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Martin Emerald

Progeny Vampire System

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


CleoSertorii wrote:

The FS viewer has the ability to scan and locate active Progeny fangs, so why the hell cant someone create a personal Progeny detection HUD that can locate Progeny, do self scans, and possibly even prevent bites from happening. Some scripter out there should be able to manage it. I really think this would be the best overall method to dealing with the problem because it would give those of us who are aware of Progeny the ability to defend ourselves.

How do you detect active Progeny fangs with Firestorm?


TY Innula. I was puzzled by this also but didn't ask.  I'd be curious also.

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Honestly, im not sure how it works, but it does. I rarely use FS as my computer isnt happy with it, but a friend of mine found a way to detect Progeny fangs. In FS, go to "world" > "area search". In "filter" deselect attachment and physical, then type "progeny" in the search. I tested it and it works. It shows any avatar wearing Progeny fangs, and can either be refreshed, or auto-updates when new people rez on the sim.

The downside is that the official LL viewer doesnt have this feature, and i would rather be able to do this as a HUD rather than an open dialog box.

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CleoSertorii wrote:

Honestly, im not sure how it works, but it does. I rarely use FS as my computer isnt happy with it, but a friend of mine found a way to detect Progeny fangs. In FS, go to "world" > "area search". In "filter" deselect attachment and physical, then type "progeny" in the search. I tested it and it works. It shows any avatar wearing Progeny fangs, and can either be refreshed, or auto-updates when new people rez on the sim.

The downside is that the official LL viewer doesnt have this feature, and i would rather be able to do this as a HUD rather than an open dialog box.

Tested and confirmed on worn attachments. 

Learn something new every day.

TY

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Oh, just a little update on why this is a real problem...i was at this sim earlier this evening and three progeny vamps from La Sombra clan show up. I mentioned in local that progeny vamps were in the area and feeding, so people would have the chance to avoid them, and the next thing all three of them attached followers to my avi, and followed me around the sim. I had enough time to AR two of them with screens before i TP'ed out, and reported the last one. Im sure i am dead by now :P but it shows that they are willing to become not just RP'ers, but griefers to protect their little secret.

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CleoSertorii wrote:

Oh, just a little update on why this is a real problem...i was at this sim earlier this evening and three progeny vamps from La Sombra clan show up. I mentioned in local that progeny vamps were in the area and feeding, so people would have the chance to avoid them, and the next thing all three of them attached followers to my avi, and followed me around the sim. I had enough time to AR two of them with screens before i TP'ed out, and reported the last one. Im sure i am dead by now
:P
but it shows that they are willing to become not just RP'ers, but griefers to protect their little secret.

See that kind of griefing is annoying, intrusive, obnoxious, and I can see exactly why it is a problem for folks. I'm an odd duck and would just mute and ignore, leave if necessary(like you), but that doesn't mean my methods are better than any other person's. Nor does it mean that I think people should put up with it. 

That kind of griefing is vastly different than someone simply clicking a button on a hud, "pretending" to bite someone, without ever actually being intrusive on the other person, or without telling them they did it. In other words, on the part of the receiver of the bite, the action never happened. This is the part I don't understand, and why I asked the questions I did, which no one answered, lol. I wasn't being a smartass, or even suggesting people should like what other folks do, in the least. Nor would I ever suggest my opinion on the matter is the "right" one, for lack of better term. Just that I'd like to understand how something people don't know is actually happening, or has happened, something that isn't really griefing, can annoy some of the people who replied here, to the point that, it seems, they want anyone and everyone who even uses this hud to just be banned outright. I support landowner's rights, wholeheartedly, and I support the fact that landowners can ban for whatever reason they want, or no reason at all. I don't support a call to arms that is based off, well, something that doesn't make sense, because the majority of the recipients of these bites-have no friggen clue it even happened, nor would they ever. Hence, why I try to make sense of it.

Your scenario, and others described here, are world's apart, though. Perhaps that better explains my confusion as to why they're being compared, or even remotely considered the same thing. You haven't, not that I have noticed, but other posters did, and I'm surely not the only one slightly amused(sorry but I can't help that some of them come off slightly funny when people refuse to explain), and confused, by the posts in this thread. 

I talk too much too :)

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CleoSertorii wrote:

OK, here is an example....i was talking to a friend about Progeny in local chat in a public sim. I was explaining my concerns about how the system works, and apparently some Progeny players overheard the conversation. Within 5 minutes i recieved a series of threatening IM's telling me to stop talking about Progeny or they would make my SL a living hell. I told them that i had the right to talk about whatever i felt like talking about. After a few more minutes 3 Progeny players rezzed in the sim and began to physically attack my avi with followers an bumpers, and that of the friend i was talking to. I have even been warned off by a member of the Progeny high council...all because i was exposing their "secret".

These people are so worked up about their secret clans and secret methods that they cant stand a non-player even having knowledge of how it all works. True, bites do no physical harm, but when even mentioning them in public brings on griefer attacks, then something is seriously wrong with the mentality of the game.

Also, Dres, something that seems to elude you is this notion of principle. You dont get how worked up people are about this, but yet you yourself are worked up enough about our opinions for you to keep posting about it here. You say we should just ignore them, so why dont you just ignore us? We have just as much right to our opinions and viewpoints as you do. Your opinion is not wrong, and neither is mine. For ME, Progeny is a problem, for YOU, it isnt.

Progeny is a problem for you because you chose to make it so.  While I do not in any way condone the way you were treated, I can't help but feel that, had you just ignored them, they wouldn't have treated you that way in the first place.  If you continually insist on sticking your nose where it doesn't belong, thereby, impeding the role play of a group of people that aren't impeding you in any way, because of nothing more than some sort of irrational vendetta, it's not at all surprising that you'll get some occasional, over-reactionary backlash.

So, in reality, the example which you've provided here is one of a person deliberately trying to instigate an argument, then complaining about the negative reaction they got because of it.  When you can give me an example of my original query, which was what harm it actually causes to have someone pretend to bite a person without their knowledge, then you might have a valid point.  Until then, I'll just have to continue assuming you simply enjoy the drama which you're creating... otherwise, you'd just stop worrying about it and find something else to do with your time.

...Dres

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CleoSertorii wrote:

Honestly, im not sure how it works, but it does. I rarely use FS as my computer isnt happy with it, but a friend of mine found a way to detect Progeny fangs. In FS, go to "world" > "area search". In "filter" deselect attachment and physical, then type "progeny" in the search. I tested it and it works. It shows any avatar wearing Progeny fangs, and can either be refreshed, or auto-updates when new people rez on the sim.

The downside is that the official LL viewer doesnt have this feature, and i would rather be able to do this as a HUD rather than an open dialog box.

Thanks.   Now I understand.   The way you initially described it, I misunderstood and thought that Firestorm had some special feature that detected the fangs rather than simply that they show up with area search.   My fault for not thinking it through.

However, while Firestorm can detect the fangs, LSL can't.   That's because Firestorm area search uses information that the simulator makes available to the viewer but not to LSL scripts.    Another example of this would be the way that any viewer can see what your active group is (so it can display the group and your role)  but all LSL can do is tell you if someone is a member of the same group as the object containing the script is set to.   

So, I'm afraid that if you want to detect people using Progeny fangs, you'll need to use Firestorm (or some other viewer with a similar area search capability).    LSL scripts can't do it without listening in on whatever channel the fangs and huds use, and even if someone did discover the channel, it would be very simple to push out a mandatory update that used a different channel.

 

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well, once again, what we have here is a differing point of view as to what is and is not a problem with the progeny system, and apparently, a little something called free speech. Just because you dont see my point of view, that doesnt make me wrong and you right. Just because im concerned about the principle of something doesnt give anyone the right to attack me for being vocal about it. Just because i have spoken up about it doesnt make me "sticking my nose where it doesnt belong", nor does it give you the right to assume that i enjoy drama. That particular statement of yours comes off as extremely trollish. You keep saying that we should all just ignore them, but for some reason our viewpoint seems to bother you enough for you to keep coming back and commenting. Do my comments affect you personally? if so, then id like to know how. If not, then why dont you just ignore me? Based on the way you reply to people, i can assume that you are the one who enjoys drama.

and for the record, i wasnt DELIBERATELY trying to instigate an argument with anyone...that is an assumption on your part because you have NO idea what my motives were for talking.

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Sorry, IMHO, they aren't RPing. RPing implies interaction. They aren't interacting with those they bite but simply using them as an NPC in their power game. If you want to RP, do it. I, personally, and yes I know it doesn't really affect me, find it disturbing that they think ninjaing and using players like those zombie spawners that you can shoot, offensive. There is already a decline in RP in SL and this system isn't helping.

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Let me address this point by point...


CleoSertorii wrote:

well, once again, what we have here is a differing point of view as to what is and is not a problem with the progeny system

Actually, no... my point of view is that Progeny is not a problem at all, while yours is that it is, even though you haven't actually been able to explain why in any cogent manner.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

and apparently, a little something called free speech.

How would you know what my point of view is concerning free speech?

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

Just because you dont see my point of view, that doesnt make me wrong and you right.

Oh, but, I do see you're point of view... I just think you're being entirely irrational.  Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but, so far, you haven't been able to convinced me otherwise.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

Just because im concerned about the principle of something doesnt give anyone the right to attack me for being vocal about it.

This is true.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

Just because i have spoken up about it doesnt make me "sticking my nose where it doesnt belong"

This is also true.  It's the fact that you're inserting yourself into something that's none of your business and purposely trying to disrupt someone else's roleplay that "makes you 'sticking your nose where it doesnt (sic) belong.'"

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

nor does it give you the right to assume that i enjoy drama.

On the contrary, I, like everyone else, have the right to assume anything I wish.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

That particular statement of yours comes off as extremely trollish.

I simply love the point in a discussion when someone runs out of logical arguments and feels the need to resort to accusing those with whom's opinions they disagree of trollery... it's a sure sign of FAIL.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

You keep saying that we should all just ignore them, but for some reason our viewpoint seems to bother you enough for you to keep coming back and commenting.

Let me take this opportunity to remind you of exactly where you're posting.  It's called a forum and it's main purpose is coming back and commenting.  I would be rather delinquent in my duties as a rampant forumite if I were to discontinue doing just that.  What's your excuse?

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

Do my comments affect you personally?

Well, they certainly don't rile me up into a frenzy.  And that's because I choose not to let them... unlike you choosing to let the mere existence of a group of private roll players personally affect you.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

if so, then id like to know how.

Well, that's simple... because I have to read them in order to construct a reply to them.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

If not, then why dont you just ignore me?

Again, this is a forum.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

Based on the way you reply to people, i can assume that you are the one who enjoys drama.

Wait a minute... are you trying to troll me?... LMAO!  Sorry, deary, that won't work.  You see, your assumption as to my enjoyment of drama would be spot on.  The difference is, I perfectly willing to readily admit to enjoying a bit of a dramatic discussion in this forum.  To what are you willing to admit?

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

and for the record, i wasnt DELIBERATELY trying to instigate an argument with anyone...

I honestly believe that's what you honestly believe.

 


CleoSertorii wrote:

that is an assumption on your part because you have NO idea what my motives were for talking.

You may be right, but it really makes little difference what your motives are, when what you're saying is contingent upon your own irrational paranoia.

...Dres

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Bobbie Faulds wrote:

Sorry, IMHO, they aren't RPing. RPing implies interaction. They aren't interacting with those they bite but simply using them as an NPC in their power game. If you want to RP, do it. I, personally, and yes I know it doesn't really affect me, find it disturbing that they think ninjaing and using players like those zombie spawners that you can shoot, offensive. There is already a decline in RP in SL and this system isn't helping.

Don't be ridiculous, Bobbie... you sound like one of those homophobic idiots who claim that gay marriage will ruin the institution of marriage for everyone else.  If you don't like the way they roll play, don't roll play with them.  If you're concerned about the state of roll play in SL, knocking the way one particular group of roll players choose to roll play is not the most productive way to go about improving it.

...Dres

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ok, dres..then let me make myself perfectly clear here. It is very obvious to me what you are trying to do. I dont have to convince you about anything, and i dont have to explain myself in a way that makes sense to you. Ive seen people like you on many other forums, and from my point of view, you are a forum troll. Yes, i get that this is a discussion forum, but i am already tired of your assumptions, your veiled insults, and what looks to me like a condescending attitude towards people who dont "discuss" to your level of personal standards. You dont know me, you dont know what thoughts i have, and you certainly werent with me when all of these things i have described happened, so i think it is just a little bit presumptuous of you to be judging my actions without having all of the facts.

In any case, i am also very much aware that nothing i say will matter to you in any way, as long as you get your drama. By the way, thanks for letting me in on that little bit of information...it lets me know exactly what sort of person i am dealing with.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


RevengingAngel1 wrote:

barely literate??

get back to your bango playing ( as in the film deleverence )

welcome to your worse nightmare fool

 

i take such personal comments very serious as you will find out

 

stipendium peccati mors est

 applies.   It's "banjo", not "bango".

 

And "Deliverance", not deleverance. And worst, not worse. And seriously, not serious.

Seriously. RevengingAngel: after you get done being Dres's worst nightmare......

Come at me, bro.

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Awww... I was really hoping that my reply to you would incite you to add something more substantive to the discussion.  But, I suppose it's easier to paint people into pretty, little, troll boxes than it is to stand up for an argument as weak as the one you were trying and failing to make.

...Dres

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Dillon Levenque wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:


RevengingAngel1 wrote:

barely literate??

get back to your bango playing ( as in the film deleverence )

welcome to your worse nightmare fool

 

i take such personal comments very serious as you will find out

 

stipendium peccati mors est

 applies.   It's "banjo", not "bango".

 

And "Deliverance", not deleverance. And worst, not worse. And seriously, not serious.

Seriously. RevengingAngel: after you get done being Dres's worst nightmare......

Come at me, bro.

It might take a while, Dillon... I'm still waiting for the nightmare I was promised to come to fruition.

...Dres

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Dresden Ceriano wrote:

It might take a while, Dillon... I'm still waiting for the nightmare I was promised to come to fruition.

...Dres

 Let's have some music while we wait.

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As a banned member of Progeny, Yes I'm banned for life from that game now all  cause I spoke out on their forums against the system and they will kill and ban you instantly. Before being banned. They named Freebie Galaxy as Bad Lands, meaning there were no laws for members of progeny to go there an feed off each other, and others. Even their own HUD doesn't send a bite request to members of Progeny, it just has animations built into it to show that you are biting each other. Freaky? Yes it is, and very disturbing to say the least. But before that, a few SIM owners did go to Lachiel himself and request his dove device. Now what this device does is it will render the users of progeny with a dove on their HUD, meaning it just can't work. He does not give out this device (come to think of it, it disturbs him when he had to give it out to that SIM owner) , matter of fact only other people that had that kind of device were his higher ups, his precious diabolics as he called them. His original Diabolics have been replaced with others. 3 out of the 4 have left progeny cause of this behavior and that of one main from Ravens Claw. There is no role play what so ever with them as they've been called "NPC's" in progeny. Matter of fact they refrequent just about anywhere to feed off others, and then brag and boast about it in their special group chat. They use to hold "Who had the most blood in the blood bank" contests. Quite interesting to say the least to see them boost about fake blood. While at one time I was proud to be apart of Progeny, it was after their 2nd war that I started to see the errors in this system and the state of mind from these players. Plus a few friends were thrown under the bus so to speak because of something, I'm not entirely sure, and don't wanna know in all honesty. While I'm against any system that claims to be one thing, and is something totally different, and this is just my opinion. I feel that like Bloodlines who has the garlic necklace, Progeny should offer something to those that aren't into that type of RP, and or to the SIM owners letting them judge for themselves about using a device to turn off the HUDs, cause sadly Lachiel made it to where the HUD will work in no-script zones. So even if SIM owners turn off Scripts, those annoying HUDs still work clearly. Now mind you though, most of the active progeny members are also in Bloodlines, Hunger, and a few others. So yeah they love to grief others. I have often referred to them as a "Secret Cult" more so then a society because of how they do act out in public. Around other members of Progeny it's freely discussed, but now since their NPC's know all about progeny, it makes them upset that their secret is out and that this game is being discussed by those ex members, and their non playable characters. or as they call them "Blood bags" , or whatever blood name they come up with. Before it's said, I don't have an axe to grind, and I personally don't care about the maker of the game, or his idle threats. We have a right to choose what type of game we all want to play, while yes in the past I was one of those that fed off the NPC's, but I did it with RP with another person, and it was in a private chat channel on a public SIM. I wanted to help change and give progeny a better name,but it doesn't happen because some will not let it happen and if they grab the attention of Lachiel, he'll bend whatever rule he can to make it happen. I just feel as an ex-member of Progeny that it shouldn't be kept so in closet , and that if you don't want to play, have the option to opt out, or if you did play, still have that option to opt out.

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I am still watching the posts here on this forum with interest, although to be honest, certain people really need to grow up and stop trying to put others down for just expressing their freedom of speech.

Personally, I think that I have learned to just take the words of those that try to put down any anti Progeny people with a "pinch of salt"

However, that said, I do feel that the tide is turning,

Yesterday for example, when I showed up at Social Island and confronted a Progeny player about his and his friends purposes for being there, I was told they were having some kind of Battle, lol, so maybe they will eventually destroy themselves?

But in all seriousness, I now take every opportunity to scan for Progeny fangs and attachments in whatever sim i visit, and if i find them, I make damn sure that I talk openly in open chat about it and who is using them......this is how we will have to act if we are to ever change this system, make it as visible as we can to as many as we can.

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infohub_002.jpg

 


Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

I am still watching the posts here on this forum with interest, although to be honest, certain people really need to grow up and stop trying to put others down for just expressing their freedom of speech.

Personally, I think that I have learned to just take the words of those that try to put down any anti Progeny people with a "pinch of salt"

However, that said, I do feel that the tide is turning,

Yesterday for example, when I showed up at Social Island and confronted a Progeny player about his and his friends purposes for being there, I was told they were having some kind of Battle, lol, so maybe they will eventually destroy themselves?

But in all seriousness, I now take every opportunity to scan for Progeny fangs and attachments in whatever sim i visit, and if i find them, I make damn sure that I talk openly in open chat about it and who is using them......this is how we will have to act if we are to ever change this system, make it as visible as we can to as many as we can.

(my bolding)

I guess if you want to spend your Second Life like this guy pictured above it is your privilege.  Personally I don't get it.  There is so much to do and enjoy in SL without going on a crusade.  If I were to choose something to crusade against I can think of a lot worse things in SL.  But me, I don't really crusade against things.  Rather there are things that I do crusade for.

I remember quite well how obnoxious Bloodlines, or I should say, the people using it were when I started.  It was a blight on SL.   What's going on with Progeny is spit in the wind compared to what went on with Bloodlines.  There were multiple issues we could articulate.  Some of us even suspect LL stepped in and told the Founder to clean it up:  Hence the Garlic Necklace and the fact their system does not allow them to bite an Ava under three weeks old.

Back when Bloodlines was the huge problem it was I did object to being in their Data Base.  I was an unsuspecting victim.  But that objection was based on the bigger picture of how obnoxious they were.  Today I couldn't care one bit if I've been clicked on.  As far as I'm concerned the real joke is on them.  Because you see, I don't give one single flying f*ck.  Which leaves their gloating meaningless.

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My personal views on the vampire game Progeny........
Well, it has caused me much heartache, made me angry and sad that such a game can go un challenged in world. We are a family, or so i like to think, the principles of family should come before anything else in my book. This game causes division and ill feeling therefore cannot be good for family can it?
I still think as I have said all along that i feel the whole basis of Progeny is wrong, it IS an abuse of other people's rights and those that want no part of it have no choice but to be prey. If you look into it more, sure, there does seem to be a core element of players that act with honour, but they are over shadowed by the few that play it their way and there seems little policing of the system to prevent it.
I would never for an instant try to push my will over another persons, therefore I expect to have the same courtesy shown to me. Is that not fair?
Also one's right to just say no to something is a basic human right, Progeny walks all over that right, all because it simply does not allow people to just say NO!
I have no axe to grind with people that wish to play this game, all I ask is they respect my wishes to be no part of it.....and that they have the same respect for other members of my family and friends.
Rant over
Snowgoose Yootz

 

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Snowgoose Yootz wrote:

My personal views on the vampire game Progeny........

Well, it has caused me much heartache, made me angry and sad that such a game can go un challenged in world. We are a family, or so i like to think, the principles of family should come before anything else in my book. This game causes division and ill feeling therefore cannot be good for family can it?

I still think as I have said all along that i feel the whole basis of Progeny is wrong, it IS an abuse of other people's rights and those that want no part of it have no choice but to be prey. If you look into it more, sure, there does seem to be a core element of players that act with honour, but they are over shadowed by the few that play it their way and there seems little policing of the system to prevent it.

I would never for an instant try to push my will over another persons, therefore I expect to have the same courtesy shown to me. Is that not fair?

Also one's right to just say no to something is a basic human right, Progeny walks all over that right, all because it simply does not allow people to just say NO!

I have no axe to grind with people that wish to play this game, all I ask is they respect my wishes to be no part of it.....and that they have the same respect for other members of my family and friends.

Rant over

Snowgoose Yootz

 

I don't understand the heartache outside of your being griefed for publicising them.

But to me your position seems so extreme, your 'human right to say no' in this situation.

It's like people who complain about others looking at (camming) their Avas.

Your claim to this 'right' in this situation sounds one step short of saying I can't look at you without your permission.  This, at least to me, is how you are coming across.

I still stand by what I said, there are just too many things to enjoy here and other more important issues so that from my POV you are just short changing your self.

 

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Think what you like, right now i am past caring what people think of my of what I want. It just goes to show that the world is full of oppressive people that think that they can do whatever the hell they like with no consequences. Well this Avi is making a stand, like it or not. and I will be actively spreading the word about Progeny whenever and wherever i can, If that makes me foolish in your eyes then so be it, I will not loose sleep over it!

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I think you may be misunderstanding things a bit. We arent proposing that we literally waste our time sitting in a sim with a sign warning the world about Progeny vampires. I am just as opposed to the progeny system as it exists at the moment, but i also spend my time in SL doing what ive always enjoyed doing...boating, swimming, shopping, clubbing, and socializing. Some of us are capable of multitasking :) so its not a big trouble to talk about the problems with progeny when the subject comes up, and still be able to enjoy our SL.

You do make an interesting point about the difference between Progeny and BL. Obviously, i wasnt around when BL was a big deal, but from what i understand, it has calmed down quite a bit, and i suspect that might have been because of people like me who were willing to speak out. You believe that changes might have been made to BL to make the system better for non players.. How did that happen? Why would LL possibly step in and insist on changes? Im guessing because other people made enough noise about it and brought attention to the problem. We are trying to do the same thing here. I know for a fact that i have already attracted the attention of at least one Progeny leader, so they know that we know. It isnt much, but it is a first step.

One thing that many people seem to forget is that SL isnt a game. It is a virtual world with real people behind the avis. We have feelings, opinions, convictions, and beliefs. The fact that our avis and world are digital doesnt invalidate those things.

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