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[Update] - Last Names Roundtable -- Comments


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On 03-01-2012 04:15 PM, Rodvik wrote:

Hey folks, firstly thanks for all the discussion in this thread on my my.secondlife profile. I had more to say on this than would fit in there, so I’ll post it here in the forums but will link back so we can continue the conversation there.

It’s kind of morphed into a sort of unofficial roundtable discussion. It’s been enjoyable and even though this one has not brought about a change many of you would like its been a good process. Low key and direct feedback off the radar, I like that.

So when it comes to last names, I have spent a lot of time going through all your comments and chatting with the team here. I learnt a lot. Firstly, as I already knew identity is very important, and the last name issue is extremely polarizing. What I didn’t know was how big a negative impact it used to have on new users signing up (the data is startling at how much friction it added). Folks just wanted to create their own name; they became even more annoyed if there was a pre-done last name that could fit but that had already been taken. The namespace hijacking issue was not solved by pre done last names.

But that’s the downside. The upside? It’s just great to be able to have a last name as your master identity. Rather than “horationelson” people want “Horatio Nelson.” Not least because although display names give you complete freedom to choose whatever you want, we still reference “.resident” in a few places.

This is just the functional benefit though, I would argue an even greater benefit is the bonding those fixed last names gave people. The shared last name kinda made you “family”, it was a unique system, and I don’t like losing unique systems. Tangled up in this is something that has been gnawing away at me for some time. (...)

[Off-topic part removed]

But back to the matter at hand. As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont.

However what we will be doing is adding in at least one and maybe more special characters like a dash when you signup so you can make a more normal looking name.  So you can have “horatio-nelson” for example, which is impossible now. Work will begin on this as it slots into the task list.

Secondly we will be taking steps to remove more places where the dreaded “resident” last name appears inworld. If you have any places where you see it often that we might have missed it would be good to hear.

Thirdly I will be kicking off another monthly roundtable (probably Monday) to chat about getting that family/frontier feel back with an eye to some area-like project, although some of the early ideas (like you get to pick a prefixed last name after you are a resident for say six months) can also be chatted about.

Thanks again for all these comments and discussion. It’s a pity that the first one couldn’t come up with a clean solution that solved all the world’s problems (or cats’ problems) but it was valuable nevertheless.

------------------------------------------------------

No comment allowed, so... here we go!

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(I removed the part about the loss of the old frontier feeling which would have derailed the thread.)

I must say that I am not even remotely concerned about the whole last name issue, I already have a "real" name --and a stock of "real name" alts. However, I deeply sympathize with all the members of the Resident family.

Still, it seems to me that the whole issue was sumed up into the phrase: Bring back the last names.

Not everybody would be happy but that would have been a step in the right direction, i.e. to undo the big mistake of the previous management.

In SL, "real names" have always been "First_name Last_name". When I created my acount, I was midly satisfied with the choice of last names but I didn't think a second it was weird or anything. That's the way it was. And the very important thing is that is was obvious that this name would be visible to others. There was no need for big signs with huge red letters as it seems to be needed nowadays.

I wasn't 100% satisfied but now I wouldn't change anything. It's my name and it is so from the very beginning: the login page. (One more reason for me to hate V2/V3 clients which slaughter my name into lower case with a dot in the middle.)

I usually happily sit on any tradition but this one should be maintained, reinforced, even celebrated. The "real names" are something that set SL apart from the rest. The new-comers now have to deal with a login name, a somewhat arbitrary name (with an unpleasant touch of noobiness) imposed to them for a reason they can't understand, and a display name. They will never be able to feel the attachment we, old-timers, feel towards our unique name.

Bringing back the last names would mean to restore a tradition that has existed since long before the previous management. It isn't the miracle solution but anything is much better than nothing... because the new management wants to screw the system in its very special way to be remembered for eons of internet years. (Did I say that out loud?)

 

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I don't think the "dash" is going to be an appealing solution.

Wonder how hard it would be to have pre determined or self chosen last names . But give users the choice of a middle name "nickname" to enable their ability to have duplicated names. John Smith could be John Ingle Smith ... Or Dilbert Dilweg could be Dilbert Freakin Dilweg

You will always have the delima of duplicated names, even with the current system. Having a middle name aspect, broadens the horizen for more flexability with names and keeps the "family" aspect of the community

 

I think a lot of users would use the middle name to reflect their regular screen "online" name, without having to alter it because it had been duplicated. That would open up billions of possiblities and combos for names with less fear of duplication

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Considering that there are still sites giving out last names i am pretty sickened by all of this (someone on tateru's blog confirmed this with a recently made surname AV). The system is there, it is working and can be simply turned back on.

 

How can this in any way be good PR? All this hype, even grand sounding "watch this space" posts (several) and now "no, we wont do it".

 

Two lindens are sacked, quarterly and annual reports are stopped, third party viewer issues are still simmering and now this. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

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Chronometria wrote:

Considering that there are still sites giving out last names i am pretty sickened by all of this (someone on tateru's blog confirmed this with a recently made surname AV). The system is there, it is working and can be simply turned back on.

 

How can this in any way be good PR? All this hype, even grand sounding "watch this space" posts (several) and now "no, we wont do it".

 

Two lindens are sacked, quarterly and annual reports are stopped, third party viewer issues are still simmering and now this. If it wasn't so sad it would be funny.

That's hilarious.  I wonder if Rodvik was aware that the old naming system was still operational.  If he didn't know, then I guess someone at the Lab hated the old system enough to keep that little tidbit of information from him.  

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On 03-01-2012 04:15 PM, Rodvik wrote:

As I promised if we couldn’t figure out a way that was a win/win for folks who want complete freedom vs. a list of last names, we wouldn’t do it. We couldn’t, so we wont.


Hmm.. Rodvik, that's somewhat lame excuse for not doing it. According to that logic you should pull the plug and shut down the whole grid, right? You never can please all whatever you do. The likes and dislikes are so varied.

How about making a poll on the viewer login screen? In an effort to please the majority? A simple question there, something like:

"Do you want the original FirstName/LastName feature back?"
□ Yes
□ No

Another question could be:
"Would you like to be able to change once your, possibly silly, Username to a nicer one?"
□ Yes
□ No

Then do what the majority wants. Things need not to be made very complicated even if they could be made so. Not doing something because you cannot please all is very strange. It's impossible to please all. It's possible to please the majority.


Maybe it was so that once again we banged our heads against the Linden Lab wall in vain? You listened to us, you commented, then you do exactly as you want to do it, dismissing all what we hoped for?
sAng_badmood.gif

 

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Coby Foden wrote:

 

...Maybe it was so that once again we banged our heads against the Linden Lab wall in vain? You listened to us, you commented, then you do exactly as you want to do it, dismissing all what we hoped for?

sAng_badmood.gif

 

Standard operating procedure for LL:

  • Concoct silly, half-baked idea internally (by people who really don't use/understand the product)
  • Announce said silly idea via Twitter, SLU or any medium other than LL official communication portal
  • Silly idea finds its way back to SL forums
  • Residents start a forum threadnaught debating the pros/cons of silly idea. A majority of residents produce logical and substantive reasons why silly idea is silly and should be canned.
  • Someone at LL decides they'd best pretend to care about the residents' opinions and says, "Great feedback. We appreciate it, keep it coming, we're listening"
  • LL proceeds to implement silly idea as originally presented anyway

At least that's what I've observed since 2006. I guess you have to admire the Lab's consistency, huh?

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bleh..

i knew there was some bad vibe coming from that escape hatch in the first announcement..

they had me worreid about groups when they jumped to 42 and said that if they end up creating problems they will take them away..

i was waiting for months for them to come back saying they would be going back to 25 groups..

every once in awhile the thought creeps back in that one day they will snatch them..

but i'll never totally relax on it LL..so there will not be total victory on your part when you do and i say..

i knew it!! \o/

 

 

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I just came to a realization that would explain a lot. We think of our SL last names as a combination of letters that can be put together in any combination, but it's very possible that isn't what they actually ARE. It's very possible that they're stored as a comparatively small, fixed number, so, for istance, an old last name like "Song" may be encoded as the binary equivalent of 0117 and "Tennyson", which was one of hte last ones, could be 8563. These numbers would be looked up from a list in the viewer to display the words we're used to seeing as last names.This would explain why Linden Lab doesn't do what would seem to a human (but not a computer) to be the logical thing, which would be to enter our own words as last names. This may be something that the touchy-feely people at Linden Lab (like Rodvik) may not have been aware of themselfves.

If this is the case that value field will eventually run out of room when the value hits the largest possible number that the software allows. This would explain why there was talk of Second Life "running out otf last names" and why it was suggested that accounts would need to be six months old to get a last name, which would amount to rationing. That would mean that the lists of possible new names that people were suggesting to help Linden Lab's "creativity problem" would be useless as useless parts of a boar hog. The problem wouldn't be in the words, it woudl be in the numbers and In order to add more room for last name values everything that involves that data field would need to be changed, and to add true custom last names the change would be enormous.

This makes a lot of sense to me. It would be nice if it were confirmed by someone at Linden Lab, but, well, you know.

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Except that numbers are exponential and, although I am IN NO WAY a developer or coder, it seems they could change the line of code that keeps it at a 4 digit numerical code, into a 5 or 6 or 200 digit numerical code.

Doesn't it?

 

The bottom line is, My FIRST and LAST name works when I log in. So does hundreds of thousands of others. I don't see anything broken here except the good people of Linden Lab.

I get a very strong feeling they are only failing to implement the return of last names to counter the huge influx of new alts that would invariably happen over night.

They don't want any more alts. They want new accounts (naturally). I think if this is the case, if they look at the bigger picture, there is still no question last names should return. Yes there would be a ton of new alts that only get used once in awhile. But -- in the long run more people would want to join and *key word* STAY in SL if they had a normal name.

And yes I couldn't agree more that we deserve some specifics as to why this is such a difficult task. Just give an explanation Rod "Linden" Humble. Our smallish RL brains can handle it, I promise.

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I think the simplest, "win/win" solution is to provide a web page at which a person with a single name (or with the last name "Resident" -- however you want to view it) can choose a last name for themself.

It doesn't need to be part of the sign up process. It can be something that people do after, if they know or hear or ask about it.

That way, Rodvik keeps his single-name signup simple, and people who want last names can get them.

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The sooner LL do cut back the number of groups the better....then perhaps we might actually get group chat working I cant understand what anyone would want 40 groups for anyway...Group chat didnt work before the number was upped to 40 so what was the answer ...pour more water into the leaky bucket.....

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  • 5 months later...

Hello to all,

First I want to apologize for my English.. Well hopefully any of you could understand Russian to make it easier.. Anways..

Hope you guys won't mind if I join the thread. Well, this is my first post and might be the last as well. According to Ossians reply, I totally agree.

There is a lot of different stories, articles, explainations about the last name thingy. And now one will be able to tell what is the exact story or that big secret about it. When they have released second life there was last name options, which means it was planned from the very beginning, then by time they disabled it for some reason, and again it must be planned. I don't see any reason for doing that, even with what LL said in some threads in the forums.

Now some others and LL parties are saying they are working around it or thinking how to bring them back or what so ever. Still don't know what is that work around they are talking about tho.

It is simple as 1, 2, 3 steps.

All the SL alternatives such as avination.com etc... still has a last name option. I don't see any problems.. I really see that the last name issue is just causing more problems, and more than anyone else can imagine, I bet even that LL don't know anything about what is going on out there.

I know that RegAPIS has been disabled from 99% of the second and/or third party registration portals, 1% still out there and they do work!! The thing that LL and members doesn't know, there are also ppl out there are trading and selling these names! And the name can come up to $100 and $200 and even more, it depends how much the person can really pay to get a last name account to get in to SL!!

That is against the policy and terms of use. And of course 50% of these illegal transactions and off grids or sims contain frauds, ppl pay and transfer money to get an ID and they never get it.

From my point of view, I think the key is with the LL ONLY! They need to bring them back to provend a lot of troubles with the new residents and as I have mentioned.. It is simple as 1,2,3! All what they need is just 2 ppl from their team, a web developer/programmer and a designer.

Step 1: The developer will re-enable the disabled part in the registration form on SL website (API SETTINGS)

Step 2: The developer has to integrate a module or a plugin that will show up under any of the members/residents account, no matter with an actual old name or with a new resident name, which will give an option to any of the members to choose a last name with a warning that it will be final and cannot be changed, or just leave it as resident.

Step 3: The designer will make that module pretty with some css coding in that found spot under the members account!

Thats it! Done!

Unless there is something else that makes them don't want to bring them back. Well, I have brains to think, and eyes to see as well ears to hear. When I use all of my senses, everythings points at LL!!! Maybe that was another planned plan from the very beginning, they knew that members and newer residents will love that last name option, they have collected several millions members in thier virtual world, and more are coming, they decided to stop them, so the fire will start and the whole world will talk about it, at the same time the Custom Name are still there!!?? How come? Was that planned too? a $500.00 Setup Fee + $500.00 = $1000.00 when they make you your custom name + $500.00 every year to keep that name's ownership? Complicated and still don't understand..

Anyways.. Hopefully that story will end, so every one and party can rest in piece. And sorry if I did distrubed any of you guys

 

Regards,
NATTARIOUS

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  • 1 year later...

my thing is that when i had made my first account back in 2008 i had make a name with a last name being yuhari. because of the type of computer i had at the time it was unable to handle the game so i then in return took a break from it for a few years now that i have returned and attempted to make a new account due to the fact all info i had to log in the first one had been lost on the old computer i.e email password etc meaning i had to start completely fresh with all new emails. i contacted LL to see if i could recover that account with that last name and because i was wrong on one part of it i could not get it back. I really do think that we can bring the last name option back it gives people a sence of individuality and even the option to chose a so called "family name " if you have a few friends wanting to join. with me now having the resident on the last of my name it someone singles us all out as to a majority of the SL vetrans feeling that we are different, bad people out to take accounts, or we dont know anything just to add. but i along with others i know for sure would love to have this feature back.

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Bring Back Last Names!.png


I remember i made this sign a couple months ago, for people to show some protest. But only a few people wanted it.

That's what i love about americans: In RL they show great unity, and they can protest... watch out! And they won't give up until they get what they want.

But in SL? Forget it!  Unity? Uncle Who? Land of the free? yeah right. One click and people are either blocked or banned.

Don't get me wrong, but its true. SL is so much different from RL. And i don't think that last names will be coming back either because many people dont want to pick a last name they dont really like.

I wouldn't want a prefixed last name either, but i'd rather be able to make up my own (and without the Resident). Look at other worlds like Inworlds, you can make up your own first and last name there. I think thats better.

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