REALLY Sick of discrimination against child avatars

[Tamara Artis]

If I see a kid all alone on the street, mall or anywhere rl I would make sure to check is the kid lost, call the police, move the kid out of the street! Kids should not wander all alone! RL or SL. Its in our nature to protect kids, the world is full of bad people wanting to hurt those innocent little kids. So whenever a stranger bans you from his land, be gratefull!

Now pls answer me few questions..

. If you rp a child, why do you wander all alone around places that aren't built for kids??? What kind of a trouble are you hoping to find there? On "abandoned place, no adult content whatsoever" I mean, rl kids tend to do that, but they are not aware of the consequences, you are adult person behind that kid avi and you are fully aware what you are doing. 

And I can understand you being "so sick of moderate sims with no sexual or adult content", happened to me tons of times!, found a great beach only to discover its not nude! Not even a hidden cave with two balls lol

Is it hard to spend your free RL time in SL, playing as a kid, and being frustrated and discriminated "dozen times a week". What makes you do something like that if its that bad?

Lets admit it, you're a bad kid that only wants to find some trouble lol

[Celestiall Nightfire]

Some people don't want to be around children.  In RL there are plenty of people who do not want to be around children, and they choose to go to adult places, restaurants, clubs, bars, and adult organizations.  In RL when adults choose to go to these places, they know they are not going to encounter children. 

Yet, in SL it is not clear exactly where those places are, as a "child" avatar can be adult verified and go anywhere.  Thus, in SL those who do not wish to be around children, must use other means.  So, in SL land owners, sim owners, or even just people who are out and about, have to use the tools given to them in SL to stay away from children.  (if that is how they want to play their SL) 

It's no different than any number of the Lesbian clubs that are in SL, which forbid men, and only allow female avatars.   Or for sims that only allow humans, as they are role play sims that are set for an era or fantasy that has only humans.

If you're not capable of understanding that people are different, and just as you wish to play a child avatar, there are others, who do not wish to be around child avatars.   So, who's wishes win?   The one's who are paying for the land, and that make the rules.  Go where you're welcome, and let others do what they wish.  It's that simple. 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

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kiskoshka wrote:

 I am so sick of moderate sims with no sexual or adult content whatsoever

banning child avatars,

either because of their own ignorance and prejudice, or because they don't understand the LL TOS at all. Has anyone else experienced this? I seriously feel unwelcome. My "alt" is a premium account - why am I paying to be treated like dirt??

---

 

You clearly do not understand the TOS.   Anyone who owns land in SL can ban who they want. 

So, someone who owns land could have the following avatars types of avatars banned:   Females, males, robots, furries, dragons, vampires, and children.   This land owner might only allow Mermaids and Mermen into their sim.   

Not a Mermaid or Merman?   Then you're not welcome!   All of that would be perfectly fine under the TOS. 

See how it works?   It's nothing personal.  It is the will of the other person to decide who they choose to associate.  Your desire to go places, cannot supersede their will, to not have you there.

Now, on public Linden Lab owned land, all are welcome. 

 

[Dahlia Endsleigh]

Child avitars don't really weird me out on their own, but when they claim to be of a certain age that an RL kid would be and "tawk wike dis" It makes it hard for me to take them seriously. Now I do not run or ignore a child avi, that is their business to be a child avi, I do however question what makes them desire to be a child in a virtual world that is known for two things: Shopping and sex. Again that is their perogotive. Is it really any different than people shunning Michael Jackson for wanting to relive his childhood? Not really. I find it really hard to believe they are a person wanting to capture the innocence of their youth, when they dress like whores.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Sounds like a good day to bring "Little Immy" out of the deep recesses of my inventory. =^-^=

Don't MAKE me cute y'all to frigg'n death!

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

Sounds like a good day to bring "Little Immy" out of the deep recesses of my inventory. =^-^=

Don't

MAKE

me cute y'all to frigg'n death!

---

Pffft, bring it on, Immy. I used to be a drowlet. we can go annoy people together.

[Rene Erlanger]

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Dahlia Endsleigh wrote:

Child avitars don't really weird me out on their own, but when they claim to be of a certain age that an RL kid would be and "tawk wike dis" It makes it hard for me to take them seriously. Now I do not run or ignore a child avi, that is their business to be a child avi, I do however question what makes them desire to be a child in a virtual world that is known for two things: Shopping and sex. Again that is their perogotive. Is it really any different than people shunning Michael Jackson for wanting to relive his childhood? Not really. I find it really hard to believe they are a person wanting to capture the innocence of their youth, when they dress like whores.

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A shopping Mall in a Mature region (Moderate) is fair game to any kind of Avatar including a child one....in essence you really should not be viewing much Adult content in those Malls in the first instance.

SL is known for Sex you say, yet there are only 3300 sims that are registered as Adult out of 30,000 sims.....so about 11% of the Grid that I believe should really be off-limits to any Child Avatar....the rest of the Grid are regulated by sim & land owners according to their own rules & preferences.

There are a numerous reasons why adults might want to be a child avatar.........do you ever question the motives of anyone wanting to be a Vampire or a furry Fox or a Dragon or a Tiny or a Fairy or a Elf?  Why not? it's your own narrow mindedness that needs examining not the motives of someone choosing such and such Avatar form.

[Harper Held]

There are no good places to talk about being a child avi in SL. That said, the official forum has to be the absolute worst place to talk about it (or, really, anything else).

 

I feel your pain, Kiskoshka; just remember that a few jerks doesn't represent all of Secondlife; and if you stick w/ it you'll find ppl who are cool and, really, THOSE are the people who matter, right?

Not the haters.

[Don Mill]

Dear Porky Gorky:

I would very much welcome the links/references that support your varied asumptions in your post. I am assuming that all your condescending statements are actually grounded on proven fact, right?

Meanwhile,  please understand that no one owes you any kind of explanation or justification for their actions. So whether you trust those that roleplay child avatars or not is of no consequence to over 99.99% of the human population (you can include undiscovered alien species too, I am pretty sure they do not care much about you either).

Live and let live... or in your case, hide... please

 

 

[Avi Aeon]

When a Vampire, furry, dragon, tiny, fairy, elf or mer approaches me to talk, they talk to me in a normal fashion. Two adults conversing in a sim together. I have never been approached by any of these types of avatars in a non-RP sim and have them be "in character" with me.

Not all, but a much, much higher percentage of child avatars will speak to me "in character." This is the only problem I, personally, have. I'm not involved in adult-rated activities in SL, but that doesn't mean I want to be forced into "your" roleplay.

If I were to roleplay, I would keep it to my designated rp sims and/or keep it to like-minded individuals outside of said sim(s). I don't find that narrow minded, I find that respectful.

When someone with a child avie approaches me with a question and does not role-play being a child, I will treat them with the same respect they've shown me. This works with any avatar type, though.

But, regardless of anyone's personal reasons for not wanting to do business with or have child avatars on their land, that's their choice just as much as it's the choice of the person behind the avatar to portray a child. I could argue that it's equally narrow-minded not to respect the views of an individual on land that they have paid rights for, or to insinuate that they are not as enlightened as you. It comes down to preference and taste in a situation regarding choice, and I don't believe either side of the fence is more open or narrow minded for their tastes.

[Rene Erlanger]

Not all kid avatars use "baby speak" though. I've been running businesses and sim rentals for years now......and when conducting a business transaction with a Child Avatar, they rarely use "baby speak"

Do you know know how many SL families there are in SL? ....1000's! They reside all around the Grid on PG or Mature residential sims. I know tons of adult avies that also have child avatars tucked away in their Inventories...as i sell both adult & child avatars.

There's too much discrimination about this and that within Second Life....it becomes incredibly boring reading all this familiar diatribe.

I get it....and don't dispute it.....your land so it's your rules....the rest however is a nonsense!

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

Why anybody would want to play a child in an adult virtual world such as Second Life is beyond me. 

Whether there is adult material on the region or not, predators stalk everywhere.  Being a child avatar is just playing right into their hands.

---

How so?

See I just don't get this because everyone knows that's an adult playing that cartoon character there...

This is not an underage player.

This is an adult player choosing to play a star bellied sneech instead of a plain sneech. Its a cartoon character...

Yes, I get that folks would feel VERY uncomfortable engaging in sexual conduct around said avatar - because the visual thereby evoked is very disturbing.

But in normal everyday conduct, only an extreme IDIOT would assume that the cartoon represented reality.

 

I mean sure, my inner self is a neko - but if you met me in real life would you expect to see cat ears and a tail on me? I hope not...

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

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Porky Gorky wrote:

The world is full of sick bastards who either abuse and hurt children or fantasize about such things. SL is an ideal environment for these perverts to role play their sick urges and desires. This has happened in the past as reported in the media. I've also seen it with my own eyes.

---

Meh. The world is full of people paranoid that it is full of such people, but has very few such actual people. Having worked in the criminal justice system I've met a few of the real ones - they aren't who you think, and they're not that common. One of the rarer forms of criminality.

It makes for very easy paranoia though.

Life is rarely like Law and Order:SVU where you can cart one of these out every week at 9pm CST Wednesday... Most folks will never encounter one in their whole lives - knowingly or not. But anyone from any inner city like where I grew up can easily recall real murderers, thieves, pimps, and dealers.

[JoJo Aurelia]

Don't hate, but I find child avatars anoying and creepy. The girls always have "makeup" on and it's scary. And they make a lot of local noise. If a child avi talks to me I snarl at them.

[Harper Held]

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Faye Feldragonne wrote:

 If a child avi talks to me I snarl at them.

---

 

um....bully for you? ;;

[Dilbert Dilweg]

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Don Mill wrote:

Dear Porky Gorky:

I would very much welcome the links/references that support your varied asumptions in your post.

 

 

---

Here is one for your reading pleasure

There are more

google it

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6638331.stm

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Features/Accusations-Regarding-Child-Pornography-in-Second-Life/ba-p/575781

[Drake1 Nightfire]

/me snifs the air.

Its been two days and not a single reply from the OP.

anyone else smell a Flaming Troll?

[Dilbert Dilweg]

lol

[Porky Gorky]

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Don Mill wrote:

Dear Porky Gorky:

I would very much welcome the links/references that support your varied asumptions in your post. I am assuming that all your condescending statements are actually grounded on proven fact, right?

Meanwhile,  please understand that no one owes you any kind of explanation or justification for their actions. So whether you trust those that roleplay child avatars or not is of no consequence to over 99.99% of the human population (you can include undiscovered alien species too, I am pretty sure they do not care much about you either).

Live and let live... or in your case, hide... please

 

 

---

 

I don't think I made any assumptions that require sourcing, however if you need sources I shall provide them. 

My first source is my own personal experience. I spent 8 years working in the prison service and another 4 years working for the CPS. I've spent thousands of hours surrounded by sex offenders, specifically offenders who rape, sexually assault and abuse children. I've also reviewed hundreds of cases of child abuse during my time at the CPS.

So when I say the world is full of sick bastards who abuse children, my statement is mainly based on personal experience.

Thousands of people are convicted of sex offenses against children each year in the UK. It's a grossy unreported crime and there are many instances where the perpetrators are not convicted and cases never see the light of day. The same holds true for many countries around the world

Here is a link to a BBC article Convictions for sex offences on children up 60% in six years

WIthin the article  it states

"last year police in England and Wales were notified of more than 23,000 offences and that recent research by the NSPCC suggested one in 20 secondary school children had been sexually assaulted."

 

So the National Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children suggests that 1 in 20 secondary (high) school children have been sexually assaulted in the UK. I don't need to elaborate on that, the world is full of sick bastards, as I said,  so I will move on to SL.

Drawing from personal experience again, I have seen 2 instances first hand of SL users role-playing a sexual assault on a minor during my 7 + years here. The first instance took place in 2006. I was basically spying on my neighbours as I had noticed child avatars hanging around and I wanted to know what they were up to. One day I swung my cam through the walls of their house and into the bedroom. I witnessed 2 male avatars roleplaying sexual acts with a 3rd avatar that looked like a girl aged about 6. I took lots of snapshots of the scene including Av names, then I contact live help and reported them immediately. A Linden arrived on the scene straight away, I sent them the pics, they cammed inside the house and 5 minuteslater I had no neighbours.

 

The 2nd instance happened in 2008. I was working on a custom sim at the time for a customer. The sim was closed to the general public but I had access as I was obviously building it. So I arrive unexpectedly at the sim one day to do some work and noticed there were 2 other people showing up on my mini map. One was my customer,the sim owner, so I flew towards them to say hello and arrived to find the sickest thing I have ever seen in SL. I won't describe it here but will summarise it as 2 people roleplaying the abuse of a child.  So that's my first hand experience.

Im guessing by your post that you are not aware of the child abuse scandals that have taken place in SL in the past which is why you are asking for links and points of reference. If you are interested in this subject then you should should search for credible sources on the internet yourself. There are many and the issue has been well documented

I shall provide a link to one article to back up my earlier post as you seem to think my comments were just condescending without any basis in fact.

Paedophiles Target Virtual World

So this is the "Wonderland" scandal. It was reported by numerous mainstream media outlets in 2007 and went a long way in cementing SL's reputation as being a haven for sexual deviants, a reputation that still exists today to some extent in the eyes of the general public.

As I said there are plenty of other stories out there. Go and research the subject yourself if you would like to become more informed.

So that is why I find all child Av's suspicious, I am not just being inflammatory for the sake of it, There have been many documented instances where child av's have been used in the simulation and roleplay of child abuse in SL. So when a ADULT user makes a conscious decision to play a child av within an environment where child av's have been used inappropriately many times in the past, then I am going to question their motivates. As I said in my previous post, child avatar users need to justify their choice of avatar to me if they have any hope of gaining my trust and friendship. 

[Arkady Arkright]

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Rene Erlanger wrote:it's your own narrow mindedness that needs examining not the motives of someone choosing such and such Avatar form.

---

There's none so intolerant as those intolerant of intolerance...

[Porky Gorky]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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Porky Gorky wrote:

The world is full of sick bastards who either abuse and hurt children or fantasize about such things. SL is an ideal environment for these perverts to role play their sick urges and desires. This has happened in the past as reported in the media. I've also seen it with my own eyes.

---

Meh. The world is full of people paranoid that it is full of such people, but has very few such actual people. Having worked in the criminal justice system I've met a few of the real ones - they aren't who you think, and they're not that common. One of the rarer forms of criminality.

It makes for very easy paranoia though.

Life is rarely like Law and Order:SVU where you can cart one of these out every week at 9pm CST Wednesday... Most folks will never encounter one in their whole lives - knowingly or not. But anyone from any inner city like where I grew up can easily recall real murderers, thieves, pimps, and dealers.

---

Having worked within the prison service and the criminal prosecution service in the uk for 12 years I guess I do not have the average perspective. I was surrounded by hundreds of sex offenders day in day out and a good percentage of them were child sex offenders,

I am not paranoid in the slightest, I have just had allot more exposure to these sorts of criminals and cases than most people. Having worked in the criminal justice system yourself I am surprised you remain so sheltered from the truth. Child sex offenders are common place within our society. There has been an alarming increase over the last few years in the amount of reported cases and the quantity of convictions. As I quoted in my previous post, 

"the NSPCC suggested one in 20 secondary school children had been sexually assaulted."

So no, sexual abuse against children is not "rare" as you put it, at least not in the UK and I expect the same holds true for the US too.

[Drake1 Nightfire]

http://www.fbi.gov/scams-safety/registry

search your city and scare yourself.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

Sounds like a good day to bring "Little Immy" out of the deep recesses of my inventory. =^-^=

Don't

MAKE

me cute y'all to frigg'n death!

---

Pffft, bring it on, Immy. I used to be a drowlet. we can go annoy people together.

---

 

can i come? i was half drow hehehehe

[Ceka Cianci]

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

/me snifs the air.

Its been two days and not a single reply from the OP.

anyone else smell a Flaming Troll?

---

i was gonna say bot at first because i could swear there was a thread with a very similar title..

but i couldn't find one when i did the search so i didn't give them a bot punch..

have to wait a couple of days before i can do that hehehehe

that's the official bot punch grace period hehehe

[kaptan Sharpesworth]

As an adult sim owner  I do not allow child avi's on the sim .I know there  is verified adult behind the avi. But like many M sim owners I know my first question is why. Why a child avi in area of question They can change and go to m or even adult sims why stay as child avi ? Children are a big part of life agreed  But who lets their Children  run wild  or takes them to places  that are inappropriate for Children ?   STOP FOOLING YOURSELVES If you find it necessary to look like a child  in a questionable area  M or A  ( not g as intended )  you have lost touch with reality or are looking for trouble of somekind AS you are an adult use adult brain