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Amphei Jierdon

Mesh Deformer

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Here I've found something extremely exciting about rigged meshes:

http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2012/01/qarl-fizz-announces-alpha-release-of.html

Qarl Fizz, who somehow seems to have been a Qarl Linden before, shows a video of a software, which seems, that it would solve many annoyances we have with rigges meshes atm. Look at the video and see, what Qarls mesh jacket does, when he increases bodyfat at his avatar. 

I would like to know, if anybody else has more informatin about this and when we can hope, this will officially be included into second life. 

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Qarl began working on the mesh deformer project following a SL community fundraiser to help cover his RL costs while developing it. (The funds were "crowd sourced" towards the latter part of last year).

This Parametric Deformer project that Qarl is working on should allow for mesh clothing to fit most avatar shapes, as the video you mention shows.

As far as I know, once the project is completed Qarl will release the source code, which hopefully will be adopted by all viewers (official and third-party). If this is the case, mesh clothing will become usable on a far higher level - pretty much any shaped avatar with a human form should be able to wear any item of mesh clothing (within reasonable constraints I would assume).

Still, very exciting stuff - fingers crossed the project is seen through to completion. Qarl is well regarded in the development field, so if anyone can get this to work, he can!

:matte-motes-smile:

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Thanks @ Maeve for the information. Here's one more designer crossing fingers, so the Lindens will build in Qarls code. 

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Yes Qarl was actually one of the lead developers when LL developed the mesh code for the new mesh system.

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Dilbert Dilweg wrote:

Yes Qarl was actually one of the lead developers when LL developed the mesh code for the new mesh system.

"Was" means he is no more?  Why that?

:matte-motes-confused:

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This looks really good might be able to solve some of my mesh elongated issues I get with my characters. I see the code is available but where do you put this code? 

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Qarl was one of many Lindens that LL laid off quite a while back. Since then he has been most gracious about continuing to use his skills to develop things for the open source community, either volintarily or, when the effort is large, for a fee raised by Residents, and making those new innovations available to TPV developers and also to Linden Lab itself. LL has had mixed reactions to his external efforts, but it looks like they may adopt at least some of his innovations.

Why he was let go is a mystery. 

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Amphei Jierdon wrote:

Thanks @ Maeve for the information. Here's one more designer crossing fingers, so the Lindens will build in Qarls code. 

Yes you and many others that Sell and/or buy Mesh Clothing better REALLLYYY hope LL incoprorates Qarl's code into the LL Viewer because as of Oz Linden's recent announcement of TPV policy changes, this code CANNOT go into any other viewer until LL decides it goes into their viewer (part of LL's recent "Squash Innovation" policies & initiative).

Since the deformer would clearly fall into LL's definition of a new function that impacts a SHARED EXPERIENCE on the grid, it doesnt matter if this new feature was highly demanded by the SL community... it doesnt matter that Qarl's efforts have been Group Funded exclusively by the community with no LL involvement..   Until LL endorses and actually incorporates Qarl's code into their viewer, no other TPV can release this cool Deformer code onto the SL grid.

You might not mind this policy or you might hate this policy but that is Oz Linden's new policy.

I heard rumours from the blogs that LL has expressed that they would be interested in incorporating Qarl's Deformer into their viewer..... but then we run into another issue due to Oz Linden's Squash Innovation policy.....

Even if LL has shown an interest in the Deformer function for their viewer, the speed at which they decide to incorporate this code is the next question.  LL is hurting bad for Developers and are majorly backlogged on SL things to fix - much less to create.  LL could decide that they do not have time to put the new Deformer into their LL Veiwer for 10+ months or even years.

So even though Phoenix and other TPV have the time and ability to incoprorate this code in possibly weeks, they and all of us cant do anything but sit back and wait for LL to release it.

Just thought you all should know this if you didnt.

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Toysoldier Thor wrote:


Since the deformer would clearly fall into LL's definition of a new function that impacts a SHARED EXPERIENCE on the grid, it doesnt matter if this new feature was highly demanded by the SL community... it doesnt matter that Qarl's efforts have been Group Funded exclusively by the community with no LL involvement..   Until LL endorses and actually incorporates Qarl's code into their viewer, no other TPV can release this cool Deformer code onto the SL grid.


 

I don't think the deformer would fall into the category of 'altering the shared experience' restriction on TPVs.  Here's Why:

 

For the deformer to work, it utilizes the shape information passed to the viewer to render the various avatars correctly (since otherwise, the shape would have to be pre-applied and a whole deformed avatar mesh would have to be downloaded for every avatar!).  Therefore, everything needed to render all the avatars shape is already available in the viewer.  So, a viewer could deform meshes anyway it wants to for rendering without affecting anyone elses experience of the SL environment.  Those without the deformer code would continue to see SL as it is today, those with it would see rigged meshes deform to match the shapes of the players wearing them.

 

Therefore, by Oz's own definitions, this would NOT affect the 'shared' SL environment....only the individual viewers presentation of it to its user.  So the deformer project (in this regard) does not fall into the 2.k rule in this way.

 

But, any server-side alteration required for it to work would HAVE to be implemented by LL.  If it requires those, no TPV can implement it without LL providing the server-side changes.  So, unless a TPV manages to hack around that limitation and send stuff to OTHER clients and the server which somehow causes them to see deformed rigged meshes where they shouldn't........it won't be excludable on those grounds.

 

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Helium Loon wrote:


Toysoldier Thor wrote:


Since the deformer would clearly fall into LL's definition of a new function that impacts a SHARED EXPERIENCE on the grid, it doesnt matter if this new feature was highly demanded by the SL community... it doesnt matter that Qarl's efforts have been Group Funded exclusively by the community with no LL involvement..   Until LL endorses and actually incorporates Qarl's code into their viewer, no other TPV can release this cool Deformer code onto the SL grid.


 

I don't think the deformer would fall into the category of 'altering the shared experience' restriction on TPVs.  Here's Why:

 

For the deformer to work, it utilizes the shape information passed to the viewer to render the various avatars correctly (since otherwise, the shape would have to be pre-applied and a whole deformed avatar mesh would have to be downloaded for every avatar!).  Therefore, everything needed to render all the avatars shape is already available in the viewer.  So, a viewer could deform meshes anyway it wants to for rendering without affecting anyone elses experience of the SL environment.  Those without the deformer code would continue to see SL as it is today, those with it would see rigged meshes deform to match the shapes of the players wearing them.

 

Therefore, by Oz's own definitions, this would NOT affect the 'shared' SL environment....only the individual viewers presentation of it to its user.  So the deformer project (in this regard) does not fall into the 2.k rule in this way.

 

But, any server-side alteration required for it to work would HAVE to be implemented by LL.  If it requires those, no TPV can implement it without LL providing the server-side changes.  So, unless a TPV manages to hack around that limitation and send stuff to OTHER clients and the server which somehow causes them to see deformed rigged meshes where they shouldn't........it won't be excludable on those grounds.

 

Actually this is not the case and Phoenix has arleady point out the DFORMER as a perfect example of how the new policy could impact new innovations like Deformer to the SL Grid.  And unless you have found a posting where Oz has since stated that the deformer is NOW NOT impacted by this new policy, Deformer falls within the spirit of the policy.

"COMMON EXPERIENCE ON THE GRID"

Lets use this example...   I am wearing a full meshed clothing outfit that I bought and I happen to have a TPV that has fully incoprorated the Deformer code that automatically adjusts my mesh clothing on my avatar so that my viewer see my clothing fitting 100% properly  (i.e. I have not taking 1/2 hour to adjust my mesh and my avatar shape so that my body parts dangle thru the clothing).  So to me, thanks to my deforemer TPV - my mesh outfit looks AWESOME!   And anyone else that has the same TPV with the deformer code would also see my avatar looks 100% awesome in my clothes.

Then I go to a club and 10 of the 80 Avatars at the club use LL's Main viewer that does not have the Deformer code because LL didnt want to incoprorate the code or doesnt have time right now.  So when they look at my avatar from their LL viewer - they witness a different SL Grid experience - a degraded one - since they see me dancing with my covered body parts dangling outside the clothing.  In fact, if I am a woman and my breasts / nipples are clearly popping out past my top - not only is it a different and degraded experience to this user - it would mean to a portion of the population I am actually violating G and PG sims for being nude.

As such, the DEFORMER clearly falls within the new LL Policy of "stiffle innovation in the name of Shared experience".

It is not a policy based on if the server or viewer is responsible... it is clearly based on the rule that LL wants ALL USERS to experience the SL Gird activities and objects on their viewer the same way.  Deformer would violate this.

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Well, Oz has already stated publicly that the deformer is something that would be considered a feature that alters the shared experience since only viewers with the code will see the mesh outfit fitting your avatar properly. To any viewer without the code, your mesh outfit will not look like it fits correctly.

In the broadcast that Oz Linden did with Jessica Lyon, he did state specifically that the Lab is working with Qarl to try and make sure the code works with LL's viewer. So, I think that is promising albeit not a guarantee.

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I think, mesh could be a great thing. I'm a designer of clothes, and I would like to use meshes. But for me, it makes no sense, if every 2nd customer IMs me and complains, that her butt is is popping through the skirt she bought. Ok, I could issue 3 different sizes - this means more work, less fun and still the dresses will not fit perfectly. 

I really wonder, what is so important, to steal the time from LL developers, that it needs 10 month or so to apply in that code, if Jessica Lyon and her team could do it right away. If they have so much work, they maybe should hire one more developer... I suggest Qarl Fizz ;)

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Oh my! You so need to find the SL Blogosphere. The mesh Deformer was crowd funded by SL residents in December, if I remember correctly.

#SL Mesh Deformer Goes Alpha

#SL Mesh Deformer Worries

Status Update Mesh Deformer

#SL Mesh Deformer Update

Mesh Deformer 0.2 Update

Or check all the mesh information I cover: Mesh Stuff

 EDIT: Update ---------------------- 6/19

Mesh Deformer News Week 24

More #SL Mesh Clothes Needed

More Mesh Deformer News Week 24

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almostaghost wrote:

So basicly Qarl took the money from this and ran? 

 

Have not heard any updates from his blog since 2012 and after he got the money.

HAHAHAHA

Do some reasearch!  The code has been complete and with Linden Lab for over TWO YEARS and LL have done nothing with it.  Try reading the JIRA that tracked the project where Qarl tried to get Oz Linden to respond, while LL remained deaf or dumb (or maybe Oz was ordered to remain mute by management), not sure which.

(let me help you with that, go here https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/STORM-1716? and read up a few...)

Geez

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