Miyo Darcy

Freecilla Kuhn wrote: Make the pole the root prim with the rotation script in it. Unlink it, edit the triangle hold shift and click on the pole and link. rotation script? I do not talk about a rotation script. lol I talk about manualy rotate an linked object.

I also have a bigger friendlist on SL and I can tell you that no one is using any V2 based Viewer. Most of them are still underway with Phoenix Viewer. BUt the real horror is that these Viewers are soon disabled from the servers. As I own a 3d application and wanted to check out mesh import.. I gave V2 a chance. But I must say it is the biggest pain of software I ever used. There is in fact no usability and as you said they missed it to give us creators tools we need. One simple example I miss pretty much (and you know what? that is a basic feature in every 3d application and available in Phoenix Viewer!)... I miss it to be able to rotate linked objects at axis on root. The option is called "Edit axis at root" in Phoenix Viewer. Really... tell me one reason why LL is unable to add this simple feature to V2? Im just schocked. Instead of those really importend features they heck out stuff and features like "Give your avatar crazy ROFL-LOL-RESIDENT-LOVEGIRL-KIDDY-LMAO-hAcKeR1333-POWNER-NAMES". That was importend? All I know is that I now see dozend of pretty crap kiddy and wannabe hacker names out there on the SL Grid. So rotating an object axis depending on which kind of linked set you clicked, seems to be an irrelevant feature for LL. Today.. I still think that Phoenix Viewer is the best Viewer for creators. They at least added features for creators. Very helpful features. V2? I get pains by using that Viewer. I dont see usabilty there.. I also dont find new great features. ALl I see is that they messed up every single function you can find in SL. Disorganized Viewer..defently illogical UI and at least mega huge sidebars which will teach you to hate a software. However I could write here so much... but if I do or not.. Linden Labs hold on there plans and anyway wont listen to the majority. But yes... I am pretty much sure the creators in SL are the backbone.. and LL is not far way from bursting this backbone.

I now found out that Viewer 2/3 doesnt have "Edit axis at root" option. Linden Lab... please add such a basic function. I cant really believe that this basic option is missing in your viewer.

That VIewer 3 is the biggest pain you can get. I still dont find it. I logged to phoenix viewer and found an option called "axis on root" in just a second. Sadly I work with mesh project right now so that I cant use any other viewer then Number 3. I am searching and searching and just cant find the option I am looking for. There is nothing in any build options. Neither in the build menu or in the build drop down on top. So you sadly couldn´t help... anyway thanks That did cost me hours already for searching. Soon I guess this Viewer cant rotate things around a rootprim. Its a pain to find things in V3. I wish they would not shut down the good old viewers.

Madeliefste Oh wrote: Miyo Darcy wrote: I think soon the marketplace will sadly be floated with ripped modells. I don't think so. Models sold on 3d models sites are not suitable for SL. In general they are build in a away that they will be much to prim heavy for SL.People can buy for example a nice chair on a model site, or find a free chair model, but then when they bring it in SL the primcount might be 55. Who is going to buy that? While there a are nice 1 or 2 prims chairs available as sculpt? And in the future low prims chairs in mesh. You must be skilled in 3d to adjust a bought model for SL. It's a lot of work to make it suitable for the needs of the SL grid. It might take less time to model your own chair than to prepair someone else model for SL. When you make it yourself you have the advantage you are the IP right owner of the model. I dont think so. On turbosquid for example you will find a section which is called "game ready".. and those are low poly. I guess you can sort that out on other websites as well. So they will find ready and lowpoly objects in my opinion. That will sadly be a problem.

How can I do it that the center point is not on the triangle but instead of that on the pole? I want to move this whole object aroun the center point of the pole and not the triangle cube. In fact I want to rate the pole with all linked objects but the pole should stay on its point while rotating. I dont find a way in Viewer 3. Anybody has an idea?

I think soon the marketplace will sadly be floated with ripped modells.

I am alos excited of the mesh. Had much fun on the beta grid and now on the main grid. I know I dont say that often but this time.. Thank you Lindens!

At the moment I tested lots of differend ways to build stairs, rails and so. I must say when I started this thread here, I had 10.000 polys or so. Now I get it to make similar or same objects with just 1000 polys. I think that is my first success when we talk about poly reducing. So here I am happy and again and again a great thanks to you all for discussing that with me. But now there is another problem I need some input.. or at least an idea what the heck is wrong with my object. Its all about phisycs now. As you can see... I made another version of a spiral staircase and had sucess to upload it to the beta grid. The main problem here is, nevermind which kind of physics I use.... I cant go up... I cant even enter the first stair. Physicaly it looks like the round stairrails act like a closed or solid cylinder. In fact I cant enter all the first stairs. I know the rail is the problem as I checked something out. I moved the rail for test reasons 5 meters up... and see there? I can go up all the stairs! For test reasons I checked all kind of physics upload methods. low.. medium.. high... also with collada modell as physics. The problem is still there. Why does second life see my rails as a solid closed cylinder? I cant even see that in physic preview while upload. When I for example choose my modell as physics.. or the high physics.. in the preview window it looks like everything is calculated right (yellow exactly on the mesh). I now had hours of headache and I really didnt find a solution.Anybody knows whats wrong here? The rails are made out of one helix spline and one square spline which are a childobject of an sweepnurbs (This is the way how you can make those rails in C4d). Later i made the object editable in c4d, which means it is not nurbs anymore. It is an poly object. Hope someone has an idea. EDIT: Looks like I found the solution here: http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Mesh/Mesh-Building-problem-invisible-obstruction/td-p/1026179

Wonderful idea... and if there is someone who can make that for Cinema 4d too, I´ll be a happy person for ever

York Jessop wrote: Ahh I see, I must have read about an FBX plug in for cinema 4d then. I hope you find the tools you need in cinema 4D, I know what its like trying to use a 3D program your not used too, I did make a find via google on this topic now. I think there is something in Cinema 4d which is similar to smooth edges in blender. In Cinema 4d it is a TAG which can be applys to any object via right clicking the object in the object browser and then go to "Cinema 4d Tags >> Phong". I found it here descriped: http://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/files/file/107-the-phong-tag/ For those who use Cinema 4d and read over this thread here.. you can also get help when you type "phong" into cinema 4d help. In german it is called "glätten". I made a quik test with a 6 sided cylinder: Without Cinema 4d Phong Tag With Phong Tag on the object: If I click the phon tag themselfe I can edit: - angle-constraint [activate/deactivate] - smooth to [VALUE in DEGREES] - broken edge analyzing [activate/deactivate] I think that must be the equvalent to the smooth edges in Blender I will play a bit with that now.

York Jessop wrote: As Drongle mentioned, its just a shading effect so it doesnt add any more polys or make any difference to your PE. I personally use Maya so im not sure about cinema 4D or if it has an equivalent. Are you able to export .obj files from cinema 4D? If it doesnt have soft or hard edge tools, you could always import it into blender and do it from then, then reexport it as collada. EDIT: Just reading about cinema 4D, I understand it uses an FBX exporter for collada? Hate to say this but you may experience alot of problems with that, Maya has one too and I had no end of problems with it, I eventually removed it and installed the OPENCollada plug in which works flawlessly. First of all thank you Drongle that you greatly explained how it works. I think I understand that now. At York... I think this works with any option in the texture settings in Cinema 4d then. I can setup shaders there. How its done with smooth edges in C4d I dont know but at least I have now tons of informations here so that I can discuss this in a german c4d forum. There are some professionals who propably can tell me how its done in Cinema 4d. Thanks for that to you all. About the Cinema 4d collada exporter... No I think FBX exporter plugin is for 3ds Studio. in the manual I see Cinema 4d collada is from http://www.khronos.org/ . So it is not FBX. Your right... if I dont find a solution in Cinema 4d with help from the C4d forums.. then I still could export to blender as a workaround. But the main problem is that I dont used Blender much. In fact I would have to learn the blender workflow then. Im still sure that it can be done by shader settings in C4d, I just dont know exactly how. Atm. I read manual and help in the application to find that out. But I also will ask for that in a C4d User Forum. If I find out anything, I will drop this in the thread here then so that this maybe helps other SL and C4d Users as well. All that is pretty much interesting and Im excited what those tools can do today At Drongle.. is that ok for you if I use your smooth edge reference picture in a german C4d forum so that I can better explain and discuss what can be done with Blender and to get help how it can be done in C4d?

York Jessop wrote: I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count. After reading again through this thread as I found it interesting, I have again to quote you York. I want exspecialy point in the quote to "creating a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges". I did try to find methods in Cinema 4d to make 6sided cylinder visual and round appearing. I did not find anything about "Soft Edges". I assume that word comes from blender as well? I now try to find out, what possibilitys I have with cinema 4d. Also after reading google I did not find soft edges related to cinema 4d. Can anyone one explain soft edges so that I might get some hints and what I need to find in my 3d application? Maybe if I understand how soft edges works, I can better ask google related to my 3d app and how this technique is calles in cinema 4d. Defenetly nothing in the help files about soft edges. EDIT: I mean I do understand the word soft edges. But not how it could be done in c4d. I also ask my self why soft edges would not increase polys? The word soft edges would tell me "better and round edges = more polys". So how is soft edges working in your application? Is it something like a fake-method or so?

Inea Wemyss wrote: Please note, it's the end result that matters, how you get there is not important, each person has his or her own work flow. That is so true. Everyone use differend ways to work things out. But it is still interesting to see how other peoples do it. Sometimes there are some mighty hints I or we can use or learn from. Thats what I like on SL Community. Here are a lot of peoples who share teachnics and know how. I noticed it already very early when I startet with SL 4 years ago or so. I think I learned much about creating stuff just because I uses SL and because of the peoples who share ideas. Maybe also with lots of tutorials. But all this is fun. This thread here is an great example to learn how you all work. Then we can see if our own way is ok.. or if we maybe try other methods. I agree so much to you. My own way is really to start with high poly. Anyhow I like that. And after reading the thread I did learn its not that hard to reduce polys after that. I must just go through my objects and see where I spend to much polys and then I can think about ideas to reduce them. I like that. But as you said.. everyone has there own workflow.

Yes pretty nice. I must find out how I can subdivide in my tools. I didnt see a tool like this yet.

If you want to upload mesh on the beta grid (if this is the case), you have to make this ip tutorial for the beta grid as well. I dont know if this is your problem.

That was great explained. I did not even notice that I can click in the level of detail section there. Thank you. I will play around with that now to get a little feeling for it. But I also notice this will be a lot of learning about the import and a lot error and try. I see its not enough to know how to create some simple or intermediate objects in the own 3d applications. I see we must know learn how it goes together with SL. So I am pretty much sure that I am not bored next weeks About my SL business. Last time when we only did build with prims and later sculptys, I did build just things that came in my mind. So overall I didnt specialize in anything. From marketing view it might be crazy as I have differend objects in my shop and the customer can get confused lol. But I do all that for fun and I create things that come into my mind and if there are some incoming L$ I am happy one more time. But you can say I did build mostly club objects like DJ Booth and so. Yea you could say they are also building components at least for clubs. When we talk about mesh I have a text file here were I drop my SL ideas.. So I had this staircase in mind.. some cool club speakers which might be a simple 3d job. DJ cases.. maybe some new DJ bothes but this time with shapes that cant be done with prims (rounded). Well tables and and and. Many ideas. Lets summarize.. I think you are right with interior and building components. But also architecture. So yes.. the interior stuff could be done with lower LODs then. I understand what you mean. It must only be seen in the area where they are placed. Again thanks for the great explaining. I think that might give me tons of new question lol, but thats the reason why we all play SL or? I assume when I played and understand the LOD things.. physics will be the next thing wich might give me little headache EDIT: I played witht the LODS and fixed the problem with the triangles. Thanks so much for that cool info I start to understand it now. I did decide that full details for high, medium and low are great for the staircase as long as I dont make own lods. But I put down the lowest lod as this is far away enough. I still can make HD versions as well.

Ok its working now. Anyhow I had to load my collada files again with my 3d application.. then close appliaction without saving.. now I can upload and see my staircase in SL. It has 34.000 PE I guess that is still much. Inworld the staircase looks good if I am close with my cam. But just three meters away with the cam I wont see objects but instead of that objects change to triangles. Hmm. Any idea?

Glad to hear and that sounds much much better, hope the new PE is good Its a really tough question on how much PE a model should have, the one thing is if you have the prims spare you can enjoy a much higher detailed model. Its something I found myself constantly thinking about when planning my builds and it felt limiting. I decided for my first 'sellable' building to just go with the creative side rather than the technical side and I expect my first luxury home to be around 1000PE which is high, yet when I compare it to other builds ingame right now I would say it will be much much better than those 2000+PE luxury mansions you see. I may be wrong but I think the first thing a customer thinks about is the visual appeal, if they like it they will then start examining all the other aspects like PE and footprint ect and in some cases be willing to sacrifice those over looks. If you are intending to sell it, you could always create 2 versions, a HD version and a low poly version, its actually quite easy to do that once you have created your LODs, just use the medium LOD as the high LOD and create a simple low LOD to put into the missing LOD slot while using a default 2tri for the lowest one. About the PE: I still could not find out the PE of the object. When I try to import the collada, my mesh viewer will show no reaction, and I dont know whats wrong. The mesh viewer will just break when I import an when the import preview window is there. A simple cube export will work. But not my staircase. The viewer will crash then. I assume that my railings are the problem as they are made out of one circuit spline and one helix spline.. and those are under a Sweep-NURBS Object. I did read anywhere that NURBS is not supported for import. To check that out I will delete just the railings and make a test import without railings. If they are the problem than Im not sure what kind of other methods I have with cinema 4d to create those railings. A sweep nurbs with splines was at least the handy and in my opinion best solution (at least in workflow). Maybe I can use a simple cylinder as well and just bend it.. but im yet not aware if I have a tool in c4d which can make it like I want. But maybe I can also convert this finished NURBS railing to another object or so. I must try that out. About your last idea.. Yea I will probably sell this and that when I start to be aware of all the import basics and when I start to feel good with all that. I pretty much like the idea to sell low poly and HD versions. I propably would just put both in one package so that the customer can decide what to use. Thats at least how I would like it if I go on virtual shopping tour

York Jessop wrote: I noticed your railings are probably taking up the majority of your poly count, it is possible to create a cylinderical appearance with a radius of 6 segments, just use soft edges. You could probably drop the poly count by 60% by doing that whilst keeping an acceptable visual look, Also I would consider squaring off the ends of your steps, its not ideal but again you could shave off another 2/3rd from the steps poly count. That was absolotly correct. I did play a bit with my railings now and reduced it from 10 sides to 5 sides which looks still great in my opinion. Not round anymore but a complete other style.. I could also use 6 as you said but I decidd for 5 now. I also did reduce polys on the middle pole and pole details. And look...I just went down from 9125 polys to 1904 polys now. That should be ok for an spiral stair case? I will check out PE now. Anyway I am so much happy that I´ve got so many feedback from you all. Thats why SL makes soooo much fun. Best community ever

Ok I did now get import working. So now I start modelling in regard of all the great feedback here.

Maryanne Solo wrote: Make sure to click the "reply" first in the exact persons post you are responding too. That's the one on the right hand side in their posts window. I got it

Can anybody explain how to quote someone in this forum here? I dont find that, lol..

In sl mesh wiki they wrote that 1 meter in 3ds max is 1 meter in second life if you set your application to the right metrics. I did that with that guide there. So 1 meter should defenetly be 1 meter I guess. I scaled the object with the importer and I still dont have a preview or an rezzed object. Im absolotly confused but I will anyway check out your idea now... if this is true then I would not know how to build objects. I really would like to build in metrics otherwise it would be much error and try. I would like to build in original size and not have to scale things up or down laters when things are imported. But I will check out if you are right... if not.. uhh then I dont know whats wrong with my colladas and so.

Ok I did gather some pretty great ideas here to reduce polys and so. Thank you all very much. I played a bit with differend shapes and how I can optimize them.. Sadly I cant even calculate a PE because import doesnt work for me. Not even a cube.. I dont have a preview of my test objects when I try to import the collada.. but that is another topic I waiting for help in a nother thread here. So.. at the moment it is pretty difficult to check things out in SL beta grid with mesh beta viewer. I must first fix that problem and then I will make some poly reducing and upload to get a bit confy with that PE value. So that I understand it. About the railings.. I made them with splines and a "sweep-nurbs". Yesterday I did read that we cant import objects which made of nurbs.. that is really a problem then. I use nurbs pretty much often. I guess I must then learn other techniques to create differend things.