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Kitsune Shan

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Posts posted by Kitsune Shan

  1. 19 minutes ago, Cesartje said:

    update: belleza doesnt work with clothes alpha, i tried the blending and the masking - skin and tats apply fine, but alpha layers dont work. I tried exmachina BOM and slink redux, both work fine with the clothes alpha. Maybe something to do with the fact that belezza still have onions? My partner has the Signature bakes on mesh and clothes alpha doesnt apply either. 

    Setting it to alpha masking isn't enough without a proper cutoff value set. 

    Also, this thread should be left about questions regarding BOM or problems at time of using it. I don't think that it's the best place to ask for support to dedicated products. You could always ask on each mesh body group or directly to their creator. Most people here can't assist you at all since most mesh bodies are no mod. 

  2. 1 hour ago, Lucierda Solari said:

    The Maitreya Lara body I bought doesn't have a feature to flatten the vag*** or the nipples.  Only to turn them off but make the areas transparent.  -__-

    Bake on Mesh it's primarily for skins and tattoos more than layers clothing. There is not necesity on using layers for clothes since we can make them out of mesh. Before, this was impossible so the only way was doing layers. But clothing layer does not look that good and it's an extreme minority of the whole actual wardrobe of SL. So, besides some underwear, there is not much use. And even for those you can still wear them mesh anyway. Avatars would need such options but I don't see these being top priority.

  3. 38 minutes ago, Johan Bizet said:

    Hi anyone saw that the BOM Eye Slot is limited to 512x texture size, while the rest is all maxed out to 1k texture slots... is this a bug/something they overlooked or intended ?

    Probably intended. It was limited to 128px before while the rest was 512px so I guess it's now limited to 512px while the rest remains at 1024px. Not good since you could use such slot for whatever thing, but now you can't.

  4. 1 minute ago, Johan Bizet said:

    Hi there. I have a question though. I have a Custom Mesh Avatar, And I use more than 3 Textures to Cover my entire character's body.....So can I make use of New Universal Skin Layer to apply my Characters Textures... And Leave the Actual Skin Layer which only contains Head_UPPER_LOWER Slots Empty?

    You can use Head, Upper and Lower plus the extras that you need for your avatar but only using the Universal Tattoo wearable. You could also just rely on the Universal Aux channels if you wanted to. On the Universal Tattoo, you can leave empty as many slots as you want.

  5. 1 hour ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

    It is true.

    Pre pipeline, aka, raw, images are kept in .png/.tga format.

    They are converted into jpg-2k, now, before being sent to the viewer.

    Before the pipeline upgrade for ogl encoding they were shipped in png/tga.

    The server compresses the multiple images when installed on an object into jpg-2k, which is the first jpg encoding to actually enable alpha.

    There are some advantages on using PNG tho. SL preserves the whole color depth of images and does not compress them. So when you use PNG, you can use 48bits images instead of 32 from TGA. In fact, you can even use 64bits PNG just fine. I have never tried with higher bit depth images because even if they would work we wouldn't see any difference. But the difference between 8bits and 16bits per channel images are hugely noticiable specially on normal maps.

  6. As Blush poined, that would be the easier path. Skin for bodies white a simple color head with the base color and tattoo layer for head skins.
    Another solution would be to bundle head with body skins just like we has been doing for a lot of years before meshes. Yeah skins would be more expensive probably.
    The ideal case would be to be able to wear more than one system skin and be able to leave empty slots on them without having to rely on other kind of system layers like tattoo.

  7. 7 minutes ago, Kai Lyvingstone said:

    I am very very confused by this feature. So like... I have a bunch of old system shirt/jacket layer clothes in my inventory. So I can't just 'wear' them and they automatically go over my avatar now? I thought that's how easy it was gonna be, sigh. It seems so needlessly complicated.

    And you can do that just fine as long as the avatar has support for bake on mesh and properly made UVs.

  8. SL it's old and back then there weren't any real material system so, just like with some other stuff, they named that wrongly or weirdly. But to bring that on a threat knowing that we all are referring to the textures based materials it's silly and only shows lack of basic understanding. 

    • Like 2
  9. Not sure if being serious or just trolling but in my whole life as professional 3D artist neither as game developer I have ever seen using the word material to refer to the physics of an object. You usually use words like "physical", "cloth simulation", "dynamic bones", etc... But never "material". Not on offline renders, not on real time engines like Unity or Unreal, not even on CryEngine. I'd recommend to search for the words material and shader so you will understand the real meaning of them. 

    Also, would be great if we keep the subject to BOM. 

  10. 1 hour ago, Shnurui Troughton said:

    There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what terms belong where.
    Yes, B.O.M. or, Bakes On Mesh, is a nifty tool.

    The PRIMARY PURPOSE is for people with Mesh bodies to use OLD CLOTHING AND SKINS.  That stuff you have floating around in your inventory that may or may not have cost you actual money.

    Skins are a set of 3-4 textures, if you include the hair.

    Clothing is also 1-4 textures, if you're just using the regular old stuff.

    Textures are detailed images giving an area a look, such as clothing, tattoos and cosmetics.

    Materials are also known as *Faces, or *Zones.  They define where the above textures mete up with.

    Yes, it would be nice if the uploader was fixed so that creators could label and forget in their tool of choice, (lower_body, upper_body, etc.) and have the B.O.M. auto assign the default basic beta version textures to the right zones*.
    Yes, it would be extremely wonderful if there were some sort of Data Core that could be placed on an animesh to allow B.O.M. to work on single layer animesh items.

    But as someone noted, the heads haven't been replaced or even really taken a vacation to get fresh eyes on the problem.

    They're doing great work, don't need to harsh their groove.

    That's not the right definition of materials, what you refer to it's faces or ID's/groups.
    Materials are the group of different "textures" to get certain effects. In SL case, we refer to materials to the system composed of more than plain diffuse texture adding also normal and specular maps channels among their different use of their different alpha channels.

    And the primary purpose is not to use old skins and clothing since you would barely fit them over actual mesh body UVs but it's still a possibility to certain degree on certain bodies I guess. The main purpose is to stop using different layers of mesh bodies to increase performance and visual quality.

    • Haha 2
  11. 1 hour ago, OptimoMaximo said:

    Because instead of reviving an old, long dead feature, LL coukd have just put all this time and efforts in a revised and extended material system that woukd allow to layer full materials on ALL types of content, not just avatars. With all the bells and whistles that come with a brand new system, instead of all the caveats / problems arising from trying to adapt something old that can't handle materials out of the box. If this projecy would have taken 1/6 of the time it took, maybe it might have been something  worth that time and related effort, but at this level of issues still there on release without materials and partially working alphas, and the time taken, it's a failure. 

    Well, can't deny that you have a really good point. But it's SL, everything it's always half implemented. That doesn't makes BOM a failure still. 

    By the time that we got materials it was already outdated. I don't see a better system anytime soon, SL development it's not just slow but it also lacks useful features for creators that could help grow the market and the user base. It has been always like that and not sure who it's responsible of that but as long as that person or persons are still in the team, we won't see any changes there. I myself have requested very useful features that would help increase performance and quality but instead we may get another feature that no one asked for except the typical guy that goes to every single meeting even tho it doesn't represents the majority of SL users neither is a knowledgeable creator. But hey, we will be able to save WL to inventory. It may take two years of development but I am sure that a lot of people that left SL and even new ones may come and stay since it's a really requested feature. Oh wait... 

  12. 21 minutes ago, HunniHope said:


    @Vir Linden If this is expected for Universals to be above the Tattoo layer then perhaps the description in the  knowledgebase should be verified as the information given there is contradicting what you are saying here I quote:  "In layering order, universal wearables go between the tattoo and body layers.



    And it goes between the tattoo and the body layers. He didn't said skin so as I understood, he always meant to say body layers as clothing layers.


  13. 54 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

    well, then, surely, if you use one of the default slots with a different uv, the system will "bake" the skin layer at bottom which uses the default uv...  So, it will look all mangled until you wear a universal to point to a texture that uses the actual uv's of your mesh. I think that would be very confusing, that is why I would rather use auxiliaries for anything that does not have the standard uv's.


    That's not how it works neither how it worked always. Textures are just textures, square ones. What bake on mesh does or even the old system did, it was simply to stack images one on top of the other and render as a new image just like you would in Photoshop using layers and saving as a new flat image. No UVs are or has been involved ever. What you suggest isn't even possible at all since UVs aren't on textures but meshes. 

    • Like 1
  14. 33 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

    Could you explain, please ?
    I only see three. all the others are bound to the default uv's, aren't they ?
    Five would suit me :)

    Edit : Nevermind, I just assumed that left leg and left arm used the default uv

    Thanks :)

    None of them use any UVs at all so even the default older ones can be used for whatever. 

  15. 23 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

    There's already a need to add a new wearable type - the "Universal Alpha", which works like the current alpha but can be used in all channels. Possibly when that wearable type is added, another wearable could be added - a "Universal Skin", which would stack immediately above the legacy skin and have slots for the new channels. 

    I suggested this long ago. I think the ideal case would have been where all old elements have it's "universal" counterparts, at least for skin, alpha and tattoos. Clothing would be good too even if it's a generic single one since it's very unlikely that people will wear more than one layer (it's very unlikely they will use even layer underwear if the mesh clothing fits right but well, still nice to get it). I really don't know why we got BOM without these basic ones because without alphas isn't like you can use any extra channel for a mesh body at all. But I also doubt they will sort that at all. I guess it was more important to make it usable as a HUD and let people easily steal skins than to make it really useful and creator friendly adding the minium required features.

    • Like 1
  16. 3 hours ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

    A complete "new generation" skin would have a "skin" wearable for the original three channels and a "universal" for the left arm and left foot channels. If left arm and foot details are done at the same scale as the main skin there would be a huge amount of wasted space in those channels, so it should be possible to use the extra space for things like nail textures, etc. Ideally, skin and body makers should start talking now about standardizing that sort of layout.

    Sadly that's "not possible" because they had the awesome idea of not including an universal alpha among the universal tattoo so the extra channels that are meant for leg and arm among the rest are pretty much useless for a mesh body. It would have little sense on using them if you will end using alpha cut-off again. That would completely destroy the purpose of bake on mesh. 

    • Like 1
  17. 17 minutes ago, f2004w said:

    Is it possible to apply to non-wearable mesh? If so, it would greatly boost the quality of the textures of the house (baking the shadows over the texture (such as bricks) after it been tiled to the appropriate size.

    You can't do that. 

    You can't add repetitions to one layer but not the other. Even if it were possible, everything would end being baked into a single 1024 texture so it would be the same as tiling on a 3D software and baking. 

  18. 50 minutes ago, Digit Gears said:

    As for the alpha stuff, I can easily guess one issue with that is because the alpha layer itself. I imagine it would probably need a Left Leg/Arm slot of it's own, but would that have the same supposed "crashing old veiwers" problem that prevented them from expanding on the other older skin/texture layer stuff?

    But that's the thing. Alpha masking it's not a simple feature to left behind, it's a key point for BOM. And I can understand the issues of updating old assets (to which I already suggested a solution anyway) but if they could create an Universal Tattoo, they could also create an Universal Alpha for the same matter. The point here it's that we really need these preferibly on all channels but having arm and leg would be enough. Isn't a matter about discussing if it's possible or not because, obviously, it's possible and there is always workarounds and fixes for any issue that could appear neither we should discuss about it's difficulty to implement beccause wether it's hard or easier it may be subjetive and it still doesn't changes the fact that it's necessary to be able to use BOM. Not sure if people realized this already but it wont have any more use beyond avatars. The examples about using it for clothing pieces makes no sense and would make it completely unnecesary.

  19. 12 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

    I created the JIRA for that issue and it's fixed.

    I can't open jiras neither read most of them :D. But that doesn't changes the fact that BOM isn't ready and need some tweaks and improvements regarding assets. 

  20. 2 minutes ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

    So, adding a separate item to handle new channels would be a "total disaster", but forced updates for everyone's viewers is "not an issue any more"? (The screaming about Singularity I mentioned earlier was from this summer.) The vast majority of avatar customization in Second Life involves wearing multiple items, often arcane and inexplicable. If that was a major problem the avatar customization business wouldn't exist at all.

    The new channels are a good thing in general but waiting for the entire project until they're perfect when the existing channels which 16 years of Second Life are build on already work is a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog.


    You may be a conformist that finds everything fine as long as other has to deal with the limits and restrictions of half implemented features. As creator, I want it to work as it's expected on a minimal way and everyone expect those extra channels to work properly and be able to use alpha mask there.

    And no, updating it's not a huge issue. You can't expect a 2 years old viewer to keep working nowday. Is not like there isn't a huge variety of alternatives already. I liked the old interface too but time changes and has been a really long run already. We can't keep looking at the past, SL has to move forward or it will die sooner than expected. So if people has to be force to update knowing some months before it happens, it wont be a big deal. BOM will require updated viewers anyway so your comment it's still being ridiculous. What's the point of having BOM if people will keep using old viewers and seeing your avatar with replacement textures??

    BOM needs fixes and improvements, like it or not but it's a fact and creators are aware of that already. There is even a huge bug regarding transparency and how they are blending the alpha channels of all the stacked textures and you still want this to be released? Patience it's a virtue. Just wait for them to finish this properly then you will be able to go back to your favorite system clothing that you has been saving all these years of no wearing mesh resistence. It will happen eventually, why not to happen properly without issues? :D 

  21. 1 minute ago, Theresa Tennyson said:

    Then why do you apparently not know that you can set up the universal for only those channels that aren't already supported by existing assets so it won't cover anything in those channels?

    I hope that you aren't suggesting that people should wear skin + universal tattoo to use as a single skin layer because that would be a total disaster. If you create an avatar that uses the default channels plus the new leg and arm ones, you should make it simple for all the users to simply wear one and not to explain to them that they need to wear the skin then the rest of of their skin as a separated item using something meant for tattoos. Making SL already more confusing wont help existing users and even less to new ones if they come.


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