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Super String

Direct Delivery Second Life - payment system broken

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If only LL had addressed this at the same time https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4508 then there wouldn't be this negative feeling towards items being delivered with no payment.

I only picked up the thread a couple of pages back but in case it got lost, the JIRA for this is https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4441 for anyone that missed it. 

I raised it to showstopper too since it should be easy to fix, isn't feasible for all merchants to implement the work around and failure to reconcile financial transactions is indeed a showstopping event as far as i'm concerned.

 

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I removed the spurious superscript ²  from a listing and it all went through. *Seems* to be sorted. Updating all listings now, wait and see what happens and if the backlog of payments comes through. Pat on the back for figuring this one out.

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Yes when I read about this I thought of making a thread called CTL: LISTEN TO SASSY!

Thanks Gavin :-)

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OMG!!! ALL my procudts have unicode characters...

Maybe this is the reason???  

 

I'll try to change the list names later...

 

Lindens can't even find this caused problems?? This is ridiculous!  They never warn of not using unicode in DD...(because they don't know and don't care...)

Finally it's not Lindens solving the problem, but Gavin...

Linden Lab should pay you Gavin, great detective, Gavin Holmes!

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Thank you, Gavin.  I guess that applies to the Direct Delivery glitch only.

The other web sites I plug listings into will not let you proceed if you are using a character that is not allowed or will cause glitch.  I guess that costs extra at the Shopping Site Mart.

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Hopefully they will get this character set problem fixed ASAP so that others who don't realize this is a problem will not have to manually change all their listings - if they do it fast enough then maybe you won't have to change all yours.

It is most definitely the problem, I tested several items with various Unicode characters last night and they are all still waiting to be paid to merchant, stuck in "Being Delivered," yet have been delivered and buyer has paid. When the item delivers, I have noticed that the viewer removes the characters so it is essentially a differently named product.

Instead of paying some attention to your special case that you filed a JIRA for, unfortunately the Lindens lumped it in with other issues of non payment, when it was not at all the same.   :(

And yes, thanks to Gavin for noticing what the real issue was in this case!

 

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Josh, I've also been confused these days.

To my knowledge the upgrade should always at least brings something better or more valuable. I've never hesitated to update to newer os, applications, browsers, 3ds max, maya, photshop, zbrush, silo, modo, Cinema4d...or whatever...none of these products have ever dared to have released a premature system like this--full of flaws, bringing distress to users , and not providing solutions to it.

I think I just ignored that LL is just not Google, Autodesk, or Adobe, I should not have trusted this update would really make consequent "upgrade" directly and responsibly. 

 

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Gavin Hird wrote:

I have found that all the transactions that have failed for me has the characters ö | or – (em dash) in the listing name.

Looks like a sensitivity to charachter set (ASCII only) might have been introduced. Do you guys see the same pattern in your nondeliveries?

 

 

Wow.  Gavin...you win the SL Detective Badge Of The Universe!  I hope someone has updated the Jira with this information so this problem can be fixed!  Dude...seriously...I'm proud of ya! :smileyvery-happy:

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totally agree with Marcus,  really really thank you Gavin!!

I tired to change the list names and the problem just gone, abviously the problem is caused by DD doesn't support unicode.

Ridiculous!!!

Let's start a new JIRA. I'll do it.

 

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thank you all guys!

Unbelievable this disaster is solved not by Lindens, but by Gavin's smartness and all you merchants' collaboration...

 

Lindens, where are you? 

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Super String wrote:

totally agree with Marcus,  really really thank you Gavin!!

I tired to change the list names and the problem just gone, abviously the problem is caused by
DD doesn't support unicode
.

Ridiculous!!!

Let's star a new JIRA. I'll do it.

 

Super...I'm REALLY REALLY happy you can get the problem resolved now!  When  you change the item name, does it pay out for the ones that were stuck?

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Super String wrote:

:matte-motes-not-even:no....previous purchases are still stuck, no payments, that's a problem!!

Well, hopefully, once the commerce team sees this information they can release the payments to you.  

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Apparently the "payment processor" (the bit of code that makes sure the merchant gets paid) that was responsible for handling Magic Box purchases was designed to handle Unicode characters. But apparently the one that handles payments for DD items doesn't; it just barfs and hangs. (or dies with an error code)

I can pretty well guarantee that LL is taking this serious though, but from what I can tell, they're up to their necks in trying to make the Marketplace work faster ... so customers aren't scared away from making any purchase at all.

When you filed your support ticket, did you include the Order Numbers in the ticket? When I had my issues with not getting paid, I made sure to put the order numbers in the ticket and that let them track down each order rapidly. I realize you've got a lot of them now, but still it would be best to get that list ready. The faster they can find and push through the orders that failed, the faster you'll get paid.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

I can pretty well guarantee that LL is taking this serious though, but from what I can tell, they're up to their necks in trying to make the Marketplace work faster ... so customers aren't scared away from making any purchase at all.

 

A task that would probably be rapidly completed by removing the stupid bear from the marketplace front page and replacing it with a message that informs shoppers the bear will be released and available for a month starting from X date, and advising merchants that the there is a new (extended) phase-in/phase-out period of X time, and recommending that due to processing delays, merchants not hurry to switch over.

That problem fixed, then they could address themselves to fixing the bugs before DD is compulsory, rather than spending between now and then trying to undo the performance damage they pretty much single handedly caused by doing everything in their power to manufacture as much urgency and rush on the part of merchants, and as much extra shopping activity (aka free-bear hunting) as they could, even though anyone with any sense in their head would not need to have been warned about this outcome.

 

I'm an IT lay-person, but I could predict that unless they were willing to bring extra resources on board to cope, that marketplace performance would take a hit when DD rolled out, assuming no one offered a "limited time only" free bear, or informed people that for some products they had roughly a month to transition and roughly two months to get all stock swapped over.  I'd never have calculated assuming those two later conditions because no one could reasonably predict such utterly unreasonable behaviour.

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Anaiya Arnold wrote:


Darrius Gothly wrote:

 

I can pretty well guarantee that LL is taking this serious though, but from what I can tell, they're up to their necks in trying to make the Marketplace work faster ... so customers aren't scared away from making any purchase at all.

 

A task that would probably be rapidly completed by removing the stupid bear from the marketplace front page and replacing it with a message that informs shoppers the bear will be released and available for a month starting from X date, and advising merchants that the there is a new (extended) phase-in/phase-out period of X time, and recommending that due to processing delays, merchants not hurry to switch over.

That problem fixed, then they could address themselves to fixing the bugs before DD is compulsory, rather than spending between now and then trying to undo the performance damage they pretty much single handedly caused by doing everything in their power to manufacture as much urgency and rush on the part of merchants, and as much extra shopping activity (aka free-bear hunting) as they could, even though anyone with any sense in their head would not need to have been warned about this outcome.

 

I'm an IT lay-person, but I could predict that unless they were willing to bring extra resources on board to cope, that marketplace performance would take a hit when DD rolled out, assuming no one offered a "limited time only" free bear, or informed people that for some products they had roughly a month to transition and roughly two months to get all stock swapped over.  I'd never have calculated assuming those two later conditions because no one could reasonably predict such utterly unreasonable behaviour.

Exactly.  They F'd up the system, they need to remove the Taunting Bear asap - it was a mistake unless the freakin' system ran.  Arrogance again.  If they were confident it was going to work, then by all means shove a freakin' taunting bear in our face, for us to celebrate with! 

But if it doesn't work, then pull that mother off, and inform all of our customers why it is not working, so that we have at least a bit of help in the very least.  Customers do not know - they think their computers are all messed up and trying to revamp their computers!

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One day you will all learn, Everything LL touch turns to crap. Don't be so quick to adopt new technology until its proven itself to be reliable.  Street was fine before they took over. Then we get Marketplace, new look, nobody liked it,... Crap. What was wrong with magic box, it worked,. If it aint broke, no need to fix it. And now this farce. How much sales and revenue have we all lost because of LL's **bleep** up. I guess there's no point in looking for compensation. Hey LL how about adding a few more servers to handle the additional load, that would be too easy. So how much longer do we have to endure these page timeouts and slow response. I just hope there are a few customers left when and if they eventually manage to fix it. Well done LL, Another monumental disaster.

 

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I early on  suspected there was a character set issue as soon as I started to make test deliveries on DD products as my brand name has been Boötes, and the delivered product had the name truncated after Bo. So I started to change the listing names both to eliminate the | character and changed Boötes to Bootes to make the delivered product in the received items folder look all right. 

It only occured to me this morning when listing names with em-dashes in them still failed, that the charcter set was the root problem of products stalling in the Being deliverd state. 

It is, however, a serious architectual flaw in the design of the DD system, if listed products on the marketplace cannot be localized because the product deliverd to the received items folder must have a name restricted to the ASCII character set. This restriction is due to the fact that the Inventory does not support names with non ASCII characters.  HINT: Try creatre a notecard for instance with Boötes in it's name – Impossible. 

To me it looks like the chosen solution for DD simply no longer supports localization of listing names. 

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I agree that a lot of the load is a direct result of them "putting fire to our butts" with the short deadlines. But customers are also seeing the slow down, and even though Merchants are reporting complete conversions of even large inventories in a day or two, folks are still pounding on it like mad.

I think they've got issues deeper than just undue load from the Merchants, and I'm pretty sure that even if they did now come out and say "We've decided to extend the deadline another six months" most folks would respond with "Yeah, right" and go right on pounding on the Marketplace, fearful that was just BS and they were gonna get cut off any moment now.

Yes, the deadline announcement was poor planning. But I recall them turning off XStreet way too soon as well, and I'm pretty sure the impetus to turn it off did not come from inside the Commerce Dev Team. I'm betting it didn't come from inside this time either. I suspect someone above them said "We MUST get those magic boxes shut off in two months .. or else!"

We'll see. If they make the determination that the load is just too much, they'll say so. But right now, having it under stress loads, gives them the advantage of being able to see where and how it is dragging down. Trying to optimize under a light load is never easy .. nor correct.

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>I can pretty well guarantee that LL is taking this serious though,

If they even knew how to take it seriously, they would have annouced someone getting fired by now. 

When you think about how much total business will ultimately be lost due to the DD deployment, would it not have been worth maybe twice as much as they've been paying their weak link in order to hire someone who could actually have done the job?

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>Yes, the deadline announcement was poor planning.

It's worse than that. It's "coercive" (to put it lightly), in that it threatens to destroy listing enhancement value for people who will not commit to a system that may choose not to pay them for the advertised items, and for which LL already shows they may choose not to compensate the wronged party.

I think it's fair to ask WTF they're thinking, anyway, by giving us any deadline to convert to DD when they have clearly given themselves no deadline for getting it to work in a way that does not steal from merchants. 

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Yes, the deadline announcement was poor planning. .


 

Wasn't it just, although I think they'd have had a large number of folk trying to convert to DD right away without a deadline to be fair, the deadline should have waited until people were well into their conversions.

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

 I suspect someone above them said "We MUST get those magic boxes shut off in two months .. or else!"

Or else... what?

Normally a project to do something like this would be active with a rushed timescale because it would cost too much in either infrastructure or support to continue or would be losing a company too much money.

Having Magic Boxes alongside DD would be unlikely to be impacting on any of these reasons to qualify as an urgent reason to remove them.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not in favour of them either way, I don't really care but the impact and cost of rushing this has had a far worse impact than letting them stick around for say 6 months longer.  I just can't see what the risk or cost to the business is for extending the migration time for magic boxes.

 

 

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> I suspect someone above them said "We MUST get those magic boxes shut off in two months .. or else!"

>Or else... what?

"OR ELSE: people will continue to note that the boxes at least work no worse than fully deployed DD, thus making the whole project a huge waste of LL's investment into my personal pet project!"

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