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Faye Feldragonne

Question 4 Skirt Designers (but anyone can weigh in).

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As a designer I think a lot about permissions. Also, as someone who likes to modify, I like that option when I buy.

Now, this question is about skirts. I have made my skirts in various ways.

1. No mod with a resizer

2. Mod

3 No mod.

There is no doubt to me that people need to adjust prim skirts, but the rezzers just make the prim smaller or larger and doesn't allow things like lateral shifts to prevent poking out, etc. 

I have purchased many gowns and from expensive designers. Some have no modify, some don't. So there seems to be different thoughts. 

As I grow as a designer and get better, this question almost always pops in my mind when I boxing up a gown.

I no longer use the script to change sizes b/c we don't need more scripts running, and I have for the most part been selling nearly all my gowns with modify, copy but no transfer. What are your feelings about this?

I know that some worry that others will take their information to reproduce their skirts, but in all honesty, most people have their own vision for their gowns, so that's not a worry for me. But are there any other reasons to lock down prim skirts? And why do some do it and others not? Is it really a personal decision or is there any other worries?

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you can always charge a few linden more and have both versions. I think the resizer script prevents people from shifting things around. So you could have the option of having a mod version and a resizer version.

 

Or you can include a note card instructing how to put in the resizer script into contents after they have shifted things around etc. 

 

Honestly I don't see a happy medium.  You could put a notecard with the size of the waist and hips it fits best with as well.  Yes this would be an excellent project for a scripter to make a resizer that allows some shifting etc with the script still inside.

 

What I would do is resize it a couple of times and then see what happens after you remove the script and see if a friend can remove the script once its done resizing. Once that script is gone they should be able to shift things around right?

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While I understand resizers are better than nothing for people who don't know how to edit well, I won't buy no mod clothes with just a resizer.  I can do a much better job, and do it faster, editing them myself to get a perfect fit.  My avi is smaller than the average and not as big in the bust and hips as most are.

The best solution is to offer them mod but use a resizer that can be removed  That way both camps are happy. 

To me, offering no mod clothes is somewhat ridiculous.  It does not stop anyone that wants to copy your things at all.  Some designers do it because they don't want anyone 'messing' with their clothes.  Even the best and most expensive RL designers can't do that and its somewhat arrogant to me for SL designers to do it.  Its like saying my designs and the contruction of the prim parts are perfect. 

There have been many times I've bought expensive clothes in SL that I love, but the prim parts need a slight tint because they don't match the layers exactly in different light since light reflects off prims differently than layer clothes, and also at different times of day.(yes I'm that picky)  I also sometimes like to tint the layers some to get a color that is unique and different from the standard, basic colors you mostly see or to match other clothes I mix and match with them better.

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Chelle Petlyakov wrote:

My clothing is sold copy/no mod, except all prim pieces are copy/modifyable. I do not include a resize script and will help a customer fit their purchase if asked.

I think this is a perfect option. And I've done this too. 

If someone purchases something of mine that isn't fitting correctly I can fix it for them. When I was a noob, I remember having real troubles with prim skirts and borking them in my effort to make them work. This is a good thread because it's giving me ideas about my skirts. I think I will include a removeable script going forward with mod on skirt and no mod on the other items. I wouldn't think anyone would mod a pant or shirt because it blurs the lines the designers draw, but I could be wrong!

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

 

The best solution is to offer them mod but use a resizer that can be removed  That way both camps are happy. 

 

I absolutely agree.  This is the most convenient thing for the consumer.  I am finished buying no mod clothes.  I want them to be copyable so I can always keep a backup copy in case I mess them up.

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I don't buy clothing if the prims are no mod, at least not on purpose.  My shape is so drastically curvy that using a resize script to fit prims takes forever and rarely gives satisfactory results.  That said, I have had great success with getting a mod copy of an item from a creator instead, usualy just takes a notecard explaining the problem. 

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 I am taking a different path here, I sell mod (often with resize script always deletable) and trans.

If they make a mistake, send it back and I will replace... (or custom fit if needed) and No copy.

I do not use venders and I do not have gift options so, this works out well for me and customers seem to appreciate the trans..and I am fast to respond to customers and most know that. ; )

Also to me, If someone buys it wears it a few times and wants to pass it to a friend or an alt.. it wont be a  problem...who am I to tell them they cant pass it to a friend? I would in RL, do it all the time when I buy something I liked in store but wore a few times and found out I dont really like it.. pass it to a friend.

 

It is arrogant and I totally agree to not have a clothing item no mod is a mistake.. I know some sell the prim parts mod but the clothing layers no mod, which what happens if I want to wear a pair of pants with boots that have a flair? I cant fix that.. so I have to buy another pair of pants to wear boots with?

 

One of my biggest frustrations is a inventory full of outfits I would love to pass to an alt (or friend) but I cant... I seriously hate no trans and myself I wont buy clothing unless its mod. I change my shape so much that a no mod would be useless to me.

 

 As an experiment I put a few outfits up, one mod copy one mod trans and after a week or so, I judged the amount of each I sold and this resulted in more trans items being purchased.. So, maybe its a good idea to try that yourself, see what your customers want.

 Good luck.

 

Mesh clothing is a whole other bowl of cherries......................... no use for mod on those.

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Tarina Sewell wrote:

 I am taking a different path here, I sell mod (often with resize script always deletable) and trans.

If they make a mistake, send it back and I will replace... (or custom fit if needed) and No copy.

I do not use venders and I do not have gift options so, this works out well for me and customers seem to appreciate the trans..and I am fast to respond to customers and most know that. ; )

Also to me, If someone buys it wears it a few times and wants to pass it to a friend or an alt.. it wont be a  problem...who am I to tell them they cant pass it to a friend? I would in RL, do it all the time when I buy something I liked in store but wore a few times and found out I dont really like it.. pass it to a friend.

 

It is arrogant and I totally agree to not have a clothing item no mod is a mistake.. I know some sell the prim parts mod but the clothing layers no mod, which what happens if I want to wear a pair of pants with boots that have a flair? I cant fix that.. so I have to buy another pair of pants to wear boots with?

 

One of my biggest frustrations is a inventory full of outfits I would love to pass to an alt (or friend) but I cant... I seriously hate no trans and myself I wont buy clothing unless its mod. I change my shape so much that a no mod would be useless to me.

 

 As an experiment I put a few outfits up, one mod copy one mod trans and after a week or so, I judged the amount of each I sold and this resulted in more trans items being purchased.. So, maybe its a good idea to try that yourself, see what your customers want.

 Good luck.

 

Mesh clothing is a whole other bowl of cherries......................... no use for mod on those.

When I've sold items as transferable, they end up in some elses shop, not passed to a friend. I, personally, don't like my items sold in other stores, and sometimes repackaged.

There is an issue with copy botting and using modifable permissions. It is my understanding that this is why some designers do not allow modifable clothing.

It's done for protection not arrogance as far as I've heard.  

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no mod does NOT prevent but rather encourages copybotting since if a merchant is unwilling to help but has the customers money, its one way to be able to use the product which has been paid for.

 

permissions mean nothing to copybot process and believing otherwise is naive.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

no mod does NOT prevent but rather encourages copybotting since if a merchant is unwilling to help but has the customers money, its one way to be able to use the product which has been paid for.

 

permissions mean nothing to copybot process and believing otherwise is naive.

Why would that be naive rather than just not known by someone?

When you say merchant is unwilling to help...do you mean at all? I'm not sure the conversation was originally posed for those kinds of merchants. I had only heard about this "no modify thing" in regards to copybotting. I allow modifable on most of my items. I think there are a few that might still be out there but if someone wanted to modify them, I would help them.

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Fay Feldragonne wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:

no mod does NOT prevent but rather encourages copybotting since if a merchant is unwilling to help but has the customers money, its one way to be able to use the product which has been paid for.

 

Permissions mean nothing to copybot process and believing otherwise is naive.

Why would that be naive rather than just not known by someone?

When you say merchant is unwilling to help...do you mean at all? I'm not sure the conversation was originally posed for those kinds of merchants. I had only heard about this "no modify thing" in regards to copybotting. I allow modifable on most of my items. I think there are a few that might still be out there but if someone wanted to modify them, I would help them.

It is true that making something no mod is absolutely no protection from copybotting.  The viewers used circumvent the permission system.   Logic tells you that if they can make a copy of an item they don't own or that is no copy, a no mod  permission is no obstacle at all for them. 

Yes, there are some very unaccomodating and rude merchants out there.  In my earlier years i bought clothing that was no mod and had problems that I knew I could fix if they were mod. When I contacted some of the creators and politely asked for help either I got very little or was flat out told they didn't have 'time'.  When I explained that I could fix the problem myself if they gave me a mod version, they refused very rudely.  I never bought anything again from them, and told friends of my experience.  I hoped that these were rare but as time went on and I bought more things I found out it wasn't.  That's when I decided to not buy any more no mod clothes for the most part.  The rare exception is from the designers whose work I just love, that I have been a long time customer of,  and that I know are helpful and willing to work with me until I'm satisfied  from past personal experience.

 

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:


Sassy Romano wrote:

no mod does NOT prevent but rather encourages copybotting since if a merchant is unwilling to help but has the customers money, its one way to be able to use the product which has been paid for.

 

permissions mean nothing to copybot process and believing otherwise is naive.

Why would that be naive rather than just not known by someone?

When you say merchant is unwilling to help...do you mean at all? I'm not sure the conversation was originally posed for those kinds of merchants. I had only heard about this "no modify thing" in regards to copybotting. I allow modifable on most of my items. I think there are a few that might still be out there but if someone wanted to modify them, I would help them.

Because there is absolutely no shortage of information available via Google that provides the information that copybot viewers ignore permissions.  (Probably ignorant would have been a more appropriate word)

Yes, completely unwilling to help, in one case when I asked for mod, even though it was advertised as modify in the Marketplace listing, the merchant laughed in IM then banned me from the sim.

Another who no longer has my business, didn't seem to accept that the resize script behaviour of changing size not length only was my issue no matter how many times it was articulated.  For ballgowns, there's simply no point buying a long dress with hem detail if it's 2 feet below the floor and changing overall size just makes it look rather silly.  In this case, the merchant felt that I would be happy with a dress train that was half a metre above the floor.

I wasn't but it's ok, she got to keep my money too but no more.

Thank you Faye for offering modify, add a resizer if you wish is always my view but leave it mod.

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Modifying can be more than a script to copybot it. Modifying means your graphic design, preferences on your skirts are open for anyone to examine, and use for the creation of other skirts. It's not a direct copy but you can get size/rotations/and features this way. 

 

 

 

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

Modifying can be more than a script to copybot it. Modifying means your graphic design, preferences on your skirts are open for anyone to examine, and use for the creation of other skirts. It's not a direct copy but you can get size/rotations/and features this way. 

  

Yes indeed but then that's the choice, having customers that buy things that they can fit or having things that they won't wear because they don't fit and don't buy again.

I encourage modification of mine, hasn't stopped them being sold.  After all, there are so many others to write down prim parameters from too.

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