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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

And so we get to a discussion of how to respond to things like this. Do you just walk away, or do you put up resistance to the
promulgation of false information
for the benefit of those who are ignorant of the facts but still curious? We're neither saving nor destroying the world here, so I think there's latitude.


 

Maddy, the promulgation of false information snowballs.   The effect becomes accumulative overtime, as false information piles upon further, and further.   This does society a disservice, as ignorance is not bliss, and neither is confusion.  

If, "
We're neither saving nor destroying the world here..."    
then why confront those who counter the false information?   Why not confront those who dispense false information?  

Why try to modify the behavior of other poster's here in the forum?   If there is latitude to be given to the OP...why latitude to those who reply with comments?   

Also, we've touched upon this issue before...in another place and time.   So, I'm curious, as to why it's important to you to try and modify the behavior of other posters.  

Oh, I quite agree, Celestiall, and if you look at my posts in this thread, I think you'll see I've taken different approaches to refute the misinformation. I satirized some of the conspiracy talk by adding a bit silly conspiracy myself. I also confronted the misinformation with facts and questioned support for Lucinda's view.

My interpretation of people's positions in this thread is prolly as flawed as any else's, but I've seen a variety of types of here: insults, civil refutation, satire, sarcasm, agreement and sympathy. I'm not a fan of insults or sarcasm, though I feel the temptation (and succumb) at times.

My statement about latitude is that it extends to both doing and not doing. If you think someone is their own worst enemy, isn't it acceptable to not contribute (who want's to be second best)? If you think the situation is unimportant, don't bother with it? If your button is pushed hard enough for you to respond, respond? If you agree, agree? And if you take acception to any of these things, take exception?

There are people who think that I'm trying to modifiy their behavior when I disagree with it. I won't pretend to understand why they believe I'm so powerful, or that they or others are so weak.

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Phil Deakins wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

And so we get to a discussion of how to respond to things like this. Do you just walk away, or do you put up resistance to the promulgation of false information for the benefit of those who are ignorant of the facts but still curious? We're neither saving nor destroying the world here, so I think there's latitude.

As far as facts can be ascertained, I prefer to correct misinformation, and I'd prefer to be corrected when applicable.

In this case, I was reading this thread and, coincidentally, IMing with a forum user about another thread. By the end of page 3 of this thread, I'd formed my opinion of the OP and stated it in the IM - a single word. When I said in a recent post that I was being kind, I really meant it. I
was
being kind. After page 3, all the stuff about Star Trek and Amelia, moon landings, brown dwarfs, 40 years of studying the Van Allen belt, all the claimed research, etc. were posted. For me, there can only be one conclusion, which is the same one that I drew by the end of page 3.

Again I agree Phil. I was trying (obviously not very effectively) to say that the nature of discussions like this, where the person's position seems intractible (or even indeterminable) and the arguments irrational, I can't blame someone for saying "not worth the effort".

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This is like those bits of cotton used to hold new socks together....

 

...i.e a waste of  a thread....

 

( and why do people insist on copying so much quoted stuff you have to wade through gelationous paragraphs of regurgitated dribble to read one new line... ?????)

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But is it not worth the effort? When in 1997, Marshall Applewhite persuaded 38 people in his Heaven's Gate religious cult to commit suicide in order to board an alien craft claimed to be following Comet Hale-Bopp and reach the 'next level', I think it is incumbent on us all to try and correct blatant misinformation being put out by either individuals or groups. One person is said to have left the group prior to this terrible act because he expected the alien craft to come and get him rather that he commit suicide to get to it and wasn't he lucky. I like to think someone talked a little sense into him too. 

The OP hopped about like a cat on a hot tin roof from one topic to another in this thread until she was nailed on every single one of them by people using rational thinking and scientific facts, not mumbo jumbo.

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Nyll Bergbahn wrote:

But is it not worth the effort? When in 1997, Marshall Applewhite persuaded 38 people in his Heaven's Gate religious cult to commit suicide in order to board an alien craft claimed to be following Comet Hale-Bopp and reach the 'next level', I think it is incumbent on us all to try and correct blatant misinformation being put out by either individuals or groups. One person is said to have left the group prior to this terrible act because he expected the alien craft to come and get him rather that he commit suicide to get to it and wasn't he lucky. I like to think someone talked a little sense into him too. 

The OP hopped about like a cat on a hot tin roof from one topic to another in this thread until she was nailed on every single one of them by people using rational thinking and scientific facts, not mumbo jumbo.

Whether it's worth the effort would be up to the person considering making the effort. Given Lucinda's behavior here, It doesn't bother me if people say it's not worth their effort. I took a few posts to address Wasted Engineer in the old forum before giving up. Had you never responded to Wasted at all, I'd not have thought that a lapse in responsibility on your part.

If you think that my responding to Lucinda's nonsense is worth my effort, I'd ask how you came to that determination.

ETA: Golly I sound grumpy there. What I've been having such a hard time saying, I think, is that deciding a response is not worth the effort can be valid. Not responding can be beneficial. People have seen this thread and thought "Not this again" and moved on. If everyone had said that, the thread would have had only one post in it.

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Nyll Bergbahn wrote:

But is it not worth the effort?

 

I think it is. I know for sure it's worth it to me, but I think you're asking whether doing things like we were doing in this thread is worthy in and of itself. I'm probably closer to your way of thinking than Maddy's. I am no scientist. But I have a very good idea of what science IS. When I see someone making statements of an outlandish nature without offering any sort of evidence or even an explanation and I next see someone else apparently accepting the statement, I feel compelled to speak up.

Might not do anyone any good. I can't believe it does anyone any harm.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:.  
Oh, I quite agree, Celestiall, and if you look at my posts in this thread, I think you'll see I've taken different approaches to refute the misinformation. I satirized some of the conspiracy talk by adding a bit silly conspiracy myself. I also confronted the misinformation with facts and questioned support for Lucinda's view.


Yes, I recognized your satirical style.

 


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

My interpretation of people's positions in this thread is prolly as flawed as any else's, but I've seen a variety of types of here: insults, civil refutation, satire, sarcasm, agreement and sympathy. I'm not a fan of insults or sarcasm, though I feel the temptation (and succumb) at times.


Runs the usual gambit.

 


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

My statement about latitude is that it extends to both doing and not doing. If you think someone is their own worst enemy, isn't it acceptable to not contribute (who want's to be second best)? If you think the situation is unimportant, don't bother with it? If your button is pushed hard enough for you to respond, respond? If you agree, agree? And if you take acception to any of these things, take exception?

 

I'm glad you clarified your position on the latitude.   My interpretation of your comment was that, you were suggesting that one should not try to counter the OP's statements, that seem to be misinformation.

 


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

There are people who think that I'm trying to modifiy their behavior when I disagree with it. I won't pretend to understand why they believe I'm so powerful, or that they or others are so weak.

 

I'm think you're trying to modify behavior when you disagree with it.   The reason I think this is because that is what you're trying to do.   Just as I'm trying to with my comments...and the other people here are also trying to affect behavioral changes.    I don't think for a minute that any of us are just typing out our thoughts for the sake of seeing the words on our computer screens.  We want our words to have an effect upon others.

 

Hmm, I'm not so sure that there are people who think you have power, but there are those who think you try to wield it.   *laughing*

 

I remember back to the former GD forum...I started seeing people with little quotes on their profiles...they were quoting you.  Some of the same people still have those quotes on their profiles.  I'd wager that the falling rock comment that is mentioned in this thread can be traced back to you?   I also recall getting contacted inworld by IM...

So, yeah...there's a reason why people think you have....hmm...I'll say....influence.  It's because you do.

Most importantly....it's not by accident.

 

 

 

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

I'm think you're trying to modify behavior when you disagree with it.   The reason I think this is because that
is
what you're trying to do.   Just as I'm trying to with my comments...and the other people here are also trying to affect behavioral changes.    I don't think for a minute that any of us are just typing out our thoughts for the sake of seeing the words on our computer screens.  We want our words to have an effect upon others.


I won't argue with your contention that disagreement desires modification. But if we're all doing it, what makes me different?

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

I'm think you're trying to modify behavior when you disagree with it.   The reason I think this is because that
is
what you're trying to do.   Just as I'm trying to with my comments...and the other people here are also trying to affect behavioral changes.    I don't think for a minute that any of us are just typing out our thoughts for the sake of seeing the words on our computer screens.  We want our words to have an effect upon others.


I won't argue with your contention that disagreement desires modification. But if we're all doing it, what makes me different?

I'm so glad you asked that!  : )

My observation is that what makes you different from all the other would-be-behavioral-modifiers is depth, breadth, and consistency.  Kind of like the difference between an amateur and a professional. 

As your results become visually apparent to even the casual observer, people react.   A successful politician gets noticed, and not always by his fan-club. 

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PudgyPaddy wrote:
Posts disappear very quickly, why is that?  Are people ARing for asking valid questions? 


 

I suspect in this case the post was not AR' d, but retracted after it was written and substituted by an altered version.

Perhaps Celestiall can tell you why.

ETA : I know Celestiall already answered, but posts seem to keep vanishing ... :robotindifferent:

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It was me who called it BS on your first post. It still is.

Me = astronomer.

you = I have no idea.

It was Equinox a few days ago. Happens every year. Twice. I did point this out to you last time as well. I believe this is what you mean when you say that the Earth is crossing the solar plane.

You are fully entitled to believe what you want Lucinda but you are wrong.

As for CIA psyops? Wuh? I'm not even Murrikan.

 

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

Here is a complete list of times that the end of the world has been predicted.

We just missed one in December and it looks like the world wont end again until this December so no need to clear your calendar until then.

the world did end on all them days. is just that the moles made a new one exactly the same while you was logged out. is true

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Lucinda Bulloch wrote:

LOL, I knew it would not last long, just showing how destructive I can be, wont waste my time on the minnows here. I will go for the throats of those on top, I find the genghis khan way the best, kill them all then you are bound to get the right one,

genghis khan said: open the gate and i will treat you well. if i have to break it down then i will kill you all

basically he was saying: agree with me or you deadmeat. dont think thats actual what you meant really

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Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

My observation is that what makes you different from all the other would-be-behavioral-modifiers is depth, breadth, and consistency.  Kind of like the difference between an amateur and a professional. 

As your results become visually apparent to even the casual observer, people react.   A successful politician gets noticed, and not always by his fan-club. 

Celestiall, where on Earth are you going with this? Are we back to the Cult here? You DO realize that people who recognize qualities they admire and opinions they share in other people tend to want to get to know said people, yes? As an example, there is a certain former forumite who I happen to think is one of the most disgusting excuses for a human being it has ever been my misfortune to run across. Maddy's opinion is similar, but she didn't form that opinion because of anything I said, nor vice versa. I detested this person LONG before I'd ever even commented on one of Maddy's posts, let alone actually had a conversation with her.

Yes, Maddy is frequently quoted. That's because she says things that are quotable.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

My observation is that what makes you different from all the other would-be-behavioral-modifiers is depth, breadth, and consistency.  Kind of like the difference between an amateur and a professional. 

As your results become visually apparent to even the casual observer, people react.   A successful politician gets noticed, and not always by his fan-club. 

Celestiall, where on Earth are you going with this? Are we back to the Cult here? You DO realize that people who recognize qualities they admire and opinions they share in other people tend to want to get to know said people, yes? As an example, there is a certain former forumite who I happen to think is one of the most disgusting excuses for a human being it has ever been my misfortune to run across. Maddy's opinion is similar, but she didn't form that opinion because of anything I said, nor vice versa. I detested this person LONG before I'd ever even commented on one of Maddy's posts, let alone actually had a conversation with her.

Yes, Maddy is frequently quoted. That's because she says things that are quotable.

Dillon, your characterization of said former forumite is an exaggeration of what I believe is your own opinion as expressed to me, and not quite representative of my ever changing opinion of the individual. If you are a bit riled because Celestiall seems to be taking a whack at me, I appreciate that. The same happens to me when I see friends taking heat.

I have, as you know, wondered why I'm seen as a master manipulator by some. So, when Celestiall brought it up, I asked her why. I see her explanation as being one of degree, not nefarious intent (though I love being "nefarious" ;-). It's true that we all manipulate and I've always operated as if that was "sea level" and of no particular concern. That's why I asked what makes me different. Her reply is actually consistent with that I've heard in RL, where I've (more than once) been called intimidating.

Frankly, I don't like being called "intimidating" because it (to me) suggests a will to cause harm to an individual. I get angry like everyone else, but I don't go through life with a chip on my shoulder wishing harm on people. If I wish to cause harm, it is to ideas or behaviors I perceive as harmful. In my business, that means passionately applying the full force of my knowledge and intuition to do the right thing. If that is intimidating, I think I'll have to live with it. Fortunately, people who have found me intimidating at first generally (not always) come to see that I'm actually fun to work with.

And so maybe I appear the same way here, where I call a spade a spade and, on hopefully rare occasions, am made aware that it's actually really a photograph of a spade, or worse yet, a box of Girl Scout Thin Mints.

Care for a cookie? Don't mind the dirt, just brush it off and enjoy.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

My observation is that what makes you different from all the other would-be-behavioral-modifiers is depth, breadth, and consistency.  Kind of like the difference between an amateur and a professional. 

As your results become visually apparent to even the casual observer, people react.   A successful politician gets noticed, and not always by his fan-club. 

Celestiall, where on Earth are you going with this? Are we back to the Cult here? You DO realize that people who recognize qualities they admire and opinions they share in other people tend to want to get to know said people, yes? As an example, there is a certain former forumite who I happen to think is one of the most disgusting excuses for a human being it has ever been my misfortune to run across. Maddy's opinion is similar, but she didn't form that opinion because of anything I said, nor vice versa. I detested this person LONG before I'd ever even commented on one of Maddy's posts, let alone actually had a conversation with her.

Yes, Maddy is frequently quoted. That's because she says things that are quotable.

I think my words and explanation were pretty clear Dillion.   I have no idea what you mean by "Cult".    

Nor, is my commentary about other hypothetical people.  My comment was directed to M, as  it looked to me like she was trying to influence certain posters in this thread.  I found that odd, as the posters are ones that I'm pretty sure she actually agreed with...as far as the topic.  So, her efforts were directed at behavior modification of people who were expressing themselves in a certain manner.  I asked "why?".   I wanted to know.   M, has provided me with explanations and more.   ; )

The first contact I ever had with M, was when she sent me an IM inworld, in such an effort.  Back on old GD, around that same time I noticed people quoting her.  It was no accident.   She makes an effort, and it works.  That simple.   This is not some secret bit of information I'm sharing.   Nor, it is something you need to get riled over.  It's just the facts. 

 

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It's not strange, it's commonplace.  Question Madelaine and your post gets ARed.  Some will join to defend Madelaine while some sit back until it gets too hot for her.  Imho, Dillon's remarks were more inflammatory and attacking than what Celestiall was ARed, but I'm not a moderator.  I read many posts in this thread that I consider more inflammatory than what Celestiall posted. They are intact.   

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You address me in your reply, I will respond.  I'm not at all questioning the moderators.  I'm learning how things work on the forum.  I see patterns that I will use to keep myself from being moderated to death by certain posters. 

 

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