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I don't mind LL wanting a copy of your driver's license for this. I mind them telling people they are a Professional Content Creator when all they really are is a registered content creator. A "Professional Content Creator" is cashing out to paypal the equivalent of over L$20,000 each and every day on average 24*7 all year long. Otherwise they are not making their full income from SL and are not a "Professional". While they may be a hobbyist with enough skills to make "professional looking content" it does not make them a professional.

 

So LL needs to change the name of the program to what it is: Registered Content Creators". Unless LL really is going to limit this stuff to the few actual companies LL is known to aid and assist ahead of the rest of their paycheck paying customers whom LL does not give the same anti competitive and possibly illegal assistance to.

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Where do you sign up for this? Or is it something you don't sign up for? Also, do a search I came across this site: SL Pro!

Linden never got so involved in creation. I'm pretty concerned that us small designers are going to be out of a SL jobs. What is the purpose of a limited program such as these? And why do they have to "pay" for these programs. OMG we pay so much now. The thing is, I read everything I can find about SL and it's hard to find any information, until it's too late to be part of it or it's unclear and criptic. Ugh... bummer for sure.

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

Where do you sign up for this? 

It's at the very end of the video linked in the OP: "Join the 'Advanced Creator Tools Notification' Group in-world for more information".

You'll find, however, that the group was founded by Charlar Linden, who is no longer at Linden Lab.

Anyway, whether they call it "Advanced" or "Professional" or "Registered" or "Annointed"... I'm very much more concerned about the fact that they're qualifying creators for this, when the griefing potential would seem to be determined wholly by who owns the products that use these new "tools".  

Granted, I am utterly baffled by how these new "experience permissions" work in practice.  In Second Life as we've always known it, permissions are obtained by objects based on their ownership, not on who created them.  By shifting to creator... I just can't figure out what this means. It would seem as if creators are going to be held responsible for every use of their creations.  That would be by far the largest change in the SL economy, ever... so I'm guessing it somehow means something else.

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Well I have joined all the groups, they have my bank details and my real name and address, I am willing to form a limited company called msdcs, every thing else is named that way including my email, I also allow direct feedback on all products vie my website, I am not sure what else I can do.

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Well, my concern is that none of us may want to do any of those things, if the plan is to make creators responsible for everything users may do with their stuff, when that stuff uses these new advanced tools.  At first blush, that would seem to preclude using these new tools for anything related to combat, unless the creator also kept complete control of where the items were rezzed and how they were used.  

So... if the creator must be responsible for the "experience" for which permissions are granted... then basically the creator dare not sell anything using these advanced tools, lest the new owner do something bad with it.  So... then I guess landowners wouldn't really be able to own the experience-generating objects on their parcels, and "creators" would become custom experience installers.  Or something.  

But if that's not the plan, what possible point can there be to vetting creators instead of owners?

It baffles me.

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Ann Otoole wrote:

I don't mind LL wanting a copy of your driver's license for this...

I bloody do; I haven't got one!  I'm already prevented from uploading meshes as I can't get PIOF.  Since that is a requirement for mesh I would expect LL to do the same for the new tools.

Neither of which will prevent me (or anyone else) creating second-rate objects and scripts, but this is not the start of the rot - mesh was.

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Can't  you get PIOF other ways? Most states (if you are in the U.S.) will issue official ID cards, and I think the Lab takes those - or do they? I don't know about what they take from other nations. Passports, maybe?

I realize not everyone drives or travels but everyone can get an I.D. card I think?

On the issue of the rest of the changes, I don't know.  We'll have to see how it all pans out, I guess. We can't do much about their decisions.

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Melita Magic wrote:

...and I think the Lab takes those - or do they?...

I'm not in the US, never learnt to drive*, neither have nor want credit cards and my bank doesn't talk to paypal so, no, there's no way I can get PIOF with LL.  I got adult verified by sending LL my passport details but apparently such ID isn't good enough for mesh, so I'm out in the cold there and fully expect to be with the new tools too.  Still, time will tell, there's no logic to most LL decisions so no particular reason they should follow their own precedent this time.

[*Although I am qualified for sea and air vehicles, just not land ^^]

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the experience permissions creator programme seems like a precautionary measure. same as the mesh upload programme is

given that the portal guns appear to be intersim capable (llTeleportAgent) and that temp-attach can be done without explicit consent to any avatar detected then can see why linden is a bit cautious about letting these out. linden realms does temp-attach this way with the HUD. the video shows how its done another way by clicking on the object which is pretty cool and is the best way to do temp-attach imo

the experience permissions scripts written as intended are going to change the inworld for the better i think. will also take a bit of pressure off the servers as well. eg. no more hax teleporter scripts, no more demo objects to inventory, etc

will still be few gotchas even with this programme. like: a generic no-mod, transfer teleport script that reads destinations from a mod notecard, could easily be turned, by someone else, into a random portal gun able to be used in other areas. the griefing potential aside, the ability for non-scripters to do this is quite important though. same way its important for users of radiostream changers, AOs, etc

so i agree with Qie. its the owner who will create any distortions and not the script writer as such

i think that any precautionary/defensive effort should go into the About Land: parcel controls. something along the lines of: Experience Permissions: [ ] parcel owner [ ] group [ ] anyone. with an estate/sim override setting as well. so at the most secure setting then experience permissions functions not owned by the parcel owner are not going to work at all, except on yourself. like gridwide self-teleport and in-sim self temp-attach rp costumes changes, etc

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Qie Niangao wrote:


Faye Feldragonne wrote:

Where do you sign up for this? 

It's at the very end of the video linked in the OP: "Join the 'Advanced Creator Tools Notification' Group in-world for more information".

You'll find, however, that the group was founded by Charlar Linden, who is no longer at Linden Lab.

Anyway, whether they call it "Advanced" or "Professional" or "Registered" or "Annointed"... I'm very much more concerned about the fact that they're qualifying
creators
for this, when the griefing potential would seem to be determined wholly by who
owns
the products that use these new "tools".  

Granted, I am utterly baffled by how these new "experience permissions" work in practice.  In Second Life as we've always known it, permissions are obtained by objects based on their ownership, not on who created them.  By shifting to creator... I just can't figure out what this means. It would seem as if creators are going to be held responsible for every use of their creations.  
That
would be by far the largest change in the SL economy, ever... so I'm guessing it somehow means something else.

I'm not needing these types of tools at this moment. But curious as to why we have to sign up for these things. Don't they know who we are when we make accounts? They have all my information already. Interesting.

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Anne, I was a professional writer, sold paperback books for along time, and by your standards, I was not a professional writer. Then again, novelists are underpaid. LOL

I easily made the cut when I was a business manager in real life, but that did not involve being creative. It did not nurture artist within.

What are you saying to all the creative people in the world? I would suggest you read "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron. Art is not measured by money. Creativity is an expression of the soul.

Then again, maybe you were making a joke. Hugs.

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Artists are not professionals. They are artists. As are most content creators in SL.

 

Again my issue is with an incorrect label. What II is proposing is a "Registered Content Developer" program. Not a "Professional Content Creator" program. By indicating a developer (this has more to do with programmed function and LL did most of the coding anyway) is registered then people will know their lawyers can get at the developer a lot faster and without a PI in theory. That is all it is. As for the idea this program will prevent bad things from happening? lmao. I'm sure there will be no shortage of griefers registering all kinds of drivers licenses for the sport of turning the grid into a massive pinball table.

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Ann Otoole wrote:

Artists are not professionals. They are artists. As are most content creators in SL.

 

Again my issue is with an incorrect label. What II is proposing is a "Registered Content Developer" program. Not a "Professional Content Creator" program. By indicating a developer (this has more to do with programmed function and LL did most of the coding anyway) is registered then people will know their lawyers can get at the developer a lot faster and without a PI in theory. That is all it is. As for the idea this program will prevent bad things from happening? lmao. I'm sure there will be no shortage of griefers registering all kinds of drivers licenses for the sport of turning the grid into a massive pinball table.

I agree that people who want to cause mischief will find a way. Registered or not. LL can already tell who made what, and who did what. Their Terms of Agreement state they monitor all your activity...locations, too, and who you're in contact with inworld. So, not sure why the extra steps are needed. There might be internal workings we're not aware of... I won't register (or try) unless it means I can't sell anything anymore. It's a bit confusing to me. I just thought the tools were cool... Hope more are to come and available to everyone. 

I understand your post now.

Most content developers I've met in SL are just creative people, often like me, who were writers, artists, designers. SL is a wonderful environment to express ourselves. Hugs.

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I'm not needing these types of tools at this moment. But curious as to why we have to sign up for these things.
Don't they know who we are when we make accounts?
They have all my information already. Interesting.


They only know who you are if you have provided them some kind of billing info.  Many accounts are completely anonymous.

 I'm not exactly sure how limiting the tools for creators will prevent an end user from turning a benign creation into a tool of grief though.  It will be interesting to see what LL has in mind. 

 

Edit:  One could argue that there could be a difference between a creation used for purposes other than what it was intended to be used for and one that was specifically made to disrupt a person's SL experience.  I'm on the fence about this until I know more about it.  

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This notion that Linden Lab is somehow mislabeling their program is misguided at best, coming from the "high ground" at worst.

"Preofessional" is not limited to a monetary scale: if it were, the definition "a person who engages in an activity with great competence" would not exist.

In terms of Second Life, a "Professional" anything is one who knows what they are doing and how to do it. The real world equivalent would be the professional carpenter who, while posessing an intimate knowledge of his/her craft, chose not to pursue a career utilizing that knowledge - indeed opting to take the odd job on the side, from the small to the truly large.

That is the sort of professional who should be given access to these tools. Not those whose sole purpose is to profit off of them - and that is likely what Linden Lab meant. 

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Seven Overdrive wrote:


Faye Feldragonne wrote:

I'm not needing these types of tools at this moment. But curious as to why we have to sign up for these things.
Don't they know who we are when we make accounts?
They have all my information already. Interesting.


They only know who you are if you have provided them some kind of billing info.  Many accounts are completely anonymous.

 I'm not exactly sure how limiting the tools for creators will prevent an end user from turning a benign creation into a tool of grief though.  It will be interesting to see what LL has in mind. 

 

Edit:  One could argue that there could be a difference between a creation used for purposes other than what it was intended to be used for and one that was specifically made to disrupt a person's SL experience.  I'm on the fence about this until I know more about it.  

But they can disable that account. They still know who that avatar is and the IP. So, their thinking is someone who gives idenity won't misbehave. Nah, real idenity didn't stop anyone from taking their ***** out.

 

 

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

But they can disable that account. They still know who that avatar is and the IP. So, their thinking is someone who gives idenity won't misbehave. Nah, real idenity didn't stop anyone from taking their ***** out.

 

 

 

That's true.  Giving real identity won't stop people from misbehaving, but limiting the tools to those that have the most to lose until LL has a better understanding how this new toolset will be utilized within SL, seems like a smart move to me.

 This of course is all speculation as we have no idea what the criteria for acceptance into the Professional Creators Program will be yet.  Speculating is always fun, but often ends up being wrong.   

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Seven Overdrive wrote:

That's true.  Giving real identity won't stop people from misbehaving, but
limiting the tools to those that have the most to lose until LL has a better understanding how this new toolset will be utilized within SL, seems like a smart move to me.

This of course is all speculation as we have no idea what the criteria for acceptance into the Professional Creators Program will be yet.  Speculating is always fun, but often ends up being wrong.   

However, does making things difficult for those who LL stands to gain the most from seem like a smart move?

I would hope LL understands the new toolset completely before opening up the program. This seems like a super top-secret skunkworks project, which probably isn't the wisest course with something as large as a new/redesigned run-time permissions system. Think about all the content that could break if isn't designed and implemented well

Maybe this whole program is to distract from the technical challenges - something LL hasn't been above doing with MP lately.

 

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Seven Overdrive wrote in part:

Edit:  One could argue that there could be a difference between a creation used for purposes other than what it was intended to be used for and one that was specifically made to disrupt a person's SL experience.  I'm on the fence about this until I know more about it.  

 

In principle, I too can see that argument, and accept that there could exist "tools" that are more prone to creator-generated abuse than any we've had before.  I remain baffled by how any such tools could be used by a responsible creator in such a way that it prevented abuse by the wrong end-user.

I can dream-up a new class of "experience creator" that gets some vetting before being allowed to obtain permissions to inflict the experience on anybody.  The scripts that use those permissions might be created by somebody completely different from this hypothetical "experience creator."  Maybe that's what they have in mind, but if so, they certainly found an odd way of expressing it.

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Qie Niangao wrote: 

In principle, I too can see that argument, and accept that there could exist "tools" that are more prone to creator-generated abuse than any we've had before.  I remain baffled by how any such tools could be used by a responsible creator in such a way that it prevented abuse by the wrong end-user.

 

While we are speculating and all, has anyone entertained the thought that objects created utilizing these tools may not be transferrable, and can only be used by the creators?  

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I think the idea is that any object that uses the enhanced permission system will provide a popup window that allows you to accept or reject the "experience".

In that regard it is similar to the way it is now when you get that yellow confirmation window when you rez any object that has a script with a llGiveMoney command in it.

 

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That may be, but please re-read the quote.  What you have stated is not really relevant to the question that was raised about the responsibility for the potential abuse apparent with these tools. 

 

Edit:  Perhaps I should expand.  If we take Linden Realms as an example, perhaps the tools can only be used by them on their own parcel/estate where they have set up a game/experience of some type.  Profit would have to come from pay-to-play or even through microtransactions that enable advantages when purchased, but the end user never actually takes ownership of the products utilizing these tools.  You take nothing with you when you leave Linden Realms.  

 

Like I said, just speculation, but it would answer some of the questions raised.

 

Second edit:  I will get my full thoughts out eventually, busy cooking at the same time. :^)  What I am further alluding to is that perhaps "customers" will not be able to purchase a system or game using these tools for their own use, that only the approved creator can actually put them to use.   

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If there is indeed a popup window that asks permission, then the responsibility ultimately lies with the end user. Just as it does when they rez an object from an unknown creator, click Grant on the debit permission window, and subsequently gets all their L$ stolen.

I believe that asking permission, in combination with the expanded tools being available only to those who have proven their identity to LL (or maybe even stricter control than that), will minimize the griefing potential.

 

 

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