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Cinnamon Lohner

Third Party Viewer Policy Changes Comments

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Yes, this is a troublesome statement:

"You must not provide any feature that alters the shared experience of the virtual world in any way not provided by or accessible to users of the latest released Linden Lab viewer."

At first reading I thought perhaps text based viewers would get axed under this.  But removing features doesn't seem to be the target.  My second impression was the RLV could come under attack by this policy.

Does anyone know what current TPV feature(s) is targeted here?

--Cinn

 

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AIUI, an example given at the meeting was the old Emerald "Illegal" attachment points, which didn't look right to anyone using a viewer that couldn't see them.

I don't see how RLV is part of "the shared experience."  It alters my experience, certainly, if I'm using it, but so do enhanced building tools.    I suspect it's more aimed at things like parcel windlight, but I'm not sure.

Certainly someone with whom I was discussing it just after the meeting, who'd attended the meeting and is very much involved in RLV development, seemed quite sanguine about it.

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Actually I only use the LL Viewer.  You can bitch about it if you want but just wanted other people to know that this thread was not intended as a gripe session but an information exchange about the latest policy changes.  I would ask that posters keep that in mind, but unlike some people, I'm not foolish enough to believe people won't hijack my thread.

--Cinn

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Well, as a viewer developer, I have what I think are legitimate concerns about these policy changes, especially the part that specifically prohibits the creation of new features. When you characterize that as "bitching", it really minimizes what I do.

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This is Linden Lab's worst decision to date. The SL default viewer is a sub-par experience, poorly programmed and tremendously laggy and cumbersome.  By hindering third party viewers, LL is ensuring that they will alienate a large number of users,  we will continue to see a decline in numbers.... and I don't need to be Nostradamus to point towards what that will entail for Second Life.

 

Very poorly played, Linden Labs. People have been able to provide users with superior products. Instead of acknowledging their superiority, you are crippling them so that an inferior product is used more. 

 

This must be what business looks like in Looking-Glass Land.

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1) You could look at it that way, but I've seen zero evidence that anyone views Viewer Tags as a privacy violation, and tons of evidence that they are, and have been for a years, and useful feature that everyone likes.

 

2) "Common visual experience" sounds nice, sure, until you think about it for two seconds. What about the description "common" is inherently equal to "better" or even "good"? If everyone on Earth only had black-and-white vision, that would be a common visual experience. Would that be better than if some people could see in color?

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Very wise.

The differences of experiences at the moment are way too big due to too many different features per 3rd party viewers compared to LL's program. It distroys homogenenity and the differences are so big that it can come to very serious misunderstandings between residents like the unability to share a windlight setting upto the question to ask someone to rezz a standard cube to demonstrate something where the latter rezzes a huge prim because he had it set as standard in his phoenix viewer and then blaming me to mess up his build, while he did it purely himself and i had no knowledge what viewer he was using. Meanwhile totally bullying me. A kind of low life person in rl no doubt, but...

All the different viewers have become a serious mess when it comes to a joined shared experience.

Wise !!

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UHUH!, i have a superb quality high end excellent rl car that no one else can see while it needs service at some point, LOL. Would that be handy? The maker claims it is excellent no less.

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Very UNWISE.

 

1. Killing true online status- This requires fixing on LL server side, and by eliminating this feature, now stores using online status boards for their staff aren't allowed to work, and there's still ways to tell even from the stock LL viewer if someone is online or offline.  All you've done is listen to a vocal minority whining about privacy "rights"

2. Killing viewer tags, and system information.  This eliminates  the average person seeing just how few actually use the stock LL viewer, and how many use a third party viewer.  It also breaks features used by several TPV's when offering in world support, such as a command that the user has to confirm when trying to get system info to diagnose a fix.  That, and people LIKE the ability to change the color of their tags.

 

3.  Seriously?  Any features that alter the "common viewer experience"????  That is so poorly worded to include almost anything not in the stock viewer.  It already seems temp uploads, widely useful for people creating custom content for others, is under the crosshairs for this one.  How long did TPV's have Avatar Physics before LL finally decided to add it? 

 

These policy changes sound more like "We don't like how TPV's are doing a better job than us, so we're going to kick you all in the gonads and cripple everything you like till you all stop making anything that isn't like ours, and you go away"

 

This seriously hits my anger button.

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As far as I read it, it could mean that the project has to go through LL's process, and wait for LL to impliment it before TPV's can, but I could be wrong, as I'm not an expert on marketing and legal language twisting

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I'm so angry right now I have no words to describe how angry I am.

 

What is LL's goal with breaking temp image uploads? Are they trying to push those of us who are on fixed, limited or low/no incomes out of SL and leave it only for those who have money?

You are taking away every feature I use a TPV for and have remained in SL for 7 years for. There is no reason whatsoever these features can not be added to the LL viewer.

Just as I was starting to have a little faith in Rodvik and LL, you have to go and pull this.

I'm not saying people don't have a right to thier privacy and others should respect people's privacy. But there is a such thing as going too far and that is precisely what LL is doing. Going too far.

 

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To everyone who's saying "RLV is safe", I hope you're right of course, but do you know that for sure? It seems to alter the "shared experience" significantly, as far as I can tell.

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it seems more aimed at the possibility of things, like the old emerald attatch points, or temp uploads, than things like RLV.  though removing that would destroy the communities that use it, from childcare (changing kids clothing, making them walk with the parent)  to friends looking out for one another (narcoleptics falling asleep in clubs/stores needing rescued, lagging and neding help navigating around a crowd to stick with froends) to the BDSM community (do I even need to point out what it's used for here?)

Though, this wouldn't be the first time LL's shot themselves in the foot, making things difficult.

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Personally, I think the most damage this will cause is not the loss of true online status, nor the loss of being able to see the viewer tag (which I believe is just so people don't see how few use LL's viewer).. but the repression of devs for future development. Having to submit things devs have created to LL for 1 their approval and 2 to wait for LL to add it to their viewer first (which will take months).. THAT is far more important and damaging then the things that will go immediately..

 

 

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