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So I have a set of furniture --same creator --in a matched theme set--

and I rez a chair for a meeting and it comes back in a big dump folder after meeting

 

and I have to figure out what the name of the orginal folder was and look for it--

for when I want to re-rez the collection together again ?  

Some items come back as no copy when the original was copy( due to scripts)  --so since I can't EASILY see the orginal folder I will have to keep more items needlessly--or am I missing something ?

 

I don't understand why a big pile on the  inventory floor is helpful ? Please explain and some clothing items --you can't figure which set they belong to......

 

Returning items to their places in their folders is important .

If the idea was to make things easier for Merchants --I (a consumer ) can't see it will --more likely Store Owners will get IMs/NCs "I can't find this part of the set I bought _here is proof I have it --please send the missing item(s) "(which are in 9264 items in one huge chunk on the floor) .

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Sassy Romano wrote:

Feedback..hmm.

Ok...WHY?

I understood it when it was a differentiator for items received via Marketplace but i'm a little puzzled as to why it's now the destination for all things received.  Yes the name makes sense but you can bet that for many, "Received Items" will now become "Objects" by another name.  At that point, the benefit seems somewhat redundant to me.

 

 

Totally agree.

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Mony Lindman wrote:

In addition to what has already been said which I wont repeat in detail but will summarise as "yet another total nonsense , thanks again LL" I must ask you where should FOLDERS go , knowing ( i mean we know it but you probably don't ) that at least half of all vendors from which people buy things in SL are set to give FOLDERS and not a copy of the vendor. Would those folders also go in this new magic all receiving wonder as subfolders ?

 

llGiveInventory and llGiveInventoryList (which allows a folder to be delivered) also end up in Received Items.  At this point, many will fail to move things about which is why this just becomes the effective "root" of inventory but with even less sorting.

Now, if you want a GOOD feature, give us llGiveInventoryList(key target, string folder_structure, list inventory);

In other words, if merchants could group their own products such that all their products fell within a hierarchy for the customer, that would be wicked.

Then good merchants could sell items which would be automatically placed by merchant and for each merchant, a folder per outfit.

Wait, this suggestion has logical merit.  Scrap it.

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Folders of items (from scripted objects) will also go into the RI (Received Items) tab.

 

I think it's a good idea, specially for newcomers, to make managing inventory easier.

The only two problems I see (which I believe can be solved) is that it looks a tiny bit like it's a work-around for the missing drag&drop feature between recent items and inventory (unless you open a second inventory window) which is still a big need for me (hey that worked with viewer 1.x!), and the other problem is that newcomers (or ALT accounts) will never get the systems folder (textures/sounds/body parts) visible as Jonathan said if new inventory goes directly into the RI tab.

 

Still like the feature!!!

Might be better though to think of a way that needs less vertical space for the RI (include it in the bottombar/sidebar or sth)!

 

Oh and just for information: this feature is already implemented and shipped xD

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MartinRJ Fayray wrote:

I think it's a good idea, specially for newcomers, to make managing inventory easier.

Oh and just for information: this feature is already implemented and shipped
xD

In order to make it easier, that would assume that all the focus groups that have provided input to this method have suggested that the existing method is harder.  It also assumes that people, especially newbies will instantly latch on to daily inventory sorting.

Newsflash.  They don't.

So how did you close my JIRA?

What focus groups?

Yes we know it's going to happen anyway, that doesn't mean it's a good thing.  Neither is Commerce Linden being a transaction intermediary in a decoupled non transactional transaction a good thing but we have that too.

"Ideas" are great but in a commercial environment, any idea which has resource thrown at it should really be answering the classic question of "what business problem are we trying to solve?"

So what is it?  Where are the piles of JIRA's that illustrate that inventory as it is is a big problem that needs solving?  Where are the forum posts complaining and demanding that everything gets lumped together.

It just makes no sense without answering that question.

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Sassy Romano wrote:

"Ideas" are great but in a commercial environment, any idea which has resource thrown at it should really be answering the classic question of "
what business problem are we trying to solve?
"


Obviously I'm in no position to give you a definite answer on this; it sounds like something only a Linden can do.

However (and bear in mind this is a simplified explanation of the current system):-

Imagine every SL resident has 250 loose objects in their 'Objects' folder (substitute any number you like). Every time they receive an object, this object also goes into their object folder. Every time the user goes looking for received items, they automatically go to the Objects folder, oftentimes requiring the viewer to ask for information on all 250 objects inside that folder. Assume each resident looks inside their Objects folder 4 times per log-in, each time requesting the information from the inventory server; that's 1000 objects-worth of information per log-in, per user, and all with the intention of finding a single, recently-appended object.

Over time, with users continuously dumping more items into the Objects folder, this creates inventory lag (as the viewer has to request an ever-lengthening list) and occupies lots and lots of inventory server time (which of course is shared between all residents).

--

 

Encouraging users to trash boxes/unecessary items quickly, or sort needed objects away from any large, less-obvious 'dump' folder is a sure-fire way to reduce the size of these folders, and also allows LL to optimise inventory calls so that Recent items can remain 'at the top' of the inventory server (or even within the viewers cache) to save having to make so many large (and mostly unnecessary) calls to the inventory database.

 

/me exhales, wheezes, and slumps to the floor asleep.

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I've slept since first hearing about this suggestion.

Today's thoughts are a little more compartmentalised.

In theory, we all have this new folder in our inventory called Received Items. And in theory, that folder starts absolutely empty for everyone. So in theory, from the first day we have a Received Items folder, we know that it is in our interests to deal with the contents of the Received Items folder as quickly as possible. 

This would suggest that this would be very useful for people who regularly come to the forums and ask where something is that they just bought from Marketplace.  This also would suggest it will make it easier to see if something has indeed been delivered from Marketplace, and therefore make chasing that up more easy.

With everything going into the new Received Items folder it will actually illustrate to a lot of people how little time they have to ever catch up with the contents of their inventory, whereas with the system we have now, our inventory contents grow like dust in our real life homes, to be scowled at, but largely ignored. (Or is this just me?)

In practice, everyone has their own way of sorting (or not sorting) their inventory, except for the new residents, of course, and unless LL are planning to give a brain-washing session to new residents on how they MUST deal with their Received Items folder often, we are just going to end up with even bigger and more out-of-control inventories.

I appreciate it must have seemed like a great idea while being tossed around a meeting room in real life, and we certainly do need a better way of keeping our inventories in shape, but I really do wonder if the Linden team involved in this have spent much time acquiring new stuff inworld. Somehow I don't believe it is so.





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Here's a scenario:-

I'm not logged in, i'm at work, i'm doing a bit of shopping on Marketplace.  Meanwhile, inworld I might have left some prims around or a sim has closed and the owner has returned items, lets say they were considerate and returned them individually, could be hundreds.

Customers send notecards, my partner sends me some objects and scripts too while I was offline.

Now, instead of enjoying SL, the FIRST thing I have to do is go through hundreds of items in this Received Items folder, making sure that I don't accidentally delete the things I've bought, while deleting the items that would have normally gone to "Lost and Found".

You know, that no copy expensive item, make a mistake accidentally select too much and delete.

 

 

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Trying hard not to be one of the usual suspects but I jeez CT this is daft! - would be  smart to pay heed to the sage advice  offered on this thread. It's not an upgrade to the system it's a downgrade. I suspect that this is the only way that the devs can make DD work. But then they are the same  folks who sold us the much hated Viewer 2 borked turkey :-(

Too late to go back to the drawing board I suppose?

^L^

 

 

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Marcus Hancroft wrote:

CommerceTeam...CommcerceTeam.  Not just "No!" but "Hell NO!"  The inventory set up with this would be a freaking nightmare!

And why haven't you responded to your own thread since all this began, anyway?  You ask for we merchant's feedback...we give it to you...and then you stay quiet!

Please tell us that you've heard us and that the idea is scrapped!  It's a bad BAD idea!

I don't think they quite expected their little announcement to turn into such a firestorm :(

They are probably in shock :smileysurprised:

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If this will be implemented anyway, which I hope not, then at least make it possible to open the received items folder in a floating window apart from the rest of the inventory. So you can have both open next to each other and organise your inventory by dragging the received items to the folders where you want them to be.

But even better: reconsider the plan and cancel it.

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That's a lot of mumbo jumbo...the "Received Items" folder will end up being just like the "Objects Folder" over time. In fact it will be spaghetti with all types of categories of inventory mixed into together.!!

You're assuming that a million or so regular users can somehow maintain order of this new "Received Items"Folder...when they did not have the discipline to keep their "Objects Folder" in order in the first instance.

We already have adequate tools available if only people learn how to use them. If you vaguely know the item you are searching for in your over-bloated "Objects Folder"...you could type a keyword in the Search field box to narrow down the objects listed (e.g shoes, hair, AO) in the "Objects Folder". Likewise using "Show Filters" in conjunction with "Recent Items Folder" would make life easier too.

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I would ask you folks on the commerce team how your email is handled.

Do you a spam folder?

Do you have custom folders for emails coming in from specific mailing lists? A folder for work related emails? Perhaps code commits going into another folder?

Do you apply custom filters to incoming mail?

Or do you have one big inbox? If so, do you find it easier to sort through that one inbox every day? Every week?

Why does your current email setup work best for you?

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Rene Erlanger wrote:

You're assuming that a million or so regular users can somehow maintain order of this new "Received Items"Folder...when they did not have the discipline to keep their "Objects Folder" in order in the first instance.

Yep, I am. And so are LL. By making the Received Items panel separate to the inventory window they're clearly hoping people clean this regularly. Previously there was no incentive to do so, as the Objects folder was more obscured, and 'didn't matter' if it was a mess. LL's challenge is making sure the incentive is there to keep it clean. This isn't a new challenge, but it IS a new incentive. The tidier and smaller your inventory, the less of a burden you are on LL's servers.


Rene Erlanger wrote:

We already have adequate tools available if only people learn how to use them. If you vaguely know the item you are searching for in your over-bloated "Objects Folder"...you could type a keyword in the Search field box to narrow down the objects listed (e.g shoes, hair, AO) in the "Objects Folder". Likewise using "Show Filters" in conjunction with "Recent Items Folder" would make life easier too.

Inventory search isn't a rear-end solution for these huge database calls. Sure it helps the resident find what they're after, but by doing a large-scale scan on your inventory you're not being server-friendly. As I say, my opinion is that this new process will help.

As for 'adequate tools', 'filters' 'recent items' etc etc, they don't work as cleanly and are for more burdensome to use. The process is clunky and out-dated, and makes no sense to new users. Received Items mirrors other more modern approaches to asset-handling.

Mumbo-jumbo that! :D

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Freya Mokusei wrote:

. Received Items mirrors other more modern approaches to asset-handling.

Mumbo-jumbo
that
!
:D

Yes fine, so give me configurable filters that let me direct notecards to "Notecards", textures to "Textures", objects to "Objects" and so on.  How about a filter that lets me direct based on creator so that I can do something like:-

 "\Clothing\%merchant%\%outfit%"

then when I buy something from a certain merchant, it automatically gets filtered and sorted into a hierarchy, just as you would with email as outlined in Dartagan's post.

This is FAR from a more modern way of handling assets but is retarded.  Without filters this becomes nothing but a horrid burden and it WILL get out of control.  To believe otherwise is somewhat naive.

Better inventory management isn't in question but simply choosing a new dump folder is in no way the solution, give us the tools to do it properly.

I'm still waiting to hear which focus groups were tested for this, where the project development spec came from.

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Sassy Romano wrote:


MartinRJ Fayray wrote:

(apart from that: I
really like
the idea, it gives us more easier options to organize our inventory!!!!)

MartinRJ Fayray

Martin, how did you CLOSE my JIRA reporting this new, unwanted, unrequested behaviour as a bug?  I don't wish to get into debate about whether the JIRA or forum process is most appropriate, i'm just interested in how a resident can close another residents JIRA.

I can't close JIRA's.

MY guess, Miss Sassy...

MartinRJ Fayray = Linden Alt

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perhaps I'm just feeling contrary today but I like the idea of a received items folder.  I used to hate it when I'd get LMs, notecards etc and they'd all go into different folders.  Recent items tab helps at the time I'm out and about but if I don't want to deal with it straight away they get lost.  So to me a recieved items folder means I have everything tucked away to nag me to deal with.

That's assuming that it's only going to be for stuff that comes from everyone but me.  I want all my stuff to go back to the folder it came from.

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TiberiusPaladin Raynier wrote:

Well as sound as this idea is, i personally disagree with this new beta, what ahppenes when I build stuff and then it gets "returned"? Will I have to deal with those thousands of items cluttering my inventory?

Yes.  They will be in your Received Items along with everything else, waiting for you to sort them.

Top Tip and open request to LL:

Please log off Facebook and Google and start using your own software.  Try some dogfooding for a change because it's evident that the development roadmap is being managed and implemented by staff who are not using their own code.

Viewer 2, from the team that never log in.

Marketplace, from the team that never sell anything.

and now... Inventory Management, from the team that don't buy or make anything.  (unless you convince me otherwise?) :)

I'm sorry CTL, i'll happily play devil's advocate at times and I can appreciate where some of these ideas seem to sprout from but on this one, just...no.

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They might be able to get the best of both worlds if they were to implement a tagging system side by side.

MP items could tagged as such, etc. Options to sort and filter by tag.

It doesn't solve all the optimizations they want to go for with unhindered dumping to keep the system leaner, because of the re-sorts, but at some point forcing users to make good choices has to be balanced with ease of use, which is the lacking element here.

It's another instance of Mesh. Mesh is great, the system is convoluted and skewed in LL's favor for forcing less triangles in the world thereby saving them enormous resources on the same old hardware (and making a few extra sinks on the side to compensate monetarily).

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Sassy Romano wrote:


TiberiusPaladin Raynier wrote:

Well as sound as this idea is, i personally disagree with this new beta, what ahppenes when I build stuff and then it gets "returned"? Will I have to deal with those thousands of items cluttering my inventory?

Yes.  They will be in your Received Items along with everything else, waiting for you to sort them.

 

are you sure?  that makes absolutely no sense whatsover - even applying LL standards.

 

edit...  just checked the links in the first post and yes, they really are going to dump everything in there.. I assume the lost and found folder is going to be renamed received items.  it's not completely the end of the world and if it makes them happy, who are we to complain?  we just pay their wages.

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