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Cinnamon Lohner

Third Party Viewer Policy Changes Comments

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Add let's say 3 or 4k of memory per avatar to the heap of MBs called SL scripting, not to mention adding around 0.000 ms to the scripttime. I think you are right, a very very serious issue. Why can't you be glad there's an easy solution to your problem?

Some people are indeed pretty damn clueless... You can do two things, keep whining and let your business go into the dumpster, or rescript your item which will take you the better part of a smoking break... Yes the updating of your current userbase will be somewhat of an issue, I'll give you that.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

Add let's say 3 or 4k of memory per avatar to the heap of MBs called SL scripting, not to mention adding around 0.000 ms to the scripttime. I think you are right, a very very serious issue. Why can't you be glad there's an easy solution to your problem?

Some people are indeed pretty damn clueless... You can do two things, keep whining and let your business go into the dumpster, or rescript your item which will take you the better part of a smoking break... Yes the updating of your current userbase will be somewhat of an issue, I'll give you that.

No, actually, there's a third option that we clueless whiners have been pursuing: getting the Lab to understand that they're setting a disastrously creator-hostile precedent by destroying in-world content while at the same time shooting themselves in the foot w.r.t. backend system load.  And that latter has nothing to do with the adboard / employee online application of this LSL function.  Some of us clueless whiners have seen this function used for a lot more than that, not all "smoking break" rescriptable.

And I think the odds are good that we'll get the changes we'll need.  See Oz's comment on the jira.  Or maybe he's just another clueless whiner.

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I am sure there are other pros and cons to this entire matter. I was responding to one person in particular who had a very particular issue which can easily be resolved.

Did I call anyone a whiner btw let alone an entire group of people? You might want to reread my post.

"Clueless" was poorly phrased, let's replace that with selfish or self centered then....

If you want all people who have a problem with this change to be one group for some reason, which is pretty black and white, you might want to consider there is another group for whom LL is making these changes. I do not know their motivations, but I am 100% sure they were not to break content or possibly add load. That is apparantly not as big an issue as the issues were with the function working the way it has always worked. Privacy has to be one of the dominating reasons I'd say and I can only support that.

There is a JIRA on the ll function by someone who didn't like others to be able to see his/her online status and it got a pretty big following. I think you're aware of the JIRA, as I recall it you posted as one of the last people, or even the very last one. I could be mistaken on that though...

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Typical corporate America.  Take an actual issue (some people want to hide online) and turn it into a money grabbing, competition killing comedy of errors.

I was thinking of getting a full sim but I am rethinking that now.  

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I still like my solution:

If you are really that worried about people knowing if you are online or not, just stay online 24/7. No script could ever let anyone know if you are actually afk or not! :)

Then we could just leave things as they are...

 

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I stopped going to the beta grid 2005/6, nor do I have any desire to be one of LL's guinea pigs. I've been using the temp image upload since I started using Emerald years ago.

Although, I have to admit the idea of all content creators going to the beta grid to work and only logging into the main grid to update vendors etc is quite amusing. I wonder how much that would reduce the number of people on the main grid on a daily basis. :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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the privacy argument is a non argument.  ther's several legitimate ways to find out someone's online status wihtout resorting to true online status or scripts that check online status.  Mind you, it's the same vocal minority that howls privacy privacy privacy, that aren't going to be happy till there's nothing left worth doing.  All so they can pretend they have perfect privacy, when anyone that knows anything about the internet knows there's no such thing as 100% perfect privacy, short of unplugging your computer, burrying it in concrete, then living in the woods off grubs and snakes and small rodents.

 

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Yup, and in the meantime we break thousands of pieces of content, even decimating a few whole industires, most of which cannot be realistically or easily fixed.  Despite the ignorant protestaions of some,..

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the Labs is working on a local texture preview for the creator to view the textures, like imprudence has, temp upload Oz said should had never been brought to any TPV, cause its in violation. but Local texture preview is ok, and they have something already just need to finish it

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Oz said that Temp Image Upload should never have been allowed?

Well, of course not, It means that content creators have to pay 10 L$ every time they want to check that they have a texture looking correct.

Or they can set up a private OpenSim server on their own machine, pay nothing for uploads until the final product is complete, and bilk the Lindens out of maybe a whole US Dollar.

 

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Well, but I don't think that's what he meant.  Rather, I understand the comment to mean that using the temp image upload path was an inefficient way to achieve the intended results -- and that sounds correct to me, compared to keeping the image local to the viewer while previewing it.  Making that practical for end-users would need some server-side coordination, so LL would need to be involved to make the better approach viable, and we've seen that time and again in TPV features.

Indeed, I also understand him to be saying exactly that, and it's true: a bit more coordination between TPV and LL viewer development can avoid suboptimal results and reduce rework.  But LL has to step-up to make that happen. The change in TPV policy alone doesn't work; that would merely encourage the spread of rogue viewers (or worse), unless accompanied by better LL partnership with TPV development teams.

Hence, with this TPV policy change, the Lindens have really put their own feet to the fire.  I just wonder how many Lindens realize that.

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Kwakkelde Kwak wrote:

There is a JIRA on the ll function by someone who didn't like others to be able to see his/her online status and it got a pretty big following.

 

You can't determine "following" from that really.

49 votes isn't large

60 watchers will also include many who see this as a negative impact.

 

 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

You can't determine "following" from that really.

49 votes isn't large

60 watchers will also include many who see this as a negative impact.


49 is a lot more than most, but that's not at all what I ment. I ment if anyone wants to be constructive on this matter, they should focus their energy on a JIRA like that, where it's certain a Linden will read it and possibly reply, rather than a forum for users. This includes both people who have problems with the change and people who want the change.

This entire subject doesn't really affect me. The only online indicator I've ever used was owned by me, rezzed on my own land, I don't use anything at the moment using the function in question and I doubt I ever will. If I do I will make it work.

I like my privacy, I like to be able to build, I don't like my items borked. Linden Lab likes this aswell for its users I'd say. So maybe they overlooked some things, that's very possible. Again, use the JIRA to let LL know, that will do more good than telling people on the forums how you feel about the change.

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Yes indeed but the correct solution would be for LL to implement llRequestAgentData that respected the "show me as offline" setting in the first place.

Privacy respected, content not broken.

 

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Yes indeed but the correct solution would be for LL to implement llRequestAgentData that respected the "show me as offline" setting in the first place.

Privacy respected, content not broken.

That's probably not the best way, but with the desired effect. The way you (and ohers) want it as I understand, is by having a box in your viewer you can tick on or off, forgive me if that's not a correct assumption. This requires a check every time the command/function is executed, which is probably on a timer. Not a big deal I think, but it might be better if they changed the function to one similair to the money command where you have to grant the object access. That way you have to actively allow the script to see your status, which is a good thing by itself. Another way might be something that includes the requestpermissions command or something similair to that. I'm not that good a scripter, but something along this line sounds perfectly fine to me.

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Not quite.  All I am suggesting as the correct fix is that when you choose "show my status as offline" which is already a viewer option, that the llRegquestAgentData respect that and return offline.  It achieves what is asked for by both parties.

There is no need for an extra viewer checkbox, it's there already and has been for a very long time in all viewers.

There has been mention that it will cause too much load on the back end, well that's for LL to architect around, maybe a throttle on the number of requests from the same object.

Granting permission will not work because that assumes that the object is already owned by the person who wants to be queried for their online status.

As many others have already stated, there are many use cases where the object that needs to determine the online/offline status is not owned by the agent in question and if it's not owned by them, they have no way to grant permission.

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Cinnamon Lohner wrote:

So am I reading this correctly?  Third party viewers can no longer display what viewer another person is using??

--Cinn

Are we forgetting what government is in place here?

They don't want tunas with good taste or tunas that taste good, they only want lots of tuna, meaning influx of hard cash from outside.

All other considerations are tertiary at best and moot.

Love it or leave it.  I love it, don't you?

 

 

 

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I am sad to see this change would be made effective....I have been using services that would be effected by this policy change, and they are an important part of my communications with others in SL.  I don't want them to be made useless, please don't implement this idea!!!  I have been in SL for almost five years now.....and have used some programs that this change ruin.

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You must have missed the "something similair to that" part of my post. It would need a new function, but it would be like the ones I mentioned: getting a dialog, granting or denying permissions.

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Greetings,

I run a business that informs users of the online status of Second Life users anywhere in the world using a PC Client, Web Notifications, Cellphone Lists and in-world HUD tools. This business has been running for 6 years now. This new policy and removal of script functionality will terminate my business and outrage all of my users.

What do my users use the service for?
When a loved one comes online, they get a notification and they then log into SL to be with them.
Business managers track all their employee shifts and make sure they are online when they should be.
Individual users will choose not to log into SL if there is someone else already online they want to avoid.
An out-of-world buddy list that can keep notes and color preferences.
But most importantly, a PC notification system where if any friend logs on, they can choose to log in too and join them.

How would this be better solved?
Make privacy choices the same for scripts as for viewers. If someone wants to log-in as invisible, they can, but dont destroy all scripting functionality because a few users dont know how to use the Mute button.

Overreaction:
Removal of vital scripting code is an example of going too far. Privacy may be important for some users, but there are others who want to have their status known, so they can have the opportunity of joining friends or having notifications sent to them after they log in. Instantly setting all users into stealth mode will have a majority negative impact on the user experience, affecting everyone, all Second Life users, instead of just expanding stealth mode to hide those that want to be hidden.


Hats off to you Linden Labs, for wanting to close down more of your in-world businesses.
--
Kae Fox
http://myslon.com
Chimera Development LLC

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I was alerted on the fact that some features may disapears in the future… like know who is connected on SL…

Personaly I use a lot this to know when I must go connected on SL… when my friends are online… or when I must comme to meet someone I need to see (like a customer or seller).

 

I dont see how this is an attempt to the privacy, because when we are connected we could see who is connected.

 

For this I vote for the maintain of these sfunctionalities.

 

please dont change

 

thank you

 

sorry for my engish, englis is not my native language!

 

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