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what is the master plan with this mesh thing?


MoiselleErin Teardrop
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It gets thrown around lately.

I am on a V2 viewer so I have not seen it except photos.

I have a techy geek friend who said with a mesh viewer, count on getting 1/2 the FPS that I get now. Of course my computer struggles with V2 or even V1 as it is. cutting my FPS by half and I am pretty much done.

 

Anyways, is mesh just something that they are working out the bugs but one day will be the same graphic normal burden as say sculpts?

I know say like alphas replaced invisiprims and sculpts replaced SOME normal prims

So is this mesh going to be the new SL or just one more option for stuff? Starting to wonder if I should even count on being in much longer if this lag-inducing mesh makes things slower than what it already is.

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I get better FPS with mesh items around me than with sculpties or prims...

Your techie friend is full of it...

(Feeling super snarky right now thanks to R Linden making a cop-out on us all right as the work day came to an end today... but still, your techie friend is not well informed.)

 

Of course experiences can vary depending on system.

 

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I get worse performance on a V2 viewer, but I don't that has to do with mesh, necessarily. I think there was a lot that was changed in/added to the code, most likely. It's important to remember that V2/V3 are different from V1 based ONLY on mesh capability. (And, in fact, many V1-based viewers now support mesh.) If you're worried about performance, perhaps you could first try a V1 viewer with mesh.

 

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Some people have jumped on mesh as the biggest thing to hit SL and think everything should be replaced with mesh.  However, even the Linden's have said that mesh isn't going to replace everything, just like sculpts didn't.  It will just be another option in the building/creating toolbox.  So far, there isn't a lot on the market compared to other things.  However as time goes on you will probably see more mesh items around. 

Mesh is supposedly less demanding on the servers for rendering, but it isn't necessarily going to save prims depending on the item. However  it may be that mesh builds will be able to have more detail and be designs that are not possible now.

I run one of the more advanced mesh viewers and a new high end computer.  I haven't noticed any real improvement in performance with mesh.  I have asked a lot of people that I personally know are RL pro techs about this and have had various opinions on it. It is true that mesh is more efficient in virtual reality worlds where content is limited to items created by pro's that know what they are doing or mesh content has to be submitted for approval before being allowed on the grid.  But SL is different.  The content here is a lot more numerous and varied and so much of what is available is created by non professionals and it isn't vetted for efficiency. 

Cost is another big factor to how fast it will be broadly adapted.  It cost a lot more to make things in mesh.  You need advanced 3D software to make it, you will have to invest a lot of time learning how to create with it if you don't already know how, and it cost a lot more to upload it into SL than anything else does. 

How much and how fast you will see mesh become the next big thing will depend on the market.  The market will be driven by how good the creators get with using it in terms of design and efficiency, whether it really is more efficient in terms of saving prims, if there is a noticeable positive effect on performance and the cost compared to non mesh items.  So it remains to be seen I think, although mesh is here to stay and you will see more of it.

If I were you I wouldn't jump ship yet.  In the meantime, try some of the V1 based viewers that have mesh capability.  Some of my friends with older computers have had good results with them.

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

I think she was using FS version of V3.

So is it LL version of V3 that might actually perform better than V2?

Honestly, I had never heard of mesh until V3 came out and builders started making some things out of it.

 

Anymore at this stage of the game you have to check for yourself. 

The general consensus is that over all V3 (and V3 based viewers) will run slower than V2 but for the majority the difference will be negligible.

But there is still a large percentage of people where the difference can be sizable.

You can see extremes like Pussycat who gets a big improvement with V3 or like me who sees a 75% performance drop with any viewer based on V3 code.  So no one can really make an absolute statement.

Which leaves people in the position that they just need to try and then use what works best for them.

 

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

I think she was using FS version of V3.

So is it LL version of V3 that might actually perform better than V2?

Honestly, I had never heard of mesh until V3 came out and builders started making some things out of it.

 

Actually at this point. Yes.

Firestorm is based on pre 3.2 - it does not yet have FUI. FUI for them is a major hurdle because it was a recoding of the UI... but that is also the breakpoint where V3 got its distinctive improved look over V2, and boost to both stability and speed.

Firestorm is working on getting this into their client. But until you read a set of release notes that says 'now has FUI' - it will still be behind to about October.

 

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Mesh is supposedly less demanding on the servers for rendering, but it isn't necessarily going to
save prims depending
on the item. However  it may be that mesh builds will be able to have more detail and be designs that are not possible now.

See the first link in my sig. :)

Its not the item that will determine whether or not mesh saves prims.

It will be the -size- you rez it at. So really only 'to-scale' folks will notice a prim savings for mesh, but that savings can be extreme; and they'll only notice this with items they can rez at their scale.

Over-scale folks, well, they can still benefit from mesh clothes - but rezzed items will hurt their tier...

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

It will be the -size- you rez it at. So really only 'to-scale' folks will notice a prim savings for mesh, but that savings can be extreme; and they'll only notice this with items they can rez at their scale.

Over-scale folks, well, they can still benefit from mesh clothes - but rezzed items will hurt their tier...

 

I am already aware of how scale effects mesh.  However since most avatars are not 'in scale' with RL, this will be an issue.  I don't think this will ever change unless a change is instituted across the board all at one time.  The problem is that scaling an avatar to RL makes them much smaller comparatively speaking, and who wants to be among the first and be a shrimp compared to everyone else? 

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Seems funny at this point - sculpts were suppose to be the be-all end-all. Theyt do save prims but are harder to make and some have this box around them that is weird.That and sometimes forget fine-tuning editing the way you can with an object of several standard prims.

So then mesh comes along but causes some users horrid lag. Plus the upload cost is greater (isn't it like L$40 per upload or something)

Seems like everything being said in this thread is the same things that were once said about sculpts.

I guess then the choice is STILL - more prims or more lag? Cannot have your cake and eat it too?

 

So it is cool. I won't worry as much about it.

SHOOT - one would THINK that after 3.5 years in SL, I would quit worrying about every stupid tech fad that comes along.

Folks, I do wish to thank you all for the feedback :)

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

It will be the -size- you rez it at. So really only 'to-scale' folks will notice a prim savings for mesh, but that savings can be extreme; and they'll only notice this with items they can rez at their scale.

Over-scale folks, well, they can still benefit from mesh clothes - but rezzed items will hurt their tier...

 

I am already aware of how scale effects mesh.  However since most avatars are not 'in scale' with RL, this will be an issue.  I don't think this will ever change unless a change is instituted across the board all at one time.  The problem is that scaling an avatar to RL makes them much smaller comparatively speaking, and who wants to be among the first and be a shrimp compared to everyone else? 

Anyone who wants double prim land for the cost of single prim land.

- Folks are 'to-scale' are not all that rare either. We're not the majority, but we're not even uncommon anymore.

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Amethyst Jetaime wrote:


Pussycat Catnap wrote:

It will be the -size- you rez it at. So really only 'to-scale' folks will notice a prim savings for mesh, but that savings can be extreme; and they'll only notice this with items they can rez at their scale.

Over-scale folks, well, they can still benefit from mesh clothes - but rezzed items will hurt their tier...

 

I am already aware of how scale effects mesh.  However since most avatars are not 'in scale' with RL, this will be an issue.  I don't think this will ever change unless a change is instituted across the board all at one time.  The problem is that scaling an avatar to RL makes them much smaller comparatively speaking, and who wants to be among the first and be a shrimp compared to everyone else? 

Anyone who wants double prim land for the cost of single prim land.

- Folks are 'to-scale' are not all that rare either. We're not the majority, but we're not even uncommon anymore.

To clarify, I agree with what you say about scale.  My avatar is in RL scale.  When i joined SL in 2006, I made my avatar based on my RL scale.  Granted it was a bit taller than a number of females on SL at the time, but I am taller in RL than most females.  But over the years, newer avatars have gotten taller and bigger.  Now I'm small compared to most women.  I think that men were the first to go big and tall and the women followed so they'd 'fit' men better when using couple animations.  Human nature being what it is makes going the opposite direction difficult for these people.

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Well, at the moment I certainly will not be buying any mesh products. I used to be able to see mesh items correctly but with the latest viewers I can't, even after updating my gpu driver. When discussing mesh last night at the club I go to, a friend wore a mesh avatar and he totally disappeared (apart from non-mesh clothes) both to me and others there. He then wore a normal av with mesh clothes and he looked weirdly distorted with his arms and legs looking like Lowry's stickmen. If Linden Lab has a master plan, I hope it's that everyone can actually see mesh.

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since the general view of SL is looking down as if a God or something, what does it matter about the "scale" or height of avatars? It isn't like RL where we are on the ground plane most of the time.

One would think cause people can be anything in SL and if they want to be 7 feet tall it boosts their ego but when everyone else is 7 feet tall, it doesn't matter then.

Aside being close to other avatar heights for physical interaction, the concept of wanting to be a certain height from an ego standpoint is lost on me. I could not even guess how tall mine is but I think the height scale is set at 40 maybe? I have no issues with my height in RL so I don't even worry about it in SL either.

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Mesh enables much greater realism in some things, like cars, loose-fitting clothes and perhaps furniture.  In time I think it will become the norm in SL.  Prims will still be useful for making basic things like dancefloors or simple buildings, though. And I can't see that mesh underwear, for instance, would be any more realistic than the 'painted-on' type.  

At the moment it's more complicated to make and texture things in mesh than using prims.  I've tried it, making shapes in Google SketchUp and importing them, and was surprised to see that they worked.  But to make more complex things I'd need to learn all over again.

Why not download the latest LL  Beta viewer, which has mesh?  That's what I normally use.  That way your V2 should remain intact and you'd have the choice.

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MoiselleErin Teardrop wrote:

since the general view of SL is looking down as if a God or something, what does it matter about the "scale" or height of avatars? It isn't like RL where we are on the ground plane most of the time.

It didn't matter until mesh, unless you wanted proper rather than cartoon proportions.

But look at my blog entry on this - currently first item in my sig.

If you take an item made for a 7-8 foot avatar in SL - pretty common, and scale it to a 'Real Life scale' avatar...

- Its prim cost will go -DOWN- by up to 50%.

 

Prim cost of mesh items is based on the size you rez them at.

- so the smaller you make them, the less prims they cost.

 

Arguably, in a year or two, we might see folks making avatars at a smaller than RL-scale in order to squeeze even more benefit out of this. But the mesh breaks down a bit the further you go under 5', just as it does the further you go above 6' (above 6' and women are forced to have t-rex arms).

 

In past Penny Patton has argued that smaller scale meant you had more space on your land. Now, for mesh - it ALSO means you have more prims on your land. A double set of benefits. Penny's argument appeals to asthetics and 'not feeling cramped' on a "small lot". But this new argument is raw straight out numbers.

 

 

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