Are we entitled to pay damages for a missing item?

[Carl Thibodeaux]

Me and some friends used to own a club on Secondlife. Basically we do alot of stuff and make alot of changes returning objects and what not and putting new things in.. Apparently we returned some dj booth and the owner of it said he didn't get it and we owe him $8000 for it. He claims that LL told him that it got deleted so now we owe him 8k. Since when does LL get in and tell people their items were deleted and other people owe them money? Is he just trying to use us for money or can this action really take place?

[Knowl Paine]

He cannot.

You should consider avoiding contact with that Resident.

If the Resident continues to harass you, or your Friends, use the Mute and ban features.

Then, Report Abuse to document the incident.

 

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Filing-an-abuse-report/ta-p/700065

 

Edit: You are not liable, and you are not obliged to offer any compensation.

If you and your Friends, believe that the Dj lost something, and you want to try to help him, you would be free to do, or to not do that.

"hey, I'm sorry about that", here's x amount of L$.

8k is completely unreasonable.

[Peggy Paperdoll]

Linden Lab wouldn't tell the DJ anything of the sort.  At most, they would tell him to contact you since it's a resident to resident thing (but I doubt they would even do that).  My bet is your DJ friend is trying to stiff you out of $L8000.  Follow Knowle's advice. 

[Hugsy Penguin]

I don't believe that Linden Lab would tell the DJ that you owe him money.

I do know that when you select the option to return an object, a dialog appears (unless you have it set to not show).  On that dialog it says:  "*WARNING* No-transfer deeded objects will be deleted."  If the booth was a no-transfer deeded object and you returned it, then it did get deleted.  It's possible that LL just told him that the object was deleted as a result of being returned.

[Pamela Galli]

But yes you are certainly entitled to pay anyone anything you like.

[Jesica Dragovar]

also just figured I'd let you know the most expensive DJ Booth I've seen on Marketplace is about 5,000 Lindens, and that's coming with lights, video screen dance floor and the works

[Tiffy Vella]

You forgot the extra charge for loss of income and stress. ;P

 

 

[MasoDevotina]

I guess his business runs bad and he is trying to compensate it that way

No, seriously, it can happen that no copy stuff disappears when you return it, and for that reason it may have been a good idea to tell the person to pick her stuff up by herself, otherwise it will be returned by you on their own risk (SL is still eating things sometimes).

LL has noway told him to hold you liable for that, if they have responded they may have told him to talk to you since they don't interfere with resident-to-resident business.

And as others pointed out already, 8'000 Ls is riduculos for a DJ booth.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Since you didn't really say what the specific circumstance was other than vaguely, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say if he had it rezzed there and wasn't supposed to, or you asked him to come get it and he didn't after a reasonable time frame, then you had a right to return it.  If he rezzed it as a favor to you for club decor though, and you just decided to change things and returned it without prior notice or asking him to come get it, then this was rude in my opinion and you are at least partly to blame if it is lost, although some may disagree with me.  LL will not force you to pay for it but sometimes its just the right thing to do. Only the circumstance and your conscience can answer that.   If the latter was the case and this was RL, you could be sued for pushing it out of the club.

Most DJ booths don't cost that much, but it may have if it was custom made or textured with custom textures he had someone make. If you do decide to do anything, you should replace it not give him the money.  He should be able to show you the booth somewhere to prove it was worth that or tell you who created it, if it was custom made, so you can get another one.  The creator may still have a copy and be willing to sell it for a lot less since they wouldn't have to rebuild just send another copy.

[Irene Muni]

Side comment:

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Carl Thibodeaux wrote:

... and we owe him $8000 for it ...

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$8000 or L$8000?

[Dilbert Dilweg]

I am almost willing to bet it is in his lost and found  attached to other objects named not what it should be (coalesced)

Maybe you should help him to mfind it that way by rezzing the items at a sandbox somewhere to find it

[Tiffy Vella]

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

 it is in his lost and found  attached to other objects named not what it should be (coalesced)

---

 

I second this. A very reasonable answer.

[iCade]

I agree with you.

Objects shouldn't be returned just like that when it's a known fact that LL eats items.

If anything, a simple IM ala "Hey, we don't need your DJ booth anymore, could you come pick it up within the next 24 hours?" would have been much more curteous.

[MasoDevotina]

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

I am almost willing to bet it is in his lost and found  attached to other objects named not what it should be (coalesced)

Maybe you should help him to mfind it that way by rezzing the items at a sandbox somewhere to find it

---

Didn't think about that, that may be best the solution

[wrable Amat]

"You forgot the extra charge for loss of income and stress. ;P"      .....lol

 

If I care a lot about my DJ booth I would have pickec it up before I logged out.

[Tari Landar]

Personally, I've had to do something similar. I had to return some property that was left out, when the person didn't come back for it. In my case, I offered ample time, and notice(nearly a week, actually). I don't know the specifics of why the person could not come get the items themselves, but frankly I'd prefer not to judge anyway. Att he end of the week when he still hadn't come back I politely let him know I was returning items, one by one(the safest way to return objects, imo, especially scripted ones) and if anything were no copy/deeded, I would indeed replace them at my own cost.

Did I have to? No, I didn't. In fact I wasn't obligated to let him know, or return the items as gently as I possibly could, either(at least not by any specific rules or TOS in sl). I've had items returned to me too, and get eaten. In fact about a year ago I was offline for an extended period of time due to unforseen circumstances, and the person who returned the items knew that one was deeded and no copy. She actually paid me what it was worth(on her own, she went and found out what it would cost and reimbursed me).That sort of treatment speaks volumes to me. That's not saying anyone who does otherwise is a jerk, or something, lol. I just know how *I* felt, and I prefer to treat folks as I'd like to be treated. I certainly didn't expect her to reimburse me, or anything, but it was a VERY nice gesture. One that won't soon be forgotten, either.

I do however think randomly returning objects with no warning, despite the fact that on your screen you GET a warning specifically mentioning this item could be deleted, isn't the best way to handle things. I understand if it's something you simply have to do, but I see no point in resorting to that right from the word go. A little kindness(and warning) really goes a long way with me. As for the value of the item, you have absolutely no way to tell what it's actually worth. As someone pointed out, it could have been a custom, it could have also been a modded version of something else out there(ie, things added to it, increasing it's value). It really could have cost that person, that amount. I'm never so quick to judge on things like that. Especially since now, that person can't even prove to you what it's value was, since the item is lost.

I don't doubt for a moment that LL told them the item was deleted because of the return, and that they ought to speak with the person who returned it if there is an issue. I know, because I've seen LL give a nice scripted response pretty darn similar to that. That's not LL saying that person owes the other money, it's LL telling the person exactly what happened, why they cannot replace it, and that they don't get involved in resident to resident matters.

Kindness breeds kindness, imo. I prefer to take the high road, even if others wouldn't, or don't. You just never know why someone didn't come get their item(s). Like I said, I prefer not to judge. I know all too well what it's like ot have life happen at a moment's notice(or with none at all, lol) and be unable to deal with other things because of it.

[Ceka Cianci]

 

 

i haven't really read the thread..but what i would do myself is..if i had asked and asked them to come and get it and they didn't and then tried to give me some bill for 8,000 L$

i would say..you know..you had every chance in the world to come get it..

if they were nice about it i may get them one hehehe

 

now if i had just returned without saying anything to them..i would ask if they had looked in their lost and found folder or recent items for that day and see if they had one of those cluster objects..

if it was deleted..then i would ask where they got it and just gifted them one from the creator or store..

 

if they just told me to go ahead and return it and it got deleted..i would probably offer to pay half..or depending on how much it was ..just gift them one..sometimes  it's better to save on the bad blood and just handle the situation where it's resolved without conflict..

 

 

[ConvergentDynamicsReplican]

What a beautifully thought out response. Truly. Worthy of the best of SL.

The 'mute and ban' faction here, however, never was or will be.

Keep your negativity out of SL, please. Be more like this person, and show some kindness.

Thanks for.your post, Tari.

[Treasure Ballinger]

Besides the warning during the return process, that the item could be deleted, there's also a warning that it could go back to the prior owner or the creator.  I was returning a tv once, and in a day or so, the creator, who had sold it to the person I"d returned it to, contacted me and said it had come back to him.  I forget the 'why' of that, but there's a reason for it that's also mentioned in the warning it gives you when you are returning; possible the DJ booth went back to the prior owner or creator.  

[Vladi Hazelnut]

Being it was a dj booth it may have had a stream changer in it, which would require it to be deeded to the land to work. And like said, if you tried to return it, it very well may have been deleted. If you own the sim or know the owner you could possibly have the sim rolled back, then it might be there again.

That being said, I am with everyone else, 8K for a dj booth!!!. I sell stereos with stream changers, and I have dj booth that I have never put up for sale yet. It come with a dj request line, built in tip jar that auto displays your picture and will spam chat for tips and has a built in stream changer with genres and unlimited channels. I would not even dream of asking 8k for it. Maybe if I sold it full perm I might.

I hate to be an ass about it, but if he paid 8K for dj booth and it wasn't copy I don't feel too sorry for him. As a creator I have yet to understand why people sell stuff no copy/mod so often. I mean I understand scripts being no mod, but prims? I just don't get it. I guess its possibly he had it custom built and scripted for him, but if that were the case the person that made it should have a copy. I know if that happened to one of my customers I would replace it.

[Pamela Galli]

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Treasure Ballinger wrote:

Besides the warning during the return process, that the item could be deleted, there's also a warning that it could go back to the prior owner or the creator.  I was returning a tv once, and in a day or so, the creator, who had sold it to the person I"d returned it to, contacted me and said it had come back to him.  I forget the 'why' of that, but there's a reason for it that's also mentioned in the warning it gives you when you are returning; possible the DJ booth went back to the prior owner or creator.  

---

I would be very surprised indeed if anything ever went back to the creator. I can't imagine such a thing. I would like to contact that creator, if you can supply his name.

[Tari Landar]

Personally, I can think of lots of things that would cause something to increase in value, including dj booths. The fact that you don't own one, or sell one, or can't find one in world or on MP in that range(assuming you looked, general you of course), doesn't mean they automatically cannot exist. You may not agree with the price point, but I find that tidbit rather irrelevant to the subject at hand. I can find lots of similar houses, for example, in prices ranging from free to several thousand linden.

I have MANY things I have made over the years, that others have either improved, or had me do it for them, that greatly increased their value, and cost. I'm not so certain anyone else ought to be able to decide that a certain price point is simply not right.(or however else anyone wants to put it).

I find it more than just slightly offputting to see another creator chime in with things like "I make such and such, and there is no way it can/would/will cost that much". What does your own personal perceived value of *your* items have to do with the value another creator(or in this case, the owner of an item) puts on items they own? That just screams arrogance, to me. The whole "I can do it cheaper" mentality, meh, just doesn't come across very well. It's one of the very few things that will specifically keep me away from a creator, no matter how good the product is, or how much I need it.

I'm someone who gives just about everyone benefit of the doubt, but that's just not a very conducive attitude, imo. SL is a pretty big world, and one of the best things about it, well about the general market anyway, is there are things for ALL budgets, all price points, and plenty of room for ALL creators. I just don't find there to be any need to publicly shoot down another's value of something because you don't agree. It's simply in poor taste, imo. Certainly no way to promote your own business, that's for sure, lol.

[Phil Deakins]

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Tari Landar wrote:

Personally, I can think of lots of things that would cause something to increase in value, including dj booths. The fact that you don't own one, or sell one, or can't find one in world or on MP in that range(assuming you looked, general you of course), doesn't mean they automatically cannot exist. You may not agree with the price point, but I find that tidbit rather irrelevant to the subject at hand. I can find lots of similar houses, for example, in prices ranging from free to several thousand linden.

I have MANY things I have made over the years, that others have either improved, or had me do it for them, that greatly increased their value, and cost. I'm not so certain anyone else ought to be able to decide that a certain price point is simply not right.(or however else anyone wants to put it).

I find it more than just slightly offputting to see another creator chime in with things like "I make such and such, and there is no way it can/would/will cost that much". What does your own personal perceived value of *your* items have to do with the value another creator(or in this case, the owner of an item) puts on items they own? That just screams arrogance, to me. The whole "I can do it cheaper" mentality, meh, just doesn't come across very well. It's one of the very few things that will specifically keep me away from a creator, no matter how good the product is, or how much I need it.

I'm someone who gives just about everyone benefit of the doubt, but that's just not a very conducive attitude, imo. SL is a pretty big world, and one of the best things about it, well about the general market anyway, is there are things for ALL budgets, all price points, and plenty of room for ALL creators. I just don't find there to be any need to publicly shoot down another's value of something because you don't agree. It's simply in poor taste, imo.

Certainly no way to promote your own business, that's for sure, lol.

---

I beg to differ. You may be right about everything you wrote but I have to say that the post you wrote about really does promote the person's product - imo. S/he stated quite a few features of his/her DJ booth does and there may be people who read it and who would like such a thing. I think it was a very good 'sales' post

[Dresden Ceriano]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

If the latter was the case and this was RL, you could be sued for pushing it out of the club.

---

Don't make me break out my Judge Judy avatar.

...Dres

[Tari Landar]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Tari Landar wrote:

Personally, I can think of lots of things that would cause something to increase in value, including dj booths. The fact that you don't own one, or sell one, or can't find one in world or on MP in that range(assuming you looked, general you of course), doesn't mean they automatically cannot exist. You may not agree with the price point, but I find that tidbit rather irrelevant to the subject at hand. I can find lots of similar houses, for example, in prices ranging from free to several thousand linden.

I have MANY things I have made over the years, that others have either improved, or had me do it for them, that greatly increased their value, and cost. I'm not so certain anyone else ought to be able to decide that a certain price point is simply not right.(or however else anyone wants to put it).

I find it more than just slightly offputting to see another creator chime in with things like "I make such and such, and there is no way it can/would/will cost that much". What does your own personal perceived value of *your* items have to do with the value another creator(or in this case, the owner of an item) puts on items they own? That just screams arrogance, to me. The whole "I can do it cheaper" mentality, meh, just doesn't come across very well. It's one of the very few things that will specifically keep me away from a creator, no matter how good the product is, or how much I need it.

I'm someone who gives just about everyone benefit of the doubt, but that's just not a very conducive attitude, imo. SL is a pretty big world, and one of the best things about it, well about the general market anyway, is there are things for ALL budgets, all price points, and plenty of room for ALL creators. I just don't find there to be any need to publicly shoot down another's value of something because you don't agree. It's simply in poor taste, imo.

Certainly no way to promote your own business, that's for sure, lol.

---

I beg to differ. You may be right about everything you wrote but I have to say that the post you wrote about really does promote the person's product - imo. S/he stated quite a few features of his/her DJ booth does and there may be people who read it and who would like such a thing. I think it was a very good 'sales' post

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That's actually the main reason that would drive me away from shopping there(or anywhere that did such a thing). Because it was a sales pitch, in a place where they're not permitted. Yeah, makes me a buzzkill, I'm sure, but I'm not a fan of advertising one's wares, when/where not permitted, lol. Add to that factor, the knocking of another's price point, and ya lose me instantly. Won't mean much to that one person, I'm sure, though, lol. Just a peeve of mine, and I know plenty of others who find it just as offputting. Again, not that it would much matter, it IS just a personal opinion after all, and we've all got them.