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kiskoshka

REALLY Sick of discrimination against child avatars

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About 80% of the time, I play my avatar as a child - and I can't even begin to express the tremendous hurt and frustration I feel over the discrimination and prejudice against child avatars that is absolutely rampant in SL. It happens a dozen times a week; I was recently told that a woman wouldn't sell me a prefab house because my child avatar offended her. Just today, I was ordered to leave an arcade on a moderate sim. The place was abandoned, there was no adult content whatsoever, but the sim manager approached me and told me to change my shape or get out. Why??? I'm sorry, but I see absolutely no difference between this type of discrimination and the times I've been discriminated against (very, very few) due to my ethnicity in RL. Obviously, being a child avatar is sort of a choice, because I could choose an adult shape - but at the same time, it isn't. My avi is my inner child's free expression, and being forced to change it when the situaiton doesn't call for it at all is disturbing and discriminatory. I am so sick of moderate sims with no sexual or adult content whatsoever banning child avatars, either because of their own ignorance and prejudice, or because they don't understand the LL TOS at all. Has anyone else experienced this? I seriously feel unwelcome. My "alt" is a premium account - why am I paying to be treated like dirt??

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not saying you have no gripe but is it really a mystery to you why you're being treated like that?

there must be other people like you, form a group, carve out your stake in sl. people have a right to ban what they don't like or understand and you have the right to create you're own environment.

a lot of people get flack for so many things, like bdsm RP, furries, kidnapping..........that's just a part of what comes from doing you're own thing.  buck up and move forward knowing not everyone is going to understand or care to understand.

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Why anybody would want to play a child in an adult virtual world such as Second Life is beyond me. 

Whether there is adult material on the region or not, predators stalk everywhere.  Being a child avatar is just playing right into their hands.  The sim manager, I would guess, was trying to protect his/her sim from prosecution should you be accosted by a child molester, and subsequently decided to sue Linden Lab and his sim for damages.  This, of course, is a worst case scenario, but I would venture a guess that it is possible. 

I think the average avatar height is something on the order of 7 feet tall (give or take).  I've heard tell of a lady who also got chided for making her avatar her real life height of 5 feet 5 inches tall.  So you are not alone. 

I have to agree with the other poster.  Get a group together, get a sim, and stake your own claim in SL.  This way, YOU decide who stays and who goes and you can be a child avatar to your hearts content. 

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in SL, avatar presentation is even more diverse than RL diversity.

I think the reason people shy away from child avatars is cause when you see and hear about people getting arrested for messing around with under age.

Basically people are like really paranoid to have anything to do with kids online, even if it's an avatar in SL. Adults just would rather not take ANY chances on anything being said or or happening.

And for RL's contribution, kids are known to be troublemakers so people tend to shy away from kids.

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I'm one of those that shy away from kidatars. The whole thing to me is silly. I come to SL to get AWAY from kids - an escape - a place ALL MINE that I don't have to share WITH my kids. So why would I come HERE...to my fantasy world, and take up with them? Not that I'm mean or discriminatory toward them - I just have nothing to do with them at all. I'm sure alot of people feel the exact same way that I do. 

 

That said, there's no reason for 'adults' to congregate socially with 'kids' in RL on their level. That's the nature of being an 'adult'. So, again - why would you expect them to here? Do you like when kids barge in on your adult conversations? Do you drag kids with you in RL every where you go? Imma guess - no.

 

The one place you're sure to find a welcoming environment is on a kid friendly, kid catering, kid designed sim. That's your goal, right? To be a kid? Then don't be surprised when you get 'adult' (sex, nudity - all that aside. I'm speaking merely of age here.)  reactions and interactions when you wander from that 'safety' zone. 

 

Wouldn't it be creepy for 'adult' avatars to wander your kid space and wanna 'hang out' with the crowd? Yeah, just a lil bit. It's the same thing in reverse so you need to look at it objectively, from both sides.

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Sometimes just thinking there isn't anything adult on a sim, isn't really enough to classify it as that.

There very well could be adult activities going on, in the comforts of homes, and whatnot. There could be adult language used on the sim by it's guests. There could be any number of reasons why people don't want children meandering about, amongst adults. It's not discriminatory. To be frank(I've always wanted to be frank....), I think it's you who doesn't understand the TOS. Land owners have every right to not allow people on their land, and they actually don't even have to have, or give you, a reason. One of the beauties of owning a plot of land.

Me, personally, I couldn't care less. But if a kid wanders onto my sim, and hubby and I are playing naked twister, I don't want to see someone complaining about seeing his dangly bits or my nipples, let alone whatever dirty talk might be going on in local(not typical, we use skype, but still). Sometimes we just lay naked on a rug, in the middle of our, umm, house(it's a box, guess it's a house, lol) while we watch movies irl. You know how many people have wandered into our land, or my house from other parcels on the sim and had crap to say? Too many. But, my parcel is still open for all, because I have a store way up in the sky. I tried the house up, store down, and had the same results. Now.. I just don't much care. When people complain, I point them towards the opening that would be a doorway if it had a door and let them know there's an amazing little store about 300m up if they'd like to explore :P

I can completely understand why some people don't allow certain things on their sims. Be it people, attire, behavior, whatever. They may take issue with it, and that's a-ok. I don't like to see people being dragged around and publicly humiliated or abused, and I'd prefer not to see it on my land, but since I only have the one parcel, I can't very well tell people they can't(unless I want to limit my own traffic, lol), so I don't. When I had a full sim I sure did though. I restricted access to everywhere except the store. Then I didn't have to see the things I didn't want to see. It was kinda nice, actually.

Now because of the sim I am on, I get way more visitors that are just wandering, lookie loos and whatnot. I don't normally mind, but there is the occasional problematic wanderer. Some folks do mind dealing with them, and you really shouldn't blame them for that. I think you're actually showing just as much intolerance and you're complaining about, to be honest. You're intolerant of other people's desires, as much as you're claiming they're intolerant of yours. You desire to be a child avatar, and they desire to be away from them. Seems a no brainer to me. You don't go places that contain things you don't want to see. Why do you do this? Because you desire not to see them, correct? So why should your desires trump the person who owns(or rents, in most cases), the land?

I guess I'd understand the whole "it's discrimination" if someone were being openly derogatory, publicly derogatory, intentionally attacking, etc... But that's not even remotely the case.

SL is a huuuuuuuuuuuge world, there are plenty of places that would welcome you with open arms. Why worry about the ones that don't want to? Seems a waste of time.

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Keep in mind, your children are real children. In case of childavatars we are talking about adult users who made their avatar look like a child. Hanging out with them (outside of every roleplay conversation) is pretty much like talking with normal people. There avatars don't make them limited in their mind.

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Even real children aren't necessarily limited in their mind. I know some absolutely brilliant children that could blow any adult out of the water, in the area of intelligence and maturity, lol. But I doubt that's the point you were trying to make, lol.

But just because they are adults, doesn't mean their avatars behave as such(though truth be told most of us adults don't always act like adults, either, lol). Many truly roleplay children in as many aspects as they possibly can. Some, in fact most, children avatars are VERY immersive in their roles.

It's not just the "act" of having a child avatar around questionable content, behavior, etc...it's also the appearance(s), and how that makes people feel. If it bothers them in rl, it's quite possible it will bother them here too. Though sometimes even if it doesn't bother them irl, it might here, at times. Me, for instance, kids don't bother me. I have my own, I actually enjoy spending time with my kids, heck any kids even ones who can, at times, be annoying. I have an extremely high tolerance for their antics, as it were. I'm a kid sort of person, I guess, lol. But sometimes, in sl, maybe I'm all  kid'd out for the day. Mine are in bed, sleeping away, plotting their newest adventures, or how they're going to pay me back for the nerf fight I clearly won(the little cheaters), and mommy needs to unwind. I very well may not want to do so, with other kids around, even if they aren't "real" kids behind the scenes, they are PLAYING real kids, in sl. I don't run across too many kid avatars who don't immerse themselves very much in their role in sl. A few, but not many. I have a kid av too, my alt is a kid, or was, currently she's an adult, lol. You just won't find too many who don't take that role seriously. Unlike many other different kinds of rp you see, where folks may not be quite as serious, the majority of kid avs, actually are.

Looks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's a duck, for all intents and purposes in sl. Even if it's really a middle aged dude sitting behind a computer screen pretending to be a duck in sl. He wants to act like a duck, he gets treated like a duck. That's pretty much how I look at most roles people take on(except those that I intentionally ignore, lol, but if I were to pay them any mind, I'd treat them as their role says I ought to, til they tell me otherwise).

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I don't see how your payment arrangement has anything to do with any perceived rights you feel you have in SL. The people you mentioned are paying for the land you want to use. How does your membership trump theirs in any way? The way you portray your avatar is 100% choice. You are not a child, you are just portraying one. I get that it feels similar, but it's not equal to discrimination against someone for immutable qualities. I kind of see it as someone who wouldn't like you for your musical tastes. If I don't let you play your CDs in my car because I don't like that type of music, am I discriminating against you? Sure, you chose to buy those CDs (because you wanted to) and you want to play them, but I paid for my car, I'm driving and I can't stand your taste in music. My car, my rules. You can play your music in your own car, or with people who also like your style of music.

The prefab home creator is a little different, but there are plenty of other merchants out there that actually like having business. This one clearly does not. I don't see it as discrimination, but I definitely see it as poor business sense. A sale is a sale, and it shouldn't matter who buys it.

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The world is full of sick bastards who either abuse and hurt children or fantasize about such things. SL is an ideal environment for these perverts to role play their sick urges and desires. This has happened in the past as reported in the media. I've also seen it with my own eyes.

I am not saying that this is your motivation for being a child Av. However, based on what I have seen in SL in the past, I view every child avatar with suspicion. It's up to the user of that child avatar to convince me that their intentions are harmless and to explain their motivation for being a child AV before I even remotely trust them. Yes, I know it's prejudice and I know it's unfair. It's just the way it is from my perspective.

As the majority of SL users have no desire to re-live their childhood or express their inner child, then that puts child av's in a very small minority. Unfortunately it's a very small minority shared by actual Pedophiles or people with Pedophilic tendencies. 

You are never going to escape this association in some peoples eyes, as long as you remain a child Av in SL. This is just the way it is and nothing anybody says in this thread is going to change that.

I would assume that the only people who can role play a child av long term in SL are those that can easily shrug off criticism, ignore discrimination and laugh in the face of bigotry. If you are not able to ignore adversity then you are going to be fighting an uphill battle.

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Terms of Service

You may permit or deny other users to access your Virtual Land on terms determined by you. Any agreement you make with other users relating to use or access to your Virtual Land must be consistent with these Terms of Service, and no such agreement can abrogate, nullify, void or modify these Terms of Service.

Community Standards

Combating intolerance is a cornerstone of Second Life's Community Standards. Actions that marginalize, belittle, or defame individuals or groups inhibit the satisfying exchange of ideas and diminish the Second Life community as a whole. The use of derogatory or demeaning language or images in reference to another Resident's race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is never allowed in Second Life.

Where does the TOS say anything about child avatars or apparent age of avatar as you assert? Please post a link here because I never have seen it.

The TOS or Community Standards do not protect or give any rights to child avatars any more than it does any other avatar choice or lifestyle except in the case of sexual age play.   You chose to be a child avatar regardless of what you say.  The landowner chose not to allow child avatars for whatever reason they care to use or no reason at all as that is their right under the TOS.  You made the choice not to change into an adult avatar and therefore had to leave.  What activities or situations that go on there have absolutely nothing to do with it.  There was no violation of the TOS or Community Standards.  There was no discrimination.

The only ignorance here is your own for claiming that these documents give you rights that they do not.  You do not have a right to go on any land that is owned by other residents, and may be asked to leave or even rudely booted off for any reason or no reason under the TOS.  Paying for a premium account gives you no more rights than anyone else.  On the other hand paying for land gives you all rights over it as long as there is no violations of the TOS.

If you sick of the way you are treated on moderate sims geared to adults, then simply choose not to go there or choose to change your avatar.

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There are a ton  of narrow minded bigots that play Second Life.....has always been the case. They try and impose their thoughts or opinions onto others.

Unfortunately if they own the land, you have to abide by their rules.....but it's probably not worth visiting anyways. Just place their location on your own "blacklist" and hand out as a notice to other Children groups.....so that other SLL kiddie avatars are aware to avoid TP'ing to those locations.

 

Some people just love soft targets to assert their dominace over......if Kids Avatars were no longer allowed on Second lIfe...those same narrow minded bigots would probably target Furries or Gorean avatars next. In the first instance this subset cannot grasp what Second Life is suppose to be....and what it means to have a "virtual life" in any desired Avatar form.

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"Unfortunately if they own the land, you have to abide by their rules"

 

i wouldn't exactly call that unfortunate.

NOT being able to set my own rules on my own land would be unfortunate.

 

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i think people are scared of kids being around because................well.............um............

SL-Adult sex can happen at any moment and they don't want kids around blowing their chances scaring off their BF or GF because they know an Ex-hubby or EX-wifey is gonna come bustin through the door getting all upset because  mommy or daddy started dating agin..

 

thats my theory....

 

 

seriously..i think it just comes down to some people being scared of things they hear about but really don't understand...

kind of like this...hey if you just ate..don't go swimming for 30 minutes or you will get cramps and drownd...LOL

i could of drownded Gilbert!! DROWNNNNNDED!!!

 

i'll add some people do have their reasons which i am sure are good reasons..but some are just going off what they have heard..

 

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yep...got the wording wrong..it's not unfortunate...their land, their rules....but the rest i won't retract from.

I'm tired with all the drama caused over different representations of an Avatar. its the same with all these privacy issues....they're Avatars first & foremost ffs.....they're not exactly handing out RL names and addresses. Some that shout the loudest about privacy...are the same people that broadcast every aspect of their RL on Facebook & Twitter......go figure!

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Kid Avatars should not be allowed on Adult Regions.......but they can if they are adult verified...now how dumb is that?

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Syo Emerald wrote:

Keep in mind, your children are real children. In case of childavatars we are talking about adult users who made their avatar look like a child. Hanging out with them (outside of every roleplay conversation) is pretty much like talking with normal people. There avatars don't make them limited in their mind.

I'm guessing you haven't spent much time around child avs... they don't stop with the kidlet speech. We had a child av come to our club asking  "Iz mi moomies n daddehs waz der?" mind you , she claimed she was supposed to be 6. I have a 6-year-old daughter, she does not sound like a moron. Mind you, this was an Adult sim with a biker bar and strippers.. I IMed her and asked her to change or leave. she told me off so i booted and banned her.

go ahead and call me discriminatory.

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Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

i hear where you're coming from.

i guess the variety of human nature is always going to cause conflicts. diversity is a double edged sword.

What kills me, people moan about an aspect that is very normal in our everyday lives.....the Family unit and Kids.....but god forbid you try and break the scripts to their RLV BDSM Cages.....or disturb them from their gang-bang rape roleplay. What a crazy world we live in! :matte-motes-nerdy:

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Rene Erlanger wrote:


Bouttime Whybrow wrote:

i hear where you're coming from.

i guess the variety of human nature is always going to cause conflicts. diversity is a double edged sword.

What kills me, people moan about an aspect that is very normal in our everyday lives.....the Family unit and Kids.....but god forbid you try and break the scripts to their RLV BDSM Cages.....or disturb them from their gang-bang rape roleplay. What a crazy world we live in! :matte-motes-nerdy:


When you say dis tings ...you mek me laff so very hard...

1735__nacho_l.jpg

Signed Nichoooooooo as i am still laffing

ETA: woul you like to comb to mah roon tonigh for sun dry toast?

 

 

sorry i am in a strange mood today and your post did make me LOL's hehehehe

i just thought  it deserved the famous "Nichoooo two corn on a steek" award..heheheh

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I mean really....if one's brain is not able to digest that there is a real life adult behind the Child Avatar.....i would have to suggest a medical check up!  I would be far more concerned about a RL teenager snooping on my bedroom antics....or for any of them slipping into the Adult Regions and being verified on Mommy's CC!

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Rene Erlanger wrote:

I mean really....if one's brain is not able to digest that there is a real life adult behind the Child Avatar.....i would have to suggest a medical check up!  I would be far more concerned about a RL teenager snooping on my bedroom antics....or for any of them slipping into the Adult Regions and being verified on Mommy's CC!

i wasn't laughing about what you were saying about child avatars..

it's the intrusion on the other stuff that  really got me..

i thought it well said..

when the truth is presented in a certain way..it can create some of the best humor there is..

i was just giving you props for it is all..=)

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Rene Erlanger wrote:

I mean really....if one's brain is not able to digest that there is a real life adult behind the Child Avatar.....i would have to suggest a medical check up!  I would be far more concerned about a RL teenager snooping on my bedroom antics....or for any of them slipping into the Adult Regions and being verified on Mommy's CC!

i wasn't laughing about what you were saying about child avatars..

it's the intrusion on the other stuff that  really got me..

i thought it well said..

when the truth is presented in a certain way..it can create some of the best humor there is..

i was just giving you props for it is all..=)

I know Ceka... :matte-motes-wink: .I just added a general comment thereafter (not addressed to you)...but to those that suffer from brain hemorrhoids!

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