would anyone move from Avakin Life which is available on both Android, Windows and Apple, who offer building, editing, avatar customisation, socialising as well visiting clubs, etc, and support of RL businesses such as Nike and the like, if all Second Life's app offers is a glorified msn messenger and walking simulator. People seem to think Avakin Life is small compared to SL however it is the only virtual world comparable to SL with many more players. All we have to do is look at how SANSAR performed to realise that Linden Lab releasing an unfinished non interactive viewer for mobile will make it take the same path as SANSAR, dead on arival as many of us hinted at to Linden Lab well before release. SANSAR failed due to may aspects but those aspects included lack of avatar customisation, lack of basic editing and lack of interactivity (ie not being able to sit).

No it is the perfect analogy. You cannot compare the mobile version of Second Life to the Desktop version as one runs on unity/vulcan (more than likely) and the other on OpenGL and some other engine LL made. If LL per their LabGab want to eventually have a fully functional viewer on the mobile app, then it would also be just like I compared, console vs pc as the ui would be different, how you access things, how things are rendered, etc and require different coding. You are missing my point. I am not talking about how they make their money but how they spend it. If their expenses outweigh their income then they are not profitable. If they are having to spend money on two development teams one for mobile unity/vulcan version to create a full version on mobile and another for openGL desktop version then they would be wasting their money as Unity can provide for both. No company would do this especially when one version is far past its use-by date and the other offers FAR more. Therefore if the unity version on mobile offers a better experience potential to both platforms, ease of use, ease of upgrade, scalability, better graphics, etc, then that viewer is the most profitable as it offers the cheapest development cost and a higher retention due to improved graphics, ese of use, better UI, etc. You cannot expect LL to split staff between two different versions that run on ENTIRELY different engines. The two will still exist (mobile and desktop), however the unity version from mobile will start to replace the desktop version with BOTH operating the same way, same engine, ui, etc. No, it is different, as the viewer for both Windows and Apple are made with openGL and a engine made by Linden Lab (as far as I am aware). This means that whilst yes it involves tinkering, they basically run on the same API and the same engine. The mobile version is different in that it runs on Unity an entirely different engine to what Second Life runs on and also supports Vulcan which LL need to upgrade to.

Unfortunately like all things it will come down to money spent vs profit. Providing support, development, etc on two different viewers will take a lot of development time and money especially if they intend to make the mobile viewer have all the features of the desktop which the Lindens at LabGab implied. Also given that one runs on unity/vulkan whereas the other runs on openGL which was last updated to its stable version in 2017 would also impact on the future. In the end it will more than likely mean that the whichever viewer garners the most users and is easiest to update will become the default which is what we see in even large gaming companies with far bigger profits. It is very rare now for a gaming company for example to make a separate PC version when console is the dominant userbase. Instead the PC version becomes a port of the console version. If the mobile unity version becomes the more profitable viewer, offers far more scalability and allows for more newer features, it is almost guaranteed that that viewer will be merged to the desktop version in some manner bringing over, as Coffee stated, things that will affect every aspect of the second life current desktop experience.

Unless as part of this new unity based mobile viewer they have also changed the way you customise your avatar to a more simple and mobile version that isn't as convoluted as what we have with the desktop version (what some of us users have been wanting for ages) or added a way to easily place and move items in world, then this viewer will not bring in many new people nor really be taken up and have continual use by current SL users. Whilst I would love to have a mobile viewer, if it doesn't have functionality of the most desired uses people use SL and virtual worlds for, Barbie dress up/Barbie dream house and explore in a user friendly UI manner then it will be DOA with $$ wasted on development just like LL did with SANSAR. LL need to listen to not only their userbase but also look at their competitors on mobile. From the look of the demo they have explore working but seems they refuse to believe that a mobile viewer needs avatar customisation and basic world editing. @Mojo Linden I suggest you take a look at Avakin Life. If you want the SL mobile viewer to be used by not only SL users but also a way to tap into the huge userbase mobile has to offer then this viewer has to offer more - far more. Even if it takes another years development, dont be like your predecessors, get it right from the start and dont play catch-up. For reference, your competitor on mobile Avakin life has 200million accounts and 1million daily users, far more than even Second Life's desktop version of 70million and 200,000 respectively. To pull users away from that you are going to have to have a much more functional viewer to compete. Also, if you are going to have this available on google and ios you are going to have to think further than just the viewer. If people can sign up and login directly from the mobile viewer how will those users go with new user island when all the tutorials etc are only for the desktop viewer controls?

The problem with quoting OZ is that he doesn't quite tell the whole story - yet people believe him not matter what. No where did Ebbe or Oz state that simply moving to AWS will reduce their cost. No where do users also say that moving to AWS 'as is' should be 'dramatically cheaper'. He uses half truths as a response to those users saying it should be 'dramatically cheaper'. Go look back at the very first announcement that Ebbe and Oz did for the AWS move. Here they quite clearly and comprehensively had a laid out the plan that they intended to use to make AWS cheaper, SL more profitable (to allow dramatic lowering of land fees) and to make SL more marketable. It was the following: Move SL to AWS so as to save on upgrade costs, rent, building maintenance, electricity cost etc. This is what Oz touches on in your quote and where Oz leaves it not mentioning the rest of the plan giving a false narrative. Use AWS to offer SL users an on demand system. I.E. if a sim isn't in use for a certain period of time the server gets spooled down and reduces the load on AWS servers and when a user tps to that server the sim spools up and comes online again (therefore costing less in fees LL need to pay Amazon). This method was to be done as an offering where a land owner could either pay less for such a sim (with small inconvenience of waiting for the server to load when you tp there) or pay more for a dedicated sim that is always on. This is how Kitely manage there servers (also hosted on AWS just like SL) and they can offer sims for as little as $15/month for an 'on demand server' or a dedicated sim price of $149.95 to be always active (i.e. similar price to SL and still having multiple sims hosted on the server, except providing FAR more prim allowance than SL). Make SL assets hosted on additional and more local AWS servers therefore reducing ping (and increasing usability) for those not in the USA. For reference below are the direct quotes from Ebbe regarding their plan for AWS and for each step. Ebbe being the then (and last) CEO provided the how on cost saving as well as improvement in stability as that is what a CEO does, looks at the whole picture not just the technical side. Also keep in mind, this would have all been discussed in the board room and details finalised prior to the announcement so what is quoted below can be taken as all being possible from a technical standpoint as Oz would have certainly interjected if it was not. Step 1 (saving capital cost): Step 2 (saving running cost and passing savings to users through reduced tier): Step 3 (reduction in latency for improved experience for non-usa): Out of all of that plan and potential options set out to lower cost of Second Life for both LL and the user they have done only one thing - Step 1. Last I heard regarding that plan and just before Oz left was that all of that plan was now on hold and likely to be stopped due to the new owners. So it is not quite as simple as move to AWS and everything is cheaper and better. No one said that EVER. It is far more comprehensive and they had a long term plan to see that reduction of which, has now by the looks, been abandoned by new management.

I dont think it is that they dont have the talent, as like I said, all that is needed is to edit the code/ui to have an extra window for clothes. If they dont have the talent to edit existing code with all the majority code already written to modify an existing feature slightly then that's a whole different discussion bordering on LL should just give up the entire program. It plain and simply comes down to Linden Lab not believing that such a feature is worth their time and effort or is too hard. Take for instance the thumbnail preview recently announced. LL would never bother with such a thing, not because they dont have the talent but because they dont want to spend the time on such features. So instead, they wait for 3rd party viewers to do it or for someone to go to Jira and post the code or design the ui for the feature for them instead and then they look at it more seriously. As to having a website-based system, it just won't work. For starters you are even more so adding complexities for the user especially the new user. Features that are fundamental to conducting a user's second life experience such as inventory and outfit management need to stay within the viewer without having to attach a hud that degrades performance for a user and is easily detached accidently when changing outfits etc. As to performance, there is no performance or speed issues with the current outfit manager so I cannot see how expanding it would have an impact. As to how quick LL could implement a ui based solution, like I said, the bones are all there so it should take less time that buying and adapting a website system a user created. I also dont think it is a matter of LL competing with a user's product on marketplace and if the reason is that for them not providing an update to the outfit management to include clothes, then they need to get out of that mindset as there are certain things that need to be a UI requirement not just for the new user but also quality of life. I am not sure whether the coding for the outfit management requires server-side editing, however if it doesn't and what I posted can all be done with viewer code then a 3rd party viewer creator could technically do it if they wanted to. That however would need someone with viewer experience to see of such a thing is possible.

Why would they need to buy out an inventory management system for clothing like that when they basically have it already in the viewer in the form of the outfit window. It just needs updating to what it should have been when released and not half done. The problem with the outfit window is that LL did two things wrong. Firstly, they made it so that you had to pay to take a snapshot of your outfit and secondly, they made it so that two outfit tabs do identical things (one picture, one text) rather than separating one tab as outfit and the other tab as a clothing organisation tab. All LL need to do is make it so that the 'My Outfit' tab has the outfit picture with a 'hover on pic to view larger image' and make a new tab where you have a dropdown named clothing menu system and then use a similar save function to the outfits (creates a link to the original item (say shirt) but has it under a folder called 'Shirts' in the existing outfits folder) but instead for individual clothing items where a user can either drag the image provided from the creator as a picture link or allow the user to take a photo of the item themselves to add as a link. Something like this: Not hard to do at all as the base scripting, window, function, item links, inventory folders etc are already there just need modifying to allow for outfits AND clothing items. Could also add a few new things like a favouriting clothing item system as well as the ability to group clothing items (and outfits) under custom groupings. Lastly, they just need to make taking pictures for the outfits tab ONLY free. As to your 'recently worn' items request, just have it located in the 'Wearing' tab, rename it as 'Wearing/Recent' and then have a split view with Recently Worn Items as one section with date last worn next to items and then another section with 'Currently Worn'. All 'appearance' related stuff is then in one easy to find and use window, allows for easy outfit and clothing/skin management for completely new users as well as old users (for only items you want to appear there) without removing features and systems current users like and use. Identical to the MP link you posted except in the current SL UI without LL needing to pay a user for their product which they won't do. Easy... though will never happen as LL dont update such features.