Toysoldier Thor Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Sorry I am not familiar with all the details of how Aditi works since I have only logged into the SL Beta grid (I assume is Aditi) to go experiment with MESH. I am assuming (likely wrongly so) that this half-baked feature only works on a specific sim within the beta grid or should it be visible on ALL sims that I stand on in the Beta Grid? Secondly and of bigger concern is that this new RECEIVE ALL folder that likely LL will be forcing upon us regardless of our 100% rejection of the idea will only be visible to any SL Resident that has a new (yet unreleased) version of an LL or TPV viewer???? Please tell me LL is not serious about this? If this is true, then here are a few major concens: Mesh has been out since August. I can tell you with 100% assurance that to this day a very larger portion of SL Residents STILL dont have the upgraded viewers to see mesh! In the pas 1.5 months I have been creating and placing Mesh Art Statues at my expanded Gallery and I have invited several of my friends to come visit and the % that still cannot see my MESH statues is about 40% of all those I invite. They either cant be bother to upgrade, are scared the new viewers will be unstable and are happy with the stability they have, or they dont think Mesh is a big deal to them and do see the need to waste even 10 minutes to upgrade. So.... if this new feature will be rolled out to the main grid (as I suspect LL will ram this stupid idea in regardless), what is the transition plan? What will happen to in-coming inventory for the vast majority of SL Residents that do not upgrade to yet another new version of all these viewers to allow the function to work? Where will my inventory go if I am using Phoenix 1.6? This is a concern if LL rams this ALL-IN-ONE feature or even if LL needs to deploy the DD MP-SHOPPING-BAG folder into production. If its based on the same underlying structure and requires ALL residents to upgrade in order to receive goods they bought from MP.... how will LL deal with this? If this feature is part of the DD service.... are you telling me that LL is only NOW starting to work on the DD Shopping Bag folder for all resident viewers??? If this is the case, then either DD will not be going live on the main grid for another 6+ months until ALL viewers have the upgraded code to support DD, or LL will ram it in and we will all see a reduce MP sales traffic and a nightmare of customer complaints when they shop on MP and their purchased goods go into neverland because they dont have the required viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I have no idea how this will work for people who don't have the Latest&Greatets™, but I assume the server side has the ability to inquire the viewer about it's capabilities and invoke legacy methods for delivery (could be terribly wrong on that.) Your concerns are absolutely valid. It could also lead to temporary fragementation of the customer base as merchants who move their goods to DD will (presumably) only be able to deliver to Latest&Greatets™, while legacy customers may see non-delivery. ... or do we have to double list both DD and in the old servers to cover the market properly? Yes, you can only test this on 4 sims on Aditi (the beta grid.) - Named GC Test (n) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Come to think about it, I guess the Received Items folder will only be created if the account is visited by a capable viewer. But that might mess up the ability to use a legacy viewer with the account later. – Loads of quetions here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 It's not that bad (viewpoint depending). Toy, you need to be on the right region, there are 4 with various features which are listed in the wiki in post 1. If you use a downlevel viewer, it does create a Received Items folder and it looks like this in Phoenix 1.6 (for example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Ah, good :-) Interestingly latest Dolphin viewer seems to be up to speed already. This is what Singularity 1.6 sees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couldbe Yue Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm guessing but I'd say that the received items folder is like all the other system folders in that you don't create them and can't delete them. Hazarding a further guess, I'd say it's probably like a hybrid library folder in that you can't actually do much with the contents of the folder until you move it out of the folder. I'd even go so far as to guess that the folder is like the library folder in that the items aren't actually in your inventory but are sitting on a separate server until you do move them into the inventory. This of course would ensure that you'd never lose a delivery again so is probably highly unlikely to be part of the design. as for you Toy.. what ever happened to your "over my dead body!" attitude to mesh?? have a change of heart did we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Couldbe Yue wrote: ... as for you Toy.. what ever happened to your "over my dead body!" attitude to mesh?? have a change of heart did we? Before I respond to answer your question.... go back into any of my threads where I ever said MESH was a huge mistake or the death of SL or that I would never learn Mesh over my dead body. Just one post from me where I suggested it. Now to remind you what my position was right from the start and what I still believe and has actually come true... I said to all the Mesh Fanboys back in August that Mesh will not reach a critical mass until about Q2 of 2012.... and guess what??? who was right. Mesh has slowly gained notice in the main grid but it is still far from widely accepted in SL and still a large % of residents do not use a mesh enabled viewer. As such, my prediction is looking like it will be dead on... about Q2 of 2012 might be when Mesh finally reaches a critical mass. I said that because of LL policy to only penalize Mesh with Land Impact prim costs for every factor - including if it holds a script, Mesh is still and will likely be for a long time an inffective competitor to Sculpties for large scale landscape / terrain shapes (which most of my revenue stream comes from). My experimentation on mesh has proven that to be true - and not just for mesh over 65m... even mesh far less in size. Related to point 2, I said that I would not be making Mesh terrains because I do not feel there is a viable market for high prim count mesh landscape terrains like waterfalls and mountains. That point still holds true as all my Mesh experiments have been on making art statues .... not terrains. Finally the last thing I siad back in august was I would start trying to learn how to create mesh models until 2012 and or when I felt that the initial bugs on mesh have been worked out. Well guess what... I started learning advanced mesh development as my new years resolution. And I have already entered 1 3D art challenge from the University of Western Australia and I am working on a submission for their March submission. So exactly where has anything I told many of you in August been wrong or different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The folder acts more like a system folder, different options when you right click than you get when you right click something in objects or a normal inventory folder, for example. What are the technical advantages here because I don't see any end user advantages to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 What is the exepcted behaviour for llGiveInventory and llGiveInventoryList? Should items be going to the received items folder? They did when I tested them but others say that in the same region, they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 CTL; This thread is fast approaching the total number of posts of the "MP Down??" thread on the Valentine's Day Massacre. After so much discussion, so many posts and their overwhelmingly negative response to this crazed idea, I think we deserve now your decision about this new "feature" that none of us asked for, nor want. Not next week, not in two days, but TODAY (well, Monday the 27th since it's the weekend now and none of you are there to even read this anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Ciaran Laval wrote: What is the exepcted behaviour for llGiveInventory and llGiveInventoryList? Should items be going to the received items folder? They did when I tested them but others say that in the same region, they don't. That is the expected behaviour. Just about everything other than something you already had in inventory, rez and take the original back, will go to the dump folder aka Received Items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Marcus Hancroft wrote: Not next week, not in two days, but TODAY (well, Monday the 27th since it's the weekend now and none of you are there to even read this anyway). Just as the age old question of "if a tree falls down in a forest and nobody was there, did it make a noise?" "Does SL exist at the weekend if no Linden was logged in to notice?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hope Dreier Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Don't expect to hear from them early on. They need to digest these reponses. Edit: fixed typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sassy Romano wrote: Marcus Hancroft wrote: Not next week, not in two days, but TODAY (well, Monday the 27th since it's the weekend now and none of you are there to even read this anyway). Just as the age old question of "if a tree falls down in a forest and nobody was there, did it make a noise?" "Does SL exist at the weekend if no Linden was logged in to notice?" Heheh...yes indeed, Miss Sassy. THAT is the question. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Hope Dreier wrote: Don't expect to hear from them early on. They need to digest these reponses. Edit: fixed typo I don't see what there is to digest. This was a bad idea, they asked our opinions of it, we told them in no uncertain terms. Leave the Received Items folder as it was originally intended (as a Marketplace purchases folder). Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Couldbe Yue Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Ciaran Laval wrote: The folder acts more like a system folder, different options when you right click than you get when you right click something in objects or a normal inventory folder, for example. What are the technical advantages here because I don't see any end user advantages to this. it means a new viewer is not required to receive items. This solves the problem of people not being aware of the change and not being able to receive items (which was a pretty big issue with the DD viewer release a while back). So when DD comes in only merchants will need to upgrade their viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Marcus Hancroft wrote: I don't see what there is to digest. This was a bad idea, they asked our opinions of it, we told them in no uncertain terms. Leave the Received Items folder as it was originally intended (as a Marketplace purchases folder). Period. It's important to allow sufficient time to fully analyse the statistical data that is evident so as to avoid a misrepresentation of the opinion. They'll need statisticans of the quality of Enron accountants to show that overall, having discarded irrelevant opinion, that there's overwhelming support for this behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanara Zenovka Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not quite sure what you just said, but I know there's a Dilbert comic in there somewhere... Edit There we go - fixed http://pacm.parnes.net/images/Dilbert110320ReliabilityStatistics.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sassy Romano Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Zanara Zenovka wrote: I'm not quite sure what you just said, but I know there's a Dilbert comic in there somewhere... Edit There we go - fixed http://pacm.parnes.net/images/Dilbert110320ReliabilityStatistics.gif I'm not sure how that could possibly be representative of the deep analysis that will ensue... *shakes head* In fact, i'd love to be at that meeting... "Ok people, listen up, we're now going to decide whether to keep this feature IN so we're going to analyse the data, find both of the YES votes, discard all the NO's as random anomalies and then perform a stastical randomisation to determine which of the two YES votes is correct.. All together now. 'Ibble obble black bobble, ibble oble out, turn the dirty dishcloth inside out..goes YOU!" "and the remaining unanimous vote is that having now discarded 50% of the analysed set, the unequivocal result by positive determination is YES, this feature is supported by the user community" ALL: "HOOAH" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Sassy Romano wrote: Marcus Hancroft wrote: I don't see what there is to digest. This was a bad idea, they asked our opinions of it, we told them in no uncertain terms. Leave the Received Items folder as it was originally intended (as a Marketplace purchases folder). Period. It's important to allow sufficient time to fully analyse the statistical data that is evident so as to avoid a misrepresentation of the opinion. They'll need statisticans of the quality of Enron accountants to show that overall, having discarded irrelevant opinion, that there's overwhelming support for this behaviour. Good mornin, Miss Sassy! Ah yes. You are right, of course. Silly of me. Heheh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 "Ibble obble black bobble..." HAHAHAHA! :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Hancroft Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I think we have our answer, actually. Oskar Linden stated in his thread over in the Second Life Server forum: "Received Items is a new subsection of Inventory where all incoming items, including purchases, gifts, shared, and returned items, will be placed. You can read about it in the blogs here: - http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Inworld/Received-Items-Beta-Launch/ba-p/1397377" Emphasis, mine. They are going to ram this in no matter what we say. I feel like the whole "give us feedback.." thing was a big lie. Shameful, Lindens. Shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toysoldier Thor Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 As a few of us already predicted in this thread, we all know LL all to well. Nothing has changed with the way LL deals with their customers. We knew that with LL Commerce Team following a strict rule on keeping everything secret until they absolutely have to expose information, that if LL Commerce Team actually makes a rare appearance on the forum to announce a new feature - even if they make it sound like its just to get our opinions - it very likely means they are fully commited to what they are announcing and are just spinning the forum posting to make it sound like they are asking for our opinion. Since LL rarely asks their customers for opinions on their internal half-baked ideas and just goes ahead and develops, the LCT just hoped that maybe the Merchants and customers would like the new feature they planned to deploy anyway. Soooooo to anwser my own question on which option LCT would following in this thread knowing how much we all hate their ides.... They decided to take the road of lying to us and just moving on with the idea regardless of our "CRITICAL FEEDBACK". If there is any bright side on how the LCT treats us, we can all take heart that Oz Linden has proven that this mistreating the SL customer and not listening to its customers is not just an immature habit practiced by the LCT.... Oz Linden's Friday bombshell to destory the future of all TPVs and actually execute on the policy less than a week after he announces his ill thought out policies, proves the problem with LL's poor handling of their customer base is company wide. What is scary is how little all LL Staff know of their SL customers when they come up with these disasterous ideas, policies, and deployment plans. <sighssssss> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (My apologies for repeating this post, but I have this feeling that CTL will only review the last few messages before answering so ...) Dear Commerce Team Linden: It is now time to remove this new "feature" from the Beta testing phase and add it to the trash pile. I'm not saying this because I feel I have some special power .. not at all. I am saying this because you yourself have determined this outcome. At the start you asked us, your paying customers, for our feelings, feedback and comments concerning the new Received Items folder. This is a statement on your part that says "We value what you have to say and we honestly want you to help us make the Second Life platform better, so please let us know what you think." This is an indication that you honestly value our input. So now that you have told us you value our input, we have given you that input ... and overwhelmingly the opinion is this is an ill-considered and overall negative addition to the platform and its operation. So by your own words, you would listen to us, and weigh our feedback honestly. However, if instead you go ahead and implement this feature, you will have shown us that you were lying to us from the start, that you really do not care what we like, what we want or what we think. You will have demonstrated that your call for feedback at the outset was nothing more than a political BS maneuver to try and win some favor ... and was never intended to be seriously considered from the beginning. You will have proven that you have no regard for us, no respect for us ... and in the final outcome do not care if we all leave or stay. So now you have a chance to prove .. one way or the other .. what is the Truth behind Linden Lab's opinion of their paying customers. Are we truly part of your plans to grow and improve your product, or are you just interested in doing only what you want and do not have the least bit of respect or consideration for our involvement. Your choice CTL .. your chance to show your true colors. What will be your decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Couldbe Yue wrote: it means a new viewer is not required to receive items. This solves the problem of people not being aware of the change and not being able to receive items (which was a pretty big issue with the DD viewer release a while back). So when DD comes in only merchants will need to upgrade their viewer. Thanks, that's a definite plus point to this rollout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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