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Martin Emerald

Progeny Vampire System

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

What we, or anyone, for that matter, put our "life's blood" into is not the issue here, or rather it shouldn't be. How anyone spends their time campaigning for or against something should not be your concern.

But from reading some of your and the other "contributors" posts to other forums I have got a good idea of what you want. The word Troll has been used but I will not use that, instead I will let people look at profiles and view your other comments to make their own minds up about how "helpful" you are on any of these forums.

Again I will state simply that the purpose of my comments here are to raise awareness of a system that I personally do not agree with in either its ethics and gameplay or its continued beta status. 

Oh, but I post very specifically for among other reasons so that other people can make up their own minds. 

But if that's the definition of a Troll that is a new one on me.

People reading my posts will see that I hold certain opinions on several topics.  So what?  They will also see me time and again helping people.  I know my own record here.

 

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CleoSertorii wrote:

 you do actually bother reading what ive posted? I swear sometimes posting in here is like talking to a rock. Do i really need to explain...again...that my issue isn't specifically with the bites themselves? I also think you are making a HUGE assumption about how much of my time i am investing in this. "Life's blood"...really? You act like my entire SL is based around trying to solve the progeny problem. You don't know me, and you have no idea what  i do with my time. How about you actually ask before making assumptions? i will say one thing.;..judging from your 10,000+ post count, i spend FAR less time worrying about progeny, than you spend in here posting in threads.

 

Just sayin'
:)

We see clearly what you are saying about Progeny.

What we disagree about is whether or not it's a problem.

But I do see a bigger problem with someone who would not only engage in potentially felonious activity and not only that, who would solicit others to join them in that activity.  Kind of a big difference there, don't you think?

 

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

Trolling myself? hmmmm, a strange thing to say, but I can see from your 700+ posts on various topics that you yourself enjoy the sound of your own words!

However, leaving that aside, you seem to have a problem that I am still commenting here and getting views to this thread. Is that a problem for you?

It was and still is my intention to continue to raise peoples awareness of the Progeny system, if that is boring for you then I am sorry, but it will not stop me posting here, even if it is just to repeat myself yet again.:matte-motes-kiss:

Your behavior here certainly qualifies as trollish to me. A good many of your posts contain ineffective and nonsensical insults. I truly hope irihapti enjoys her own writing. I certainly do. So do others here.

No doubt you've raised awareness of Progeny, perhaps in the same way as the Westboro Baptist Church raised awareness of the Koran...

...and the Westboro Baptist Church.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


 


We see clearly what you are saying about Progeny.

What we disagree about is whether or not it's a problem.

But I do see a bigger problem with someone who would not only engage in potentially felonious activity and not only that, who would solicit others to join them in that activity.  Kind of a big difference there, don't you think?

 

well im getting a little tired of people always going back to the biting thing, and completely ignoring the griefing abuse problem that i have brought up several times. If you have issues with what Snow proposed, then take it up with him...im not involved in that.

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CleoSertorii wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


 


We see clearly what you are saying about Progeny.

What we disagree about is whether or not it's a problem.

But I do see a bigger problem with someone who would not only engage in potentially felonious activity and not only that, who would solicit others to join them in that activity.  Kind of a big difference there, don't you think?

 

well im getting a little tired of people always going back to the biting thing, and completely ignoring the griefing abuse problem that i have brought up several times. If you have issues with what Snow proposed, then take it up with him...im not involved in that.

There are all kinds of people in all kinds of groups who grief.  That is a separate issue from Progeny. 

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CleoSertorii wrote:


irihapeti wrote:


 

but isnt that how vampires actual do see humans. as a food source

has really only been since TV shows like Angel and Twilight that vampires have been given the previous unnatural (unvampirey) ability to empathise with their food

a vampire (the creature of legend) has no empathy. None. nada. Is a creature on the same level as a mosquito. That a person playing a vampire might imagine or wish it otherwise is a bit delusional. You a mosquito dude !!! And your relevance to me is exactly the same. No matter how much you the mosquito might wish/dream it otherwise. Own your reality dude!!

 

 

well that would be just fine
IF they were real vampires
, but this goes far beyond any RP scenario, as i have been trying to explain for quite some time. I don't know how often i keep having to point this out, but i am a person, not a fast food meal.
These people are NOT real vampires
, and some RP can be taken way too far.

Cleo, in another post, you asked Perrie if he reads anything you write. Well, I've got to ask whether you actually read what you write. Your work seems to stem from anger, not rationality. I'm sure you understand that there are no real vampires, never have been, never will be. I presume you meant that the Progeny vampires don't play the fictional vampire role the way you think they should.

The forums are a small SL backwater, so we don't hear about everything that goes on in-world. I don't doubt you've had contentious interactions with Progeny players. When challenged over the secret games they play, people may get their backs up and return fire. But that's more in the nature of people than the games, and it's worth stepping back to understand what roles we play in such circumstances.

We'll never know how the unpleasantness started or escalated, all we see is what's been brought to us in the forum. And that hasn't been pretty. I hope you're able to avoid Progeny unpleasantness in the future, which may require avoiding those who incite and inflame Progeny players.

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believe it or not, but it is possible to be both angry AND rational at the same time, and yes, i know exactly what i write in here. My point was that irihapeti was going on about what vampires would be like if they were real, and i was trying to point out that doesnt matter with the way that many progeny players treat other people. Im not even talking about roleplay because i have yet to see any real evidence that they do ANY roleplay at all outside of their own sims. Everyone keeps excusing these people's behavior because they are suppsedly RP'ing vampires, and im saying that, based on opbservation and my own personal experience with dealing with them, that RP has very little to do with their public activities.

You are totally correct, many people in the forum have no idea what happens inworld short of their own personal experiences, which makes it rather annoying that when someone like me comes in here and raises a concern, that somehow i have no freaking idea what i am talking about, or that i am being irrational, or crazy, or whatever, and i get severely criticized for even having a point of view in the first place. Not everyone is a literature/engish major or can articulate things in a way that everyone can understand. I also get that some of you might be a bit jaded by your extensive time on the forums,l and that you might be forgetting what it is like to be inworld.

For the last time, i didnt "challenge" anyone's secret game when this whole thing started, and get attacked out of retaliation. The first incidents of attacks/threats came simply because i was having a discussion about progeny with a friend in open chat. Is that so difficult for you people to comprehend? It must be because that fact seems to go unnoticed by almost everyone, regardless of how often i have pointed it out.

To be honest, i am really starting to feel more harassed by some of the people posting in this thread even more than the progeny i run into. I have seen this in other forums...conform to the majority opinion, dont act like you have any emotions, dont appear to have a personal opinion about anything at all or risk everyone making assumptions about your thoughts and motives regardless of what you actually say. Yes, i understand that everyone has the right to say whatever they want to, but it isnt fun to have to be on the defensive all of the time, especially with people who arent even vaguely involved with the issue being discussed.

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CleoSertorii wrote:

For the last time, i didnt "challenge" anyone's secret game when this whole thing started, and get attacked out of retaliation. The first incidents of attacks/threats came simply because i was having a discussion about progeny with a friend in open chat. Is that so difficult for you people to comprehend? It must be because that fact seems to go unnoticed by almost everyone, regardless of how often i have pointed it out.

No, it's hasn't gone unnoticed at all.  I, as well as many others, have stated that we felt that those who bothered you in that instance were wrong for doing so.  You seem to have a very selective memory when it suits your agenda.

What you seem unable to comprehend is that using that one instance as justification for all of your future misbehavior where Progeny players are concerned, is what most logically inclined persons would consider to be an irrational over-reaction.

LL has given us all the tools to protect ourselves from such negative interactions... it's called Block.  Further, if it's on your land, they can be ejected and banned... if not, you could always explain what happened to the person who's land it is, who would be the ultimate arbitrator of what goes on there.

LL is under no obligation to protect you from rude people any further than they already have by providing those tools.  And the Progeny system creator has no obligation to protect you from rude people whatsoever.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

it isnt fun to have to be on the defensive all of the time

Then stop.  You alone have the power to resolve this issue for yourself.  Not LL nor Progeny nor the regular posters in this forum are in any position to force you to take responsibility for your own actions and make the necessary changes which will ultimately put your mind at ease.  Only you can decide when you're ready to just get over it and move on with your SLife.  The first step you could take is to stop blaming everyone else for your bad decisions.

...Dres

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RevengingAngel1 wrote:

good point that about mosquito`s you get to swat them.

thats so much the same as we are trying to do . tho before they bite slyly

nobody should need Daddy Linden to cosset their feelings

+

if you wanted could always ask the maker of Progeny if there is a Vampire Hunter HUD. That be quite cool.

specially if like in the Progeny Hunter game once you been nommed then you either dead forever or can go over to the dark side. And if you are a vampire and get staked by a hunter then you (your account) is dead forever in the progeny game. Your vampire character is ash for ever more

would then be a game for keeps this. Is heaps of people give that a go. Dealing death anywhere anytime to them who back themselfs to survive

+

also

if was a scoreboard then some people get pretty famous. Like a vampire or hunter who survive like a 100 or more combats. Combats in which there are no rules. Bite or stake. Thats it. Anywhere anytime. Even if not wearing your Fangs or Hunter HUD. You in the game when you accept them and wear for the 1st time

i would give a to-the-death combat game a go. Where death is final and irrevocable

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


CleoSertorii wrote:

For the last time, i didnt "challenge" anyone's secret game when this whole thing started, and get attacked out of retaliation. The first incidents of attacks/threats came simply because i was having a discussion about progeny with a friend in open chat. Is that so difficult for you people to comprehend? It must be because that fact seems to go unnoticed by almost everyone, regardless of how often i have pointed it out.

No, it's hasn't gone unnoticed at all.  I, as well as many others, have stated that we felt that those who bothered you in that instance were wrong for doing so.  You seem to have a very selective memory when it suits your agenda.

What
you
seem unable to comprehend is that using that one instance as justification for all of your future misbehavior where Progeny players are concerned, is what most logically inclined persons would consider to be an irrational over-reaction.

LL has given us all the tools to protect ourselves from such negative interactions... it's called Block.  Further, if it's on your land, they can be ejected and banned... if not, you could always explain what happened to the person who's land it is, who would be the ultimate arbitrator of what goes on there.

LL is under no obligation to protect you from rude people any further than they already have by providing those tools.  And the Progeny system creator has no obligation to protect you from rude people whatsoever.

 

CleoSertorii wrote:

it isnt fun to have to be on the defensive all of the time

Then stop.  You alone have the power to resolve this issue for yourself.  Not LL nor Progeny nor the regular posters in this forum are in any position to force you to take responsibility for your own actions and make the necessary changes which will ultimately put your mind at ease.  Only you can decide when you're ready to just get over it and move on with your SLife.  The first step you could take is to stop blaming everyone else for
your
bad decisions.

...Dres

Dres,

I'm not sure Cleo has misbehaved. I'd have to go back and read every post (not gonna do it!), but I think RevengingAngel and Snowgoose are the two vigilantes.

I agree that there are rude people all over SL (and the internet) and it's worth growing a thick skin to endure them. There are times I wonder if my suggestion to ignore is the right thing to do, but this isn't one of them.

Cleo,

f a few Progeny folks love keeping their activities secret, the mere mention of them within earshot might be seen as a challenge. Again, I don't think it's a Progeny issue so much as that there are just asshats in SL, and you encountered some of them. If Progeny were the root of this behavior, I think someone else would have mentioned them in the forum over the last several years. We've not heard a peep.

And if some Progeny asshats got you all flustered, I imagine they're happy about it. Don't give them that satisfaction. If they're regulars at a place you like to frequent, as Dres says, you might talk to the venue owner to see if there's something that can be done. If you visit again and are harassed, the owner may take action. If your encounter with them was on their home turf, you're probably never going to see improvement, but then you probably don't want to visit there anyway.

It has never been my intent to harass you, only to suggest there are other ways to handle harassment from others, and that is to ignore them. That also means assigning no value to the machinations of their game play. It's a game, and it's play. I'd have much different advice if there were any real life harassment.

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CleoSertorii wrote:

believe it or not, but it is possible to be both angry AND rational at the same time, and yes, i know exactly what i write in here. My point was that irihapeti was going on about what vampires would be like if they were real, and i was trying to point out that doesnt matter with the way that many progeny players treat other people. Im not even talking about roleplay because i have yet to see any real evidence that they do ANY roleplay at all outside of their own sims. Everyone keeps excusing these people's behavior because they are suppsedly RP'ing vampires, and im saying that, based on opbservation and my own personal experience with dealing with them, that RP has very little to do with their public activities.

You are totally correct, many people in the forum have no idea what happens inworld short of their own personal experiences, which makes it rather annoying that when someone like me comes in here and raises a concern, that somehow i have no freaking idea what i am talking about, or that i am being irrational, or crazy, or whatever, and i get severely criticized for even having a point of view in the first place. Not everyone is a literature/engish major or can articulate things in a way that everyone can understand. I also get that some of you might be a bit jaded by your extensive time on the forums,l and that you might be forgetting what it is like to be inworld.

For the last time, i didnt "challenge" anyone's secret game when this whole thing started, and get attacked out of retaliation. The first incidents of attacks/threats came simply because i was having a discussion about progeny with a friend in open chat. Is that so difficult for you people to comprehend? It must be because that fact seems to go unnoticed by almost everyone, regardless of how often i have pointed it out.

To be honest, i am really starting to feel more harassed by some of the people posting in this thread even more than the progeny i run into. I have seen this in other forums...conform to the majority opinion, dont act like you have any emotions, dont appear to have a personal opinion about anything at all or risk everyone making assumptions about your thoughts and motives regardless of what you actually say. Yes, i understand that everyone has the right to say whatever they want to, but it isnt fun to have to be on the defensive all of the time, especially with people who arent even vaguely involved with the issue being discussed.

I've been in SL for seven years. Though I don't have time log-in much these days, I've easily logged thousands of hours in-world. I've been harassed and threatened. I've had people tell me they've discovered my RL address and will retaliate. I've had perhaps two tense moments in those seven years, but those passed when I reminded myself that I can teleport away, mute/block or log-out, and that Maddy's reputation is built and destroyed by me alone.

To the extent that griefers can ruin the fun for friends of mine, they also ruin it for me. But as my circle of friends (who have grown old here along with me) thicken their skins, I find that it's really very difficult for anyone other than my friends to ruffle my feathers. I've advised those who're suffering harassment to use the tools SL provides, and to ignore those who are energized by any response.

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If talking about a subject and taking positive action to bring Progeny into the public domain is being a "vigilante" then yes I most certainly am one.

The fact that people can make their own minds up over what I say or do is the very thing that makes me so mad about Progeny, it takes away peoples choice.

But I reiterate, yet again, my big problem is with those in the Progeny Vampire system, mainly Ravens Claw, that see Progeny as a way to empower themselves over others. 

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I'm not sure Cleo has misbehaved. I'd have to go back and read every post (not gonna do it!), but I think RevengingAngel and Snowgoose are the two vigilantes.

By misbehavior, I simply mean her going out of her way to publicly call out every Progeny player for whom she obviously, actively searches, thereby creating a situation which will eventually lead to some sort of altercation.  If she'd simply ignore them, there would be no further problems; thus, by not doing so, she's creating more problems for herself rather than alleviating them, as only she has the power to do.

Then, of course, she cries out for LL or Progeny to protect her from a situation which she herself has created and, when anyone here tries to point this out, she either calls them a troll or refers back to that first negative experience to justify her irrational behavior.  All of which makes her look just as ridiculous as Snow and Angel, if not actually as unscrupulous as they.

...Dres

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

If talking about a subject and taking positive action to bring Progeny into the public domain is being a "vigilante" then yes I most certainly am one.

Your ability to characterize hacking into someone else's server as "taking positive action" only goes to show how dangerously deranged you truly are.

...Dres

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

If talking about a subject and taking positive action to bring Progeny into the public domain is being a "vigilante" then yes I most certainly am one.

The fact that people can make their own minds up over what I say or do is the very thing that makes me so mad about Progeny, it takes away peoples choice.

But "calling people out" as you, and others have said, on a sim you neither own, nor have any control over, is making you a public nuisance. It's also far from positive. I'mn not even going to delve into the hacking thing. That's a whole 'nother can of worms. 

As to the bold, it makes no sense. Perhaps you can clarify for me. How are others makung up their own minds about you in any way controlling what you say or do? If you mean adding your name to some obscure list somewhere...you're barking up the wrong tree, because *everywhere* you go on the 'net, you leave a footprint. Your "name", IP add, UUID in sl, etc...is all on some "list" somewhere, and likely without your knowledge. If those other areas don't bother you, why does one particular "list" bother you so much? I'm being sincere in my questions, not an ass, just pointing out another perspective, which I think covers more of the big picture than most of the thread does. I haven't seen anyone else yet answer that particular question, despite the fact that is has been asked numerous times in the thread. I'm trying to figure out what makes one worse, than others, if that makes any sense at all.

For example, if I come across you in world, guess what, I have your UUID, I also have your textures, etc.. on my pc. Why? Because that's how things work in sl. Your info is downloaded to my machine, because I encountered you. For all you know I might have my own little RP going on, wherein I secretly type to others in IM about things I have done. I walk near you, I tell my friend George, in im..."hey, I just kicked that chick, let's run away laughing, and I'll add that to my list...now I've got you beat by ten!". You are none the wiser of my actions, and in fact, likely aren't bothered my my presence, because I don't make a public nuisance of myself. I don't annoy you in local, I don't go walking around people typing out in local, I am simply playing a game, with someone in IM, that happens to involve you, or some other random av at any given time, and no one, but me and George, knows about it. I didn't harm you, even if I add your name to a list on a nc of people I've randomly kicked in the shins. You're still on a list, you still participated in my game, yet...your sl goes on, oblivious to this fact.

Perhaps this is where you, and others, may differ, including me. I see no harm in my game, because it in no way disturbs you, disrupts whatever you might be doing, or, and (for me) more importantly doesn't disturb others around on the sim. Now, if I change that game, and we go around in local, chatting about our nefarious acts, I would expect folks to be miffed. I'm disrupting their sl experience, I am creating a public nuisance of myself and...I'd likely expect to get a good talking to, if not a ban. But, if it's all in "secret"...no harm, no foul, because you have no clue it happened. Let's say I want to put my nc list on a website somewhere...it's still the same concept. Even if you find out about the website, there's little to nothing you can do about it, ebcause frankly, the general public doesn't give a rat's left nut, so long as I'm not disturbing the peace.....and I'm not. Because, again... "lists" exist everywhere, and there's not a darn thing you can do about it, unless I use it to solicit you, then you have a case. But...I don't...and I continue my game, merrily going about, kicking shins. LL doesn't care, neither does the general public, until, or unless, I actually make a nuisance of myself to the point that I am harassing others, breaking LL's TOS, or breaking some sim's rules. Until, or unless, that happens, my game is as innocent as the snow falling outside my door right now. Harming no one, doing no damage to the general landscape of sl, and only psychologically annoying you, because you can't let go of the fact that someone, somewhere, did something fake, that you don't approve of.

 

 

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THIS^^^

A thousand time THIS

I have never understood why the big hoopla about Progeny. At least they don't spam you with bite requests.

I think it would be hilarious if Snow got ARed for Harassment>Defaming individuals or groups.

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point one...

the creator of the P system would never do something that would by its nature take "the power" his system gives its members. ergo he would never make a hud for others to use against progeny vampires.

point two...

Read the chat i had with an Ex-family member who is progeny, getting into it once killed or other wise is not as easy as just turning up and saying i want in.

point three

Read the input by the ex-pogeny member who left for the same reasons we are complaining about. that is a person that KNOWS, PROGENY , UNLIKE you

point four

looking at a few who have "verbally attached" Snow and those of us tht are against this system, it makes me wonder "is your fun gained by collectively hi-jacking threads, trying to troll and in so being just pains in the asses of those who post?"

 

 

 

 

 

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RevengingAngel1 wrote:

looking at a few who have "verbally attached" Snow and those of us tht are against this system, it makes me wonder "is your fun gained by collectively hi-jacking threads, trying to troll and in so being just pains in the asses of those who post?"

 

That right there, is your main problem, ok, my main problem with most of your posts, and some of the others as well. Seeing everyone who disagrees with your viewpoint as attacking, you have decided to verbally fight back to those perceived attacks.

While yes, some replies may have been unkind, but I sure as heck haven't attacked anyone, nor would I. I have asked questions, most of which goes unanswered, and I can make guesses as to why they go unanswered, but they'll still just be guesses.

Stop seeing everyone who doesn't think like you, as attacking you, perhaps shine some clarity on an otherwise, clearly, unclear subject, and maybe, just maybe, people will understand you better.

There are others who have posted in this thread, while they still haven't cleared up the things I am unsure of, they certainly aren't acting all...I don't even know what to call half of your responses. They're offensive, before you even have a need to be DEFENSIVE. That's part of the problem when one is trying to make a point, and stand by their convictions..the line between defensive and offensive, gets blurred.

Maybe there are folks reading this thread who are trying to understand your convictions, your issue with this system as a whole, as well. Maybe, they're not going to speak up, because you'll come out verbally swinging, instead of being rational in your replies. While I may still not agree with others in the thread who also share your opinions, and I may believe they, too, are not perfectly clear on some things, at least their postings don't all come off half-cocked. Some of your replies are the very reason others who may also share your opinion are going to be seen in a negative light too. It's not always what we say, especially on the 'net, but also how we choose to say it. Others may have brought me some clarity on why they're upset about *some* people who use this system, and *some* people who choose to grief. But absolutely none of your posts have. The reactions you have to anyone who does not think like you are the very reason some people just might be calling you crazy, and a looney tune. Of course, that's merely a guess on my part, but, attempting to get any clarity from you personally on the issue is an exercise in futility. While attempting to get clarity from others, whether or not I agree with them, just might prove to be fruitful. I'm fairly certain there are some who are also against progeny who don't want to be lumped in with someone others believe is bat poop crazy, and irrational. But, when ya get stuck in a crowd of crazy, people are bound to think you're crazy too. That's when the general population of the non-crazies in the crowd, need to weed out the crazies, in order for their message to be heard.

TLDR; If you don't want folks to be offensive, stop getting defensive before there is a need to be. In fact, stop being offensive right out of the gate, and no one else will come at you swinging, either. That's how adults converse, even on topics in which they do not see eye to eye.

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:


And if some Progeny asshats got you all flustered, I imagine they're happy about it. Don't give them that satisfaction. If they're regulars at a place you like to frequent, as Dres says, you might talk to the venue owner to see if there's something that can be done. If you visit again and are harassed, the owner may take action. If your encounter with them was on their home turf, you're probably never going to see improvement, but then you probably don't want to visit there anyway.

 

this is where it becomes a problem...the place where i encounter them the most often is a Linden owned public welcome area. There is no sim "owner" per se that i can contact about it. LL takes no action whatsoever on AR's sent in by a single individual, and i have AR'ed the people thta have resorted to physical assaults. The only one left who had even half a chance of making a difference is the progeny leadership. As i have said, they DO have an internal discipline/court system for dealing with abusive players, and those players that break progeny's own rules. If they would only extend that to include non-players, that would be a great thing in my opinion, then at least we would have something to work with.

From my point of view, i have no problems with progeny existing at an RP system. I just have a problem with their lack of protections for non-members, and the way that some of their proceedures/rules actually encourage abuse by some people. If Lachiel would just make a few policy/rules changes, then i think it would help.

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:


Madelaine McMasters wrote:

I'm not sure Cleo has misbehaved. I'd have to go back and read every post (not gonna do it!), but I think RevengingAngel and Snowgoose are the two vigilantes.

By misbehavior, I simply mean her
going out of her way
to publicly call out every Progeny player for whom she
obviously, actively searches
, thereby creating a situation which will eventually lead to some sort of altercation.  If she'd simply ignore them, there would be no further problems; thus, by not doing so, she's creating more problems for herself rather than alleviating them, as only she has the power to do.

Then, of course, she cries out for LL or Progeny to protect her from a situation which she herself has created and, when anyone here tries to point this out, she either calls them a troll or refers back to that first negative experience to justify her irrational behavior.  All of which makes her look just as ridiculous as Snow and Angel, if not actually as unscrupulous as they.

...Dres

Ok, i swore i was going to ignore Dres for the duration of this discussion, but this needs to be adressed, because once again, it is completely false. Please look at the comments that i bolded. NO, Dres, i do not "go out of my way", nor do i "actively search" for progeny. If you would have bothered to read my posts, you would see that NOT ONE TIME have i ever indicated that i actively hunt for these people. I do not travel from sim to sim hoping to find a progeny there so i can start something with them. They come to one of my hangouts...end of story. I also stated clearly that i do not call out a progeny who is simply standing there minding their own business, which rarely ever happens anyway. I call out those who are actively feeding on the day-old new residents who are also at this location, or in more recent developments, those who have been bringing their clan wars into these public newcomer sims, and disrupt everything with their combat. New residents have a right to know what is going on, and just like Snow, my intention is to raise awareness.

And dres, the only reason why i have labeled you as a troll, is not because you have tried to point out what YOU believe is the problem (which by the way, is based on nothing more than a twisted version of what i have said), but rather HOW you go about doing it. When you feel the need to alter what i have said, or add on things that i havent said, or continue to use condescending words to describe me and my behavior, then yes, i believe you to be a troll. Other people in here have managed to disagree with my position, and experess that in a way that isnt trollish, so why cant you? I am guessing that is because you dont want to "play nice", and have a little bit of respect for people that dont see things the way that you do.

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Since LL can't, or don't, police LL-owned welcome areas, I'm not quite sure why you think the owner of Progeny should, either.   Nor am I completely sure what you want him to police.    If I've properly understood how the system works, the pubic at large don't know whether they've been bitten or not, or whether or not someone is a member of progeny, so who's going to complain to him, and about what?

If you're saying he should be responsive to complaints from members of the public who find themselves harassed by Progeny members because they happen to have discussed in public chat how the Progeny system works (not a topic I think I've ever heard discussed in SL, either in chat or in IM, but I lead a sheltered life), then probably he should, and so should LL be responsive to complaints about harassment at welcome hubs in general, but neither of them is, and we have to live with it.  "Welcome Areas" like Ahern are well-known to be snake-pits, and most of us avoid them for that very reason.

In point of fact, I don't blame him for refusing to take action over complaints about events at which he was not present or doesn't have an independent witness.   Neither would most venue-owners, since chat logs are so easily faked (unless it's LL reading them).  

Why not simply avoid places like Ahern?   That's what most of us do.   There's plenty of privately-run hang-outs and and venues, after all, where staff are on hand to deal with griefers.    If you want to meet new residents, there's plenty of places catering for them.   

Maybe I'm being obtuse, but, to my mind, Progeny only seem to be a continuing problem for people who want them to be. If you're having problems with individual Progeny members who've taken against you, that's a bit different (and in that case I'd re-iterate my suggestion about avoiding LL-owned Welcome Hubs), but in general they seem to be a non-issue.

Tl;dr If you don't want to encounter griefers, vampiric or otherwise, avoid LL-owned Welcome Areas.

 

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CleoSertorii wrote:



this is where it becomes a problem...the place where i encounter them the most often is a Linden owned public welcome area. There is no sim "owner" per se that i can contact about it. LL takes no action whatsoever on AR's sent in by a single individual, and i have AR'ed the people thta have resorted to physical assaults.

Sometimes I think the welcome areas are the bane of SL.  There have been more threads in this Forum about them than you can shake a stick at.  Occasionally when someone starts a Thread about one I will go to check it out myself.  They seem to be a real magnet for idiots. (Not calling you an idiot here, just an observation about some of the people who hang out at them). 

Some people have speculated that the only reason LL doesn't close them is so the idiots and griefers and others of that ilk have a place to go.  It keeps them all congregated in one place.

LL would have to man then 24/7/365 to clean them up and to keep them clean.  And that's not going to happen.  And I kind of like it that way because it keeps all of them from spreading out everywhere else.

Personally, unless a person is into helping new people I really don't see why someone would subject themselves to the crap that goes on at them.  Especially knowing they are a magnet for crap.  If I met a new person at one the first thing I'd do is get them out of there and show them some of my favorite spots in SL.  Accentuate the positive.  Sure, I'd let them know not everyone in SL is an Angel.  But that certainly would not be my focus.

As much as I'd like SL to be a Nirvana full of nothing but rainbows, sunshine, unicorns and butterflies I know that is not going to happen.

My seven years in SL have been pretty peaceful because I operate the big three for dealing with idiots: Block, Mute and Ignore.  Really pretty simple to me.

My one other observation on the welcome areas is that if people would stop getting into shooting matches with the idiots they'd be a lot more peaceful.  As long as people feed the trolls at them they are going to keep coming back.

</soapbox>

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