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Martin Emerald

Progeny Vampire System

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The First Tradition:
The Masquerade
Thou shall not reveal thy true nature to those not of the Blood.
Doing such shall renounce thy claims of Blood.

Many games or systems vampires in SL, apply the concept of the Masquerade and all who feel vampires, they respect. 

There are many websites where you can learn their meaning

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Neuntoter, I can understand what you are saying and I can see that you wish to play as a "real" vampire. However, for progeny to really be like that then why the hell have a website to recruit people and more importantly why does the Creator have a Twitter feed where he boasts about what he is doing in a game that is supposed to be secret? It really is as much of a joke as your last post, because like it or not, Lachiel is making you look very foolish!

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I'm well aware of The Masquerade. I have 2 alts I RP with that are vampires, one is a Tzimisce, the other is a Malkavian. In ROLEPLAY.  My main is human and has been a blood doll to several different vampires. In ROLEPLAYING, out of character people may know my characters are vampires and may bite, however, in character, they don't. If you are roleplaying, you roleplay the bite and then, if your vampire has the ability (and most do) you wipe the memory or at least make it hazy, perhaps a love bite during a rough petting session, for example. The problem that I see it that the players using The Progeny hud aren't RPing and using it as a tool, but instead are just using SL players as things to rack up their points rather than roleplaying. They obviously don't have the separation between OOC and IC.

I'm an admin in an RP community and regularly teach classes in RP theory and practice and would be more than happy to come and teach these users how to RP properly. I'll also be teaching classes through the Happy Hippo school.

With no RP involved, the Progeny hud becomes a stealthy griefer type tool...one that you don't know you've been attacked with.

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

Did you even read what i wrote?

What I am saying is if a sim/parcel owner didnt want a paticular group on his/her land, that he should have the ability to ban them, in the same way that they already can (if they know them to be progeny) that is why a live database of members would be useful, it would be something that i for one would use on a regular basis to update my ban lists!

Speaking as an admin for a large group of entertainment sims, I'm not sure we'd find it particularly helpful, since we ban people for making a persistent nuisance of themselves, not simply for being members of a group.    For example, Bloodlines members are welcome but, if they ignore our rule against trying to bite people,  we ban them.    

Even if we were to ban people for belonging to a group, I would certainly want to know how accurate your proposed list was, and how you knew it was accurate.   If I see a name on the list, how do I know the person is still a member of the group?   How do I know that they were ever a member of the group, and their name is not there by mistake or through malice?

This takes me back to my original question about why people are so upset about this Progeny business.   We ban people from our sims for sending out unsoliticted bite requests, or for spamming people with announcements, or various other things, because it annoys folks and we get complaints about it.  

Where's the annoyance to our visitors caused by these Progeny people?   If someone complains to us that so-and-so is making a nuisance of himself, we'll act on it.    But where is the nuisance here?

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I think, for him, it's the principle of the thing and, from what I've read, he's either been victimized or has an ax to grind with this Raven Claw group within The Progeny system. It could be considered the same as the Native American practice of counting coup. however with that, you knew you were involved.

My dislike is because of the overly secretive nature and it obviously not being used as an RP tool. Their use plays into the first person shooter mentality where everyone around is just fodder for their enjoyment rather than a person to interact with. A vampire, in RP, will attack 2 ways...a swift silent attack that leaves the person weak or a seduction. Either one, the person will know something happened. At least Bloodlines, you get asked.

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That most games use some topics vampire masquerade, does not mean that developers use in their entirety, they are always free adaptations These games and others, are part of the creative universe of the virtual world. If something really affect who's behind the computer, Second Life and it would have prohibited. But I still do not understand why you dislike this particular system. It is very simple if you do not like you ignore it, if something does not look like either, so I think you have another motivation to get the attention of everyone on this system

I will not participate more in this, because I think you just want to draw attention to something that makes no sense. Thanks for reading. If you want something I am in the world

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

The way I'm seeing this is...yes, the Progeny and The Hunger and all the other huds that don't let the "victim" know they have been use all share one thing in common. They don't see the other players in SL as players/people but as things to be used to further their personal game. Anything that reduces avis that have people at the keyboard to NPC's and things needs to be rethought. It's a bit disrespectful but a reflection of the current generation of players that were brought up on FPS video games where everything around them was something to be used rather than reflecting another person. Progeny and it's ilk have reduced everyone other than those also wearing that meter to fodder for their game rather than someone to interact with.

So what?  There's nothing you can do about people having that attitude and, quite frankly, it's also none of your business how other SL users see you, unless their behavior affects you in a negative way.  And that's what I find so perplexing about this... no one can rationally explain how just being a member of this Progeny group affects them so negatively.

...Dres

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

Did you even read what i wrote?

What I am saying is if a sim/parcel owner didnt want a paticular group on his/her land, that he should have the ability to ban them, in the same way that they already can (if they know them to be progeny) that is why a live database of members would be useful, it would be something that i for one would use on a regular basis to update my ban lists!

You must have never heard of Redzone, then... because what you're describing is exactly how Redzone got started and what led to them eventually getting kicked out of SL.

...Dres

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then it is very clear what he seeks is to make a lot of noise to get the system to be expelled. That hidden agenda behind? Economic reasons ?. You never know, but then, it is best, ignore it, and speak what you want

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

Did you even read what i wrote?

What I am saying is if a sim/parcel owner didnt want a paticular group on his/her land, that he should have the ability to ban them, in the same way that they already can (if they know them to be progeny) that is why a live database of members would be useful, it would be something that i for one would use on a regular basis to update my ban lists!

You must have never heard of Redzone, then... because what you're describing is exactly how Redzone got started and what led to them eventually getting kicked out of SL.

...Dres

To my mind, his proposed blacklist would be caught by the same alteration to the Community Standards' section #4, Disclosure, that was brought in to block Redzone -- don't share information about people without their permission  that's not on their profiles.   

If someone's a member of a particular group and he has, for whatever reason, decided to use the option to hide that group on his profile, I don't see how published a list "outing" members of that group can be in compliance with Community Standards and the Terms of Service.

 

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

Like I have repeatedly asked, give us the chance to opt out if we do not wish to be involved with Progeny, It is really that simple and I will shut up about it!

And please do not just tell me to ignore it, that really does not work for me.

You have the chance to opt out... it's called not paying attention to it.  If you can't bring yourself to simply ignore it, then that's a problem with you and not the way in which someone else chooses to roleplay.  If, as it seems, you simply can't live without the bit of drama which this brings to your existence, then, you've only yourself to blame for any discomfort it may cause you.

...Dres

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Perrie Juran wrote:

Let them fight amongst themselves.

The more time they spend doing that the less time they have to annoy us Mortals.

I just find it amusing to see people work themselves into a frenzy about nothing.  But, not unlike Wasted's crusade against children gambling in SL, it eventually gets old.

...Dres

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Neuntoter Davidov wrote:

then it is very clear what he seeks is to make a lot of noise to get the system to be expelled. That hidden agenda behind? Economic reasons ?. You never know, but then, it is best, ignore it, and speak what you want

I don't believe it's that involved.  I suspect Snowgoose is nothing more than a control freak who can't deal with people thinking things about him that he can't control... otherwise, he'd be able to just ignore them and move on to more productive activities.

...Dres

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

I think, for him, it's the principle of the thing and, from what I've read, he's either been victimized or has an ax to grind with this Raven Claw group within The Progeny system. It could be considered the same as the Native American practice of counting coup. however with that, you knew you were involved.

My dislike is because of the overly secretive nature and it obviously not being used as an RP tool. Their use plays into the first person shooter mentality where everyone around is just fodder for their enjoyment rather than a person to interact with. A vampire, in RP, will attack 2 ways...a swift silent attack that leaves the person weak or a seduction. Either one, the person will know something happened. At least Bloodlines, you get asked.

I don't like the idea of the game, either, but since neither I nor anyone else has any way of knowing if someone sitting there quietly in one of the clubs on our sims is chatting with his friends in IMs, or quietly listening to the music, or fantasising to himself that he's a vampire and biting everybody, I don't see that it matters much to our staff which of those things he's doing.    

I assume people are innocent until proven guilty and, so long as someone is sitting quietly and not annoying people, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he's enjoying the music.    If he's there permanently, I might start to worry he's simply parked his avatar there, which we discourage, so I'll try to IM him and probably eject him if I don't get a response.   But otherwise, why should I assume he's pretending to be a particularly secretive vampire rather than just leave him in peace?

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

Let them fight amongst themselves.

The more time they spend doing that the less time they have to annoy us Mortals.

I just find it amusing to see people work themselves into a frenzy about nothing.  But, not unlike Wasted's crusade against children gambling in SL, it eventually gets old.

...Dres

I usually don't even bother reading Vampire threads any more.  Usually are just a waste of pixels. But I did look at this one. 

The moment I saw, 'let's publish a ban list,' I knew where this was going.  That's the kind of thing "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" is written for.

Oh well, no lost sleep for me.

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SOD the MASQUEADE im gonna let it knows whos to be avoided so that lil cheep trick goes right out the window and so Mr Gravy`s idea will fail.

 

YOU WANNA BE PROGENTY? FIND BUT LEAVE THOSE NOT IN IT OUT OF IT PLAIN AND BLOODY SIMPLE, THERES ENOUGHT MEMBERS (I GOT THE LIST) ..PLAY WITH EACH OTHER..

AND ANOTHER THING THE GRAVY DUDE HAS DECLAIRED A FREEBIE GALEXY SIM AS "BADLANDS" ANYBODY KNOW WTF, THAT MEANS?

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WE ALL HAVE A RIGHT TO CONTROL WHAT WE AS INDIVIDUALS ARE INVOLED IN, THE PROGENY SYSTEM IS NOT GIVING US THAT OPTION.

OR ARE YOU TOO THICK IN THE HEAD TO SEE THAT, Dreden???

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

and I sir, think you are an idiot, but I would never say that in public.......oopps, I just did didn't I? lol

I may be an idiot, but at least I'm smart enough not to give the power to cause myself unnecessary stress to a group of people who have absolutely no power to do so otherwise... and that includes both you and your barely literate, angel friend.

...Dres

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I quote:

Warning.....A new vampire system has been in testing for just over a year now, that many have no clue it’s going on. The Progeny creators have created a system where, (unlike Bloodlines) they can bite people without them knowing about it. In the latest days, this has caused problems to both players of this system and to those unaware that they have been victims.  There is NO way other than you being killed to opt out of the playing of the game at this time.

There is alot more I could use to say what I want to say...but this is enough right here. This topic, and any further discussion, is moronic on the face of it.

* The "Bite" that a Progeny Vampire gives, isn't a bite. it is the virtual click of a buitton on their viewer screen.

* The SL account being affected belongs to the SL member.

* The viewer being used is software on their computer at home.

* The Progeny HUD belongs in part to that SL member, and in part to Progeny.

* The "Blood" being drained doesn't exist...it is make believe...much like your avatar is. It doesn't exist. It is comprised of little virtual numbers clicking away on the virtual Progeny HUD beuing used by the SL member.

* As we have already established who the HUD belongs to, we can presume that the numbers clicking away within that HUD belong to the same person(s).

So NOTHING is being taken from your avatar.

Your last statment quoted above is the most ridiculous of all...and given that you actually had the gall to compare this to rape, that is saying alot: " There is NO way other than you being killed to opt out of the playing of the game at this time."

We have established that neither your account, nor your avatar, nor any item in the inventory of your avatar is being taken, nor affected in any way.

So...you are right about one thing; you can't opt out from playing...because you...aren't... playing.

I repeat...this topic, the griping inherent in it, and all the justification for said griping, is moronic.

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It is strange, how, despite being an active member of Progeny and therefore subject to the rules of the "masquerade" that you take the time to reply to these threads.

Won't "The Sauce" be a little upset?  

However, your input is welcomed as I think it shows the mentality of the games members very well.

So us Avatars are to you, nothing at all, not people worth interacting with, just an object for you to use for your own advantage? Well, I am glad we are so obliging to you and your game, lol, but that is slowly changing. The more people that become aware of you and your ways, the harder it will be for you to feed, so I am sure it will make your SL so much more interesting, don't you agree?

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You're delusional, there is never going to be enough people so hyper-emotionally concerned about the goings on of Progeny players to effect their rollplay in any pervasive way.

...Dres

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Well it may be true that I am delusional in that sense, However, it is not going to stop me bringing Progeny to peoples attention at every opportunity i get, both inworld and out. Call it what you will, but I will not be bullied into ignoring such things just because you "players" do not like what I say. Give me a real way to opt out of you pathetic system and as I have said before, I will leave you all alone, until that happens, I will not give you an easy meal and I hope others will do the same, reducing you to the Noob feeding grounds that you are truly at home at! 

And, as Lachiel (The Sauce) has said on this very forum, it creates publicity for his game, an unfortunate side effect but one I am sure he likes, so as this thread continues into yet another day, please keep the comments on my mental state coming.......

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