Opt in for Group Liability?

[Chelsea Malibu]

Last night I logged into an account that I have not used in a while and was surprised to see I had a negative balance.  How would this happen?  So, I looked at my transaction record and saw that someone from some group I don't remember joining was charging me their group liability.

What frustrates me is that any group owner can turn this or off at their will without anyone in the group giving permission to do so.  This is a feature that has to be stopped.  Im my case, a few lindens is not a big deal however, years back when I closed down my sims, it took me a year to get them to shut off my group liabilities and that wasn't until I kicked everyone out of the group and closed it.

Land Listing should be charged to the person or group who owns the land, that I agree with as there really is no other way but no one should be made liable for this without their knowledge.

Should I do a Jira on this and does anyone else agree?

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I would support a JIRA that made this option off by default rather than on, but not for removing it entirely, as there are legitimate uses for it sometimes. Even so, this won't prevent a group owner from turning it on.  While I generally agree that the land owner should pay for listings, sometimes it should be a group responsibility if the members of the group have a direct benefit from the listing.  Example: a group that is used

When I join a new group the first thing I do is check on that since I too have been 'burned' by it in the past.  If it is 'on' in the role i've been assigned to and I don't agree that I should have to pay, I ask the group owner to remove it, as most of the time its just an oversite.  However if they don't, I leave the group. 

[Seven Overdrive]

It usually is not much money until you have a negative balance because of it.  I would support a JIRA to fix this too.

 

ETA: Perhaps group liability should only be limited to Group Owners and Officers.  Or figure out a way to let individual members opt out per group.

[Chelsea Malibu]

I agree to with both of you as there is a need for this but it needs disclosure.  You should either be told you will have funds removed when you click the join the group just like a paid group join or you should be notified if this is going to take money out and at that point, have the option to opt in.

By default, it should not be allowed to charge you, only after you have agreed to this.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

I agree to with both of you as there is a need for this but it needs disclosure.  You should either be told you will have funds removed when you click the join the group just like a paid group join or you should be notified if this is going to take money out and at that point, have the option to opt in.

By default, it should not be allowed to charge you, only after you have agreed to this.

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Chelsea, I'm not very familiar with groups, but as you've described it, I think a JIRA makes sense. I was aware that group liability exists, but not that it defaults to being applied to all in the group. That's just plain wrong.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Chelsea Malibu wrote:

I agree to with both of you as there is a need for this but it needs disclosure.  You should either be told you will have funds removed when you click the join the group just like a paid group join or you should be notified if this is going to take money out and at that point, have the option to opt in.

By default, it should not be allowed to charge you, only after you have agreed to this.

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Excellent idea! I agree that you should be told right up front and automatically by the system if the role that is offered is going to cost you anything, even if it is only a couple bucks.  Even if its a promotion within a group you already belong to. You should be notified and have an option to refuse the new title.

To a lot of people a couple bucks is no big deal, but It could wipe somone out and put them in a negative balance, as you experienced, especially newbs, which is a fine way to welcome them to SL.

[Monti Messmer]

Jira sounds good.

You cannot change a contract after it is signed, this sounds like.

If you do, post a link here.

Monti

[Ciaran Laval]

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Seven Overdrive wrote:

It usually is not much money until you have a negative balance because of it.  I would support a JIRA to fix this too.

 

ETA: Perhaps group liability should only be limited to Group Owners and Officers.  Or figure out a way to let individual members opt out per group.

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There's a role permission for it, the problem has always been that it's on by default for everyone, plenty of people who create groups don't even realise this and they can also get stung the other way by this, if you sell group land the income gets split between everyone who has that permission set.

[Seven Overdrive]

Right.  I have had to educate many about that when they invite me to their groups.  People simply do not know about it or understand what it even means.  

[Irene Muni]

Many similar JIRAs:

- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-10467

- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-378

- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2076

- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7336

- https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-4604

And the Chelsea JIRA: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4549

[Robert69 Little]

There's a role permission for it, the problem has always been that it's on by default for everyone....and this truly sucks.. as I invited someone to display his artwork at our venue and he had to be in our group to rez.. next thing I know.. he was accusing me of "TAKING" his lindens and even made threats to report me.. as though I had intentionally robbed him of 2L's yes,,, 2L's.. removed me from friends list too... needless to say... I sent him 2L's and returned all of his artwork from our venue.....and here I was only trying to help promote his artwork for free.