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If you want "play" stock-market then go ahead, the exchange itself seems to be run as well as possible.  Just remember that you, and they, have absolutely no recourse when someone does run off with the money* or just get bored and decide to stop working.  There is absolutely nothing tangible for you to invest in, LL will not intervene to recover your money and the only thing the exchange can do is say "we don't want to play with you any more (until you create a new alt we don't recognise)" to any miscreants.

[*Unless any loss is actually fraud, in which case you'll have to take it to RL police/courts if you want anything done about it.]

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You simply got unlucky I am afraid, I myself have had nothing short of a positive experience of it and though I know it sucks that someone did that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush, the majority are very honest and upfront. I am sorry about your losses, but there are over 50 companies now that have nothing to do with the scammer in question; but in all honestly it is not the exchanges fault really...things like this do happen even in real life and that is why here we have laws about having multiple identities...

(That is not to say I have not chosen shares that went down from time to time, we all have off-days lol)

~~~ 

And in furtherance to the comment made above yours "to the halycon days", are you serious???!

The "good old days" of banking and gambling were nothing but a scam-fest of ponzi schemes and theft on a scale never seen before in history, the ONLY exchange to come out of those dark days is SlCapex, and that is because the owner Skip takes it very seriously, not just everyone is allowed to list, and if anyone has seen some of my comments to CEOs they will see that they are grilled intensely as to how much money they need, the value they put on their company, what they will use the money for and in some cases their mental state (when they overvalue their companies to preposterous levels) 

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You aren't really investing either way - it's like Monopoly you "play" at investing but although you give up "Linden Dollar" to invest you aren't actually getting shares and you certainly aren't getting ownership as a result.    It's a simulated environment to pretend to, so hence when you lose your Linden Dollars you have no recourse.   The people who run off with the money I am sure would say they were "playing" at stock fraud.

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  • 2 weeks later...

To All:

I am the CEO of Capital Exchange Stock Market Simulation Game (www.slcapex.com) and I'd like to respond to some things posted in this thread. 

First, mischief Goldshark is correct to a certain point - Absolut Model Group (ABS) was halted because the CEO left SL and is not responding to anyone anymore.  After being in SL since 2007 and running an active and perceived successful modeling group, she had some rl issues and apparantly closed down the company.  Unfortunately this was only about 45 days after listing at Capital Exchange.  Remaining assets are going to be liquidated, and shareholders will receive something back.  I don't generally like to discuss peoples accounts because of confidentiality, but it's important to note that mischief Goldshark invested only 20 Lindens in ABS.  It's unfortunate that mischief and others lost much of what they invested, but only in a few circumstances was the lost more than a few US$ in Lindens - and people will receive something back once we liquidate remaining assets.  I invite mischief to come back and give the market a second chance - you just got a little unlucky at your first stock buy and I apologize for that.

In the 15 months since I have taken over Capital Exchange, this is the only virtual company that has failed that started with us.  With almost 60 listed companies now, I think that is a good track record.  Just like in real life, companies are going to fail for various reasons.  We do our best to only allow in companies that we feel will follow all the rules and not scam.  Will more companies fail in the future?  Probably.  Just like in real life, sometimes ventures fail.  It's beyond our control.

Let me be clear: we are a game and not real life investments.  We use Lindens and not rl currency, and the stock being purchased is not legal stock.  However with that being said, I take it all very seriously because of the amount of Lindens involved.  In 2011, we traded over L$100,000,000 in virtual stock at Capital Exchange.  I established a regulatory board, re-wrote an extensive rules section, and have banned avatars for trading violations and other TOS issues.  Many risks are still there, and people should only invest what they can afford to lose - however many people are making a great Linden profit and it's a fun way to learn how a stock market operates.

If anyone has any questions about Capital Exchange, please feel free to contact me.  Thanks.

Skip Oceanlane

CEO and Majority Shareholder

Capital Exchange

www.slcapex.com

 

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Skip Oceanlane wrote:

Let me be clear: we are a game and not real life investments.  We use Lindens and not rl currency, and the stock being purchased is not legal stock. 

Am I missing something? Of COURSE they are real life investments if you do in fact accept and make Linden transfers. The fact that a Linden is not spendable in RL has nothing to do with it: it can be exchanged for RL currency.

The only way you could be 'a game' is if your investors were investing imaginary Lindens.

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Skip Oceanlane wrote:

Let me be clear: we are a game and not real life investments.  We use Lindens and not rl currency, and the stock being purchased is not legal stock. 

Am I missing something? Of COURSE they are real life investments if you do in fact accept and make Linden transfers. The fact that a Linden is not spendable in RL has nothing to do with it: it can be exchanged for RL currency.

The only way you could be 'a game' is if your investors were investing imaginary Lindens.

Dillon - 

Look at what he said to me in this thread and my reply there:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/SL-CAPEX-Governance-Queries/m-p/1457419/highlight/false#M56880

"You are not buying shares in a real life company.  The companies that are listed are fictitious - Capital Exchange is just a game.  Let me give you an example - Capital Exchange (CAPX) itself. 

The software, website, etc. is owned by me personally.  There is no real life corporation of "Capital Exchange" - that is just the name I use within SL for the game.  Now, any Linden profits I withdraw and convert into US$ are listed under my own personal income taxes (IRS take notice!) but there is no rl corporation involved.  It's up to each CEO how they wish to organize things in rl, and I do not know what real life legal entity, if any, exists for Moneyserverz.  It doesn't really matter because the stock that is listed is fictitious and controlled by the person behind the avatar running the virtual company.  Are there risks involved?  Absolutely.  But since I took over, things have been extremelt stable, and we take it all very seriously to try and block scammers however possible.

So that is why I consider Capital Exchange a game of skill.  It's also a great way for people to learn how to trade stock for real life use.  You can place a market or limit order, buy into Initial Public offerings (IPO's), etc.  You should try it sometime  :-)

Skip Oceanlane

CEO and Majority Shareholder

Capital Exchange"

 

My Reply:

 "Whoa.......You are telling me that MoneyServeZ is a fictitious company?  (For instance there is an IPO http://www.slcapex.com/ipo  from Moneyserverz Exchange . )  Then what is this web site:  https://www.moneyserverz.com/en-.html  ???????????????????

Or are you using their name fictitiously under license from them?  I didn't try registering with MoneyServeZ but that sure looks like the real deal to me."

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I'd seen that. I guess there are games and then there are games. My point was that the investors were spending real money (since a Linden has a real life currency value). In any case I think I'll pass. I prefer to spend my Lindens on real things. Like flying saucers.

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Perrie:

The name "Moneyservers" belongs to the person behind the virtual company, who also owns the rights to the name in real life.  The two entities are separate as I previously explained.  I have no idea if there is an actual corporation in the home country the CEO resides of "Moneyserverz Inc" or an equivalent.  Maybe it's a one-person operation like Capital Exchange is?  You would have to ask the person of each listed company on our exchange.  But again, the virtual stock listed is not part of any legal rl entity.  Thanks.

 

Skip

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Dillon:

You are incorrect.  These are not real life investments, and I'll point out that the Linden is not a government-issued currency.  There is a distinct legal difference between using Lindens and using a government issued currency for what we do, like perhaps using the Euro or US Dollar.  We are a game of skill operating within Second Life using Lindens.  The object of the game is to get Lindens by playing the virtual stock market, and there are no real life legal entities listed.  Simple as that.

When you buy our virtual stock, you're giving Lindens to a specific person - not to an actual company. If you disagree, that's your right to, but we know we are operating within US laws and Linden Lab's Terms of Service.  Thanks.

Skip

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Skip Oceanlane wrote:

Dillon:

You are incorrect.  These are not real life investments, and I'll point out that the Linden is not a government-issued currency.  There is a distinct legal difference between using Lindens and using a government issued currency for what we do, like perhaps using the Euro or US Dollar.  We are a game of skill operating within Second Life using Lindens. 
The object of the game is to get Lindens by playing the virtual stock market, and there are no real life legal entities listed.
  Simple as that.

When you buy our virtual stock, you're giving Lindens to a specific person - not to an actual company. If you disagree, that's your right to, but we know we are operating within US laws and Linden Lab's Terms of Service.  Thanks.

Skip

"The object of the game is to get Lindens by playing the virtual stock market, and there are no real life legal entities listed."

Again from your Web Site:  http://www.slcapex.com/symbol/MSX/profile

"Dear Potential Shareholders: My name is Lulli Yip, and I'm the CEO of Moneyserverz Exchange. We are a currency exchange company connected within Second Life. Moneyserverz seeks capital to invest in new technoligies and new `out of the box` ideas.

 

We are currently working on new services and implement new currencys such as USD, GBP and CHF. For this implementation we need to restock enough currency to keep our daily buisness running. We need your investment to develop new features on our website and in Second Life and to implement Netteller, Bitcoin and Phone/SMS payment."

"Dividends will be paid quarterly from profits for that quarter, if they exist. Please note that Moneyserverz is a RL company that pays RL taxes in Germany. All dividends paid will be in the form of Lindens, and no real life currency is used for this purpose. Share ownership does not give anyone real life legal rights to our company - everything is considered part of the game of Capital Exchange."

"Please see my Chairman's Letter above for more specific information on how we intend to use capital raised at Capital Exchange and please also download our investors PDF."

The provided links take you to the REAL LIFE COMPANY:  https://www.moneyserverz.com/investors.html

 That sure sounds like a real life legal entity to me!

Now I am not a lawyer but my understanding of U.S. tax laws (my home country), until you monetize (sell for cash) any Linden Dollars you earn In World, whether you are earning them as a merchant, a scriptor, a DJ, an escort or whatever, those Linden Dollar earnings are not taxable.  But THE MOMENT you convert them to Real Life Dollars they do become taxable.

Oh well, all this is really no skin off my teeth.  Personally I have no interest beyond my curiosity about all this right now.  I myself have other things I'm interested in.  If Linden Lab is comfortable with your presence in Second Life that is fine by me.  But some things that you have said just are not fitting together for me.

 

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  • 1 month later...

How exactly is this stock exchange working ?

People need an i-game company to list ? How's an IPO done ?

Also what influances the stock price ?  All a bit unclear.

Can someone please explain ?

Also any ideas if there are EU laws against such gaming ?

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  • 10 months later...

A simplified version

1.

a) SL stock exchange uses 'fictional' companies that exist in SL only (sometimes not but that does not matter now)

b) Said companies earn L$ with in-game services

 

2.

a) You use L$ in SL stock exchange

b) L$ can be bought with or sold for -real life- currency


3.  

2b  =  L$ have -real life- value  = Potential -real life- spendings of earnings

 

4.

3 + 1 = 'Virtual' companies on second life have -real life- values.

 

5.

3 + 4  = Stocks on Secondlife Exchange is no game, for transactions and stocks there have potential -real life- values.

 

 

6. most important

None of that matters, for, sadly, there are yet no laws concerning such environment, hence the owners can happily sit under a legal umbrella.

As far as laws that I know are concerned, the moment someone spends their money to buy L$, they have paid for a service and the money becomes property of Linden Labs. Likewise, if someone exchanges their L$ for real money, the company sends a payment to given individual (And the only thing that binds them to performing the transaction, is the agreements every user signs upon creating an account). Outside the company, legally, L$ have no value, hence stocks exchange running on them can get away under pretense of being a 'game' that doesn't use actual currency, without being under any goverment control.

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