Mesh offset when imported in SL and different scale of the avatar Maya/SL

[Vinc3nt Velinov]

Hello again,

I am disturbing you with a new question.

I am playing around the standard sizes and testing one of them (xxs for the moment).

Now, I have loaded the shape in maya, on the skeleton, lined it up and added a pant as you can see in the picks

 

 

Looks like that the side is not perfect (ankles are too much behind) but rotation is set to 0 so I guess is fine...

This is what happen when I upload the pant in SL (beta)

Entirely offset.

Really no idea of what I am doing wrong. Any idea of the issue?

Thank you in advance

[Cathy Foil]

The reason your pants are not positioning correctly when you wear them in SL is because the avatar mesh you are using in the program you made the pants with is positioned incorrectly.

It is not your fault.  LL's has not provided us with the exact mesh placement and skeleton.  Also the default mesh LL provides is not the exact same mesh LL uses in world.  The way you can tell this is to look at the hands.  The default mesh LL provides us to download the fingers are straight and spread apart.  The true default avatar mesh the fingers are relaxed as you see them in world.  I have even seen two skeletons, both of which actually work for uploads, but one has more of a tilt in the pelvis.  If there are differences in the hands and even skeletons that have been provided what else is different between the default mesh we been given and the actual default mesh SL uses?

My plea to LL is please please please provide us with the actual default mesh and skeleton with the mesh weighted.  I am pretty sure they were originally created using Maya so just save them as an "ma" file so anyone with Maya can open them no matter how old of a version they have.  I am sure there are plenty of us Maya users who be happy to help export it in other formats so our friends using Blender and other programs can have an accurate default avatar mesh as well.

Really making these available should be something in the basic Wiki download page for mesh.  If someone out there has been able to some how get their hands on a true default avatar, skeleton and weighted please make it available.  Even if it is just a DAE file.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

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Cathy Foil wrote:

If there are differences in the hands and even skeletons that have been provided what else is different between the default mesh we been given and the actual default mesh SL uses?

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No idea about the differences, but the mesh itself is accurate in terms of faces and vertices and UV mapping as far as I know.

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My plea to LL is please please please provide us with the actual default mesh and skeleton with the mesh weighted.

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Yes that would be VERY helpful, the skeleton that is.

 

To the OP...

I think right now all you can do is adjust the skeleton yourself. That will take some testing ofcourse... If the pants stick out in the front, move the matching bone backwards. I do have to say I have no experience with rigging at all, but this makes sense to me anyway...

[Cathy Foil]

LOL I was so busy talking about needing LL to provide us with an accurate default weighted mesh and skeleton that I forgot to give some practical advise.

I wouldn't move the bones of the skeleton your using but rather just move the mesh pants back a bit and skin/weight them again in the new position.  It will take a little trial and error but if you log onto the Aditi the beta test grid it won't cost you anything to upload the mesh as many times as you need till you get it just right.

[Betty Doyle]

It looks like maybe one of the torso or lower joints is rotated wrong.  I had the opposite issue. The skeleton I had was rotated at the Torso making the upper body tilt backward.  After much frustration, someone helped me figure out what the problem was. I've uploaded my fixed skeleton if you want to try to use it.  I've rigged this one to a copy of my avatar's mesh to test it, and everything lines up inworld.

http://www.box.com/s/yvpnhy6uc68rkyqlg1nz

 

[Vinc3nt Velinov]

Thank you so much everybody, I feel relieved now. 

I'll keep testing moving the mesh in aditi.

Thank you for the link of the working skeleton

Kudos!

[Aurelia Chauveau]

I had the same problem - and had to re-adjust parts of my mesh forwards/backwards so it works in SL - it's trial and error and yes takes alot of time and I also wish we had a skeleton and avi mesh that was directly from SL to use!

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

This is exactly why I suggested to alter the skeleton rather than the mesh. In order to get the skeleton right, you only need to test once, although it can be hard to get right. If you alter the mesh on the other hand, you have to test every single time you make a new mesh. I don't know how difficult it is to move the bones in a rig though, maybe someone can explain how to do this for the different programs used. Maya, Blender and 3ds max are the most common ones I think.

[Vinc3nt Velinov]

Ok,

I think I am almost there with the skeleton, following your suggestions and Betty Doyle's link (thank you again).

I'd love to fix the skeleton only once as Kwakkelde Kwak wrote, still testing.

But.

There is another issue going on now.

This is what I see in Maya:

 

The pant fits the shape (the mesh is horrible I know, just for testing purposes), but when I upload it in SL it doesn't fit anymore:

I am wearing an incorrect alpha in height to show the big differences between the shape in Maya and the one in SL. And they are the *same* shape (I have downloaded the obj from Phoenix and imported in Maya directly).

This is not a matter of positioning but of difference of units, I guess.

Are there suggestions about the units to choose in order to make the shapes (and the mesh) match? Or maybe there is something wrong I am doing, or missing something?

I am exporting in fbx, scale factor set to Automatic; 

when I import in SL, after the conversion fbx -> dae with the Autodesk FbxConverterUI, I don't set a scale - rezzed they are tiny but I don't care since I am not going to sell this things - and I simply wear it.

I hope that I have provided enough info for a clue, it's driving me crazy.

[Kwakkelde Kwak]

Hmm going by the pictures it just looks as if the pants are not alligned properly. The shape matches perfectly as far as I can see, the pants shape in SL and Maya and the body shape in SL and Maya that is.

I would still say the hip bone is not in the right place in Maya compared to the body mesh. If you move the hip joint forward in Maya, the pants in SL should go backwards in that area.

Instead of testing and testing and trying and trying without knowing for sure it will do a lot of (or even any) good, it would be really helpful if someone using Blender (or anyone with a 100% accurate rig in any program) can upload the three orthogonal  views of the body mesh and skeleton. Yours does look a bit unnatural in the leg area, especially the ankles and pelvis area seen from the side.

I haven't rigged anything as I said, so I'm not sure the above picture perfectly matches the inworld SL rig.

This is the 3ds max rig from the SLAV plugin. If you compare it to your rig, the hip and ankle joints are far more to the front of the body mesh.

[Betty Doyle]

Now it appears it's tilting forward, but it shouldn't be the skeleton I linked to causing that because it lines up perfectly for me.  This is a skirt I've been working on using the same skeleton.

I assume you're wearing the same shape inworld as what you're building it on? As Kwakkeide said, you don't want to have to be shifting around your mesh.

 

[Vinc3nt Velinov]

Ok.

My two coins on the matter. Always work on a FRESH file. You never know what you did during your hours of failed attemptings, even aliens may have come and digit odd sequences on you keyboard...

So.

I have worked on Betty's file, centered the avatar following Kwakkeide's picture

and after few tests finally I had the results expected

Thank you very much for the support, I also hope that this topic will help other people.

[Betty Doyle]

Yay!  Good advice.  I think those aliens have visited me in the past too.

[Milla Michinaga]

EDIT: I found the problem in my skeleton - the chest was tilted forward 5 degrees. I fixed it and now my mesh fits perfectly. Phew!

 

Hi Betty

I'm having the same problem with my skeleton and I was so happy to find your link! Unfortunately I can't open the file in Maya 2009 - do you think its a version issue? Do you have a new version of Maya?

This is the error message I get

 

[Betty Doyle]

Hi Milla

Yes, I have 2011.  You could try opening it while having "ignore version" checked, but I uploaded a copy exported as fbx_dae for you, and I think that'll maybe work better. Skeleton_fixed.dae

[Milla Michinaga]

Thank you so much! I'm very grateful to see your skeleton too.

[Betty Doyle]

You're very welcome!

[Evangeline Eames]

Thank you for this skeleton!  It does seem to help position the mesh better but I am still having fitting issues.  I am using the 'Standard Sizing' XXS avatar to fit in Zbrush and checking it in Maya before rigging.  When I bring the garment in to SL the bottom seems fine but the top doesn't seem to fit the way it does outside of SL. The sides are pushed in and the mesh buckles in places.  I can't seem to figure out the issue.  If anyone had any suggestions I would really appreciate them.

[Betty Doyle]

You're welcome. My only suggestion would be to open up your component editor (Window - General Editors - Component Editor), go into the Smooth Skins tab and check to see if you have any vertices weighted to bones that they shouldn't be.

[Evangeline Eames]

I've actually added some images in the hopes of clarifying the issue.

simple garment rigged in maya

rezzed inworld

worn (note how the top is distored)

 

worn with upper body alpha (note the distortion and 'buckling')

 

I've tried numerous models and get the same result.  Admittedly I am new to weight painting so maybe it is my inexperience.  However the fact that the exact same thing happens regardless of the model or how I paint the weights leads me to believe it is another issue.  Again, I really appreciate any suggestions