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DeDe Doowangle

Where are the older viewers? I want 1.23.5 back.

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Miranda, Peggy:

When I talk about tasks I don't mean kiddie**bleep** like changing an outfit. In my case you may even add one more mouseclick to that task since I keep my outfits in various subfolders. With tasks I mean communication. Heck, in a VW that's what we do 90% of the time isn't it?

And please excuse me for confusing V2 and V3, I guess V3 with it's modability is far better than V2. Heck, I even gave it a try, with LL viewer and Firestorm (which is a V3). Didn't like it so far. FPS got worse, and despite their best efforts they still carry all the negative parts of V2/V3. I missed lots of important group notices and IMs since they only show in a small box thing on the lower (or was it upper?) right hand side of the screen instead of in the chat flow on my screen, where they belong. A technically better versed friend just had FS running for 3 mths, I thought I'd lost her to the dark side already. A few days ago she told me she's back with Phoenix since the new GUI made her life less comfortable.

I don't know how you are spending your time in SL, bored much? I just don't have the time to look around for messages and notes, I don't have the time to fix a viewer makers GUI by modding it to my taste. V1 generation viewers were pretty much perfect for me. Super layout. They didn't look like websites. The new viewers are confusing. Where's my radar, where are the notecards I was supposed the be getting, why is the friendslist not in communication box where it belongs? Why am I being sent into the internet just for watching some profile? What is a effing folllower? Why should I follow anyone? Or why should they follow me? Will we soon have to click some "Like" boxes? Why had they squeeze my profile pic into square format in the new profile thing?

As I mentioned I just don't have/take the time to test anything in detail. I install always the newest stuff I can get my clumsy fingers on, play with it for give or take 5 - 10 mins, decide it's not for me and switch back to stuff I know. In some cases it''s probably my own incapability to understand and use the new stuff, in other cases it's just necessary. LL V3 fresh out the box gave me the worst FPS ever. I consider anything below 20 FPS catastrophic! I'm not an epileptic but low FPS makes me nervous. Swoosh, baibai! GUI looked promising tho. Anyway, I have stuffz to do and need a viewer that enables me and not one that holds me back or forces me to spend time with it.

Of course in 2007 we had much more crashes than nowadays. I never argued that. What has it to do with viewers?

And I don't consider most of the points you made as functionality. Good FPS, meshes, outfits and less crashes are no functions, they are the core basics in a viewer. Tools are functions. And Phoenix/FS traditionally have much more of those than LL. Also most of the stuff you get with modern LL viewers was first introduced by some or the other TPV. When you come from a long history of using Emerald and other TPV it feels just bad to switch back to LL. Is like visiting a ghetto.

And yes, contrary to my car I don't have to pay for any viewer. I'm rather fond of Mercedes Benz btw. My own one is from 1982  and still drives like a dream. But I guess you wouldn't like it since it's outdated and I can do so much more stuff with the newer models. But that's not the point since all viewers are free, but unfortunately the viewer as made by LL isn't as nice as the various TPVs. As some ppl already mentioned in other places: LL should maybe just stop making viewers and instead hire the Phoenix guys or Kirsten or Niran or Lance or any of the other TPV developers.

Maybe I am not fair, probably wrong with some of my gripes ... but still I am the customer, I have the choice, I chose the best for what I need. And that I just don't get from LL. On my desktop you find 4 currently installed viewers: Phoenix 1.6.0.1600, Firestorm 3.3.0.24880, LL 3.2.9.249510 and the InWorldz viewer (LOL). I play around with LL and FS quite often but when I really need to do stuffz and not fussing around I always fall back onto Phoenix.

And, Peggy, I'm 100% woman and around this planet since quite a while, thank you very much.

 

 

 

 

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I'm with Peggy and Miranda on this one. In my opinion the latest SL3 is probably the best viewer LL has come up with in recent year. I am not sure why people keep saying that the interface is hard to use and everything needs more clicks when this is really just not true, the problem is that people get on with the viewer with a closed mind predetermined to just hate the viewer. I will admit that I do hate search (but I can live with it), I also hate the people search for inviting people to a group and also land management. 

I don't use LL's official viewer even if it gives me the best FPS than any other viewer simply because I am in love with Exodus which has the smaller toolbar buttons, however I have not touched a V1 viewer in months and I honestly don't miss it. 

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Hello again, DeDe

How are you today?

Did you try any of the recommendations in this thread yet, ie Phoenix.

The beautiful thing about Second Life - currently - is that we are not all stuck with the one choice of Viewer.  There may come a time when we will all have to go onto Viewer 3, BUT I believe that will not be until LL have utilised the ability of the developers of the third party viewers to the maximum. 

When Viewer 2 first came out, it was horrible, worse than it is now, and as someone else has correctly pointed out in this thread, Firestorm is close to Viewer 3, but there is a lot more you can do with it, to have all the good features of Viewer 3, along with user-friendliness of Viewer 1.23.

We all reach points in our lives (Second and real), where there is a catalyst that makes us want to say "Aaaaargh!!!" and walk away.  You are obviously there with your Second Life.  Please, if you haven't done so already, have a go with Phoenix.  Make the most of it while we have it, I sure am.

@ Orca and Peggy, I can see your points, all your points, but for gawd's sake you both just look like kids in a schoolyard, and it's not at all helpful to the OP, who is already feeling like quitting SL - don't be the final nail in their coffin lid.

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All newer viewers supporting mesh are very laggy and super buggy. There are no exceptions. Mesh has compromized speed hard.

Therefore 1.23.5 Is the most stable viewer and i still use it, along with Phoenix viewer 1.5.2 (1185) which is 1 based although on Snowglobe. But the latter is very close to 1.23.5 and its performance plus stability, plus it has the latest options except mesh.

Since 1.23.5 is no longer available for download, what i did was upload it to our rl business server to preserve it for anyone wanting to download it. Although i did learn a bit in SL i am absolutely no computer expert but what i do understand is that 1.23.5 is still far the best viewer ever. Phoenix viewer 1.5.2 (1185) is a perfect alternative for using the latest options.

http://www.sensic.nl/PrivateMedia/Second_Life_1-23-5-136262_Setup.exe

It is the original 1.23.5 of course, but should anyone have thougts ( i can understand because trust in SL difficult), then 1.5.2 from the Phoenix team is great too.

http://www.phoenixviewer.com/

Mind that the 1600 Phoenix build looks like V1 is mesh enabled but super buggy. 1.5.2 (1185) is smooth, stable and fast mesh not enabled.

 

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"...

@ Orca and Peggy, I can see your points, all your points, but for gawd's sake you both just look like kids in a schoolyard,..."

-------------------------------------------------

 

But, but Orca threw a spit ball at me in finger painting class!!!  I have the right to get even don't I?  :smileylol:

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Peggy Paperdoll wrote:

"...

@ Orca and Peggy, I can see your points, all your points, but for gawd's sake you both just look like kids in a schoolyard,..."

-------------------------------------------------

 

But, but Orca threw a spit ball at me in finger painting class!!!  I have the right to get even don't I?  :smileylol:

*sighs* you kids

Mama Marigold's just feeling a little bit out of sorts today. Keep the noise down or I'll have to bring in grumpy old Miss Withers** from down the street to deal with the pair of you ! :womanmad:

:matte-motes-wink:

 

** not real name

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" With tasks I mean communication. "
Ok , let s talk about communication . What about the voice bugged with 1.23 ? What about media on prims ?
May i share some videos , some music , some documents to someone else with viewer 1.23 when i don t own a parcel ?
And may we translate easily chat text with viewer 1.23 , except in using a laggy hud ? Do you think that communication inside internet is only between people with same native language ?

"Heck, I even gave it a try, with LL viewer and Firestorm (which is a V3)."
It was a wrong test and try.
Firestorm has a V2 look and feel not a V3 look and feel , even with the last update with v3 choice . They have started to integrate some V3 code only since this month . But it displays a V2 look and feel interface. For instance , to prove Firestorm is a V2 look and feel , you have again and always a panel in your right.
With FS, you can t arrange your buttons like you wish at the sides ( only at the bottom) . With V3 , you can.
Whit FS , if you want to remove all buttons , it wont remove the bottom bar . With V3 , you can earn some free place in removing everything

With FS, you can t switch the butoons between icones and labels . WIth V3, you can do it . If you don t want to take too long time to learn the meaning of icones , you who tell later on the thread you want a simple viewer , the V3 look and feel  done for you



Other TPV viewers as Exodus , Niran have the V3 look and feel , but not Firestorm. They have integrated it well sooner and have more experience with it.
The V3 is dated from end august 2011 .


" FPS got worse, and despite their best efforts they still carry all the negative parts of V2/V3. "

It s wrong to think than you will have better FPS with elder viewers.
When for instance you check this blog who has compared many viewers , and trying to have the same situation,
you can see that the viewers based v1.23 ( phoenix for instance ) are really slower than the newer viewers
https://modemworld.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/comparative-viewer-frame-rates/
At the ground , the same computer with the same settings could display 48 FPS with V3  while the phoenix viewer could display 26 FPS

"I missed lots of important group notices and IMs since they only show in a small box thing on the lower (or was it upper?) right hand side of the screen instead of in the chat flow on my screen, where they belong."

I am sorry for you , but you tell you have not the time to configure your viewer . So , explain me how
you can loose IMs when you hear a little sound easily recognizable


"I just don't have the time to look around for messages and notes, I don't have the time to fix a viewer makers GUI by modding it to my taste."

But with V1 viewer you spend some time alone , because one functionnality after one is broken . And you will spend many time in the forums to know how to get around your problem .

"Where's my radar"
The radar 1.23 ? There were no radar in 1.23 . You make the confusion with other viewers

"where are the notecards I was supposed the be getting"

Notecards work exactly the same . They are items from servers

"why is the friendslist not in communication box where it belongs? "
And why it should ? Firstly it s illogic to have its friendlist in an another tab as in viewer 1.23
Secondly, it s a waste of time : with 1.23 you must switch in your friendlist ( one click ) click on IM ( second double-click ) . So 2 clicks per IM.
With V3 , you can have your friendlist in a window , open your communication window and having the two windows not overlapped . After , you need only to do one double click on the friendlist window to open an IM session .
It s faster and it s more simple .

"Why am I being sent into the internet just for watching some profile?"
Is it a pain ? The final user is interested by the content, the functionnality , not by the technology


"What is a effing folllower? Why should I follow anyone? Or why should they follow me?"
And so ? what is the problem ?

The interest to follow someone , is to be able to read his feed who he publishes.
The interest to be followed , is to publish some comments , some links , some pictures ( YOU DON T PAY THE UPLOAD OF PICTURES ), your location in your feed to the people who follow you .
When you do a screenshot on V3 , you may upload it directly without fee to your profile

http://modemworld.wordpress.com/2011/09/08/web-profiles-gain-a-follow-button/

When you do a snapshot with viewer 1.23 and you want to share to your friends , you are obliged to save it to your inventory and pay 10l$ ( or save to your hard disk and uploadt it and pay 10 l$)

Personnaly i see 10 l$ saved of my pocket . Not a lot of , but after several months of sl , it counts , and i see a big interest in this

"Will we soon have to click some "Like" boxes?"
Where is the problem ?

"Good FPS, meshes, outfits and less crashes are no functions, they are the core basics in a viewer."
Excuse me , but as user , i dont care if i should name this "function" or "core" . I care about the final result . That 's all .
The meshes don t exist with viewer 1.23
The outfits don t exist with viewer 1.23
The physics don t exist with viewer 1.23
The tatoos don t exist with viewer 1.23
the alpha mask don t exist with viewer 1.23
5 types of thing in my inventory that i can t see with viewer 1.23


"Tools are functions. And Phoenix/FS traditionally have much more of those than LL."
But phoenix is not viewer 1.23
Are you ready to delete all the tools of phoenix to come back in the viewer 1.23 ?

"Also most of the stuff you get with modern LL viewers was first introduced by some or the other TPV."
But viewer 1.23 is not TPV



"When you come from a long history of using Emerald and other TPV it feels just bad to switch back to LL. Is like visiting a ghetto."
Big words ... Have you lived in a ghetto ? This sentence is nearly an offense .


"And yes, contrary to my car I don't have to pay for any viewer. I'm rather fond of Mercedes Benz btw. My own one is from 1982 and still drives like a dream. But I guess you wouldn't like it since it's outdated and I can do so much more stuff with the newer models. But that's not the point since all viewers are free, "
I have never said i wouldn t like your car . I have said you can compare a car ( 10000 $ ) and a viewer (free )
And to change a viewer has no cost , to change a car has a cost .
To keep an old car can be understood because it has a cost


"but unfortunately the viewer as made by LL isn't as nice as the various TPVs."
Viewer 1.23 is nicer than TPV ?

"As some ppl already mentioned in other places: LL should maybe just stop making viewers and instead hire the Phoenix guys or Kirsten or Niran or Lance or any of the other TPV developers."
Why should they ?
If they hire them , they will be obliged to close the sources to protect their employees.
I don t want the sources closed .
If the viewer has been open source , it s because linden does money for their servers not for their viewers .
And so ,


A word with phoenix , because i have the feeling you do the confusion between viewer 1.23 , and viewer based
on the niwever 1.23 . Read the title of topic , it s well the viewer 1.23 , not phoenix.

You use Phoenix . But maybe you know that Phoenix is based in fact on Emerald .
What have been the improvements "tools"( in the same meaning you have used in your post ) these 2 last years in Phoenix ?
None . Absolutely none .
Of course , they have updated phoenix to be able to follow the "core" things as you have said in your own word . They have updated phoenix to have physics, meshes etc ..
But all your tools you like ( maybe the radar you were talking sooner ?) thay come from Emerald or even before emerald , before greenlife .

But let s do a comparison witan another TPV viewer
What have been the improvements in one year of Kisten ( the viewer doesn t exist anymore for pesrsonal reasons )?
A lot of . He was alone . But he didn t need to update the viewer , he has just needed to pull a branch from the official vieweer and to apply his own changes . He had more time to be creative.
The phoenix team were several .
But the phoenix team was too busy to try to update phoenix , that they couldn t offer to you , as user , new tools. They have never been able to be creative and to offer you new tools because they were too busy to update some 1.23 code

An another comparaison : Exodus viewer who is TPV starts to be creative , after only some moths in pulling a branch of develeoppement from the sources of V3 ..Niran too has been more creative in only some months in pulling from V3  The phoenix team has not yet integrated all the V3 code ...

 

It has been a waste of time for this team , and for you

Two years wasted by many clever developpers who could do something more interesting than update their viewer to stay compatible . What is the final result ? a 1600 version who is awfully laggy , who has many issues with meshes and who is at the border line to die 


Now , imagine , if the history was different : imagine one instant , that with the same potential of clever developpers , they have decided to not not maintain a viewer based on emerald . But imagine
if thay had decided to pull a branch from the official viewer and they had decided to build some new tools
who doesn t exist in the official viewer .
Surely you would be glad to have plent of new tools , even on a V2 look and feel ( and V3 look and feel is hugely better than V2 ) 

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Miranda, I'm afraid you are speaking to someone (actually more than just one) who has purposely put ear plugs in their ears.  For whatever reason (probably without any basis) they have chosen to believe that anything and everything Linden Lab is bad or worse.  No matter how many facts and examples you put out they will choose to ignore.  They will put up arguments that are false or incomplete and insist that they know what how it all works. 

The love affair with Pheonix, to me, is completely illogical.  The Pheonix team is almost the entire old Emerald team.  The viewer that turned into a rouge viewer a couple years ago and was banned from Second Life by Linden Lab (for extremely valid reasons revolving on personal security of the users).  Yeah, the "bad" guys are no longer with the Pheonix team.......but that same core of coders and developers are working on the viewers people are using.  I don't know who the bad guys really are (or were).  Just the statements by the Pheonix devs that those guys are gone.  Opening your arms to people like that is simply amazing to me.  I'll never use a program that has a history of violating basic security for the users......and Pheonix has such a history.  This is nothing more than my personal opinion and Pheonix is allowed by LL so I don't have a problem with the users of the viewers............I do, however, have a problem when people speak so highly of a questionable development team and speak lowly of a team that has not such history.  I won't use Pheonix and because of what Pheonix did to me (I was an avid user of Emerald) I'll never use a TPV again.........I don't trust any of them.

Back to your post.  No viewer can be created to have functions or tools that the grid software does not provide.  The viewer is nothing more than a specialized browser......not at all unlike Internet Explorer, Chrome, Safari, Firefox or any other web browser existing on the Internet.  No web browser made can display anything if the Internet does not first make it avaliable.  The grid software (the code that runs the Second Life platform) has features and functions that users can utililize.  The user needs software to take advantage of the features and functions availabe on the platform....without that ability SL is useless for everyone.  We keep speaking so highly of the 1.23 viewer.......why?  It's outdated and can't use any of the more recent features and functions that are available for the users of SL.  The argument is totally illogical.

Linden Lab opened the source code for the viewers a few years ago.  Their reasoning was that the open source folks could tweak and enhance the viewer to satisfy the users who do not know how to tweak and enhance the viewer more to their personal liking.....smart move in my opinion.  LL still produces viewers (on a much slower schedule than before they out sourced the code) and the viewers LL releases are viewers that have the most features and functions available for the user to utilize all the features and functions that the platform software is capable of producing.  The TPV folks can then take that source code and tweak it to make it a little easier for the users......that's the whole idea of out sourcing the viewer code.  The reason one TPV may be less of a strain on one's computer is that it simply does not give the user the ability to use the features or functions that require a more robust computer......the reomove some of the ability for the user to utililize something in SL.  That's actually fine in my opinion..........if your computer can't do something then don't try to make your computer do it and if you don't have a feature in your viewer to enable that heavier task you won't have to worry about it.

People constantly make statements about what a viewer is able to do and how stupid LL is for not making a viewer that can do whatever it is the the person likes.  Guess what..........the LL viewer can do it.  If it couldn't then the developers could not have ever provided a viewer that can do it.  They work with the code that LL out sourced.  The platform is proprietory and they have no access to it so if it's possible for a viewer to make happen in SL then it's because the platform software made it available.  LL produces the viewer code that accesses the platform code to make anything happen.  TPV's  are always going to be behind the LL viewers.......always.

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Linda Brynner wrote:

All newer viewers supporting mesh are very laggy and super buggy. There are no exceptions. Mesh has compromized speed hard.

Why is it that I don't have the same experience? I'm very happy how well the newest viewers perform, be it Linden Lab viewer or some TPV viewer.

"Very laggy"?

If so, why is it that I get high frame rates with high graphics settings. Even with shadows on it does not slow down to a slideshow.

"Super buggy"?

If so, why is it that I crash very seldom due to viewer malfunction?

"There are no exceptions"?

As you can see, there are exceptions.

"Mesh has compromized speed hard"?

Not according to my experience.

There are lots of happy new viewer users. If you find all the new viewers "very laggy" and "super buggy" it might be that your computer is not up to the task of dealing well with intensive graphics programs?

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What about the voice bugged with 1.23 ? What about media on prims ?

Voice isn't communication, it's blabbering. Never used it, don't even have a microphone on my computer.

Media on prims? I heard about it but couodn't figure it out in 5 minutes so it's dead fior me. Works only with new viewers anyway so I can't use it for quite a while anyway.

 

Firestorm has a V2 look and feel not a V3 look and feel , even with the last update with v3 choice . They have started to integrate some V3 code only since this month .

Yes, exactly. the 24880 or what's it called. I can make it so it looks almost like Phoenix but still sucks in huge parts.

 

It s wrong to think than you will have better FPS with elder viewers.
When for instance you check this blog who has compared many viewers , and trying to have the same situation,
you can see that the viewers based v1.23 ( phoenix for instance ) are really slower than the newer viewers

Oh, I know that blog. But my experience is different from that. Best FPS in combination with a  usable GUI I got from Phoenix 1185.

 

So , explain me how you can loose IMs when you hear a little sound easily recognizable

Sound? Don't tell me you have silly SL sounds on? I expect my computer to be quiet so I shut down everything and listen to rocking iTunes.

 

The radar 1.23 ? There were no radar in 1.23 . You make the confusion with other viewers

No, you are confused. I stated that I haven't used any LL viewer since 1.17.3 or so. Only tested some for short periods. I was refering to Phoenix radar. A function clearly possible with V1 technology but ignored by LL.

Notecards work exactly the same . They are items from servers

I don't care where they come from. Doesn't everything in SL come from a  server? Anyway, when someone sends me a NC I expect to get clearly notified about that event. In a popup box and/or in chat. That's what I meant with communication.

 

With V3 , you can have your friendlist in a window , open your communication window and having the two windows not overlapped .

Yes, that's exactly my horror scenario :( having more than 1 window open on screen at any time is exactly the filter I was talking about earlier. A filter between me, my avie and the world. I want it all in one window! As small as possible, one click and it's gone.

 

Is it a pain ? The final user is interested by the content, the functionnality , not by the technology

Yes, it's a huge pain. Puts a huge stress on my weak and slow and bandswith starved connection too. Once I'm logged into SL I never open any other  applications, like browsers and **bleep**. There is a time for everything but no time for everything at once. I don't know how you got to that technology thing. I guess being derefered to an external server just to look at some boring profile is much more hitec than just doing it inworld.

 

The interest to follow someone , is to be able to read his feed who he publishes.
The interest to be followed , is to publish some comments , some links , some pictures ( YOU DON T PAY THE UPLOAD OF PICTURES ), your location in your feed to the people who follow you .

If only I knew what a feed is I'd probably be impressed. Do we need that feed in SL? Does it make me crash less, speed up sim crossings, render the worldmap any faster, will it avoid TP into nirvana? Not? Then I don't have no use for that stuff.

 

Personnaly i see 10 l$ saved of my pocket . Not a lot of , but after several months of sl , it counts , and i see a big interest in this

I don't see a difference. When I save a pic to invent I have to pay 10 bucks, if I save it to HD I pay zilch. And my profile pic I only change every few weeks or so, so the 10L isn't that problematic. Only that I don't know in what format I need to crop it these days: 3:4 like in the old profile or squared like in the new?

"Will we soon have to click some "Like" boxes?"
Where is the problem ?

No problem really. It's just a hilarious thought to think about all the facetwitters in SL now. If people want to "follow" "feeds" it's good and fine I guess. But what has it to do with SL???


"Good FPS, meshes, outfits and less crashes are no functions, they are the core basics in a viewer."
Excuse me , but as user , i dont care if i should name this "function" or "core" . I care about the final result . That 's all .
The meshes don t exist with viewer 1.23
The outfits don t exist with viewer 1.23
The physics don t exist with viewer 1.23
The tatoos don t exist with viewer 1.23
the alpha mask don t exist with viewer 1.23
5 types of thing in my inventory that i can t see with viewer 1.23

All these things I see perfectly fine with Phoenix 1.6.1600. And that one is kinda 1.23 based isn't it? Just that those TPV guys made it more clever than LL was able to do.

And same like you I also care about the final result. But seeing stuff isn't a result in my eyes, seeing stuff should just work. Functionality is what enables me to do my "job" in SL, to live an active lifestyle. And everything from V2 on up stands in my way. LL are purposely dumbing down their viewers, TPV are trying to empower us as much as possible.


"Tools are functions. And Phoenix/FS traditionally have much more of those than LL."
But phoenix is not viewer 1.23
Are you ready to delete all the tools of phoenix to come back in the viewer 1.23 ?

No! Never! That's why I wonder so much why you're trying to advocate LL's **bleep** here so much.


"Also most of the stuff you get with modern LL viewers was first introduced by some or the other TPV."
But viewer 1.23 is not TPV

AGAIN: I never used 1.23!!! But I know my beloved Phoenix is based on 1.2xxxx . Just a lot better.



"When you come from a long history of using Emerald and other TPV it feels just bad to switch back to LL. Is like visiting a ghetto."
Big words ... Have you lived in a ghetto ? This sentence is nearly an offense .

 

I have lived in as much a ghetto as you can get in northern Europe; that means the poorer working class quarters of town. And since we moved to South Africa I've seen some real ghettos (townships and informal settlements they are called here).  The gov'ment is treating them with the same disregard as LL is treating their own viewers. That's why people want to get out of there. Just like most LL customers are using TPVs rather than the lab's own products.


I have never said i wouldn t like your car . I have said you can compare a car ( 10000 $ ) and a viewer (free )
And to change a viewer has no cost , to change a car has a cost .
To keep an old car can be understood because it has a cost

My argument exactly! Since viewers come for free I don't see a reason why I should stick with the old car (LL) and don't switch to a better model (Phoenix/FS).

 

"but unfortunately the viewer as made by LL isn't as nice as the various TPVs."
Viewer 1.23 is nicer than TPV ?

No. I stated exactly the contrary in my above sentence. TPVs are mostly much nicer than 1.23, V2, V3 or whatever LL has made or is actually doing.

 

A word about your Phoenix OT:

I know Phoenix is based on Greenlife, which was based on Emerald, which was based on Snowglobe which was based on ... blah blah blah. It's all an evolution. And Phoenix is a driving force in that evolution. When you claim Phoenix hasn't changed or developed since years it's wrong. They always had more funcdtions than LL viewers, and they continue to do so. More stability and better fps as well.

Of course  I know Phoenix is stil based on V1 technology but they made the best of implementing as much V2 and V3 stuff into it as possible. I know it can't go on forever, that's why I slowly try to adjust myself to V3 viewers.

Let's switch over to FS. FS is a step ahead of the LL V3 too, I guess. I haven't really used it much but it looks somehow more sympathetic than LL. Feels better, feels almost as nice as Phoenix.


But let s do a comparison witan another TPV viewer
What have been the improvements in one year of Kisten ( the viewer doesn t exist anymore for pesrsonal reasons )?
A lot of . He was alone . But he didn t need to update the viewer , he has just needed to pull a branch from the official vieweer and to apply his own changes . He had more time to be creative.

Yes, I know what Lee has done and why he stopped. He went the wrong way tho. He used the official V2 viewers which rendered his viewer kinda unusabe for me. Beleive me I tried various of his viewers and was always impressed yb the stability and the possibilities ... but, alas, the GUI just bugs me to no end. So I stayed away. I'm a middle aged woman, not very flexible, not very good with computers and rather a creature of habit these days. I'm not on facetwitter, I don't have an iPad or even a cellphone. So all that new stuff doesn't matter to me. And now they wanna force me to adjust my good old viewer to all the modern stuff just for a bunch of noobs?


The phoenix team were several .
But the phoenix team was too busy to try to update phoenix , that they couldn t offer to you , as user , new tools. They have never been able to be creative and to offer you new tools because they were too busy to update some 1.23 code

Yes, that's the way to go! Evolve instead of reinventing the wheel. And while they were busy updating the old code they still managed to roll out stuff that is advanced over the original LL stuff. Kudos!

But not to worry, I know exactly that Phoenix 1600 (which is running just fine and unbugggy for me) will be the last Phoenix. That's why I downloaded  FS already and will have a look at Niran's Exodus. Since I know that Niran was updating Kirsten's Viewer since a long time I'm a bit weary tho.

 

 

 


 



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i have every viewer i ever downloaded since 2006..

i don't throw anything away..you should see my inventory :P

well there were all those freebies..i did toss those lol

i can look and see if i have the 1.23.5 if you haven't found it already..

there was a period where i missed a few LL viewer releases once the tpv's standards were to be stand alone  rather than needing LL's installed..

 

 

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But, but Orca threw a spit ball at me in finger painting class!!!

Did not! :smileyfrustrated:

/me pouts, stomps her size 0 feet and runs out of the classroom as tears are welling up behind her thick glasses


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Well, you should TRY V3 before you dismiss it out of hand.  No, it's not V1.  But it's also not that tech afterbirth V2, either. 

It's very simple to use.  Inventory is a button on the left - touch it and a floating window appears with inventory that you can move anywhere (or shrink to a bar up top).  Same with all the conversations, maps, LMs, scripts, etc.  Gone is the horrid sidebar (may it burn).  And even with the floating windows, you get a great FPS improvement even on old hardware and weaker computers. 

I get great FPS on my supercomputer.  I get doubledigit FPS on my wussy laptop with settings dialed low.  Now that the stupid sidebar is gone, I've no reason to even consider a TPV.  While I understand people becoming comfortable with a certain UI and not wanting to change what they are familiar with, it's not an acceptable reason to refuse so many of the vast and powerful changes that have taken place beneath the hood.  And if you use it for a week, actually use it instead of retreating to your familiar programs everytime you can't find something, in a week's time you'll be just as comfortable with V3 as you are with V1.

It's the Internet.  Change happens, or you find yourself unable to use it.  I started out using Mosaic -- if I stuck with that all the way to today because I didn't want to learn a new browser, I'd be unable to access any content on the web today.  SL is much the same way.  I can understand hesitancy about trying V3 after the doggy droppings that was V2.  But V3 is nothing at all like V2.  You should give it a real chance before dismissing it out of hand.

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When I arrived in SL about 20month ago I started with V2 and moved then to Marins RLV which was the same as V2.

I never tried to convince anybody to use V2, aven if I had never any problems using it, on the other side I have been massively harrased because I used V2, I was blamed when I saw others ruthed and I was also blamed for causing lag to others.
Of course I switched to Phönix just because I was fed up with the harrassment especially of older residents (havin no second name made the perfect victim, how should I understand any of that technical stuff being a newbie ...)

When I tried phönix I was shocked how it looked, kind of nostalgic, like windows 95 or even 3.11, but what made it unusable for me was the fact that I didn't find an outfit folder, no physics and a pie menu whoch couldn't be less intuitive (is ist possible to make more clicks just to remove some clothes?)

What I want to say is that sometimes changes are neccessary, but nobody can force you to go with them. As example you are allowed to work with DOS 6.0, maybe you like it because it's simple and stable. But if you choose to do so, don't expect compatibility with others, and don't even think about trying to convice them to go back to DOS6.0 just because Windows7 sucks, maybe they like the features that Windows 7 offers, just the way I like the features that V2/V3 offers.

Others showed where you can find V1 based Viewers, but please, stop the saying "it worked, why change it" (Ford T worked, it did everything a car should do, who wants ABS, electric windows, driving assistand and GPS anyway, it's just a drag to learn all this new stuff anyway  ..)

 

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Hello all,

 

I have follow the discussion about the viewers now for a long time.

Myself I have use sl viewer 1,2 and 3. I have also try some other

viewers. To get use at viewer 2 it had cost me weeks to get use at

viewer 3 some days.When my laptop broke I had buy a game laptop

and also get a fast internet connection. The performance was great,

in a few seconds everything was raise and all was fast and no lag.

But after the viewer 2.5 when you can have more than 25 groups things

are changing. More lag, everything is slower, raising take a long time.

And my laptop and connection are the same. Iam still using viewer 3

because I like to try new things. But I ask myself why Lindenlab not give

the members  a choice?? Why is it not possible to have 2 viewers??

A very simple one like the viewer 1 and a advantages one. And maybe also

restrict in the simple one how much items you may have. Too much items

causing also  a lot of lag. If you get more items in the simple one than they

could transfer to the advantages one. So the advantage one would more use

for builders, or special things you would like to do or  simple because you like 

that viewer. And others who like viewer 1 they can use that and if you don't need

all those advantages things. And if you restrict the items you can have in viewer 1

it would also good to use by raids in the fighting sims and by events with a lot of people.

On this way everybody is happy. Maybe what I am saying is not possible or too expensive

or people find it maybe stupid what I am saying. But instead of complaining we can think

how we can make everybody happy, because I can understand both sides. On the roleplay

sim I am playing, I am the only one who is using the viewer 3.I think that is a pity that  people

would  not even try it. ojeeeeee this become all too long what I am writing. I will stop, before you

all get headache ;-)

 

Bye Bye Anna,

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Why are they unfinable? it is very simple when something works LL feels the need to destory it and come up with trash viewers like viewer 2 and viewer 3. Instead of doing this they really should be working on redeveloping snowglobe 1.4.2 as release and snowglobe 1.5.0 as release candidate to be short LL will never learn in fact they dont even have a clue what we (the residential users) like to see in a viewer, LL just dont care and LL employees do not play SL like we do.

I am running viewer 1.23.5 and enjoying my SL for as long if possible, When viewer 1.23.5 gets blocked from acces and there is no official viewer available with the looks and functionality friendlyness of viewer 1.23.5 then bye bye SL!! there are more grids and virtual worlds out there you know.

 

(P.S. Lets just pray for SL that those Lindens will read posts like this, Although i dont think they do wake up guys!)

 

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Hellespont Hoorenbeek wrote:

I am running viewer 1.23.5 and enjoying my SL for as long if possible, When viewer 1.23.5 gets blocked from acces and there is no official viewer available with the looks and functionality friendlyness of viewer 1.23.5 then bye bye SL!!

Hey, anybody know where I can get Ford 1896 automobile?

 

Ford 1896 149.jpg

 

I loath the new modern cars with all their complicated things. Like the steering wheel! It just makes me mad! The stick is the only proper easy and natural way to steer a car. It makes driving very enjoyable experience. Who needs all the fancy modern stuff. Car manufacturers should listen to their customers' wishes more. Pfffttt...

:matte-motes-evil-invert:

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Your laptop is not the market Linden Lab is looking for.  A first generation flat bed 1/4 ton pick up is also not what the transportation of goods across the roads industry (truckers) are looking for either. 

Keep up or get left behind..........a fact of life everywhere.  Especially in the technology field.  Are you still using an analog cell phone?

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I see a lot of people arguing about the merits of the UI in v1, v2 and v3, but honestly none of that matters. The fact is there are several known exploits against 1.23.5. There are many different ways to upload animations that will instantly crash 1.23. There is even a way to upload sounds that will instantly crash 1.23 and allow for arbitrary code execution. Yes, that's right, people can install malware on your computer just because you log into the grid with 1.23. I don't care if the UI in 1.23 is God's gift to mankind, that doesn't sound like the kind of viewer I want to be running.

I also see a lot of people coming up with conspiracy theories about LL trying to force people to use v3. But you know what, LL kept 1.23 on the download page for almost 2 years after v2 was released. They gave you time to find an alternative but now your time is up.

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My mom actually does want that car. She absolutely hates having all those gadgets...   I too like the 1.23.5 viewer. For me, it is the only thing that actually does work on my computer. I've tried both the viewer 2 and 3. and they are much slower. My computer is brand new 16gb RAM 3T Hard drive and a 256 hard drive added. And compared to Viewer 2 and 3, the old 1.23.5 runs faster... Go figure!  

First they added system folders that no one asked for. Extra calling card folders that are redundant. I delete ALL my calling cards, why should I have to keep that damn folder around when I never use it??

If LL cared at all about its user base, they would at least make it easier to customize their interface, including being able to delete those extra system folders they added with Viewer 2.  They would also bring back the silver skin option. I can't see anything with the new viewer, the buttons and text are way way too dark. 

I wonder if LL forgot that they do have vision impaired users who can't see dark colors. Black and green, black and grey don't mix too well for some people, including me. 

So as one other poster stated. Until they block 1.23.5 from accessing SL, that's the viewer I will continue to use. 

 

 

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