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Kitsune Shan

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Everything posted by Kitsune Shan

  1. Even tho I am not programmer, I know how things should be and could be done as I have some programming knowledge. But that's doesn't matter. There is a requirement for BOM to be something beyond a gimmick and it's to be able to use the same features than the old assets had. It doesn't matter if they are new or old updated assets. If you can't use alpha masking on the new channels then it's useless before even being released. Your example it's quite ridiculous. Making people update viewer is not an issue anymore. We don't need them to migrate to a whole different viewer. Viewers with fixes are being released often and older viewers gets blocked daily so there is no issue on updating the viewer before BOM it's released and let some months for people to update. You say so as if my suggestion would only benefit me and not the rest of the residents lol. Seriously, read what I suggested. If you think that releasing BOM on it's actual state will be something good for the average user, wait for them to ask why they can't hide the arm and leg channel when wearing alpha mask or why they have to use a tattoo layer to wear skins and clothing. Or why if they worn the new asset "universal tattoo" for the skin, it's hidding all their tattoos behind it. Explain to them that they need to dettach all their make up, tattoos and clothing before applying a skin made with the "universal tattoo" and to wear all of them all over after it. Believe me that I know pretty well how things works and what people need and how. I have been long enough in SL to know all these details. I don't want BOM to be rushed just because few people that aren't even part of the creators' community wantnit now not even knowing the technical aspects behind a rushed version.
  2. There are two ways of doing things always. If updating existing assets could be troublesome (it shouldn't) there is always the possibility of adding new ones. But then, I am not programmer so there is absolutely no reason for me to know something like that. This is a 16 years old game developed by a professional company, not an indie game. I am not either being paid to do so, LL employes are. In fact, I was giving away around 150 to 250$ monthly just on cashout, let's not talk about money conversion and other fees. And that was when it was still 2.5%, now it's double that amount. I guess I have all the rights to at least point when something isn't right. Besides all that, I understand the problems that could happen from all this but the solution it's even simpler than that. Update all viewers before BOM it's released to make them compatible with the new assets. After a couple of months with new viewers capable of handling the new assets, block the older ones and release BOM. The viewers will be ready for the new type of asset and no one would crash because they had a fix for the new type of asset since a couple of months. Or, the complex way, fix it properly so it doesn't crash on older viewers. That a new feature crashes a new viewer is not something that big deal. Obviously you wont release BOM and make everyone update on the same day. Instead, relesae updated viewers and let them work together among older viewers untill everyone have updated then release BOM. I don't mind waiting some months as long as we don't get anything half done.
  3. I think it's a must have feature. There is literally no sense on creating BOM and not adding the alpha masking capabilities to all extra channels considering that they are meant to be used for avatars. Even more when we talk about the arm and leg channels that have been made and named specifically for avatars. If we use those channels for an avatar, we wouldn't be able to wear clothing there as we can't hide these parts. BOM already works fine with the already existing alpha masking items, we just need either get the alpha masking item extended to use the new channels or a new asset that could be just like the Universal Tattoo just for alphas and probably called Universal Alpha. Also using Universal Tattoo it's also pretty confusing for most users. We have an Universal Tatttoo but not an Universal Skin which leaves the base layers of the extra channels unused. I know that they can stack one on top of each other but will still be confusing that you can wear the base layer wearing a skin for the common channels yet for the new ones you can't wear a skin but a tattoo layer.... All we needed it's to add extra slots to the already existing assets inlcuding skin and clothing but I guess, like always, we need to get the things weirdly implemented to make sure that everything it's more complicated for users than necessary. To me, the inclusion of the extra channels to the existing assets (or creating new assets with them) seemed like the option that made more sense. Using a new asset for only one purpose leaving the rest behind seems like a pretty lazy way of executing a very simple idea.
  4. I am not sure if bake on mesh it's ready. I have found issues with transparencies and let's not talk about the lack of alpha masking for the new channels including the arm and leg ones which makes them quite useless. Not sure if you have been around enough but, actually, mesh clothing it's the cheapest. Layer clothing was like 500 to 650L$ a single color most of the time being 400 the cheaper. Surely there were cheaper ones just like today there are very cheap mesh ones but the average mesh today its 250L$ and that's half of what it was before mesh. Bake on mesh needs fixes but above all we need alpha mask for the new channels or at least for arm and leg channels so they can be used for avatars. I prefer to get all that sorted than a rushed half done release.
  5. If you mean on tattoos, yes, they kinda work due their nature but they do still have the same differences on the UVs just it's easier to fit a tattoo of certain features over a similar UV than a whole skin. But no, the difference isn't on the scripts but the UVs of each body. They have relatively similar UVs trying to emulate the default ones but they do not get the exact values btween them that's why it's pretty hard for them to use old skins.
  6. I wasn't talking about hands and feet but the fact that others parts of the body does not fit properly. Stretched nipples anyone? Anyway I am not here to discuss about your lack of knowledge on the matter but about missing and broken features on Bake On Mesh. I couldn't care less about the rest of mesh bodies UVs, I simply want Bake On Mesh to work properly as it should and include all required features from the past system skin.
  7. Ok I will explain it easily. Omega is not an UV, it's an unified scripted applier. The purpose of Omega it's to everyone follow the default OLD SL UVS so we would be able to wear all the skins on all the mesh bodies. Omega, with it's script, would send the texture to each body's secret channel since each body applier uses a different channel and way of setting the texture (hence why maitreya applier wont work on belleza body). So that's it, Omega is NOT an updated UV system because they only use the very old default templates for the system avatar. Omega it's only an applier that means to be universal. The problem is that mesh bodies does not completely followed the OLD SL UVS so the purpose of Omega being an unified and universal system was destroyed on the same day that they approved mesh bodies to be Omega compatible when they weren't compatible with the OLD SL UVS at all (as clear example, Bellezas). They didn't modified anything on the UVs neither those templates. They took the old templates and simply added notes for reference. You can even see the creator of those OLD templates that uses the default SL UVs and the year (years before even mesh was an idea) when they were made. I really can't explain better or more simple, sorry, all I can say it's that Omega is not even an UV at all, just a script system of appliers. For example, if mesh bodies were to follow the old SL UVs (or Omega ones since they are literally the same thing), we would be able to wear bake on mesh skins between all those bodies. And it may be that in certain cases may be possible depending on which body but very unlikely.
  8. These are the default avatar UVs. These templates has been around since 2005...
  9. No sweety, Omega is NOT an updated UV standard. Omega was meant to use the default SL layout as an universal script applier so all the mesh bodies could use the same textures as skin. But they feailed pretty hard since these mesh bodies have different UVs meaning that they do not match between them at all. Anyway as I said, Omega is an unified scritp applier, not an UV set. Mesh bodies haven't "Omega UVs" they just use their own UVs and wether you use Omega or each body applier makes no difference on the UVs.
  10. It's perfectly possible to do it and it wouldn't defeat the purpose of having different bodies and heads. You are mixing here UVs with meshes shapes. You can have completely different mesh bodies and still have the same UVs. We all know that it wont happen simply because they wont get the time and effort on creating an alternative bake on mesh version but that does not meant that would be impossible to do.
  11. You can use old system layer as long as the avatars uses the exact same system avatar UVs which in this case, mesh avatars don't. You can get them somewhat "working" but mesh avatars have slightly different UVs so things wont work on all cases. For example, Bellezas doesn't even use the same textures for feet and hands so it's completely impossible. I am making myself a mesh body solely for BOM and getting the exact same SL UVs. But this doesn't either means that everything will work. Skin creators had this crazy idea of placing nipples out of the default position. On the default avatar this wasn't a huge issue because nipples weren't there on the mesh but on a mesh avatar isn't the case so you can end with missplaced nipples if using old skins. This isn't a big issue if you dont mind about it and will always wear something to cover them. System clothes works perfectly fine tho as these just need to fit properly between the seams. I guess on each skin dev kit for each mesh body should be included a skin template with their UVs.
  12. Oh, don't worry about giving out ideas lol. There is not much mistery here about their use. Basically, you can use them for whatever you want, even for a shirt or skirt. Of course, these would be a very stupid move. Why would anyone change texture of their shirt by applying different "skins"? Not to mention that as soon as you wear something that uses the same texture, you would end with the shirt texture on some pants or who knows what. As I see these, their better use it's for the avatar itself. You could just have more than three textures per avatar in case that you wear some kind of special avatar that requires more than the default one or simply to add extra resolution to a common human one. This isn't either a good idea because, eventho you now have slots for left_arm and left_leg (seriously, who though we needed an extra for a leg? we always had these two separated lol), these are just simple names given to them because you can't use these for an arm and a leg at all since they don't support alpha masks textures. Imagine wearing a mesh avatar where you now have a completely asymetrical left arm thanks to bake on mesh new slots but you can't wear shirts or T-shirts because you won't be able to mask any part of it. You can mask your right arm tho lol... So that's it. bake on mesh it's nice, and could be great but only if done correctly and not just half unfinished like some other features we got. If we had a new alpha mask that allows to hide all the new texture slots, we could have great avatars. But as it stands right now, if you use the extra ones, you may need to rely on dividing your mesh body into hundreds of parts to hide through scripts which also means that you may require a quite high poly avatar to be able to create enough alpha masking zones and, on top of that, add laggy scripts for something that wouldn't have be necessary to start.
  13. Yes that's it. But they have also added extra channels but you can't alpha them so they are pretty much useless.
  14. Here is an example of what I exactly mean. So you use Universal layer as background layer for a skin because you want to use left arm for example, just like in the image. Then you use the texture shown in the image that it's a gradient as if it were a tattoo also using Universal (since it's the only way after all). The parts that are between certain degree of transparency and opacity gets transparent just like "gradient tattoo" itself. Areas completely transparent or completely opaque remains opaque in the layer below too just not the in between alpha values it seems. I really don't know why their alphas would mix. If the layer on bottom it's opaque or have certain alpha, it should remain despite of the layer added on top. If you were to wear a layer on top of, for example, a shirt in which you would add some semi-transparent shadows for depth purpose, you would get transparent results on them.
  15. I have been testing with BOM today with the latest viewer and playing with the new kind of assets. I have to say that the way they work it's really confusing. Like, what's the point of having left arm and leg ig you can't alpha mask them?? It's nice to have auxiliar textures that has been added to the tattoo as well but how do you expect people to use these if you can't mask them? We should have also "Universal Alpha Mask" with the same amount of alphas that we have for the Universal one including all extra textures like aux1, 2, 3, etc... I can't believe either that we haven't a way of using normals and specular maps. It's like for very single step we go forward, we do two back. Can't we really get something simply completely implemented for once rather than half unfinished stuff that kinda "works"? I really liked BOM but I don't see much sense on it if we can't use them to wear alphas on the extra textures, neither clothing through layers, etc... I can understand leaving the old stuff intact for compatibility but not without adding their equivalent for BOM new channels. I see no sense on having separated left arm if you can't hide it after wearing a mesh shirt. It simply makes no sense and I am not even sure how you guys even reached the conclusion that doing it in this way was ok at all. I also noticed this super mega weird behavior... if you decide that your avatar needs more than head, upper and lower and go for the usage of left_arm too because maybe for some weird reason you want a separated left_arm after all lol... and then, you use the Universal one as skin instead of tattoo, you get a lot of troubles. The main one is that you are supossed to use as tattoo but the skin wearable type does not contains all the extra slots. So you use Universal as main skin one, but then you wear another Universal one on top of it and this one you really will use as tattoo layer which means that it will contain alpha blending images all over since the background of a tattoo it's usually transparent. NOPE!! you can't!! For some reason the alpha of the tattoo get's also applied to the alpha of the first Universal layer that you wore below (but inversed!!!) which leads you to a skin that gets transparent where the tattoo should be lmao. How is all this not being taken into account before? I hope all this gets sorted before release.
  16. Was it that hard to leave the sliders to change the sun and moon position as they aready were before? It was quite simple to move a slider for up and down and other for left to right rather than messing with a sphere and some weird controls. It takes like 3 seconds to place the sun and moon position where you wanted before, now it takes ages. Not to mention that there isn't a single input controller there to at least being able to copy/paste values or for references. And besides being able to change sun, moon and clouds textures, a couple of extra options and the new daycycle editor, I don't see much improvement or new features. Is not like it's bad, but it's basically the same sky that we have been using for years with just few extra. Would have been really great being able to set the whole sky environment with a cube or spherical map, being able to change stars texture and size, etc.... In overall isn't bad and the new features are nice even if they aren't many after all those years but at least try to bring a better and more user friendly way of moving the sun and moon around. I know this it's more likely get fixed by Firestorm team but still, would be great to have it done by default.
  17. Ohh, all that already working? That's some great news. Thanks for the info
  18. Been out of BOM for several weeks. It has been already confirmed if the werable alphas will work on release? Or it's something they will work "over time"? Last time I tried, they didn't work. Also, it's still being 512px? Will be 1024px on release or also something to work over time?
  19. Give it a try to our appliers now at our main store Cute or Die at Blueberry Media SIM. We have omega as well as maitreya appliers so you don't need to buy the omega HUD if you haven't it. We have everything properly configured and separated into different body parts. We have also enabled the possibility of using bake mesh on the mesh body clothing layers to prevent the shape of nipples and such when wearing system clothing. I hope you like it, it's totally free.
  20. At least isn't so perfect if isn't a HUD. Another option could be to not use on anything that isn't skinned. Yeah, people could still do a plane and skin it to the body but all these options are still better than doing absolutely nothing. I knew this could carry a lot of security flaws and I have already discussed with others creators. But not because something it's possible to do it in other ways means that we just have to make it even easier. For such fact, since there it's copybot viewers, we just should allow everyone to right click and save every single asset? No, right? So this it's the same case. Still, using skins or clothing for a HUD its totally useless and ridiculous and I havent seen a single comment that says otherwise. There is simply not any case where this could be useful. I just hope some security measures before this goes totally live. The damage for skin creators could be huge and I don't see any reasson to release a new feature that, besides not being a real necessity (there are other features that would be more useful for creators and residents), it could do more harm than any benefit. Sure you can now wear your old skins but, in exchange of what? Skin creators are more likely to only create skins for appliers from now on so this feature will be totally useless besides those that stuck in 2009 with their old skins in which case they probably still use standard avatar anyway.
  21. Copy bot? Why lol It's an official feature of SL that everyone can use right now with the beta viewer. And doing a HUD to enable bakes on mesh it's just as easy as making an applier. There is nothing that involves copying anything. This would just enable being able to wear old skins and such on the new mesh avatars. Anyway all mesh avatars will enable this through updates probably once isn't beta. If they can't understand the concept that's something that they have to fix theirself. I may include a note card tho explaining how everything works, you gave me the idea thank you.
  22. Hey Vir, I would like to hear about the security flaws that bakes on mesh are bringing for skin creators. I have several friends with skin stores that are very worried about the subject. The fact that you can simply wear a prim as HUD set full bright and set easily a skin to show on it makes it very easy to screenshot and upload any skin. If you think this may not be something to worry about, please reconsider it. Some of those friends used to make skins for the popular kemono mesh bodies until they realized that people used to take the script out of the body (body it's mod) to drop them on prims that they would wear as HUD and screenshot them. It was very usual for them to see their stolen skins on marketplace and also being used to create new ones after small modifications and being later for sale. They simply stopped doing skins for kemono. Creating skins it's a very valuable and artistic job that deserves to be taken into consideration that's why I suggest that, to add some protection to them, disable the possibility of wearing them as HUD. Just like when you rez the mesh or prim with bake on mesh it gets grey, it should be seen grey on HUDs too. I don't see any real reason why we would want or need to change HUDs textures through system skins or clothing. There are very rare cases where HUD textures needs to be changed and there is no any kind of universal HUD that would benefit from the creation and possibility of sharing HUDs skins grid wide. Consider disabling this useless but dangerous capability before skin makers just turn their back to this project and only release appliers which would basically make bakes on mesh obsolete if won't be ever adopted by creators.
  23. Once your body has been set to system default skins, you change skins just wearing them, or layer clothing, or alphas. You don't need to use any HUD everytime. You would just need to use a HUD to change between regular appliers or system skin but once you are on system skin you just wear them to change. Think on it as a HUD that makes your avatar to act like the SL default one and once it's set you don't need a HUD to set new skins or alphas or clothing (unless they are only appliers of course). You can combine system skins with clothing appliers and tattoos but not system clothing and tattoos with skins appliers because every time you use any of the system features (skin, clothing or tattoo, etc) you will be forced to use a system skin too. And about the mod that you mentioned, bodies are all no mod so far so the only way to apply bake mesh textures to them it's through HUD to change the textures to be the system ones. I guess we will see soon the option included directly on the mesh bodies HUDs itself once bake mesh it's out of beta viewer. So, basically, now it's just there for you to test and once it's live mesh bodies will be updated.
  24. Not sure if I understand you. So you were complaining because you couldn't try bake mesh on your no mod body and I am giving you a solution so you can test and you do not find it helpful? Isn't that what you wanted to do by yourself but couldn't? It doesn't matter if you use belleza, you can turn on omega easily as a far I know you don't even need the omega HUD. Once you tested and are OK with it, you can go back to your regular skin if you want. If what you want is to use a regular skin applier with a system layer tattoo, that's not possible and will never happen unless they add some kind of advanced material system with layering support like for example unreal engine 4. Bakemesh works good for skins just not as useful for clothing layers which doesn't bothers me anyway as I prefer mesh one and once it's set to higher r it will be better. The main issue now it's dividing those people who use skins and those that uses appliers because, as clothing creator, you can't simply include system alpha. Bodies will need to keep their onion layers and annoying alpha groups because not everybody may have a system skin. Luckily some creators still include system skins too with their appliers. The problem is that with those they are highly risking their jobs giving away their skins as it is so easy to steal. Appliers now are the safest way of making skins.
  25. Exactly, mod avatars. You could use with mesh clothing (not layer one) but I don't see a good reason to do so. Keep in mind that to use tattoos, you also need to use the skin. You can't use a skin applier and then a system layer tattoo. From tomorrow (probably) you will be able to find a completely free HUD at Cute or Die store that will let you enable bakes on mesh on maitreya, Catwa and all other omega compatible bodies. We will try to also to update later so you can change other bodies than maitreya without using omega but so far we only got maitreya and Catwa without omega. It will be a good opportunity for all you to test freely without limits. You will be able to go back to your non bake mesh skins just applying any other common applier or saved skin on HUD.
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