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Martin Emerald

Progeny Vampire System

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At first sight, that clause from the ToS seems to me to forbid creating or using code to grief people, spy on them, spread computer viruses and so on, and generally to forbid making a nuisance of oneself.

It's not immediately obvious to me how this Progeny vampire system is caught by it.  But maybe LL will take a different view if you complain to them about it.

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allinabox wrote:

Being Attacked and "fed" on by one of not more of the users of your system without my knowing or agreement, this would appear to be againts Part 6.2 (iii)of the TOS copies and paisted below.

6.2 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that may be harmful, impede other users' functionality, invade other users' privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or network.

You agree to respect both the integrity of the Service and the privacy of other users. You will not:

(iii) Engage in malicious or disruptive conduct that impedes or interferes with other users' normal use of or enjoyment of the Service

 so Mr "im all that" inventor pick the bones out of that one

I remember the time when there was the big uproar against Bloodlines.  The major contention seemed to be people objecting to being spammed with bite requests.  I found it rather silly that, when given the option to wear a garlic necklace and be done with bite requests, some of these very same people cried out against the fact that doing so would put their name on a list in a system with which they wanted nothing to do and something about how they shouldn't be forced to do anything to be left alone. 

The second part has a bit of merit, but honestly, there are all kinds of things in life that you shouldn't have to do, but doing so is nevertheless advantageous enough to make it worth doing anyway.  What I've never understood is what actual harm it does to them to have their avatar name listed as not wanting to participate.  I mean, it's not unlike notifying a company that you no longer wish to receive its promotional emails.  No, you shouldn't have to send that request, but once you do, who cares if they have your email address on file as someone who's not interested?

By the same token, and perhaps even more confounding, is the question of what actual harm it does to people to have their avatar name used in a system of which they're completely unaware and will most probably remain so into eternity.  This isn't Ebola, where you could be unaware you've contracted it, yet have gravely negative consequences down the road.  In this instance, there are no negative consequences... ever.

And privacy doesn't really come into play either, simply because avatar names (and keys) are public knowledge, since they can be seen and collected by anyone standing next to an avatar inworld.  This wouldn't be unlike a company having your email address on their list, yet never actually using it to send you spam or even interact with you in any way.  There's simply no damages for which one could conceivably request reparation.

As such, I believe your assertion, that the way this system works breeches the TOS, is entirely inaccurate and, most probably, based on emotional sensibilities, more so than it is on reality.

What I fail most at understanding is why one would choose to worry about something as inconsequential as this.

...Dres

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the top and bottom is sl users not in that game are being involved against our wish,,, ITS OUR SL TOO AND WE HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY WHAT HAPPENS TO US!!!!!!

look at it this way.. if for expample you dont do say BDSM, would you go to a sim/club where such things took place?  

NO you wouldnt ... So why should we be part of a game that can and does get everywhere, just because the go aweful thing allows it by its programing and gives no players no option to refuse?

im sure there are things you dont like and aviod, so in the same way we not involed in progeny dont want involving but have no choice.

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So far, not you nor anyone else, has provided a logically plausible explanation as to how the way Progeny vampires behave causes you or anyone else any harm whatsoever.  They don't harass people; they don't invade people's privacy; they don't effect anyone's SL in any way, shape or form, from what I can see.

If some stranger wants to involve me in their BDSM fantasy without telling me about it, I fail to see why I should care in the slightest.  As long as I'm not actually involved, they can use my name or whatever image of me they've got in their head to their heart's content.  Likewise, when a pretend vampire pretends to attack the pretend you, nothing actually happens to you or even the pretend you... it's nothing more than a fantasy in their minds.

Who am I, you or anyone else, to dictate to some stranger how, where and about whom they can fantasize?  Especially when their fantasy has absolutely no power to cause me nor anyone else any harm.  Such things are really no more my business than they are yours.

I'm honestly perplexed that anyone would find themselves so bereft of things which have the potential to cause them actual harm, that they would feel it necessary to find something as ridiculously nonsensical as this over which to distress themselves.

...Dres

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ok get this this one.

 

sim on the main state NO VAMPIRE ATTACKS, hence this lost are going around breaking other sim rules, and so proving they have put themselves and their activities above the wishes of sim owners who pay tires.

 

that one cant be denied, they think no rules what so ever apply to them

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mmm good point about sim owners and rules.

surpised thats not been flagged up before, now that is something Linden Labs should be told about if sims say no vampire attackes and there happening, which they must be due to the greater part of the SL population are not going to the progeny sim

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Speaking as a manager of a large group of sims that has a very low tolerance for unsolicited vampire bites, I have to say I don't really see what the problem is here.

I mean, we'll happily ban vampires  for asking people if they want to be bitten, because we don't like people making a nuisance of themselves by trying to involve others in their role-play without being asked.   But since neither our visitors nor our security are ever going to be aware, as far as I can tell, that someone standing around is playing this Progeny game and not simply standing there in IMs with a friend, my personal view is that I don't see either what the nuisance is to our visitors or what we can do about it.

It's maybe significant that the problem of how best to discourage unsolicited Bloodlines bites is frequently discussed at our staff meetings, while I don't think I've ever heard Progeny mentioned at one.   If they were to go around telling people, "Nyah!  I'm a vampire and I've just bitten you and you didn't notice," we'd boot them out and ban them, but since they keep quiet about it (assuming, that is, they've visited our sims), I don't see that there's a problem, let alone a remedy.

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allinabox wrote:

ok get this this one.

 

sim on the main state NO VAMPIRE ATTACKS, hence this lost are going around breaking other sim rules, and so proving they have put themselves and their activities above the wishes of sim owners who pay tires.

 

that one cant be denied, they think no rules what so ever apply to them

Sim owners have always had the right to eject and ban people from their sims for no good reason whatsoever.  I fail to see how this adds any validity to your previous, untenable arguments.

...Dres

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blind to the fact we are NOT all blood angels and have this need to be fed on without our concent and so being involoved in some RP we did not sign up for

tho your a blood angel that bites so you wouldnt know being you dont even know your own role

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I totally agree with that.   In case some don't know it, I run across dozens of people every day that have been bitten by a bloodlines player and they swear they have not been bitten.  A request was sent, they accepted it.   Don't try to make a big deal out of the same thing happening in Progeny.  The bite request was not annoying enough for a bloodlines bite and the same can be said for being bitten in Progeny.   Stupid people get bitten every day, but people who unfairly send random bite requests.  SecondLife is full of idiots on both sides.  Biter and bitten.    Grow the f**k up won't you?

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You don't need permission to scan someone.  You don't need permission to bite someone.  You DO need permission to animate someone during a bite, so they didn't include that.   The first two are not against TOS, nor are they the same actions as raping someone (and a lot of people in SL love being raped) so let the game mature and see how it pans out.   There is a code of ethics in Progeny though.  Vampires don't attack and bite other vampires.  Such action is grounds for a clan war, and from what I see here the people involved in Progeny are usually in both systems [bloodlines and Progeny].   The large clans do not like their members being attacked and will retalliate for such behavior.   Be "adult" about your role play or suffer consequences.

Also, having posted the blog here for you to read does not give anyone the right to shoot down his comments.   He is merely informing everyone that... if I find you and you're Quick and Healthy then I will bite you... without asking.   In ROLE PLAY as in the movies and television shows, vampires don't ask if they can bite now.. do they?

An opt-out solution such as garlic would be acceptable.   

Enjoy your SL while I such your blood anonymously and without you knowing.

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well if "There is a code of ethics in Progeny though.  Vampires don't attack and bite other vampires." is true how come im Pale and have been muched on?

also why i have seen progeny Members feeding on AFK Vampires and Lycans, then when asked they laugh reply PSSSSS and Brup?

 what part of that is Ethical

 

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mmm lets see then , i seem to remember they keep stuff hush hush so its a bit shady so heres a sweet chat with a whistle blower. lets  get the whole story out...

Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): btw, someone you know has been feeding off you in another vampire system (not me, i dont feed on family), its one they can without your knowledge or consent (tottaly different than BL)
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve) giggles
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): its an exclusive RP system, invite only, its a process to even join my family and get a hud, but it allows us to feed off "humans' (anyone outside our system) withiout their knowledge
Angel RanDom (RevengingAngel1): what other vamp system . you mean progeny
Angel RanDom (RevengingAngel1): so spill the beans whos been feeding off me
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): no way to know who did it
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): and yes, progeny
Angel RanDom (RevengingAngel1): but im not human
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): thats the RP i do mostly
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): you are in that system
Angel RanDom (RevengingAngel1): how i never joined and dont have the hud or anything thats progeny
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): "Angel RanDom is a Quick and looks Pale"
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): you only have a hud if you are a vampire in Progeny
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): all others outside it are "Quicks" ...our term for human
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): there is no garlic necklace, no amulet
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): there are many degress of "Quick"
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): healthy of course is full, no blood loss
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): then its Flushed, Pale, Clammy, Sickly, Near Death & Shade (Shade is dead human)
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): however, you will recover naturally over time...there is no cider
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): Dad is a shade, he was killed long ago
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): but there is no protection..so being a shade for him is 'safe' lol
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): thre are no bite records like in bloodlines
Angel RanDom (RevengingAngel1): :) how much is the hud
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): tho, i'll say, from the time i met ya i'vee been considering if you might make a good Progeny vampire
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): thats the thing, the hud is free, you just have to be accepted
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): there is a 3 week period of training, and getting to know the family and such, at end of that you choose if you wish to stay and be embraced, but the family also chooses to accept you or not
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): unlike bloodlines, where you buy a hud and become a vampire any time you like, there is no human side, you get gift of blood when accepted, in a ceremony, and the hud is sent to you automatcally at that time
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): if i were to bring you in, i costs me 3 potency points and 4 liters of blood (i have two progeny now, cost in potency goes up each time)
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): its not learning the hud thats the big issue ;) 3 weeks is required of everyone, you cant change liege like in bloodlines, its not that simple, so families vet new vampires fully
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): not really, i get a potency point every month Im 'undead'...you earn them with age
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): and blood..well, easy as finding an away human who stands still lol
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): haha yes, i could feed now if i chose, but im full and i'd only waste it ;)
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): you have to be less than 2 meters from prey, AND facing them
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): and unlike bloodlines where you stop biting when you are full, if you get full, you just spill the rest
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): we are supposed to never kill a human, as they do regenerate blood over time
Adam RanDom-Vardalek-Gravois (Adam4Steve): i lose 1/2 liter per day, a lil less...i feed once a day to stay full, if i feed on a healthy human, they end up flushed only, and refill in a matter of days naturally

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Hows this for saying one thing and doing something else???

 

We are polite and well mannered. Our vampires and lycans do not feed from unwilling victims. (form the Ravens claw website... a clan thats in Progeny )

So lets see they dont feed from unwilling vitctimes!! MMM odd i thought thats what you do being Progeny or is that yet another lie or you lot trying to act like you care????

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THIS IS AN INSULT. LINDEN LABS MUST NOT ALLOW THIS. CLANS FOLLOW THERE RULES WHY NOT THEM?

THEY CAN BITE WHOM EVER THEY WANT AT RANDOM THEY TAKE THE AVIS FREEDOM THEY JUSTIFY AND

RATIONALIZE THERE EXCUSE TO DO IT THEY DONT CARE. IF LINDEN LABS ALLOWES THEM TO DO THIS.

MIGHT AS WELL ALLOW ANY ONE TO HACK ANY ONE OR ME HAVE A HUD THAT CAN SEE A PERSONS IP

AND ANY ONE COULD CAN YOU OUT OF SL. THEY MIGHT AS WELL ALLOW THAT TO.

THERE RULES IN BLOOD LINES FOR A REASON.

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you are quite innocent, if what you seek is harming Progeny (if not for the benefit of others), all you get is to create more interest in him

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How on earth is it taking my freedom if one of these Progeny characters bites me during his role play and I'm not even aware of it?

What am I not free to do that I was free to do before he bit me?   Seems to me that, as far as people who don't play this game are concerned, it might as well not exist at all.

Tell me how I can detect when some of these Progeny people are active on a sim I manage, or the sort of complaints from visitors that might alert me to the fact these Progeny vampires are biting people, and I'll take steps to ban them from all the sims I help manage (a region of about 30 busy sims).    

But if there's no way of detecting them, or of inferring their presence because they're causing some sort of mischief, I don't see what the problem is.

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A VERY GOOD POINT, and one of the many reasons I left a clan with so many double standards as Ravens Claw have......It is a shame that more do not wake up and smell the coffee in RC.

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