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Cummere Mayo

Questions about new TPV policy. (Questions only please.)

36 posts in this topic


Feldspar Millgrove wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:

what tpv's  gave back then has nothing to do with these changes..

all those client side great features are not what is falling under these changes..

it's the features that can mess with the world itself for people that decided not to use those viewers..

I think you perhaps misunderstand the technicalities of how Second Life works.

 

no i haven't..i'm sure i could have worded it better ..but really my meaning was that only some things are falling under the hammer and that tpvs will still hold a lot of value and still be worth getting..that was my main goal in what i said..

i know what client side is..

i did not mention server side because we are talking about viewers and both clients don't have those same things client side..

the world was meant as a users perspective through a window  not as the server..sorry for not being so clear about it..

i just seen someone upset and sound like tpv's were done and dead..i was just trying to show they are long from it..hehehe

 

 

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Thanks, Innula .. appreciate the feedback ..... and .. the question is directed at Oz. Personally, I'm tired of assumptions and guesses, and prefer some definitive answers from the Lab.

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Have you read his/LL's comments over at Tateru's blog?   There, LL says

It is not always possible to write a rule or a policy in a way that is at once simple, unambiguous, and covers all future possibilities. Some judgement is required, and we believe that the developers of third party viewers are quite capable both of making good judgements and of communicating with us about what they would like to do to contribute to the Second Life experience.

If as a user you are not confident that a particular third party viewer is compliant with the policy for any reason, you should not use it. If developers are unsure whether a feature would be in violation of the policy, we encourage them to discuss it with Oz Linden.

That suggests to me they're not going to commit on their attitude to any hypothetical new features, one way or the other, without seeing exactly what's proposed and how it's proposed to be done.

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This is once again a power-grab by Linden Labs. TPVs have been at the edge of innovation and tend to be faster, more reliable and less laggy than the standard viewer.  Furthermore, Linden Lab has never yet been able to 'work with' any of the residents or resident groups, as has been made painfully clear by the Community Gateway program.

This is little more than a thinly veiled attempt to prevent new residents from getting a choice of a better viewer.  My question really boils down to:  when will Linden Lab finally start paying heed to their residents and start to fix the problems instead of bullying those that try to?  (SVC-1509 for example)

 

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I have a couple questions I need to find answers to before I can go further with what I'm trying to do.

I want to be able to host bot av's from a custom thing on my web server, and in reading the TPV policys have hit a snag.

I do not plan on hosting a lot of them, but won't go into the details of that.

Was not sure where to direct my questions so here I am.

First I do not want to share my source or distribute it, it will run on my server.  Although will give all credit for what I use to make my thing to whom's tihngs I've used.  Apparently sharing the source from LL.   That said in searching the wiki I came across this:

 http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Third_Party_Policy_and_Viewer_Directory_FAQ

 

What about viewers developed only for personal use?

I develop a third-party viewer based on Linden Lab's source code.  My viewer is only for my personal use.  I do not distribute it to others.  Am I required to make my source code available to others?

No, if your third-party viewer is based on our source code and is only for your personal use and not distributed to others, you do not need to make your source code available to others. Of course, if you've made improvements or fixes, we would very much appreciate it if you chose to contribute them.

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Ok, well is it personal use if I'm the only one with the source installed and running on one of my machines?   But others use it via having a account with me there by connecting to the grid with their bot accounts via what is programmed on the web server for the AV's actions?  I'm not distrubting it at all but is a bit muddy as others will be able to use it for their SL accounts.  So prehaps not "personal", I don't know.  What defines personal use in this case?  Am I the only one using it as I'm the only one who has it installed with no distro?

If I'm forced to share my source I'll just suck it up I guess and watch the bot service explosion on the grid.  Although does sharing it if I have to include source that has nothing to do with LL as well, as in having to share the app in its whole?

/////////////////////


Ok now the real question that has actually haulted my designs for my thing.

From the TPV:

Prohibited Features and Functionality,

If you are a user or Developer of Third-Party Viewers, the following features and functionality are expressly prohibited in all Third-Party Viewers:

e. You must not use or distribute features or functionality that transmit Second Life usernames or passwords anywhere except to Linden Lab servers. Third-Party Viewers must not retain a user’s username or password anywhere except on the user’s own system.


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I have no problems with the first part of this, but with the second.  If my hosting is to truely keep bots running on the grid I need to account for them being logged out from time to time for one reason or another by the grid.  Hosting is in theroy not suppose to require you to install anything on your own systems to use it or to keep the hosting service running.  The idea is for a web server to do this for you.  There are a few bot hosting companys that have sprung up on the grid and they offer bots that log themself's in when logged out.

So how can this be done with out storing the information to do so?  Can I do this with out breaking the TPV by means of only storing them as encrypted?  Do they then become something else as in not a exact copy of the data in its raw form? There has to be some way for the existing bot hosting to provide the service with out breaking this point of the TPV and is all I've come up with at this point.  But do need to know if this is acceptable before I can go further. 

I will deal with what ever source sharing I have to so as to comply with the LGPL and GPL.

Thanks a bunch for reading.

 

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LULZ with you then, suppose I'm asking in the wrong place.

But in thinking about it, my problem all boils down to who the "user" is, am I the user as I'm the only one with it.  Or are those that subscribe to the service also users?

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I would suggest you contact Oz Linden direct and ask him.   He's the guy whose interpretation is the one that matters, I think.

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I feel a bit weird about bothering them, as I'm sure there is all sorts of nonsence they have to deal with.

Do you know of a directory so I don't end up waisting the wrong persons time?

Will check Oz's profile and see if that gives me any clues.

Thanks

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All Linden email addresses follow the same format:  firstname@lindenlab.com 

So I would try oz at lindenlab.com

Or, which might be better, contact him via the messaging thing on his profile, at least in the first instance.

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Writting the email now, as he perfers that as stated in his profile.  I think your right that he may be the go to guy for these issues.


Thanks so much for the help.

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