Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Seven Overdrive wrote: Agreed on your two points at the end, although, I'm not convinced that any non-SL ventures will translate into major benefits for SL, including the much desired reduction in tier fees. One can hope they would be willing to take the profit from one product to prop up another. I guess the fact that this thread is relatively quiet on the subject, may be an indicator that there just isn't a huge demand for lower tiers after all. Not really.....i'd love for Tier prices to come down.....i've been singing that tune for best part of 3 years on these Forums. The loss of all those Estate sims in the last year...has kind of opened my eyes, in that SL might have had it's day in the sun! Sadly, I no longer think cutting Tiers is a feasible prospect anymore....not with their current business model (a decline in both concurrency & Estate sims) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 That is why they need to cut tier for SOME people in SOME cases. For instance for first time buyers, to get more people to rent. Give new people a discount for a while. Give long term sims a discount as well, reward them for sticking around for a year or more. Bring back the difference between real estate, educational or commercial sims, diffferent tiers for adult, mature and general sims, etc, etc. Just look at the RL real estate business, go with the market, you've got to be flexible. Or as I suggested earlier, a tier break for those sims/groups that get enough "votes". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Jo Yardley wrote: That is why they need to cut tier for SOME people in SOME cases. For instance for first time buyers, to get more people to rent. Give new people a discount for a while. Give long term sims a discount as well, reward them for sticking around for a year or more. Bring back the difference between real estate, educational or commercial sims, diffferent tiers for adult, mature and general sims, etc, etc. Just look at the RL real estate business, go with the market, you've got to be flexible. Or as I suggested earlier, a tier break for those sims/groups that get enough "votes". i think out of all your suggestions......i'd be inclined to impliment the bolded text ones.....get more people buying Premium Subscriptions and owning plots of land on Mainland by incentives & discounts. That would hopefully help increase their income by a few million....and also bring back demand for Mainland (i.e prices per sqm) . 43% of Mainland is under Linden control (including abandoned lands placed back on the market for sale)....so there's plenty available for new land owners.....just needed re-parcelling for new entrants. Regarding your other suggestions......LL would have to crunch the numbers and see what is feasible without jeopardizing their future profitability. Most of my sims are 5-6 years old....so I'd love a discount! .......doubt i would get it though! Don't get me wrong Jo...i do like your Discount suggestions, the ones you describe as "crazy ideas"....they are innovative to say the least.....but might be too complex for LL adminstration wise (eek their Billing Dept!!). I just feel all these ideas are a bit late in the day.....2008/ 9 when the RL recession was just beginning, was the time for LL to be creative with their accounting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltango Vale Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 "If it i had to make a stab at it though....I would say LL's profit margins hover between 10 -15% (15% is very optimistic on my part).....so on $100 Mill revenues.....we're looking at Net Profits before CT Tax around $10-15 Mill.usd" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is in line with my own ballpark calculations: US$10 million before tax on US$100 million in sales. Cutting the price of tier would increase sales, but the problem runs deeper. Even a 90% discount won't increase sales of a 2006 Nokia phone. In 1998, the world expected Apple to die. The breakthrough came when Steve Jobs returned to the company and began producing service-oriented consumer goods instead of computer hardware. Linden Lab is stuck in an engineering mentality. It doesn't see the New Economy and New Society of virtual worlds. That is the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Marketplace has to die, or SL will. Or at least change, and be tied to land ownership -more- rather than the less of... 0... that is coming soon. lol, i like that quote as i'm not a fan of Marketplace and what it's done to the In-world economy! I wouldn't suggest "die" though.....maybe take a backward seat, like how the old Onrez, SLEX and XStreet shopping websites use to compliment In-world commercial activities. They can start by removing the "shopping Cart" button from their Official SL Viewers...so that users who wanted to shop on Marketplace, would have to flick to their browser and purposely open up MP outside of SL. (like it use to be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltango Vale Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 SL Marketplace saved me from bankruptcy in 2011. Without SLM, I would not be in SL today. But let us not turn this tread into yet another discussion of SLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Deltango Vale wrote: "If it i had to make a stab at it though....I would say LL's profit margins hover between 10 -15% (15% is very optimistic on my part).....so on $100 Mill revenues.....we're looking at Net Profits before CT Tax around $10-15 Mill.usd" --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is in line with my own ballpark calculations: US$10 million before tax on US$100 million in sales. Cutting the price of tier would increase sales, but the problem runs deeper. ..................... Linden Lab is stuck in an engineering mentality. It doesn't see the New Economy and New Society of virtual worlds. That is the real problem. Hey there Deltango.....so you took a stab at number crunching too? Glad we're on the same page! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Deltango Vale wrote: SL Marketplace saved me from bankruptcy in 2011. Without SLM, I would not be in SL today. Employ me as your Land Saleman and i would do much better than any SLM listing could ever do for you! :matte-motes-wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Deltango Vale wrote: SL Marketplace saved me from bankruptcy in 2011. Without SLM, I would not be in SL today. But let us not turn this tread into yet another discussion of SLM. Something which can be good for individuals can still harm the greater whole to such a degree that it is a very bad thing - even for those individuals. Any discussion of land sadly, at this point - is directly tied to marketplace. Land tier would be a lot more affordable if the people paying it had ways of funding it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Jetaime Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Pussycat Catnap wrote: Marketplace has to die, or SL will. Simply not true. I spend a lot more on things because of Marketplace. I would probably only spend 25% of what I spend now if I had to shop solely in world. I just don't have the time to TP all around, even if I can even successfully TP the first time and not have to do it over and over before finally getting where I want to go. MP is where I go to compare prices, see what's new, and discover new designers. If they have an inworld store, I go there to buy things if its convenient at the time to save the merchant the commission. Shopping all day in world may be entertaining to you, but its not for me and for many if not most people. Its a horrible experience due to lag, rezzing issues and TP's that fail over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knutz Scorpio Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Lowering tier prices would definitely be great for me, if they cut it by maybe a third that might be enough incentive for me to up from 2k to 4k and the Lindens would be making more off of me. What would really help is smaller tier steps, maybe just increase tier in 512 increments instead of the exponential scale they have now. I've passed on countless parcels of land that looked really promising except they were just a few sq.m outside my current tier and the next tier step was huge. I've often considered just biting the bullet for one month at the higher tier just to get the land and trim enough off of it to get the tier back down for the next month, but that would add to the problem of the numerous unusable micro parcels laying around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrie Juran Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think Linden Homes was (is) a good idea but that it was poorly implemented. A great tool for getting new Residents established while they learned to navigate the World. But it should have been a time limited offer. Free home for perhaps the first six months. Then move them out to the wide world. One statistic that to my knowledge we don't have is how many have moved on to land ownership or rental. Regardless, to allow eternal squatters rights is at least in my opinion a bad idea. Do the fees for a premium account offset the loss of tier that people living in Linden Homes causes? I believe Rodvik said there were 30,000 people living in Linden Homes. That would/could fill up a nice chunk of Mainland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I completely agree. The Linden Homes are just what some people want, they don't care about looking for something better. They stay for ever. So either make it a less fancy place or put a time limit on it. Would be nice to create an entire "noob area", a reservation where you can only be if your account is no older then a few months. A place where they can meet other noobs, explore, learn, master navigation and just have some fun without being bothered by some of the trouble makers you can find at many of the arrival places in SL. A few "noob regions" might be a good idea anyway, not just for paying members. Here you go new person, this is a region with little lag, everyone here is new, you can go outside and explore the big world as well, but in here it is just people who have just arrived. People with an paid account have houses on that side, here there is space and educationa videos, instructions on walking and over there a sandbox where you can learn building. Have fun, you can stay here for a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yep Pierre...i like that idea of 6-months residency...and then move off! It would certainly kick start Mainland if they have 30000 living in those homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Amethyst Jetaime wrote: Pussycat Catnap wrote: Marketplace has to die, or SL will. Simply not true. I spend a lot more on things because of Marketplace. I would probably only spend 25% of what I spend now if I had to shop solely in world. I just don't have the time to TP all around, even if I can even successfully TP the first time and not have to do it over and over before finally getting where I want to go. MP is where I go to compare prices, see what's new, and discover new designers. If they have an inworld store, I go there to buy things if its convenient at the time to save the merchant the commission. Shopping all day in world may be entertaining to you, but its not for me and for many if not most people. Its a horrible experience due to lag, rezzing issues and TP's that fail over and over. i think they should make it a catalog myself..a place where merchants can sell demos or show displays of their inworld products..then offer the location so we can shop faster but also be seeing inworld more.. i just hated seeing the market place take over like it did where merchants end up closing up stores to just be on market place now.. what good is inworld if we are both outside of it doing our business? we log into sl to go idle to sit on the market or just shop from outside without logging in.. tier may end up going up more if land sales don't increase.. the market is not gonna buffer that.. but i do love it for faster shopping to get things..but since it sucks for transactions..i now just use the slurl to make sure i get my items fast.. i just think they need to do something to where both enhance each other rather than one overtaking the other.. it would be nice to see merchants heading back inworld at a good rate rather than leaving.. =) i can't help but feeling LL wanted it this way..buying up onrez and xstreet to be the only market in town .. then having it so easy for everyone.. how could they not see that a lot of that inworld money was going to go where it costs less to sell? they should have made it where you needed to have an inworld place to be able to use the market.. but a lot of their options are past able to use now because they have stretched things so thin.. i just wish we knew if they are wanting it to succeed now or if they are just grabbing as much as they can from everywhere while the grabbing is still good lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jo Yardley Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 That is why I would like to see a rule that makes vendors have a copy of every item for sale on marketplace also somewhere inworld. That way they have to have a shop but buyers also get a chance to check the item out before buying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Tier prices are too high, but LL can't cut tier as they have no other strong income streams. LL's model of having their own servers which means always on demand is also restrictive. On demand hosting would be useful for some ventures, entertainment ventures spring to mind, if a club or music venue is only really used Friday, Saturday, Sunday, then only charging the owner for tier when the venue is in use, would make it more appealing for people to try and run entertainment ventures, but with the model LL have, that's not feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 good post Ceka....pretty much the way I feel! Linden Lab will have to learn the hard way i guess......with their Tier income just dwindling away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anaiya Arnold Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Jo Yardley wrote: That is why I would like to see a rule that makes vendors have a copy of every item for sale on marketplace also somewhere inworld. That way they have to have a shop but buyers also get a chance to check the item out before buying. That's one way to make me cancel my subscription and sell or (more likely) abandon my land... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 i dont think that paying customers should be time limited. you get what you pay for and while you pay then you get to have it. if was me then i would offer incentives to move on one of the things that other people have suggested, is to raise the minimum mainlaind tier allocation to 1024m for the same price as a linden home. so the choice is a linden home or 1024m mainland. if you keep the linden home and buy other mainland then you have to pay extra tier, like an extra 512m costs $5 more a month or whatever the schedule is + for time limited residency offers then i would try to work out something for first time accounts on a try-before-you-buy basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Rene Erlanger wrote: good post Ceka....pretty much the way I feel! Linden Lab will have to learn the hard way i guess......with their Tier income just dwindling away! well when Rodvik said tier will not be going up this year..then mentioning new projects.. right now there are two ways to take that line.. is tier not gonna go up this year because this is it? or do they have some sort of plan that is gonna buffer whats going on?because if tier is not gonna go up and money is being bled off..then how do they expect to keep the grid open? if everyone is blowing off the inworld search for the marketplace..how are the places inworld ever gonna be seen??there are search problems already and now LL only makes it worse by making the market the one stop shop? i have been on singularity the past few days..and i'm using the old search right now..i'm finding places that you can't see on the inworld search.. and they are there..i am actually tping to these places..someone needs to slap them in the face with a book ..you want face book ..there ya go!! the stupid online crap is not cutting anything but life..look at what people like about this online based stuff like the feeds and keep those things.. but search..go back to the way it was and who cares if it's by traffic..we had a pretty good inworld then..go back to what works.. this trying to keep everyone outside on web based crap is gonna kill the grid..it may not be a fast death ..but it will be a painful one.. do they not realize their browser viewer is not around anymore? my main thing is ..when is their juice or grease or whatever it is that keeps the grid going going to be used up? i would like to have a good idea ahead of time so i can stop investing..and when i see myself saying things like that..i start to wonder even more..is this just a thing to keep us holding on and spending ..or is there actually some light at the end of the tunnel so we can have some assurance.. because humans..we can't stand unstable..the U.S. economy is built on trying to make us see some stability somewhere or a light of some kind so we keep spending..soon as we see everything unstable..we tighten up like a tick on the azz lol sorry..i'm just blowing off some smoke and getting myself worked up.. it's their shop..they can blow it or save it if they want..what we say to them is about as valuable to them as using a net to gather water.. but it does feel good to spout sometimes hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 i like the idea of rewarding loyal customers. as part of a plan to reduce tiers over the longterm then i would def include this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 is not all hope lost yet (: + one thing is that ppl like a goldrush. that motivated quite a lot of ppl to come piling into SL in 2007-08 the height of the boom. linden was printing sims like crazy and ppl were getting even more crazy snapping them up and cutting them for resale and rentals. insane prices at both ends but like all goldrushes when the gold runs out then the ghost town comes very quickly as well that the question i think. where is the gold in SL today? tangible gold that can be turned into money for the residents. linden got their gold, so where is ours? am not suggesting another goldrush. just asking where is the wealth that will help us to pay the tier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceka Cianci Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 16 wrote: is not all hope lost yet (: + one thing is that ppl like a goldrush. that motivated quite a lot of ppl to come piling into SL in 2007-08 the height of the boom. linden was printing sims like crazy and ppl were getting even more crazy snapping them up and cutting them for resale and rentals. insane prices at both ends but like all goldrushes when the gold runs out then the ghost town comes very quickly as well that the question i think. where is the gold in SL today? tangible gold that can be turned into money for the residents. linden got their gold, so where is ours? am not suggesting another goldrush. just asking where is the wealth that will help us to pay the tier points to the market ===> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 yes my bad where is the growth in wealth? can point to the market on this question as well. if the market not growing tho then how do you turn it around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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