Thoughts on the new proposal?

[Sassy Romano]

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Darrius Gothly wrote:

Again, thank you for pointing me to the JIRA.

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You're welcome.  I agree that it's a viewer "thing" but I didn't know the detail about how it was done, Kitty does.

As everyone tends to agree, this overall behaviour is the unwanted stepchild, we didn't ask for this or much of it's associated function.  That's why we got it, we never get what we ask for, only what we don't.

*puts my pom poms down on the ground and walks away in disgust*

[Nalates Urriah]

Mark, venting your frustration here and insulting the Lindens doesn't help.

One does not get another person communicating by insulting them. The commerce team does not communicate now. Once upon a time they did. In my opinion the abuse and uncivil nature of the communities communication has driven them into hiding... or at least avoidance of residents.

One can point out the teams mistakes while remaining civil.

The frustration at the lack of the team's understanding of how SL is used is understandable. So, too is the Lindens lack of understanding, they aren't''t paid to use SL. They are paid to code. No one knows all the ways SL is used. In reading Darrius' article it never occurred to me what this would to to RLV. I only realized that from reading the JIRA.

I am soooo frustrated about the implementation of SEARCH I usually refrain from commenting for fear of sliding into venting. If you want to vent, go yell at a tree or something. I don't want to hear your venting.

We are complaining about the Lindens lack of communication. Much of ours is abusing. There is no justification for abusing another human. In a significant way we are responsible for the current state of communication.

We might get more of what we want, if we stop dehumanisation of the Lindens so we can abuse them and feel justified about it... If one listens to OZ in the interview, it should become obvious what is happening with drame, insults, and abuse.

[Pamela Galli]

We did ask for this, sort of, because we complain constantly about delivery failures.  This is the team's attempt to reduce deliveries that fail because of capping. But they don't know how to direct ONLY marketplace items to go into the Received folder.

 

IMO, ppl need to know two things: 1) Do not click BUY on the checkout page unless you are online (PUT A BIG WARNING ON THE PAGE!) and 2) You can change the # of hours or days in your Recent Items filter to something besides Since Logoff.

[Dartagan Shepherd]

Well, when you deal with one bit of incompetence after another and pay for that in dollars, extra work, spend hours sorting through disjointed information scattered over various sites, all while being socially engineered as a passionate resident, you're bound to vent at around the hundredth time you face frustration.

But that said, NO ONE is required to think of a company, service or product as a bunch of humans slaving away that deserve our utmost sympathy, or the best in human behavior. Especially when a vent is the only choice short of leaving.

Or you might feel like you're a sucker in a stream of social experiments with something like a chairman of the board who manages to do this ... http://www.ipromisephilip.com/ built on software that was crowdsourced for a fraction of the cost with yet another venture (coffee and flowers).

But what I've learned is to not create an endless loop by playing advocate for a company that does manage to frustrate a good portion of their user base, and thereby water down what may be a sincere complaint born of frustration, but sincere feedback nonetheless.

This team shouldn't be making decisions. A product manager should be dictating what they should do and what they should implement who "does" understand the way people use SL, rather than the team wasting yet more time hours playing around in-world.

All it needed was a simple folder for marketplace deliveries in the first place.

I don't humanize companies, I judge them strictly by their product, saving the humanizing for when that product exceeds my expectations.

If you're going to humanize LL employees and a product, maybe humanize the venting customer equally and call it a tie.

[Perrie Juran]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

My most important question is: will I be able to answer a notecard that is in the received items folder? Or must every single customer request for support be dragged into my notecard folder first to be able to answer it? I fear the latest will be the case.

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OH I didn't think of that. 

 

Yeah that too

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I am assuming also that we will not have the ability to view / read a notecard or texture either before choosing its disposition (move/delete).  This also adds extra uneeded steps.

It is already a pain in the butt dealing with notecard and landmark givers In World.  I wish I had thought of this before doing the survey. 

P.S.  On a side note, please merchants and club owners, etc, if you use note card / landmark givers at your In World stores, pretty please add a timer to the event.  Give me 15 to 30 seconds to rez and get oriented and moved out of you landing zone before assaulting me with them. 

 

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

Maybe you must just look at it from the bright side. I will make a few scripters rich. Who is the first scripting hero who is going to bring me this brand new automated 'sort out my develivery folder on log-in' product, that automated sends new notecards to my notecard folder, textures to my textures folder, landmarks to landmarks and so on? I'm sure you can expect a lot of sales for a product like this.

It would even be more nice if I can customize such a product for my own needs, and tell it where I want my snapshots to go by default, or make a difference for where I store textures that I bought and textures that I uploaded myself.

 

And who is the first to come with a work around that repears this RLV problem?

[Marcus Hancroft]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

Maybe you must just look at it from the bright side. I will make a few scripters rich. Who is the first scripting hero who is going to bring me this brand new automated 'sort out my develivery folder on log-in' product, that automated sends new notecards to my notecard folder, textures to my textures folder, landmarks to landmarks and so on? I'm sure you can expect a lot of sales for a product like this.

It would even be more nice if I can customize such a product for my own needs, and tell it where I want my snapshots to go by default, or make a difference for where I store textures that I bought and textures that I uploaded myself.

 

And who is the first to come with a work around that repears this RLV problem?

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You are absolutely right, Miss Madeliefste.  I don't know how long it will be before somebody scripts this but I hope it's soon after the code is rolled out.  LOL!

As far as the RLV, Marine Kelley (the creator of the RLV) says that her code will need to be updated to bypass the Received Items folder for items meant to go to the #RLV folder.  She can do that.  As for the third party viewers, they will have to update their own code and everyone who uses the RLV will have to update their viewers.  Marine can't do it for them because they do not use her RLV code in their viewers.  

What a rigamarole, huh?

[Zanara Zenovka]

That's viewer code, not LSL.

[Sassy Romano]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

And who is the first to come with a work around that repears this RLV problem?

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Well that will either be Marine Kelly with an update to RLV viewer or Kitty Barnett with RLVa.  It doesn't matter who, that doesn't actually solve the immediate problem.

The bigger issue is that as far as most users are concerned, they are using an RLV capable viewer.  Version doesn't really excite them.  So what we stand to have are tens (hundreds) of thousands of devices inworld which suddenly won't work as expected.

As an example, someone buys something from MP.  Tries it, it doesn't work as advertised at all.  Some may choose to contact the creator, many won't and may review it negatively on MP and tell friends what rubbish it is.  This is compounded by the fact that we don't get emails on reviews, something far beyond the skillset of an LL coder it would appear.

Then there are those who have something in inventory that used to work, now it doesn't.  Frustration -> bin it.

Then there's the small case that suddenly, all our documentation and video tutorials (for those of us that have done them) are now detailing behaviour that no longer happens.

Support staff stand to be heavily burdened just telling people "You need to update your viewer" IF that's the solution that it requires, the problem is, right now there is no replacement viewer.

This could happen as soon as tomorrow, IF LL promote Bluesteel or LeTigre to mainchannel.  If they do this, the whole viewer community will have to rush updates to RLV, AFTER Marine and Kitty have made the required changes and you can reasonably assume that the likes of Firestorm will not release an update just for this.

Bottom line, this behaviour should not be broken by LL, nobody has asked for the changes that are being made in the way that they are being delivered.  There are still many outstanding questions as to how this Received Items will work, they put out Bluesteel and LeTigre BEFORE receiving and analysing responses from the survey that was further buried by being sent by notecard to only those who responded to the first survey but went live with content breakage regardless!

 

 

[Marcus Hancroft]

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Zanara Zenovka wrote:

That's viewer code, not LSL.

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Correct

[Zanara Zenovka]

I probably should have elaborated in my previous reply  - unfortunately no one can "script" a solution to folder destinations, and thereby make any money out of it - SL scripts can't affect such things - only viewer code can.

[Sassy Romano]

For RLV creators:  LL have taken the hint from the 300+ people that slapped the JIRA in a day and will roll back Bluesteel and LeTigre regions and not deploy the Received Items changes until this is addressed properly.

The sad thing?  This information about RLV inventory offers not working WAS provided in the thread where they solicited feedback.

Gotta actually READ the feedback I guess.

[CommerceTeam Linden]

We appreciate your feedback as it is a vital aspect of the development process. We have not yet determined next steps on this feature, and will only do so after carefully reviewing all feedback.

A separate problem that has been mentioned in this thread is related to SVC-7748 on LeTigre and BlueSteel. We will be rolling back those regions on Wednesday, and a comment has been posted to the JIRA.

[Sassy Romano]

Just a request, can you come back with the absolute proposal and test again on ADITI FIRST before rolling this out to RC regions next time?

Remember, we have to support and explain to OUR customers what's going on and when someone says "I haven't received my item", if that's because they're standing on an RC sim with MP offers going someplace else than where we expect them to, that's just so not helpful!

COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE COMMUNICATE

There are also a number of outstanding questions about the second cut of the implementation that should be answered please, such as "can notecards be read without being moved?".

So many questions remain, this is just not ready for deployment in any form yet.