Madelaine McMasters Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Randall Ahren wrote: @Dres & Celest: People don't live forever. One of the reasons people create is to have something that lives beyond them, regardless of whether it's a painting on a cave wall, a sculpture, or some bit of wisdom, like the teachngs of Christ. The same could be said of entire civilizations. Many have came and went over the centuries and built great monuments and made great discoveries. I think you could apply the same principle to the entire human race. If another race finds us long after humans are all dead and gone, they will see that we reached for the stars and find human footsteps on the moon and our artifacts on Mars, and perhaps Voyager in another solar system carrying some of the best creations of human kind. Moreover, I don't see humans as much different than animals. If humans were eliminated, something would move into the niche currently occupied by humans. So I don't see goodness ending with the human race or requiring humans to appreciate it. Thousands of years from now, archeologists of entirely different species may examine our ruins and appreciate the beauty and glory that was human kind. I can get behind this idea, with caveats. If we're discovered by another civilization that succeeds us on Earth, I'll wonder what they'd think of our possible self extinction (unless we're done in like the dinosaurs, by a chance collision). Might they pronounce us inferior? But, should a race from an extrasolar planet pick up our radio transmissions, or us theirs, I imagine we'll feel wonder and kinship, as we were both searching for others. The Voyagers' Golden Records were created with this hope in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 If the humans do extinguish their own blazing light and their ruins are discovered by a succeeding civilization, that's another way in which good and evil can extend past racial death. The succeeding civilization can analyze what wickedness caused the demise of the humans and use that as a lesson in conducting their own affairs. Even if the humans are done in by an asteroid, it would still provide an instructive lesson to whatever intelligent beings that follow. Wonder and kinship is possible. I'm worried it may go more like Christopher Columbus discovering the Americas and remarking to the native American Indians what a nice hemisphere they have, with the humans in the role of the Native Americans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmettcullen93 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Randall Ahren wrote: @Dres & Celest: People don't live forever. bodies or souls? souls live forever. if god made us in his image then we are made in a soul of god. bodies obviously die but souls have three areas they can be. HEAVEN HELL OR A BODY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 Randall Ahren wrote: If the humans do extinguish their own blazing light and their ruins are discovered by a succeeding civilization, that's another way in which good and evil can extend past racial death. The succeeding civilization can analyze what wickedness caused the demise of the humans and use that as a lesson in conducting their own affairs. Even if the humans are done in by an asteroid, it would still provide an instructive lesson to whatever intelligent beings that follow. Wonder and kinship is possible. I'm worried it may go more like Christopher Columbus discovering the Americas and remarking to the native American Indians what a nice hemisphere they have, with the humans in the role of the Native Americans. It wasn't European humans that did the most damage to native American indian populations. It was li'l bugs. The Voyager spacecraft were meticulously cleaned before launch to ensure we didn't send those li'l bugs as emissaries. The law of unintended consequences may have a workaround for that precaution. I'm more concerned about the unintended consequences of visitations than the intended ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 @Randell: Oh ffs... next time you post something you're not sure about, please add a disclaimer, so that way I won't waste my time writing a reply to a post you end up deleting right before I hit the Post button. :matte-motes-silly: ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Ahren Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Sorry, my post was to Celest and posed the question of what if we were all doing something profound and amazing and unaware of it? If we were part of something much bigger and grander than ourselves? That's the point of the reference to an emergent intelligence. As if our significance corresponded in scale to that of an ant bringing food to her colony or a red blood cell transporting oxygen to where it was needed. Celest's reply simply dismissed emergent intelligence as not relevant. The length of her posts tends to obsufcate, not illuminate truth. My cognitive resources are limited. I don't have the time or patience to deal with line-by-line replies to my posts. I believe that also to be the case for most other posters. She should use less words to say more. Try to emulate Bukowski. Bukowski would probably say something like the human race should live so well that the gods would tremble to take us. If your reply won't fit into your profile or at least a pick, it's too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madelaine McMasters Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Randall Ahren wrote: Sorry, my post was to Celest and posed the question of what if we were all doing something profound and amazing and unaware of it? If we were part of something much bigger and grander than ourselves? That's the point of the reference to an emergent intelligence. As if our significance corresponded in scale to that of an ant bringing food to her colony or a red blood cell transporting oxygen to where it was needed. Celest's reply simply dismissed emergent intelligence as not relevant. The length of her posts tends to obsufcate, not illuminate truth. My cognitive resources are limited. I don't have the time or patience to deal with line-by-line replies to my posts. I believe that also to be the case for most other posters. She should use less words to say more. Try to emulate Bukowski. Bukowski would probably say something like the human race should live so well that the gods would tremble to take us. If your reply won't fit into your profile or at least a pick, it's too long. Science can never disprove that which we are not aware of, as it works with evidence and accepts uncertainty. If I continue your emergent intelligence extrapolation, where do I stop? What if our gods are unaware of each other and the higher purpose of a supergod that is unaware of... well you get the idea. It's turtles all the way up. You use the social behavior of insects as evidence of higher patterns, with the implication that those patterns require plans. But we've found so many patterns, such as that of the Lancet Liver Fluke (read the life cycle section), that the only plan that seems to explain it all is natural selection. Natural selection is a far simpler explanation than some higher power with blueprints larger and more complex than the universe itself. While you may wish to emulate a poet, Celestiall may not wish to emulate anyone at all. She's got a mind that can operate on its own and appears happy to do so (particularly when it disagrees with mine ;-). Your choice of Bukowski as a role model for objective clarity is interesting. Poets, artists and philosophers operate more or less within the confines of our direct senses and evolutionary wiring. Science tries to break free of that, extending our senses and subjecting our biases to scrutiny to reduce the chance we're fooling ourselves. If Nature's language is math, Bukowski was illiterate. I could further argue that Bukowski's profession is precisely one of fooling us. The arts are an artificial (albiet wonderful) means of evoking feeling. Sometimes that evocation is so powerful (or curious) that we attempt to examine it objectively as well as subjectively. That is one of the values of art, to inspire us to transcend it. So, can you see why Feynman was happy to let religion, philosophy and the arts wrestle with the subjective while science wrestles with the objective? The human mind's ability to imagine wrong answers is both boundless and effortless. Your contention that if you can't fit it into your profile or a pick, it's too long is (in my opinion) a sound bitey, twitterific view. If you have patience to posit theories, but none to defend them or consider others, why do you continue here? And why should we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 Randall Ahren wrote: Sorry, my post was to Celest and posed the question of what if we were all doing something profound and amazing and unaware of it? If we were part of something much bigger and grander than ourselves? That's the point of the reference to an emergent intelligence. As if our significance corresponded in scale to that of an ant bringing food to her colony or a red blood cell transporting oxygen to where it was needed. Celest's reply simply dismissed emergent intelligence as not relevant. The length of her posts tends to obsufcate, not illuminate truth. My cognitive resources are limited. I don't have the time or patience to deal with line-by-line replies to my posts. I believe that also to be the case for most other posters. She should use less words to say more. Try to emulate Bukowski. Bukowski would probably say something like the human race should live so well that the gods would tremble to take us. If your reply won't fit into your profile or at least a pick, it's too long. In the interest of brevity (since you seem to have a problem with lengthy, well thought out and well written posts), I'll just say that I understood why you might have felt it necessary to delete your original post. Also, I don't necessarily understand why you felt it necessary to rewrite it, sans the unnecessary comparison of Celestiall to a lawyer... which was at least a small improvement. It just wasn't necessarily necessary. ...Dres *Isn't necessarily awake yet* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celestiall Nightfire Posted April 2, 2012 Share Posted April 2, 2012 roll the dice if you’re going to try, go all the way. otherwise, don’t even start. if you’re going to try, go all the way. this could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe your mind. go all the way. it could mean not eating for 3 or 4 days. it could mean freezing on a park bench. it could mean jail, it could mean derision, mockery, isolation. isolation is the gift, all the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. and you’ll do it despite rejection and the worst odds and it will be better than anything else you can imagine. if you’re going to try, go all the way. there is no other feeling like that. you will be alone with the gods and the nights will flame with fire. do it, do it, do it. do it. all the way all the way. you will ride life straight to perfect laughter, its the only good fight there is. - Charles Bukowski ------------------------------------------------------------------ You heard the words, but you did not understand the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmettcullen93 Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 not to be mean but i think this thread is going to communism lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 11, 2012 Share Posted April 11, 2012 Communism? What does that mean to you? Is there even such a thing anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Allen West has "heard" that there are 80 of those rotten Commies in the House of Reps. Of course, he can't offer up any names or evidence... ETA: Jesus also told George Zimmerman that He would have shot Trayvon, too. WWJS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Allen West has "heard" that there are 80 of those rotten Commies in the House of Reps. Of course, he can't offer up any names or evidence... The most amusing part of that ridiculousness is that the actual communist party released a statement calling him a liar. Griffin Ceawlin also wrote: ETA: Jesus also told George Zimmerman that He would have shot Trayvon, too. WWJS? Oh that Jesus... always the comedian. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmettcullen93 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Communism? you could say that communism- (n.) a thought that nobody even can think of understanding. lol. Charolotte Caxton wrote: What does that mean to you? Is there even such a thing anymore? i suppose i just kinda lost interest in how a thread about advise has gone to a theological debate that has stuff nobody has even heard. but hey thats life right. opinions are like a**ho**s every body has them and they all stink. - ( i cant remember who said it but copyright to owner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Allen West has "heard" that there are 80 of those rotten Commies in the House of Reps. Of course, he can't offer up any names or evidence... ETA: Jesus also told George Zimmerman that He would have shot Trayvon, too. WWJS? Lol, WWJS, who would Jesus shoot? Jesus uses whips, and he goes after temple merchants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 No. Really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Griffin Ceawlin wrote: Allen West has "heard" that there are 80 of those rotten Commies in the House of Reps. Of course, he can't offer up any names or evidence... ETA: Jesus also told George Zimmerman that He would have shot Trayvon, too. WWJS? Lol, WWJS, who would Jesus shoot? Jesus uses whips, and he goes after temple merchants Wouldn't that be considered occupational profiling? ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Jesus just told me that is bogus misrepresentation. Jesus is not a fan of violently introducing metal into the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Wouldn't that be considered occupational profiling? ...Dres Most likely, but I don't think there are any commandments against that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Jesus just told me that is bogus misrepresentation. Jesus is not a fan of violently introducing metal into the body. Some people are amazingly able to convince themselves of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Who better to believe than yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden Ceriano Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Who better to believe than yourself? Jesus, of course. ...Dres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snugs McMasters Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Who better to believe than yourself? Are you asking for a list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Dresden Ceriano wrote: Charolotte Caxton wrote: Who better to believe than yourself? Jesus, of course. ...Dres Ah, perfect. Snugs, from you, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmettcullen93 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Charolotte Caxton wrote: Jesus just told me that is bogus misrepresentation. Jesus is not a fan of violently introducing metal into the body. lol i agree god is great. beer is good and people are crazy - billy currington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now